The testimony of Rio S. Pierce was taken at 11:20 p.m., on March 24,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Lt. Rio S. Pierce, with the
Dallas Police Department. Lieutenant Pierce, my name is Leon D. Hubert,
Jr. I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel on the
President's Commission. Under the provisions of the Executive Order
No. 11130, dated November 29, 1963, the joint resolution of Congress
No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the Commission in
conformance with the Executive order and that joint resolution, I have
been authorized to take the sworn deposition from you, Lieutenant
Pierce. I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's
inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating
to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent
death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular to you, Lieutenant Pierce,
the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know
about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know
about the general inquiry. Lieutenant Pierce, you have appeared today
by virtue of a general request made to Chief Curry by J. Lee Rankin,
the General Counsel of the Commission. Under the rules adopted by the
Commission you are entitled to have a 3-day written notice prior to the
taking of the deposition, but the rules also provide that you may waive
that 3-day written notice if you see fit to do so, and I ask you----
Lieutenant PIERCE. I waive that.
Mr. HUBERT. May I ask you to stand and raise your right hand so that
you can be sworn? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you please state your name?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Rio S. Pierce.
Mr. HUBERT. Age?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Forty.
Mr. HUBERT. Your residence, please?
Lieutenant PIERCE. 3227 South Edgefield.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Police officer, city of Dallas.
Mr. HUBERT. And how long have you been so occupied?
Lieutenant PIERCE. About 17 1/2 years.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you held the rank of lieutenant?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Four years.
Mr. HUBERT. What were your specific duties and responsibilities on
November 24, 1963?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Do you have reference to normal duties, or on this
specific day?
Mr. HUBERT. On this specific day.
Lieutenant PIERCE. On this specific day I had instructions to secure
the basement of the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. From whom did you receive those instructions?
Lieutenant PIERCE. From Captain Talbert.
Mr. HUBERT. Is he one of your superior officers?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Yes; captain of the radio patrol, lieutenant
commander and----
Mr. HUBERT. What time did he give you those orders, sir?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I would say about 9 to 9:15.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he direct you as to what you were to do in order to
secure the basement area?
Lieutenant PIERCE. No, sir; other than securing enough men from the
other stations to secure the basement properly and make arrangements
for whatever manpower was needed for the transfer.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Would you state for the record what you actually
did in connection with carrying out those orders?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Well, while we were responsible for the routine work
of the department, we had to determine what manpower would be pulled on
the various substations that we had, and those men were called in to
the central station to be used as they were needed. Sergeant Dean was
assigned the security of the basement, and he was assisted by Sergeant
Putnam, and as I recall, there was a total of about 19 men that were
called off their districts to help in this work.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you, yourself, do any of the inspection work, or the
searching out work?
Lieutenant PIERCE. No, sir; Sergeant Dean made the assignment of the
men, and approximately an hour later, I guess maybe 10:15, I did make
an inspection of the basement, and apparently everything had been
checked out, and it was considered secure.
Mr. HUBERT. What did your inspection consist of at the time?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Looking over the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you walk around?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Yes, sir; I walked around the basement and checked
various entrances to the city hall basement.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a reserve officer by the name of Brock?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I can't recall right now. I know the name, I am sure
that I know him by sight, but I don't connect the name with the person.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you notice that there had been placed a uniformed
officer, reserve or otherwise, near the service elevator in the
basement?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Are you talking about in the new building?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes, sir; the elevator that goes up into the municipal
building.
Lieutenant PIERCE. As well as I remember, there was an officer. I
believe his name was Brock. A police officer by the name of Brock. I'm
not certain, but those elevators had been cut off for----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, the two regular elevators had, but what about the
service elevator that had two doors, one leading into the basement and
another one leading on the other side of the basement? Are you familiar
with the elevator at all?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Yes, sir; it has a back door to it leading out into
the alley, and that is the elevator I believe, that was brought down
and cut off and an officer stationed there to see that it didn't run.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware of any planned route from the basement area
to the county jail?
Lieutenant PIERCE. My instructions were that I would escort the armored
car, which would be a decoy, from Commerce Street ramp to Central
northbound. To Elm Street onto Houston Street, which would be the
entrance to the county jail.
Mr. HUBERT. Who did you receive those orders from?
Lieutenant PIERCE. From Chief Curry and Chief Stevenson.
Mr. HUBERT. About what time did you get those orders?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I would assume it was about 11:15.
Mr. HUBERT. What did you do then?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I immediately left. I received these instructions
in the homicide office, which is on the third floor of the city hall.
Immediately left there and rode the elevator down to the basement where
I secured a car and I found that the normal exit, which is the exit on
Commerce Street from the basement of the city hall, was blocked by an
armored car. It was necessary for me to use the Main Street exit. I
mean--actually, the Main Street entrance, because we don't exit----
Mr. HUBERT. But you used it as an exit?
Lieutenant PIERCE. I used it as an exit.
Mr. HUBERT. Who was with you?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Sergeant Putnam was in the front seat with me and
Sergeant Maxey was in the back seat.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, tell us what happened along the route then?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Well, we pulled out of the basement, and I would
judge from the time, from the length of time, probably a length it
would take it to circle city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. When you got to the top of the basement, were there any
guards there on the Main Street entrance?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Patrolman Vaughn was stationed at the top of the
ramp.
Mr. HUBERT. You knew him prior to that time?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What happened then?
Lieutenant PIERCE. Well, actually, nothing happened outside of the fact
that he had to move out of the way to let us out.
Mr. HUBERT. Which way did he move?
Lieutenant PIERCE. He moved toward the street.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean on which side of you?
Lieutenant PIERCE. He moved to my right.
Mr. HUBERT. And towards the street?
Lieutenant PIERCE. And towards the street; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What way was he facing then during the period that you were
moving by him?
Lieutenant PIERCE. He was facing me, as well as I remember.