Dr. BIEBERDORF. I drew in another line to represent the wall around the
corner.
Mr. HUBERT. You have also placed an “X” in your own handwriting, and I
am writing now the following: “Position of Dr. Bieberdorf at the time
of shooting.”
I am encircling that language and connecting it by a line with the
circle drawn by Dr. Bieberdorf. All right. Now, have you any other
comments to make about Document Exhibit 5123?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. A few more minor ones. Several more minor ones.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Page 1, second paragraph, the last sentence on that
page states “He stated that he then immediately saw Ruby laying faceup
in the jail office lobby, approximately 10 feet inside the jail lobby
door.”
Mr. HUBERT. Now, your comment.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. My comment is that I did see Ruby’s feet, at least,
but I did not notice whether he was lying faceup or facedown. He was
surrounded by a number of police officers.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Ruby at the time?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. No, I didn’t have any idea who it was, and that is the
reason that I got so close there, that I thought that this was Oswald.
Mr. HUBERT. You thought it was the man who had been shot?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. All right. Correction, not Oswald, but the person who
had been shot. At the time I did not know who had been shot, if, any
shot--if, indeed it had been a shot and I did not get a look at the
person to see his face, or even to see whether he was lying faceup or
facedown. I could just see him on the floor surrounded by a number of
men.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, any other modifications or corrections?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. On page 2, it is actually a continuation of the same
sentence that ends on page 1. On page 2, “And he then saw Oswald in the
same position.”
Well, “same position,” refers to “faceup,” and indeed, Oswald was
faceup, but if this is an amendment where Ruby is no longer faceup,
better change this to “faceup.”
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Okay. On page 2, the first paragraph; about the third
sentence there begins, “He noticed that someone had pulled Oswald’s
shirt up to his chest, and he could see a puncture wound in the left
side of Oswald’s stomach just below the rib cage.”
He did have this puncture wound on his left side, but it wasn’t below
his rib cage. It was--I’d like to correct that “stomach”. Just below
the rib cage to the left side of his lower chest. I don’t really--I
didn’t count what rib it was under, but I believe it was between the
two ribs, probably down just below the fifth or sixth.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, any others?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Oh; I skipped one or two. Excuse me. Back on page 1,
the second paragraph on page 1, the sentence that begins near the
bottom of the page, that begins: “He stated this took him several
minutes due to the confusion and by the time he reached the general
vicinity of the location--”. This “several minutes,” I don’t believe is
accurate. I don’t recall whether I said several minutes at the time. I
later--well, I think it was a matter of, say, “something like 1 to 2
minutes, rather than several minutes” and again, in the same paragraph,
next to last sentence on the page that begins, “He stated he searched
the immediate area for several minutes before proceeding.”
I think this, again, is way too long and had better read, “a few
seconds,” than several minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Any other corrections?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. On page 2, second paragraph, the third sentence
which is the last sentence, “He stated the latter two,” referring to
the ambulance driver and his assistant, “--ambulance driver and his
assistant were riding in the front seat, and the two detectives were in
a seat immediately behind the front seat, and Detective Leavelle was
sitting immediately to his left in the rear of the ambulance.” The two
detectives, and rather than “sitting in the seat in--immediately behind
the front seat,” they were behind--just inside the tailgate of the
ambulance, about Oswald’s feet, and Officer Leavelle and myself were
sitting in the seat directly behind the front seat.
You earlier made the query about when I had left him. It states in
here--on page 2, the last sentence of the last paragraph, “He stated
2 minutes after entering the emergency room, also known as the trauma
room, Oswald was removed to the operating room.” He was removed to the
operating room via an elevator, and at that point that was the point I
last saw him.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he alive at that point?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. He was still alive at that time. I am just going by
hearsay, now. He was said to have died--well, he was still moving
around at that time, so, he was definitely alive.
Mr. HUBERT. You were with him in the ambulance all the way through?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And when he got to the ambulance you saw signs of life?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Although, I did not until we got about halfway to
Parkland.
Mr. HUBERT. You thought he was dead?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. He--I surmised he was dead until he started moving a
little bit.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he make any statement at all?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. He did not utter any sound at all, that I heard.
Mr. HUBERT. Any other corrections?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Let’s see. On page 3, the second paragraph, “Bieberdorf
states that he was not acquainted with Jack Ruby, but that he did
interview Ruby in the police jail on Sunday, November 24, at about 4 or
5 p.m.”
This time--I looked it up at a later date, and it was at exactly 2:05
p.m., rather than my estimation at that time of 4 or 5 p.m.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, have you any other on that document 5123?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Well, there are a few more.
Mr. HUBERT. Otherwise, it stated correctly the nature of the physical
examination that you gave to Ruby and the findings?
Dr. BIEBERDORF. The next sentence that follows that is correct, but
then there is another. That same paragraph, the last sentence in this
paragraph reads, “Bieberdorf states that he gave Ruby a physical
examination at this time in order to insure Ruby had not concealed any
weapon on his person.”
This is not correct here. Later on in the afternoon of November 24, I
was asked by the police or Lieutenant--I believe in charge of the jail
at that time, to go upstairs and at the request of detectives and one
of the FBI agents, I performed a rectal examination on him to make sure
he had not smuggled--or to see if he had brought anything in on his
person.
This was at 6 p.m., so, I did see Ruby on two occasions. One at 2:05
and one at 6. I think that report tends to indicate it was only one.
Mr. HUBERT. It really was two, and you have explained it.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Dr. BIEBERDORF. Okay, on page 3, the last paragraph, second sentence,
“He stated he had no knowledge of security measures in effect in the
basement on November 24, 1963, other than the fact that he was asked to
remove himself from the basement, and he assumed only police officers
and press men were allowed to remain.” I think that sentence ought
to be deleted and changed to something like: “I was asked to remove
myself from the basement parking area at--prior to Oswald’s being
moved, and was told by police officers at that time that only police
personnel were being allowed in the area, and I, of course, later saw
that press men were able to gain access to the area by presenting their
credentials.”
And that is, I think, the only correction.