The testimony of Napoleon J. Daniels was taken at 2:40 p.m., on April
16, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. My name is Leon Hubert, Mr. Daniels. I'm a member of the
advisory staff of the general counsel of the President's Commission
under the provisions of Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963,
and joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure
adopted by the Commission in conformance with the Executive order and
the joint resolution, and I have been authorized to take the sworn
deposition from you, Mr. Daniels.
I state to you now that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry
is to ascertain, evaluate, and to report on the facts relating to the
assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of
Lee Harvey Oswald.
In particular as to you, Mr. Daniels, the nature of the inquiry today
is to determine what facts you know about the death of Oswald and any
other pertinent facts you may know about the general inquiry, and, of
course, about the entry of Jack Ruby into the basement of the police
department.
Now, Mr. Daniels, I think you have appeared here today by virtue of a
written request sent to you by mail.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And signed by Mr. J. Lee Rankin.
Mr. DANIELS. Correct.
Mr. HUBERT. General Counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you receive that letter more than 3 days ago?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; I received it Saturday, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. Last Saturday?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Let the record show that this is Thursday.
Mr. DANIELS. It has been 3 days.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you raise your right hand, stand, and take the oath,
please?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in this
matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. DANIELS. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. State your full name?
Mr. DANIELS. Napoleon J. Daniels.
Mr. HUBERT. Your age?
Mr. DANIELS. Thirty-two.
Mr. HUBERT. And your residence?
Mr. DANIELS. 2229 Sutter [spelling] S-u-t-t-e-r.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation, Mr. Daniels?
Mr. DANIELS. Real estate broker.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so occupied?
Mr. DANIELS. About 3 years.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you own your own company?
Mr. DANIELS. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. You were at one time connected with the police department,
were you not?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; about 7 years.
Mr. HUBERT. About 7 years?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you leave the police department?
Mr. DANIELS. I left there in November 1962.
Mr. HUBERT. What were the circumstances under which you left?
Mr. DANIELS. Let me see just how I can put this--well, I resigned, of
course, I was asked to resign because of some conflicts I had with a
tenant living in one of my apartments.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, you rented out some property to a tenant
and you had some difficulty with the tenant?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And on account of that difficulty they asked you to resign
from the police department?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You did resign?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And have you continued in the business under the name N. J.
Daniels Real Estate Co.?
Mr. DANIELS. That's right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that a corporation?
Mr. DANIELS. No; just a company.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I know you have already made a statement to the FBI,
as a matter of fact, I think you have made two statements, one to the
State police--I would now just like for you to tell us what you know of
entry of Jack Ruby into the basement?
Mr. DANIELS. Well, actually, I don't feel like I really know anything,
but I saw a guy go in the basement, but I don't think it was Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. Let's start off with that morning, of course, you knew that
the President had been killed?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And as I understand, you were riding in your own car over
towards the place where he was killed?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes, I was going out Main Street. I was going--let's see,
that was Sunday morning and I was going down Main Street to look at the
spot where the President had been assassinated and as I drove by the
city hall, I noticed a bunch of people standing around and noticed this
officer standing in the entrance to the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. On Main Street?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; on Main Street, and so I made the block and turned
around and came back and parked.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you park?
Mr. DANIELS. Pardon?
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you park?
Mr. DANIELS. On Main there, right down from the city hall there, I
guess about a half a block down.
Mr. HUBERT. On the other side of the street?
Mr. DANIELS. On the same side of the city hall, you see, I went around
and came back.
Mr. HUBERT. You went around what street?
Mr. DANIELS. Now, that first street down, I guess that's--I was going
down Main and turned, I believe the first block.
Mr. HUBERT. Would that have been Pearl?
Mr. DANIELS. No; you see, I was going west on Main and the first street
I could turn--I think the first street is a one way going left, but I
turned and came back the other way, so it must have been Ervay where I
turned and went up to Pacific and then come back up to Harwood and then
came down Harwood to Main and made a left on Main and parked up in a
vacant space on the other side of the city hall--on the east side of
the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. I thought you had parked at a parking lot near the Western
Union office?
Mr. DANIELS. No; it wasn't a parking lot. I was thinking I parked on
the street.
Mr. HUBERT. You parked on the street?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it near the Western Union office?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; right down from the city hall. In other words, it was
in between there and the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. But you were parked on Main Street?
Mr. DANIELS. On the south side of Main.
Mr. HUBERT. Not in a parking lot?
Mr. DANIELS. No; I wasn't at a parking lot, no, I think I parked on the
street, I'm sure.
Mr. HUBERT. And you parked on the same side of the street as the city
hall and as the police department is and as the Western Union office is?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you parked at a spot between the Western Union office
and the Main Street entrance of the city hall?
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Or the police department?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You are familiar with that building, because you worked
there for a long time?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you say you were about half way between the Western
Union and the Main ramp, or just what distance between those two?
Mr. DANIELS. Oh, let me see, let me get it in my mind--I would say
I was a little nearer the Western Union Building than I was to the
entrance of the basement of the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you familiar with that alley that goes from Main Street
back in towards Commerce and makes an "L" and comes out on Pearl Street?
Mr. DANIELS. I think I was just on the east side of that.
Mr. HUBERT. When you say "east," it doesn't mean anything to me.
Mr. DANIELS. Near Pearl.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you were on the Western Union side of the
alley?
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. And your car was facing towards the Western Union?
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, about what time was it when you got there?
Mr. DANIELS. Near 11 o'clock--I wasn't paying much attention to the
time, it must have been near 11 o'clock or a little after.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you fix that?
Mr. DANIELS. Well, I'm trying to fix it at about the time Oswald was
shot. Now, I was there about 20 or 25 or 30 minutes before it happened.
Mr. HUBERT. When you parked your car, did you sit in your car any
length of time at all?
Mr. DANIELS. No; I got out and walked back up there.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you immediately got out and walked back up to the
Main door--the Main door entrance?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I'm going to show you a drawing, which among other
things includes the entrance to the basement, and I am marking it for
the purpose of identification as follows:
"Dallas, Tex., April 16, 1964, Exhibit No. 5324, Deposition of N. J.
Daniels," and I am marking it with my name.
I would like you to study this, and I point out to you that this is
Main Street, here is the Western Union office, and here is Pearl.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Over in that direction would be Harwood, Commerce is over
here.
Mr. DANIELS. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the Main Street entrance?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. The sidewalk.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And I think you are familiar with the fact that there is
a stone fence about 2 feet high that runs from the entrance of Main
Street toward the street some distance.
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, as I understand it, you were parked on Main Street
itself?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Facing towards the Western Union Building?
Mr. DANIELS. This side of the street.
Mr. HUBERT. On the same side of the street as the Western Union
Building?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that you reached there at approximately 11 o'clock?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; at approximately 11 o'clock.
Mr. HUBERT. You immediately got out of your car and you walked toward
the Main Street ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When you got down there, did you go past the ramp, or did
you stay on the Western Union side of the ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. I think when I first got there, I walked over in front of
the little entrance down in there.
Mr. HUBERT. So you could look right down the ramp?
Mr. DANIELS. So I could look in there, because I was on the sidewalk
when I did that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Officer Vaughn?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. You had known him from the time you were on the police
force?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he recognize you?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you went to the middle of the ramp, but still on the
sidewalk and looked down the sidewalk?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you stay there very long?
Mr. DANIELS. No; I spoke to him and he told me that he was blocking
anybody's entrance, in other words, that's what he meant, that he was
blocking anybody's entrance into the basement. That's what he was there
for.
Mr. HUBERT. He was posted at that spot--where was he standing?
Mr. DANIELS. He was standing right in the middle of the entrance there.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I'm going to mark on Exhibit 5324 a position which I
am going to call "1" and I am putting a circle on it and I'm going to
draw a line, and then I'm going to put "First position of Daniels," is
that about correct?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes, that's about correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I'm going to mark a position called "2" and I'm going
to draw a line, and I'm going to mark it "position of Vaughn when
Daniels was in position number "1", and ask you if that is correct?
Mr. DANIELS. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. And as you said, he recognized you and you recognized him?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you looked down?
Mr. DANIELS. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Then what did you do?