Mr. CUTCHSHAW. The way you are talking is that I am concerned that
I think we have done something wrong. I don't think there is one
wrongdoing, as far as the officers are concerned and what happened down
there. I didn't think like that.
Departmental wise or individualwise, there are things pro and con of
what should have happened and what shouldn't have happened.
One way of looking, there shouldn't have been any news media, and maybe
they shouldn't have been spread out that way, but we would have caught
the dickens that way.
And, as I heard, Chief Curry had the okay from a little higher up to go
ahead and have the news media, and it didn't turn out too good.
But as far as wrongdoings, there is not one wrong thing that happened
as far as our department is concerned.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Lowery? Are you much of a friend with Lowery?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. We ride to work together and run around a bit together.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How friendly are you with Harrison?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. We are good friends, but as far as running around, he
lives way over in Pleasant Grove, and I live in Grand Prairie. It is
way across town, so we don't get around together.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Lowery had seen Ruby. Did Lowery know Ruby?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Did he recognize Ruby before?
Mr. GRIFFIN. He had seen Ruby on a number of occasions, actually,
didn't he before?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. You mean before this happened?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I tell you the truth, I really don't know. I think he
said he knew him, or seen him around, but as far as actual standing
there, I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Captain King in the basement at any time prior
to the shooting?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, now, that I don't remember whether I saw him down
there prior to the shooting or whether it was after. There was a whole
bunch of officers down there, and, man, I do remember a few immediately
right there, and someone that came out the door, because I was right
there and watched them as they came out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, if you and Captain King had been standing
together and you both saw Ruby and you both knew Ruby, what would you
do?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, now, you mean if we saw him come into the
basement, or if we saw him standing there?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Saw him standing down there and you were both standing
there together?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, that is something that is pretty hard to say,
honestly, because the basement is supposed to be secured when we went
down there.
In other words, everybody that wasn't supposed to be there, was
supposed to be out, and they had officers checking them coming in, and
me not knowing Ruby, I probably wouldn't have known him if I had been
shown him on the street.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If you knew Ruby and you both were standing there, if you
knew him and you and Captain King were standing there, and you knew
Captain King was looking at him too----
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I would have tried to find out what he was doing,
knowing he wasn't a newsman or couldn't have a news pass.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you have deferred to Captain King or any other
superior officer? Would you let him take the initiative on it?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I would have asked him myself if I had seen him, because
that is what we were down there for.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What I am trying to get at, and the only reason I use
Captain King--I could have used Chief Batchelor or anybody like that,
but my point is, that if a junior officer like you and a senior officer
were standing together, is there any feeling that you would defer to
the senior officer to take the initiative in throwing some guy out?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. If he were in charge of me or in charge of security and
if I saw Jack Ruby there and he didn't have a pass on and I knew him
and knew that he was not a news representative, then if I confronted
him and he said, "Chief Batchelor said it was okay," then I would have
asked the chief if it was all right.
Otherwise, I wouldn't say the chief had anything to do with it and I
would put him out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So, if you had seen him first, you would have gone
directly to him and then turned to your superior officer and said what
shall I do about this guy?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I would have went directly to him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You would have gone directly to him. Do you think that is
true of any other officer or do you think some of them would have acted
different?
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. That is hard to say, not knowing every officer's traits.
Some operate one way and some operate another.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want you to examine Cutchshaw Exhibits Nos. 5042,
5043, 5044, 5045, and 5046, and if there are no further additions or
corrections to make to those in addition to all this we have been
talking about, then I would like you to sign each one of these and date
them.
Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Where do you want me to sign?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sign it in a conspicuous place where I have placed the
mark on the paper. Sign your name and date it. Regular signature or
full name.