The testimony of Dr. Fred A. Bieberdorf was taken at 3:25 p.m., on
March 31, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert,
Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. The deposition of Dr. Fred A. Bieberdorf [spelling]
B-i-e-b-e-r-d-o-r-f. Right?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Dr. Bieberdorf, my name is Leon Hubert, I am a member
of the advisory staff of the General Counsel of the President’s
Commission. Under the provisions of the Executive Order No. 11130,
dated November 29, 1963, Joint Resolution of Congress 137, and rules of
procedure adopted by the President’s Commission in conformance with the
Executive order and joint resolution I have been authorized to take a
sworn deposition from you. I state to you now that the general nature
of the Commission’s inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon
the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the
subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular to you, Dr. Bieberdorf, the nature of the inquiry is to
ascertain the facts that you know about the death of Oswald and then
any other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry. Now,
Doctor, I think you have received a letter addressed to you by Mr. J.
Lee Rankin, General Counsel for the President’s Commission, is that
correct?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that letter received by you in excess of 3 days from
today?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, you are appearing here as a consequence of that
letter?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you stand and raise your right hand? Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Please state your name, sir.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Frederick Adolph Bieberdorf.
Mr. HUBERT. Your age?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Twenty-five.
Mr. HUBERT. Your residence?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. 8603 Midway Road, Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. At present, fourth-year medical student.
Mr. HUBERT. Where?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. At Southwestern Medical School, University of Texas.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you happen to be in the basement of the jail of the
Dallas police, on the morning of November 24, 1963?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. I was.
Mr. HUBERT. In what capacity?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. I was, at that time, employed by the city of Dallas,
city health department, as first aid attendant for the--I was employed
at that time as first aid attendant by the city of Dallas, city health
department. The nature of this job is as follows: Mainly administering
first aid and emergency medical care to prisoners within the city jail,
or prisoners that they’ve brought in.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been doing that sort of work for some time?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. A little bit over a year.
Mr. HUBERT. You say fourth year at the Southwestern University, does
that mean that you are a senior?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. That’s right. I graduate in June.
Mr. HUBERT. You will receive a M.D. in June?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. In June of 1964?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Yes; that’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. What time did you go on duty that day?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. I arrived down there about 9:30 in the morning.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Doctor, I have shown you, and I believe you have read
what purports to be a report of an interview of you by FBI Agents
Mabey and Hughes on December 5, 1963, which I am now marking for
identification on the first page by writing as follows: “Dallas, Tex.,
March 31, 1964. Exhibit 5123, Deposition of Dr. Fred Bieberdorf.” I am
signing my own name on the first page; on the second page I am placing
my initials in the lower right-hand corner, the same with the third and
the same with the fourth and last. In order that the record may show
that we are both talking about the same document, I ask you please to
sign your name under my signature, or by it, and place your initials
also on the subsequent pages. Now, Doctor, addressing ourselves to the
exhibit marked now for identification as 5123, I ask you if you have
read it?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. I have read it.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it correct and true?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. In the main, it is. There are a few corrections in it
and additions that I would like to make.
Mr. HUBERT. Very well. Suppose that we do it this way. If you can
identify by page, paragraph and sentence that part which you need to
have modified by reading in quotes, as it were, stating then for the
record, “quote, unquote,” and then make the comment. I think that the
record will be better in that way.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Okay. First of all, throughout this document my last
name is misspelled.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let’s see. To get that straight, your last name is
[spelling] B-i-e-b-e-r-d-o-r-f?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. And it is spelled “B-e-i,” instead of B-i-e.
Mr. HUBERT. I see.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Okay. And on page 1, paragraph 2, on the second
sentence of that paragraph that reads, “He stated he relieved a Bill
Hall, former classmate, who had been on duty since noon of the previous
day.”
Mr. HUBERT. Now, what is the comment you have to make about that?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Well, he is not a classmate. He is a medical student,
but he is not a classmate of mine.
Mr. HUBERT. Otherwise, the sentence is correct?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Otherwise it is correct. Okay. In that same--on page
1, second paragraph, the sixth sentence, which reads, “He advised that
from his position he had an unobstructed view of the basement parking
area and that he did not notice if there were any doors between them
and the basement area.”
The position that they are talking about that has been previously
identified, I did not have what you would call an unobstructed view of
the area, due to the presence of somewhere around 20, somewhere between
15 and 20 newsmen that were standing between me and the basement
parking area.
Mr. HUBERT. Where were you standing?
Does that Exhibit 5123, state?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. It states that I was standing in the basement at an
intersection of the hallway beneath the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. Isn’t that correct?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. That is correct, and I suppose that is the only
intersection of hallways underneath the city hall to the basement. I
can assure you on this [indicating].
Mr. HUBERT. Yes. All right, now, in connection with your explanation of
the sentence you have just quoted, I want to ask you what your position
was in the jail basement area. Now, you have examined the mockup which
is in this room, and in order to make a permanent record of where you
pointed out you were, I am marking a chart of the basement as follows:
“Dallas, Tex., March 31, 1964. Exhibit 5124. Deposition of Dr. Fred
Bieberdorf.” I am signing my name, and below that, and in order that
the record may show that we are both talking about the same document, I
ask you to sign your name below mine, and then correlating the mockup
and the chart marked Exhibit 5124, ask you to place an “X” and encircle
the “X” as to the position you were standing at the time of the
shooting.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Let me look at this. Yes, that is the exact way. This
is accurate [indicating].