The testimony of Jimmy Turner was taken at 9:45 a.m., on March 25,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, this is the deposition of Mr. James Turner.
Mr. TURNER. Jimmy Turner.
Mr. HUBERT. Jimmy Turner. Fort Worth, Tex. Mr. Turner, my name is
Leon D. Hubert, I am a member of the advisory staff of the General
Counsel of the President’s Commission on the Assassination of President
Kennedy. Under the provisions of the President’s Executive Order No.
11130, dated November 29, 1963, the Joint Resolution of Congress
No. 137 and rules of civil procedure adopted by the Commission in
conference with the Executive order and the joint resolution, I have
been authorized to take a sworn deposition from you, Mr. Turner.
I state to you that the general nature of the Commission’s inquiry
is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the
assassination of President Kennedy and to the subsequent violent death
of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular to you, Mr. Turner, the nature of
the inquiry today is to determine what perhaps you know about the death
of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general
inquiry. Now, I think you have appeared here today as the result of the
receipt of a letter from Mr. Rankin.
Mr. TURNER. That’s right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you get that letter?
Mr. TURNER. It arrived last Monday, which was the 22d of March.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, under the rules of the Commission, you are entitled to
a 3-day notice prior to the taking of this deposition. That probably
dates from the day the letter was sent, which would be over 3 days, but
just to be certain, the rules also provide that you can waive the 3
days on this if you want to. Are you willing to testify now, or do you
want to wait until the 3 days have passed?
Mr. TURNER. Well, I might as well, now that I am here.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you do waive the 3-day notice?
Mr. TURNER. I certainly do.
Mr. HUBERT. Then will you stand and raise your right hand and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. TURNER. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you please state your name?
Mr. TURNER. Jimmy Turner.
Mr. HUBERT. The name “Jimmy,” is your correct name? It is not “James”?
Mr. TURNER. That’s right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you reside?
Mr. TURNER. 3637 Norma Street in Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your age, please?
Mr. TURNER. I am 38, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your employment?
Mr. TURNER. I am TV director at WBAP-TV at Fort Worth.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so employed?
Mr. TURNER. Twelve and a half years.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you assigned to the visit of the President to Dallas,
and to the subsequent events?
Mr. TURNER. I was assigned after the assassination to NBC. I arrived
over here approximately 1:15 the day of the assassination, which was
November 22, and I remained over here until--through the following
Wednesday.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you have access during that period to the jail
building on Harwood, between Commerce and Main Street?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was a particular sort of pass or identification given to
you?
Mr. TURNER. No; it was not a pass given to us. No identification was
ever required. The identification I used was a press card from a
Sheraton Hotel, and I was never checked about the authenticity of it or
anything.
Mr. HUBERT. But you were asked, in any case, to show that press pass
that you have just described?
Mr. TURNER. Yes; we were. We were wearing it on our coat.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you describe that again?
Mr. TURNER. It was a press pass that the Sheraton Dallas Hotel had when
they opened the new hotel here in Dallas. It had “Press” on it, the
seal of the Sheraton Hotel and my name after it. It was very vague but
the only thing we had at the time.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you ever accosted by anyone with respect to checking
as to whether you----
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were connected with news media?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You felt that simply wearing this on your coat with the
word, “Press,” was sufficient to get around as you wanted to?
Mr. TURNER. Correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see them checking any other people?
Mr. TURNER. To my knowledge, up until the following morning after the
shooting of Oswald, there was no checking of passes that we ran into.
Now, there was a checking after the shooting when we left the building,
but I left the building with the pass, and came back in the building
with the pass.
Mr. HUBERT. I am sure that during the 48 hours, approximately, between
the President’s death and the shooting of Oswald, that you must have
had occasion to go in and out of that building a number of times.
Mr. TURNER. I used it at Parkland Hospital. I used it at the city hall
also without being stopped, or asked what kind of pass it was.
Mr. HUBERT. Prior to November 24, did you know that man now known as
Jack Ruby?
Mr. TURNER. No; I didn’t, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You had never seen him before?
Mr. TURNER. I had never seen him.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you ever heard of him?
Mr. TURNER. I had never heard of him.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, of course, since November 24, you have heard of Jack
Ruby. You have seen his picture, I take it?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen him in person?
Mr. TURNER. Yes, sir; I saw him at the trial. At various times when
they took him in the courtroom, except the morning of the shooting I
saw him.
Mr. HUBERT. You saw him then, too? What I wanted to get at was whether
you ever saw the man now known as Jack Ruby, in the police building
prior to the time that you saw him immediately before the shooting?
Mr. TURNER. To my knowledge, I had never seen him until then.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to go to the assembly on the night of
Friday, November 22, at which time Oswald was brought into the assembly
room, or lineup room, I think it is in the police building, and as
Oswald was shown, I think, by the district attorney to the various
reporters who were assembled there?
Mr. TURNER. No, sir; we didn’t arrive over until 1 a.m., Saturday
morning prior to the shooting, so we did not have access to the lineup
room that night.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, on the morning of the 24th, would you tell us what
your activities were?
Mr. TURNER. Well, we--I am not sure on the exact time we arrived. I
think it was around 7:30, from Fort Worth. We set up our cameras down
in the basement. We had one on the third floor and one camera on the
truck, on the outside exit way from the jail. The driveway on the
Commerce Street side of the jail. We set our cameras up right across
from the door in the hallway where they bring the prisoners out to
transfer them, or Oswald out, which--and that little hallway is very
narrow. Do you have a plan there?
Mr. HUBERT. Just a moment.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. HUBERT. I am marking a document as follows to wit: “Dallas, Tex.,
March 25, 1954. Exhibit 5080, Deposition of Jimmy Turner,” and signing
it with my name and asking Mr. Turner to sign his name below that. Now,
Mr. Turner, using the chart which we have marked now as Exhibit 5080,
would you, sir, tell us of your activities on the morning of November
24, using a sequence of numbers placed in a circle as to each stopping
point, or object that you testify about.
Mr. TURNER. All right. Now, getting back, we had first placed the
camera in “1”, where I will mark “1” on this.
Mr. HUBERT. In the circle.
Mr. TURNER. In a circle. Now, this is a camera position. Can I make it
a box? We’ll keep the camera as a box and the circles as people.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s correct, but in each case put a numeral.
Mr. TURNER. Numeral.
Mr. HUBERT. In the circle, or box, and use the numerals in sequence.
Mr. TURNER. “No. 1,” would be our camera in our original position
before Chief Curry came down and talked to us about not having it in
that position. We had----
Mr. HUBERT. What time was that?
Mr. TURNER. Oh, it was approximately 9 to 10, that’s all I can say. I
have no recollection of the time. All right, and in position No. “1,”
we had stationed our camera. Chief Curry came out in a period of 9 to
10 and said, “Boys, you can’t leave the camera there. It’s going to be
in the way when they bring him out the door. Now, I want all you boys
to get a clean shot of it, so, I will get the cars moved out across the
railing.” So, we’ll number the rail “2.”
Mr. HUBERT. Yes. Put that in the circles, too.
Mr. TURNER. All right. No. “2” position here [indicating]. “We’ll move
the cars out from that location and you can set your cameras there, and
I will assure you that you will have a clean shot of the whole thing,”
meaning that we would have a good angle on him coming out of the jail,
and everything, so, we immediately rerun our camera cables across the
driveway up above, hung them up in the air conditioning, which is
position “3,” across--can I keep this “3” all the way through?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. TURNER. And, sir, we ran our camera cables back along the route of
No. “3.”
Mr. HUBERT. Let me interrupt you for a moment. Prior to this move, your
camera cables came down on the Harwood Street side of the ramp leading
to the Commerce Street----
Mr. TURNER. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Right?
Mr. TURNER. In other words--I do not recognize this line here
[indicating], this line--this ramp--oh, this is the building. Oh,
this is the building overhang. Now, I know what that is. This is the
complete building that covers it.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. TURNER. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when you phoned that your cameras would have to be
across the ramp, you ran into the problem of your cables?
Mr. TURNER. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. And, as I understanding your testimony you solved the
problem by placing your cables on the Harwood Street side of that ramp
leading to the Commerce Street up until the point “3” that you marked,
after you--after which you strung them over----
Mr. TURNER. It may have been back in here [indicating]. I don’t think
they came completely to this point.