Mr. HUBERT. You mean back towards the Western Union?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever go on the other side of the Main Street ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Towards Harwood?
Mr. DANIELS. No--at no time--I never did.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say you went towards the bannister, were you on
the inside of the bannister, that is to say, between the bannister and
the ramp, or on the Western Union side of it?
Mr. DANIELS. You mean after I got back to it?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; I got--I went back to it and stood on the Western
Union side and just propped my foot up on the end of it.
Mr. HUBERT. You were then facing toward Harwood Street?
Mr. DANIELS. Correct.
Mr. HUBERT. More or less?
Mr. DANIELS. Correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you move out of that position at all?
Mr. DANIELS. Well, yes; during the time I was there I moved several
times, but it was all right around in that area there.
Mr. HUBERT. But did you ever go to the Harwood Street side of the Main
Street ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I am going to draw it lightly first so we can get it
straight--if I draw an area like so--would it be fair to say that you
were at all times that you are going to testify to later, within that
area, except when you left?
Mr. DANIELS. Now, what is this here--is this the bannister here?
Mr. HUBERT. No; this is the measuring line, this doesn't actually show
the bannister.
Mr. DANIELS. The bannister come right around in here--I was always
right in this area right in here.
Mr. HUBERT. So, we will draw a circle like that.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I am drawing a larger circle in which I am putting the
number "3", drawing a line out and saying "Area in which Daniels was
after he left position '1' and until shooting." Right?
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I understand, of course, that you might have moved
around in that area, but substantially that's what it was?
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was on the Western Union side of the little concrete
or marble ramp that comes out?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you are telling me that you never did go on the Harwood
Street side thereafter?
Mr. DANIELS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. How many people were in the area you were in--this area
that we have marked No. 3?
Mr. DANIELS. Well, now, at different times there was as high as four or
five--some of them would come by and stop and then go on.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. DANIELS. Let me see--about that.
Mr. HUBERT. Even though there were some people on the other side of the
ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; there was three or four on the other side.
Mr. HUBERT. How long before Oswald was shot, and I think you did hear
the shot?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How long before Oswald was shot did you get to position No.
1?
Mr. DANIELS. I would say 20 or 25 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. And then, how long were you in position No. 3 before he was
shot, in the area of No. 3?
Mr. DANIELS. Well, let me see--almost the same, because I had just came
over here and looked and immediately walked back over here--I would say
no time.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you came from your car to position 1 and
took a quick look and went to the area of No. 3?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you stayed there until the shot was fired, and you
think it was about 20 minutes later?
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember a car coming up the ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Lt. Rio Pierce?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you recognize him driving the car?
Mr. DANIELS. I don't remember whether he was driving or not, there were
four officers in there and he was the only one I recognized right off.
Mr. HUBERT. There were four in there you say?
Mr. DANIELS. Two in the front and two in the back.
Mr. HUBERT. Who were the others?
Mr. DANIELS. I didn't really get a good look at them but I knew him,
but I got a better look at him than I did the rest of them.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he see you--did he show any signs of recognition to you?
Mr. DANIELS. No.
Mr. HUBERT. How long before the shooting did that occur?
Mr. DANIELS. Let's see, I would say 3 or 4 minutes. Now, I have been
thoroughly confused on this because down at the police department they
tell me one thing and it gets my mind all confused.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, what we want is not what somebody else told you, but
what you, yourself can best remember today.
Mr. DANIELS. Here's what struck me--when I saw the car come out, I
was thinking--I guess they are fixing to bring Oswald out now, maybe,
because they are coming out to set up a guard, and they pulled on out
and I remember watching the car until they got to Harwood and Main, and
then I stopped looking at it and I didn't pay any attention to where
it went or anything, and then I kind of looked back down in there from
where I was standing near the ramp there.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when the car came out, what did Vaughn do?
Mr. DANIELS. Vaughn walked out to the street to hold up traffic,
because they were coming out the wrong way. They don't normally come
out that way and he was going out to hold up traffic and let them get
through.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he get beyond the sidewalk so that he was actually out
in the street?
Mr. DANIELS. I think he walked out in the street.
Mr. HUBERT. How far into the street?
Mr. DANIELS. That would be hard to say but I wasn't paying that much
attention, but he walked out into the street--he didn't get beyond the
center of the street, but he walked out in there.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, he left position No. 2 and went to a
position we will call No. 4 by a circle, and I will just write in there
"approximate position of Vaughn when Rio Pierce's car drove out," and
when I say "approximate," I am understanding you to say that you are
not sure how far into the street he went, you know he did not go
beyond the center stripe, but you think he went----