The first witness examined was

* * * * *

Archibald Jeffrey, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 32 Anderson street.

Q. How long have you resided there?

A. Going on three years.

Q. What is your business?

A. I am a machinist.

Q. Were you in the vicinity of the disorders that occurred, commencing

on the 19th day of July last--that day or at any time following?

A. I was out there on the 22d--I believe that is Saturday evening.

Q. At what point?

A. About Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Tell us what you saw there?

A. There was a great deal of noise around there for awhile.

Q. Made by whom?

A. I can't just exactly tell who.

Q. There was a crowd there?

A. Yes.

Q. Composed of what classes?

A. Of most every class.

Q. How large a crowd was there?

A. I have no idea--I suppose a thousand or fifteen hundred men--I

suppose so.

Q. How long before the burning was it that you speak about?

A. I went out there in the evening about five o'clock--along there--and

I think the burning commenced about ten and a half o'clock.

Q. What was the conduct of the crowd at five or six o'clock, when you

went there first?

A. That was after the shooting had been done out there.

Q. After the firing by the militia, you mean?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the condition of the crowd at that time?

A. There was a lot of talking going on about the soldiers; but not

being interested in the thing at all, I didn't pay much attention to

it.

Q. What kind of talk was it?

A. They appeared to be angry about the soldiers firing at the crowd.

Q. Where was the crowd assembled then?

A. About Twenty-eighth street, near the crossing.

Q. Did you see anybody set fire to any car or building, or anything in

the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?

A. I did see one man. He was the only man.

Q. Who was he?

A. Matthew Marshall.

Q. What time was that?

A. It was in the afterpart of the night. I can't say exactly.

Q. What was it he fired?

A. A car of coke.

Q. Where was the car standing?

A. On the track, about two squares above Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Just describe how he did it; where he got his fire; how it took

place?

A. I don't know where he got his fire. When I noticed him first he was

in the car. He had a bunch of shavings, and was in a sitting down

position, and appeared to me to be kindling a fire. When the fire got

kindled he jumped out. I saw him fifteen or twenty minutes afterwards.

He was the only person I know of.

Q. Did you speak to him?

A. No.

Q. Was anybody with him?

A. I didn't notice anybody with him.

Q. What was the result of the kindling of the fire?

A. If there had been no other fire it would have burnt that car up; but

there was fire all around.

Q. Other cars were then on fire?

A. Yes; burning at the same time.

Q. What has become of Mr. Marshall?

A. He is in prison--over the river.

Q. At whose instigation was he arrested?

A. I can't say that myself.

Q. You were not present when the firing took place by the militia?

A. No.

Q. Did you see any other fires kindled?

A. I don't believe I did.

Q. Describe whether there were other fires going on then, and how they

were kindled, and what the mob were doing, and describe all the

circumstances that took place at that time?

A. There appeared to me to be a gang of men. I don't know who they

were--whether railroaders or not.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did they seem to have any organized leaders, or were they directed

by anybody?

A. It appeared to me they had at that time.

Q. Were they not running helter-skelter?

A. They were ordering each other around. I can't say whether they had

an organization or not.

Q. Did it strike you that they had?

A. It did, at that time.

Q. That it was an organization?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Means:

Q. An organization without a head--do you mean to say that?

A. It appeared to me at that time that it was an organization, but I

don't say it positively myself.

Q. Was there any particular party to command it?

A. Yes; it looked to me so.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What did the crowd seem to be aiming at, at that time--was it the

destruction of property?

A. I can't say that. There was a great deal of destruction and thieving

going on.

Q. Pillage and plunder?

A. Yes.

Q. What was said by the rioters?

A. I can't state.

Q. Was this firing confined entirely to railroad property?

A. It was at that time.

Q. Was there any attempt made by any one, so far as you saw, to fire

private property?

A. No.

Q. It seemed to be confined entirely to railroad property?

A. Yes.

Q. This man Marshall you spoke of, was entirely alone when you saw him

fire the car?

A. So far as I know.

Q. Nobody seemed to be acting in concert with him?

A. No.

Q. Did this coke car stand entirely alone?

A. It stood in a train. They kept running cars down, six or seven at a

time, against each other. This came down with the rest of them.

Q. Describe that. The firing of this car would communicate to others?

A. Yes.

Q. After the car was fired, was it put in motion?

A. Not that I noticed.

Q. When you speak of running cars down, where were they running them

from?

A. From out the road some place. I think it is down grade this way.

Q. Did the cars stop at Twenty-eighth street?

A. Above Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Near the round-house?

A. The round-house is on Twenty-eighth street.

Q. Did the cars stop near the round-house?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were the troops then?

A. I suppose they were in one of the round-houses.

Q. Do you know that to be a fact?

A. I walked down, and the guard was standing there. I suppose so.

Q. The cars that were run down, then, would stop somewhere near the

round-house?

A. Yes.

Q. Was there any effort made to fire the round-house, that you saw?

A. No; I didn't get near enough.

Q. Was there any attack being made upon the round-house by the mob at

that time?

A. I can't say that there was. Not that I know of.

Q. Was there anything said by the mob about the soldiers being

quartered in the round-house?

A. Not that I can remember.

Q. How long were you there?

A. I went out in the evening about six or seven o'clock, along there. I

stayed along Liberty street and was once or twice on the railroad, and

saw Marshall, and along Liberty street at four or five o'clock in the

morning.

Q. How close to the mob?

A. I was twice, once or twice, upon the railroad.

Q. At what point on the railroad?

A. Just about where I saw this man.

Q. How far from the mob?

A. That just appeared to be--I stood along the edge of the railroad,

and this car was on the second or third track, off the edge of the

railroad.

Q. How many rods or feet from the mob?

A. Not more than five or six rods--something like that.

By Mr. Reyburn:

Q. You were in the crowd, were you?

A. No; not just in the crowd. I was standing looking at them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You were within five or six rods?

A. Yes.

Q. Was the crowd noisy and boisterous?

A. Yes.

Q. What did they appear to be saying?

A. I paid no attention to that.

Q. Did you hear them say anything?

A. I could hear them say a good bit, but it is a long time ago.

Q. What did they appear to be doing?

A. Dragging things off.

Q. What?

A. Goods and things.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Was this man Marshall a railroad man or an outsider?

A. I never knew him to be a railroad man.

Q. Do you know anything about him at all--you knew the man?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Where did he reside?

A. He lived in the First ward, Allegheny, some place.

Q. Had you known him for years?

A. Yes.

Q. He had lived in Allegheny for some time?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What was his business?

A. He was a machinist.

Q. In whose employ was he at that time?

A. I don't know.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What were you doing there--what led you to go there?

A. I heard of the excitement, and I went down town and went out to see

it.

Q. It was curiosity?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you say that other cars were burning when this man Marshall

fired this coke car?

A. Yes.

Q. At that time?

A. Yes.

Q. It was not the first car burned?

A. No.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Were you there when the first car was fired?

A. No.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What kind of things were they dragging off--merchandise from the

cars?

A. Yes.

Q. Were any railroad men among that party?

A. I don't know. I didn't know anybody but the one man.

Q. Did they have the appearance of railroad men--familiar with tracks

and with getting on and going about cars?

A. I can't say that.

Q. You could not judge anything from their actions?

A. No.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. How long was Marshall sent to the penitentiary for?

A. Six years, I believe.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. In whose employ were you at that time?

A. In the employ of McIntosh, Hemphill & Co.

Q. Where are their works located?

A. Twelfth and Pike.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. How far were the other cars that were burning from this one?

A. They were close. There were cars all around, I suppose within

thirty, or forty, or fifty feet.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. The crowd of spectators was not interfering with property?

A. No.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You were there until five o'clock in the morning?

A. About that time.

Q. How large was the crowd there during the night--take an average.--I

mean the crowd engaged in burning or pillaging or plundering?

A. I couldn't just give an idea.

Q. What is your opinion as to how large the crowd was--a thousand men

or five thousand or ten thousand?

A. Two or three thousand.

Q. You mean that were about in the vicinity, and seemed to be taking

part in the destruction of property?

A. If I were to give an estimate I would give you something that I

don't know.

Q. Was there any effort made to stop the destruction of property during

the night?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Was there any interference with it by any person?

A. Not that I saw.

Q. They were running things there themselves during the entire night?

A. It appeared so to me.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. You did not see any soldiers, except the guard at the round-house?

A. I saw the guard and two or three standing there with him.

Q. There were none active in trying to beat back the crowd?

A. No.

* * * * *

Thomas M. King, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In Verona borough.

Q. You are officially connected with the Allegheny Valley Railroad--in

what capacity?

A. I am superintendent of the river division.

Q. Did you occupy that position in July last?

A. Yes.

Q. State whether there were any differences between the Allegheny

Valley Railroad Company and their employés, existing prior to the 19th

day of July last?

A. There was some dissatisfaction among the men in regard to the ten

per cent. reduction, but they all appeared to accept it.

Q. When was the ten per cent. reduction made?

A. The 1st of June.

Q. To what classes of employés did that apply?

A. To all classes receiving over a dollar a day.

Q. And to the officers, from the president down?

A. Yes.

Q. There was some complaint at the time?

A. Some dissatisfaction.

Q. Between the 1st of June and the 19th of July, was there any

organization among the men, so far as you could learn, or any

pre-arranged plan to strike?

A. There was nothing positive. I understood that quite a number of the

men were joining what was called the Trainmen's Union.

Q. Did you know the object of the Trainmen's Union.

A. Of my own knowledge I did not. I understood it was being organized

for the purpose of organizing a strike.

Q. Did you, as superintendent, have any communication with the men that

you understood were joining the organization in relation to it?

A. A short time before the strike, three or four of our men, I

understood, were very active in it, and I think I suspended one or two

temporarily, and talked to some others about it. My information just

previous to the strike led me to suppose that our men were not going to

stand by it, or were withdrawing--that they would not go into the

strike.

Q. Did you get that information from conversation with your men?

A. Yes.

Q. With what class of employés?

A. Conductors and engineers.

Q. What class seemed to be most dissatisfied with the reduction?

A. Generally those of the lower grade of pay--such as brakemen; that

class of men.

Q. When did the first strike occur on your road?

A. I think on Monday morning, the 23d, I believe.

Q. What class of men struck first?

A. I would qualify the other statement by stating that on Saturday,

about ten o'clock, I got a message stating that the shop men had held a

meeting and determined not to work any longer without the ten per cent.

was restored. We went out and called the men together, and Mr. Shinn,

our vice president, made a speech, and explained the situation to them,

and they held a meeting and agreed to stand by the reduction and go to

work again. That was the first difficulty we had. On Monday, I think

was the first refusal, on the part of the train men, to perform

service.

Q. What was said and done to get the men to resume work?

A. On Monday, I went down with an empty train, and turned up Pike

street. There they drew up, and I went on to the shops. We had a street

engine that far. After getting to the Thirty-fourth street station, I

was surprised to see a road engine standing there. I imagined, at once,

there was going to be a difficulty, and I got off the engine and walked

up to the round-house, and there was quite a large number of our men

congregated there. I spoke to them, and asked them what this meant.

None of them made any reply. I told them that the Pennsylvania Railroad

Company had made some arrangement with their men, and that, of course,

we would be governed by any arrangement made on the trunk lines. I told

them they were foolish to go into the strike in the midst of the

excitement--that it would do them no good. I then asked one of the

engineers to go on the express engine standing there, and take her out.

I got no reply. I said: "Boys, I am very sorry you are acting badly,

and if you don't take the engine out, I will have to take her myself."

I got on the engine and took her out, and made a coupling on a train

and started. In the meantime, one of the firemen came down and got on

with me. By the time I got up to the round-house, one of the engineers

came and took the engine from me.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You don't mean took it forcibly?

A. Oh, no. I went back to the men, and by that time quite a crowd was

gathered around, and there was a great deal of excitement. There were a

great many people around that I never saw before. The men said they

were going to call a meeting. I told them as a great many strangers,

apparently, were around, I would sooner they would go away from the

shops, and call their meeting at some other place where they could do

it quietly. They did so, and concluded that they would not go to work.

I succeeded in running all the trains that day that I cared about

running.

Q. How did you accomplish that?

A. By working myself, and by calling on the dispatchers and two or

three of the engineers. The next day a great many strangers were in our

yard, apparently influencing our men. I sent for some of our men, and

told them that I could not understand their conduct, that we had always

endeavored to treat them kindly and squarely, then they said it was not

their fault, that they were forced into it, and were doing what they

did by intimidation; that it would be as much as their lives were worth

to undertake to run those trains. By Tuesday noon I had a great deal of

difficulty in getting the passenger trains to run. The men would be

scared off and desert them. I gave the men notice on Tuesday afternoon,

at three o'clock, that if they wanted the _onus_ of stopping all

the passenger trains on our road, they would have to do it--that we

would not be justified in undertaking to run trains and run the risk of

having an accident occur to them by their refusing to perform their

duty.

Q. What action did they take then?

A. They called a meeting about four o'clock. I sent up to that meeting

and asked them to send me down a man to take out the passengers that

had come into the city that morning, so that we could get them home. I

could not get any person to do that, and had to do it myself. I took

the train out. That evening there was a committee waited on me with a

proposal that they would run two of our trains--would select the crew

to take charge of them. I had been unable to get any protection

whatever either from the military or civil authorities.

Q. Did they carry out that arrangement?

A. I sent a request to the committee of public safety, and had also

gone and seen General Brown, personally, to get some protection for our

shops, and also some ammunition for a company that we had at Verona

guarding our property there. General Brown said he could give me no

assistance, whatever, and so far as his ammunition was concerned, he

had but very few cartridges for his command. He, however, gave me

forty, and an order to gather up the company at Verona, and place them

on duty there. He said he could not allow any troops to be sent out of

the city at all, as he deemed it of more importance to keep them in the

city than to send them on the outskirts. From Mr. Thaw, I learned also,

that the committee of public safety had declined to send any persons.

After the men had made their proposal, I notified them that I would

give them an answer in the morning, and started up to the east end and

saw Mr. Shinn, our vice president, and submitted their proposal to him,

and explained the position we were in--that we could get no protection

either from the civil or military authorities, and that if our men were

willing to work, I thought it would be prudent, on our part, to submit

to the men until such times as the authorities could regain control. He

agreed with me, and authorized me to let the men take charge of the

trains and run them, so as not to stop the United States mails. The

trains were run under the charge of the men for two days--Wednesday and

Thursday. On Friday, we took charge of the trains ourselves again. We

ran the passenger trains on Friday and on Saturday--all we desired to,

and notified the men on Saturday that we proposed to commence running

trains on Monday. And I advised all the men that desired to retain

their positions, and who wanted to go to work again, that if they would

come down on Monday and take their trains they could do so.

Q. How many responded on Monday?

A. We had some difficulty up until two o'clock, and I was compelled to

employ a few new men. After that, the men saw that we were determined,

to start the business on the road again, and the majority came in, and

we had all the men we wanted.

Q. Did you have any assistance from the military at any time?

A. Yes.

Q. When was it?

A. I think on Thursday night. I went down to General Brown, and got an

order from him to bring the company that was at Verona, doing duty

there, to Forty-third street. He also sent a detail of cavalry from the

city, and we took charge of the road on Friday morning, and started our

trains.

Q. I understand it was on Tuesday you made the application to him.

A. On Monday night and Tuesday both.

Q. The troops were refused?

A. Yes.

Q. When was it you made application to the citizen's protective

committee?

A. On Tuesday, Mr. Paul came to me, and told me. He said: "Mr. King,

you are running a great risk. There is a great deal of excitement, and

I have heard a great many threats, not only against you, but your

road." I think it was at nine o'clock in the morning--between nine and

ten. I said to him: "Mr. Paul, you see the condition of things here. If

you can do anything with the committee of public safety, I think you

should go and explain our position to them." He remarked to me that he

had heard some threats among the men on Butler street, about burning

the bridges and destroying property, and, also, some threats against me

personalty, on account of my having been running trains out. The men

were afraid to take them at the station, on account of the threats made

against them. I could not get the trains run out, but as soon as I

would get out of the city limits, an engineer would come forward, and

relieve me. In that way, we were enabled to keep the passenger trains

going.

Q. Who was Mr. Paul?

A. He was a neighbor of mine, living at Verona--of the firm of Metcalf,

Paul & Co.--a member of that firm.

Q. Did you see any of the committee of public safety?

A. No. I was very busy, watching our property, and could not get down

town during the day. Everybody was excited, and there were a good many

outsiders around.

Q. Did Mr. Paul report to you after seeing the committee?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know who he saw of the committee of public safety?

A. He did tell me, but I don't recollect now. I think he went in before

the committee, and made a speech to them, and explained the

situation--at least, that is my recollection.

Q. What kind of assistance was the committee of public safety rendering

at that time?

A. I can't answer that. They were organizing the citizens into

companies, for the purpose of protecting the city.

Q. Mutual protection?

A. Yes. The night I drove out to see Mr. Shinn the whole city appeared

to be patrolled. It was midnight, and I was halted at almost every

corner. The citizens were all apparently out.

Q. Were they armed?

A. Yes.

Q. On Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, were your men all at work?

A. Yes.

Q. What time did the shopmen quit work on Saturday?

A. At the usual hour.

Q. What is that hour?

A. Half past five in the evening. Mr. Shinn was there at half past two

or three, and called the men together, and made a speech. I left then,

and I think they all returned to work.

Q. Did I understand you to say that all the trains, both passenger and

freight, were running on Saturday?

A. Yes; we sent out the night trains on Saturday evening, after the

trouble had commenced.

Q. Was the same order issued by your company that was issued by the

Pennsylvania Railroad Company, as to running double headers?

A. There was no necessity for it on our road.

Q. The only reduction in any way was the ten per cent. reduction, on

the 1st of June, on your road?

A. Yes.

Q. Had you any reason to apprehend any strike, prior to the breaking

out of the one here among your men?

A. No; I had an assurance from quite a number that they would not go

into the strike.

Q. Did you receive any order from Colonel Grey upon Captain Patterson

to furnish you with men?

A. I think that is the order I referred to. I went and saw General

Brown, and he gave me an order to Captain Patterson, to get the men

together and report for duty at Verona shops.

Q. On Tuesday?

A. Yes; I am not sure whether it was Monday night or Tuesday. My

recollection is, it was Monday night, but probably it was Tuesday.

Q. Did he give you the order when you first saw him--the first time he

was called upon?

A. I was to see him two or three times during that period, and I am not

positive about it. I think it was the second time; it may have been the

first. I am not positive.

Q. Did he make any refusal the first time you saw him?

A. I explained to him, that we had a guard of seventy-five men, that we

had organized ourselves at Verona, among whom were some of the Verona

company, but they had no ammunition. I think that the General said to

me, if I could get that company together, he would let it remain, but

he could not send any troops from the city hall.

Q. Did he state his reasons?

A. He deemed it more important to keep the command together than to

separate them.

Q. Did you make any application to the mayor or sheriff of the county

for aid?

A. No; we did not need it until after the riot. It was only from the

desire to protect our men who were willing to work. And I had been

advised on Monday or Tuesday of some incendiary speech, made among the

miners, and I looked for some trouble among them.

Q. Was any of the property of the Allegheny Valley railroad destroyed?

A. Nothing but a baggage car at Union depot and the tracks running in

front of the round-house where we approached Union depot.

Q. Had you any number of cars there at the time the burning occurred?

A. I think we had about two hundred south of Forty-third street.

Q. Were any of them laden with freight?

A. Some with ore; the merchandise cars I removed Sunday night myself.

Word was sent to me that the men were going to burn the freight

station.

Q. Were you interfered with in any way?

A. No.

Q. In the interviews you had with your men before the strike--between

the 1st of June and the strike--what reasons did the men give for their

anticipated strike?

Q. They were dissatisfied with the reduction of wages. There had been

one the previous year or so, and this one coming in that time, made

them very much dissatisfied.

Q. How long before was the other reduction?

A. I think in 1874 or 1875.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Is it not a habit for the men, when their wages are reduced, to

complain?

A. Oh, yes.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was it deemed necessary on the part of the company to make that

reduction?

A. The board of directors thought so.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Had there been a falling off in business?

A. The business was very irregular and spurty. Sometimes we were

running all the trains we could, and then they would drop off. And

rates were not so good as they had been.

Q. From your position, you should judge that was the reason why the

reduction was made?

A. I should judge it was a necessity on the part of the management to

do it, on account of the condition of the trade of the country.

Q. There had been strikes in other parts of the country before this

trouble occurred here--for instance, at Martinsburg?

A. I believe so--from newspaper reports.

Q. Did you have any consultation with the railroad authorities when

this occurred--or did you take any measures to avert this?

A. So far as we were concerned, we did not anticipate it.

Q. You had no anticipation of any trouble on your road?

A. There had been some talk in regard to the train men's union, that it

was for the purpose of getting up a strike. But many of our men, I

understood, were withdrawing from it, and would not lend themselves to

anything of the kind. For that reason I did not anticipate any trouble

among our men.

Q. Do you know whether there was any aid asked of or any consultation

held with the authorities before the strike came about?

A. I cannot answer that. I was not in the city that day.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How did the business that the road was doing for three months prior

to June 1st, when the reduction was made in wages, compare with the

same three months of the year before?

A. My recollection is that our average may have been a little heavier,

but I am not positive about that.

Q. In the three months preceding June, 1877.

A. Yes; our business is spasmodic. It is the oil business. A part of

the year they are doing a good business, and then it drops off to

nothing.

Q. How did the prices for the carrying of freight compare in 1877 with

those in 1876?

A. I cannot answer that. I did not make the rates.

Q. Had there been any change in rates, so far as you know?

A. My impression is that the rates in 1877 were lower than in 1876. I

want to say here, that our shifting engines handling freight on the

street had been interfered with two or three times during Saturday

morning by the crowd going down Twenty-eighth street, and sent back. I

walked out the street, from Eleventh street to Forty-third--between

eleven and twelve o'clock. I saw that there was a very considerable

excitement among the people, and a good deal of feeling. From there I

went up on to Twenty-eighth street, where the strikers were in

possession of the track. I saw but very few people there that I knew.

Some faces were familiar to me. I came back to the office, and got a

report about the action of the men at the shop, and went out there at

half-past two o'clock, and on my return I walked up to the Pennsylvania

railroad shops, and found the troops were moving out. I went in through

the yard, and followed in the rear of the column. After the troops

reached the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street, I got up on a car right

in the rear of them, and I watched their movements--the formation of

the command. The crossings were cleared. I saw a few stones thrown

among the crowd, and I saw a man with a cap on--saw him draw a pistol,

and fire into the troops.

Q. Do you know who it was?

A. No.

Q. Do you know whether he was a railroad man or not?

A. I cannot answer that. When the company struck the crowd on the

crossing there was a recoil like jumping up against a rock. There did

not appear to be any give to it. Then there was a struggle, and some of

the men reached for the muskets, and two or three of the soldiers

pulled back and brought their muskets to a charge, and three or four

shots were fired.

Q. By the troops?

A. Yes; and then there appeared to be a volley from the entire

command--a rattling fire--starting at the front rank and breaking back

to the rear.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What do you mean by the entire command?

A. The head commenced firing, and then it run back on the wings. It was

an irregular roll of musketry. I got off the car, and fell back after

the firing ceased. My position was somewhat exposed.

Q. Did you hear any command to fire?

A. I do not think there was any command given.

Q. You were in a position to hear it?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How many shots were fired by the crowd before the militia began to

fire?

A. I only saw one. I saw some stones thrown.

Q. Was a volley of stones thrown in among the militia, or was it

scattering?

A. Scattering.

Q. From what point were the stones thrown?

A. They appeared to come from the hill side--in the vicinity of the

watch-box, near the crossing.

Q. What was the effect of the firing of the stones among the

militia--was there any damage done to life or limb?

A. I noticed a sergeant of one of the Philadelphia companies with a bad

cut on the face. He came back with his face shattered. The thing came

very quick.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you hear any command to cease firing?

A. I did not. I went to the rear of the cars I was standing on, and the

soldiers were breaking back in my direction, and I did not notice what

was going on in front after that. There was just one volley. The

soldiers just emptied their muskets.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What was the result of the volley?

A. A panic on the hill side--every person ran from the hill side and

the crossing.

Q. It dispersed the crowd, did it?

A. Yes.

Q. In what direction did they retire?

A. In all directions.

Q. What became of the soldier's then?

A. I left the crossing, and went from there to the telegraph office,

and wrote some messages to the freight depot and shops, directing them

to put on a heavy guard during the night. While I was there Mr. Watt

came in, and told me that the mob had started for the arsenal. I

telegraphed to the commandant to take care of our shops, and advised

him to be on his guard. The message was delivered within five or ten

minutes after it was sent.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Was any actual violence used by the strikers to prevent the trains

running on your road?

A. Our men were threatened.

Q. But there was no actual violence?

A. No.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. When you were running that engine yourself, what was the mob

composed of--men that had been in your employ, or in the employ of the

Pennsylvania Railroad Company, or tramps? Describe the crowd?

A. They were strangers to me. I do not know them.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. I understood you to say that application was made to the civil

authorities. What do you mean by that?

A. I did not say that application had been made to the civil

authorities.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. If you were present when the first firing occurred, I wish you would

give us a description of it--what it was started by, and what the

condition of the crowd was at that time?

A. I was at the corner of Penn and Twelfth streets when the alarm was

struck, 10.40 o'clock by city time, or a few minutes later. I saw a

flash in the sky and heard the alarm, and hurried on up Penn street. I

knew what it meant. There were some oil cars stored in the Pennsylvania

yard at the time, and I saw it was the flash of an oil fire. I think

about Twentieth street the fire commenced. I then went about a square,

and I heard a torpedo explode, and I got to the next corner and saw the

fire on Penn street, and on the side street.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. A railroad torpedo, you mean?

A. Yes; it made a noise similar to that. The engines were driving fast

at the time. I went to the vicinity of the coke yards, and remained

there until half past two or three o'clock in the morning.

Q. Did you go with the engines during this time?

A. No, I was walking. When I got up there, they were dropping the cars

down to the cars that had already been set on fire--quite a crowd was

around. The burning of the cars appeared to have commenced. People were

passing with their arms full of dry goods and things of that kind. As

fast as the cars were dropped down, they were set fire to. Every few

minutes there would be a panic among them, and they would flee like

wolves or sheep, but seeing that there was no danger, they would come

back again. I remained there until three o'clock, and then walked to

the shops to see if everything was quiet there. After I got there, I

got a message from Colonel McKee, of the Oil City command, stating that

he was on his way, but had no ammunition. I telegraphed to General

Latta, and asked him where it could be got at some point on the road,

before reaching the city. I did not get any answer. The wires were

interrupted between the city and our place, and at four and a half

o'clock, I started down to Union depot, to hunt up General Latta.

Q. On Sunday morning?

A. Yes, sir; I met a great many people coming from the vicinity of the

Pennsylvania yards, all having more or less plunder. A great many of

them were in liquor. I got to Union depot, I believe, at six and a half

o'clock. I went up to General Latta, after getting to Union depot, and

he told me he had some ammunition, and would give me some after a bit,

for Colonel McKee's command. He appeared to be very much exercised over

the condition of the troops at the round-house at that time. A short

time after, Captain Breck came in and reported that General Brinton had

broken cover and started for the country. I think he told General Latta

and one or two others sitting in the hotel at the time. The general and

the captain went up stairs, and after that I did not see them. I

remained in the vicinity of our shops and the Union depot until twelve

o'clock Sunday, and then went up among the mob. I went to see what the

character of the crowd was, and to see if I knew any of them. There

appeared to me to be about seventy-five or one hundred and fifty men

that were organized. One man, particularly, I noticed with black

whiskers with a stick in his hand that appeared to be the leader. They

would go on and destroy a lot of cars and then meet apparently to

consult. He would wave his stick, the mob would follow, and do as he

directed. I saw them setting fire to the cars there. Such a hard

looking set of people I never saw before. I did not recognize anybody

that I had ever seen. Quite a number of them appeared to be in liquor.

They had cleaned out everything down as far as what is called the

"brewery switches."

Q. About what street is that?

A. About Fifteenth or Sixteenth street. One of them got up on a car and

made a speech, and declared that, as near as I could judge from their

actions--I could not hear their words--that the Union depot would be

the next point affected. Two cars loaded with plunder were got into

position and set fire to, and shoved up over the hill and down to the

other cars on the other side. As fast as the gang appeared to make an

advance, the plunderers kept ahead of them.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did these men appear to be railroad men?

A. No, sir; they were not railroad men. They looked to me like roughs

of the lowest description. They had the vilest countenances I ever saw.

One man, I noticed, was so intoxicated that he could hardly stand on

his legs, but he would go in among the cars and do what a sober man

could not do.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you make any effort to find out who the black-whiskered man was?

A. I recognized him as the leader of the party, and I would know his

face again. If I should ever see him, I would recognize him. They

appeared determined to drop the burning cars into the depot, and I went

down and threw an engine off the track, and blocked the track so that

they could not do that. A great many people were around at the time,

and it was thought that by the time they reached the depot they would

not have the courage to come in there. The police were there, and I did

not think that they would undertake to fire it.

Q. How many police were there at that time?

A. Fifteen or twenty. They retired right in front of the mob.

Q. When they reached Union depot, how many did the mob number, that

were actually engaged in the burning?

A. I cannot answer that. A great many people were around in the

vicinity, and in the streets, and on the hill side, and all around--a

great many people were there.

Q. You spoke of about seventy-five or a hundred?

A. They were followed by an army of plunderers. This gang appeared to

be the center, and as they went along, the plunderers demolished

everything that came in their way. After they found they could not drop

any cars into the depot they walked right into the office, at the north

end of the depot, and knocked the windows out, and presently there was

a flash there, and in a few minutes the shed was on fire. After the

depot was fired, I walked to Forty-third street to see how things were

going. I returned after the elevator took fire. I saw from that

position that it was on fire, and I commenced to have grave doubts

whether they could check it--whether they could prevent the lower end

of the town from burning.

Q. Did this gang of men fire property below the depot, or did that

catch from the depot?

A. I was not in the vicinity of the depot when the property on the

other side was fired, and I cannot answer that, nor when the elevator

was fired.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. When you came back did you see this same gang?

A. The crowd was scattered then. The elevator was on fire, and the Pan

Handle yards were on fire. I got word then that they were going to

attack our property, and I started right to the shops, and took an

engine and removed what property we had.

* * * * *

David Garrett, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the Twentieth ward of Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your occupation?

A. I am an assistant train master.

Q. Of the Pennsylvania railroad?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you occupy that position in July last?

A. Yes.

Q. State what knowledge you have as to any dissatisfaction among the

employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in regard to wages prior

to the 19th of July last?

A. I have no knowledge more than any person would have who has his

wages reduced. The men spoke about the reduction of their wages, that

it was a little hard. They talked to me about the order. I told them

that we were all in the same fix, and tried to point out to them that

the reduction was general--that the business of the company had become

reduced, and I supposed that they thought it was necessary to make a

reduction. Most of the men that I talked to on the subject seemed to be

satisfied. They didn't feel good about it, but they didn't say that

they would offer any resistance to a reduction, or that they would

strike, or anything of that sort.

Q. That was after the ten per cent. reduction?

A. Yes; they talked about it some. Of course we had heard about the

troubles on the Baltimore and Ohio, and had heard about the Trainmen's

Union, and also heard about men withdrawing from that, and also about

its being bursted up. What I think the cause of the trouble was the

very light business that was doing. Then in June, when the reduction

was made, we found we had a large surplus of men, and we reduced the

force to suit about the volume of business doing then. In doing that,

we had regard to the condition of the men. Those who were married we

tried to retain, and those who had been a long time in the service we

tried to retain, and occasionally if we had a man who could get along

at something else, or who was in particularly good circumstances, we

would discharge him, in order to keep some man who was not so well

favored. That threw some men out of employment. Then on the 16th of

July--that was the morning on which the new arrangement was to go into

effect--the running of double-headers. That is, instead of taking two

trains from Pittsburgh to Derry, with seventeen cars, we would run one

train with thirty-four cars.

Q. Was the order issued on the 16th?

A. It was to take effect on the 19th. The order had been issued some

time previously, and posted on the bulletin boards where the men could

see it. When this order was posted up, the men would come, and I saw

them looking at the bulletin boards. No one expressed any

dissatisfaction. There had been some talk among the men that it would

dispense with the services of quite a number, which, of course, we

admitted it would, and the more so, from the fact that while formerly

we were running men from Conemaugh, the company found it inconvenient

to run trains to Conemaugh, and were making Derry the dividing point.

We were running from Pittsburgh to Derry and back again. That would

give the smaller portion of the run to the men on this end of the road,

and, of course, a smaller number of men were required. But to fix that,

the day previous to the strike I went out to Derry, and there had a

consultation with Mr. Edward Pitcairn, who is the train master at

Derry. We saw the difficulty, and tried to provide for it, by taking

seven or eight crews, of four men to a crew, to run between Derry and

Altoona. As we were getting along with a less number of men, at the

other end they would require a greater number of men. That was on

Wednesday, the day preceding the riot. We had the thing all arranged,

as I thought. I came into Pittsburgh the next morning about nine

o'clock, when one of the dispatchers told me on my arrival, that one of

the trains had not gone out. I asked him the reason, and he said that

the brakemen had refused to go out on the train. I asked him the number

of men he had asked to go out, and he said quite a number--eighteen or

twenty, perhaps more. I told him I would go out and talk with the men

about the matter. I felt about that, that we had a large surplus of

men, and if only a portion of the men were insubordinate and refused to

run, it would relieve us from embarrassment. I had no idea that it

would extend beyond that. I went out and found eighteen or twenty men,

and asked them if they had any objections to go out. Some just declined

to go out on double trains, and others said nothing. Of the men

present, I couldn't get any to go. The conductors were willing to go. I

conferred then with Mr. McCabe, and he suggested that we should get

some of the yard men to man the trains. We called on several of them,

and finally got three to go as brakemen. Preparation was made to start

the train. I walked some distance in advance of the engine that was to

take the train, and met some men coming along that seemed to be

somewhat demonstrative, and among them one man very violent--one now

undergoing his trial. He remarked to me--I said something about the

switches--I cannot remember now what--and he remarked to me that no

trains would go out, or something to that effect. I asked why, and he

said that they had resolved not to let anything go out. I remonstrated

with him, and said: "Hice, you have a perfect right to refuse to go out

if you don't want to go out, but you have no right to interfere with

others." He said it had got to be a question of bread or blood, and

that they were going to resist. I left him, and then came to attend to

some other matter towards the switches. I heard something behind me and

turned around, and saw a considerable confusion. I saw links and pins

being hurled at these yard men on the train. I saw one of them struck.

I saw a link or pin falling from his person, and saw it hit him. I also

saw men going on the engine. I came forward then and found no person on

the engine at all, and found that the men we had expected to run the

train all driven away. I found that we were defeated in getting the

train out. It was not worth while to parley with the men at all. We had

no force at all--no police at all--or not very strong. I went to the

office of Mr. Watt, who was acting in the place of Mr. Pitcairn, who

was absent, and it was suggested that inasmuch as a large quantity of

live stock was at East Liberty, and it was important to get that away,

that I should go there and anticipate any power that might be coming

west, and put the cars away, and take the power and send the live stock

away from East Liberty. I immediately did that, and went there on the

first train I met. I went to Torrens, and at East Liberty I met a coal

train, and I stopped the train and went to the conductor and told him

what I wanted. I told him to put his cars in there and to take a train

of live stock from East Liberty. I didn't tell him anything about the

trouble in Pittsburgh. He went away and conferred with some person, and

then came and told me that he declined to do that. I left him go. I

then went to Torrens, not wishing to lose any time, and while there

received a message from the superintendent's office telling me that two

engines were on the way there and would soon arrive--two engines

westward. I then received another message to make haste, that Hice and

his crowd had started for Torrens to interfere with the live stock. I

made all the haste I could. I went down to Gray's switches, and there

waited the arrival of the two engines, took the cars from them, crossed

the engines coming west over to the other track, adjusted the switches,

and went on down. When I got down there, Hice and his party had just

arrived.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. How did they get there?

A. I don't know. The distance is not very great. I don't know what time

they started, and I don't know by what route. I rather think they

walked up the track to Torrens. At that time, when we got back, the

party was there and surrounding the engines. I got up on one of the

engines and asked the engine man what was wrong. He said he couldn't

take the stock. They said that their lives had been threatened if they

moved the stock. I telegraphed to Pittsburgh, stating the situation of

affairs, and that we couldn't do anything at all without we had more

protection, and Pittsburgh told me, after a bit, that more police were

coming--that there would be fifteen of them. They had made a

requisition, I understood, upon the mayor, and that fifteen police were

to come up. They were to come up on the Atlantic express, I think.

About the time the Atlantic express was due, I went out to where the

engines were standing, and backed up against the stock. I didn't tell

the crowd or any person that I had information of any assistance

coming, but I just remarked to them that we proposed now to commence

moving that stock, and that those who were in no way concerned with the

railroad, or who had no interest in the matter, except as

lookers-on--that I would take it as a favor if they would retire, and

give us room to work. There was a large crowd there. Just at that time,

this same man Hice called out, they are going to bring the militia--the

Duquesne Grays. He immediately called out and said, I want four good

men. They came up to him, and he said, I want you to go to Pittsburgh

and get out two thousand mill men. Four young men started--a couple of

them were, I think, our own men, and a couple were not in our service.

I can't say who they were. One little thing occurred before this

conversation with Hice--before the Atlantic express came. I had gone

some distance east to the telegraph office, and I found Hice there, and

I got into conversation again about it, and I told him: "Hice, be

careful not to do anything you will be sorry for." He said it is a

question of bread or blood, and said, if I go to the penitentiary I can

get bread and water, and that is about all I can get now. I saw it was

no use to talk to him, and I left him. When the express came along it

didn't have the force on that I expected. It had some men, but not

enough for the emergency. A great many men came up on the train. We

found that we couldn't move the stock. Mr. Watt had come up, and I

called his attention to the situation. I suggested that we should move

some of the stock by deceiving the men. That I would get two engines,

and say I couldn't move the stock, and I might as well go on back, and

that under pretense of shifting the stock on to the siding he should

get it past the crowd, and run it to some point on the road--to Spring

Hill, and that there I would take it with those two engines, and that,

in the meantime, if he couldn't do that, that I would couple to a train

of cars that had been brought from Wilkinsburg in the morning, and take

it as far as Spring Hill, and if the stock didn't come would take it on

through. After we started from Torrens with the engines, I told the

conductor and men what I wanted to do--to couple on to the train at

Wilkinsburg. The men seemed to have a little fear that the crowd would

overtake us before we could get the train out. However, I told them to

hurry up, and I succeeded in getting it out. We took it on as far as

Spring Hill, and, while the engines were taking fuel and water, I told

them to remain until I came back and gave a signal, and I walked on to

Walls to ascertain whether or not the stock was coming. When I got to

Walls I learned from Mr. Watt the stock was coming. I then went back,

and, when the stock arrived, coupled on, and sent it out. That was the

last train moved, and it was done by deceiving the men. I then returned

to Pittsburgh. It was pretty near night. I found the crowd at Torrens

was indignant at us deceiving them in moving the stock. Some of the

stock couldn't be moved, and had to be unloaded. I then came to

Pittsburgh, and I found that while I had been away that they had a

great deal of trouble in the Pittsburgh yard. But I don't know anything

that occurred in Pittsburgh that day from the time I left until six or

seven o'clock that night. But I remained there then all that night.

Q. As train master, tell us how the traffic on your road for the three

months prior to June 1, compared with the traffic during the same time

of the year previous?

A. I can give my impression, that it was very much below the

corresponding period of the year previous. My impression is, it was

below. Of course, in that, I may be mistaken.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You judge from the number of trains and the amount of stuff you

hauled?

A. Yes; our trade is peculiar. There are times when the through freight

may be heavy, but at points east of Pittsburgh, the coal and other

local business may be very light. We will start from Pittsburgh with an

unusually heavy business, but it won't aggregate nearly as much when it

arrives at Altoona, as on other occasions, when we start from

Pittsburgh with a comparatively light business. I was present at the

time of the firing of the troops, but about that, what I can say is

about what Mr. King has said.

Q. If you were present at that time, however, you may state what you

saw?

A. I was at Union depot when the troops arrived. I went to the outer

depot, two blocks west of Twenty-eighth street. We kept ourselves

advised by wire as to about the time the troops would move from Union

depot to Twenty-eighth street. We were expecting that they would clear

the track, and that then, if possible, we would get the trains started.

We had a crew in readiness to go just as soon as they got protection

enough to start. I remained on some gondolas there until the troops,

with the Gatling gun, passed along up the track. Then I followed up. I

didn't intend to go very close, but got much nearer than I had

intended, and so got near enough to see the movements of the troops. I

saw them form on Twenty-eighth street into what is called a square, and

saw the confusion that Mr. King spoke about. I heard the shots very

soon after that. I thought at first it was blank cartridges, but soon

learned such was not the case.

Q. Have you any idea as to how many were hurt?

A. Seven, eight, or ten--and some killed.

Q. You saw this yourself?

A. I didn't see any myself. I saw them carrying people away very soon

afterwards. I saw afterwards the man that Mr. King mentioned as having

been hit in the face by a stone before the firing. While I was in the

superintendent's office, after the firing, a report came that they were

going to attack the arsenal, and also the superintendent's office. I

afterwards went home and got my supper and returned. When returning,

the mass of people at Twenty-eighth street was enormous. They were

solid on both sides of the track. By the way, some soldiers were there,

enough to keep the men off the track. I had intended to go up and walk

to the superintendent's office, but found I couldn't do it with safety.

I thought they possibly might want me, and I intended to go. I went to

Union depot, and made an arrangement to get to the office. After that,

I learned that the military had charge of everything. I staid at Union

depot until ten o'clock, and left on the last train that went out. That

was on Saturday night. About three or four o'clock in the morning I was

awakened by a great deal of noise and hallowing, and saw a great many

roughs passing my place, and heard wagons passing.

Q. Did they seem to be coming in wagons from a distance?

A. Yes; various wagons went past my house. It was three or four o'clock

in the morning. It was getting daylight; and during all that day the

people were carrying plunder past our house; and those same wagons

returned during the afternoon loaded. I remained at home on Sunday, for

the reason that they said they were going to commence at East Liberty

and burn everything to Pittsburgh, and I thought that possibly my house

might be burned.

Q. If you had succeeded in starting a train from Pittsburgh, would it

have been able to get ten miles away.

A. All the trains that we started previous to, say, nine or nine and a

half o'clock on Thursday, went through--went through all right.

Q. What do you mean by through?

A. To the destination, wherever it was.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. During this time, before the military arrived, was there any

considerable effort made on the part of the police to protect you and

your men and property?

A. No, sir; nothing at all equal to the emergency.

Q. What number of policemen were there in force, at any time, to

protect you?

A. I cannot say that I ever saw a dozen. A small force of police were

brought to the outer depot on Thursday, but it was after I had gone to

Torrens, and I remained away the remainder of the day. It was after the

time that we were trying to get out another train, when the men refused

to let it go, and when Mr. Watt was struck.

Q. What were the police doing all this time?

A. I suppose the police were too weak in numbers.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. When you saw them they were inadequate to the emergency?

A. Yes; altogether.

Q. Up to Saturday night, any train that could have been started would

have gone through to its destination?

A. No; only on Thursday. After Thursday, I think, no freight train

could have gone through, because all the trains were stopped; and even

the passenger trains were stopped at East Liberty and Lawrenceville.

Q. From the information that the railroad authorities had, they could

not have run trains through to their destination?

A. I don't think so, after Thursday. The men allowed our trains to come

west, but as fast as they came west they prevented them from going

east.

Adjourned until Monday morning, at ten o'clock.

PITTSBURGH, MONDAY, _February 11, 1878, 10 o'clock_, A.M.

ORPHANS' COURT ROOM.

Pursuant to adjournment the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock,

A.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

* * * * *

Charles McGovern, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. On Boyd street, in the Sixth ward, Pittsburgh.

Q. Were you on the police force of the city of Pittsburgh, in last

July?

A. I was.

Q. In what capacity?

A. I was a detective.

Q. Were you in the city on the 19th day of July?

A. I was. That was Thursday.

Q. Were you employed by the mayor as a special detective?

A. I was serving under his administration.

Q. Had you any communication with the mayor on that day with reference

to the disturbance of the peace?

A. I had.

Q. State what it was?

A. A little after eleven o'clock on Thursday, the 19th day of July, Mr.

Watt came to the mayor's office and had a conversation with the mayor,

and after he was through the mayor called me in. It was my week in the

office. We took our turns in the office. He instructed me to gather

what men I could find and go out to Twenty-eighth street--that there

was some trouble with the railroad employés out there on account of a

strike. The week before that our police force had been reduced from two

hundred and thirty-six men to one hundred and twenty, I think. That

left us without any men in the day time at all, except six men that

were employed in the office as detectives, and one man on Fifth street,

and two specials, I believe; but on this day it happened that the men

that had been dropped from the rolls were in the City hall for the

purpose of getting their money. I told the mayor that I could not get a

sufficient number of men to go out there to amount to anything, if

there was any serious trouble, but that a number of these men were

there, and that I could raise a squad from them if necessary. So

failing to find the necessary number of our men--who were in bed at

this time because they were on duty at night--I gathered ten men

belonging to the force that had been dropped, and started out to the

Union depot. Mr. Watt met us there and took us out to the crossing at

Twenty-eighth street. He had some two or three of his own men there.

When I got out there he told me what we were brought there for--that

there was a strike in progress, and he anticipated some trouble with

the employés--that is they would likely resist the running of trains.

We were moved out to Twenty-eighth street, and at Twenty-eighth street,

or a little this side of the street--that is, west--there is a switch.

He told me he was going to move the trains, and I sent the men to

protect those switches, and to see they were not interfered with by the

strikers. I divided the men into two squads, and sent one squad to the

western switch and took charge of the other myself.

Q. How many men were there in a squad?

A. Five; I had ten men and myself. Quite a number of the people there

were boys, and there didn't appear to be much excitement just then.

Q. What time was that?

A. A little before twelve o'clock.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What were they, railroad men?

A. Yes; a number of them. Some I knew.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Could you mention their names?

A. One I recollect now. I knew him to be a railroad man. I had a

conversation with him. It was Samuel Muckle. I talked with him. The

leading men of them seemed to be disposed to keep the peace. They

didn't want any trouble with the police. We didn't anticipate much

trouble then.

Q. How many were there?

A. One hundred were there, but a number of those were spectators, who

had just come from curiosity.

Q. How many were engaged in the strike?

A. I can only judge of the number actively engaged in the strike, from

the number of persons that interfered with the first arrest that we

made. That occurred when Mr. Watt attempted to open the switch to let

the train out. That is where the first trouble commenced. As soon as he

did that, a man named McCall, and another man named Davis, both of whom

have been tried in the courts since--they jumped on to the switch, and

one of them struck Mr. Watt. When I saw that, I was at the other

switch. I ran down, and after considerable trouble, we succeeded in

arresting McCall and in taking him down to the watch-house. Then

probably there were fifteen or twenty persons that appeared to take an

active part in preventing McCall from being arrested. They seemed to be

very anxious to have us let him go. There were a number of stones

thrown, and some of my officers were hit. I saw a number of stones

thrown, and it was principally the work of boys. The railroad men

wanted to persuade us to let him go, but we finally got him down to the

watch-house. He resisted very stoutly. None of the railroad men

attempted to use violence at that time.

Q. You placed him in the lock-up?

A. Yes; at the Twelfth ward station.

Q. How many of your men remained there on the ground?

A. After we locked him up we came right back there again.

Q. What occurred then?

A. Mr. Watt left then and went to get more men. Along about one

o'clock, I judge, there were some five or six men came, in charge of

officer White, of the mayor's force, and went on out to East Liberty,

and my impression is that Mr. Watt went with them.

Q. How many men were with officer White?

A. Five or six men--also men dropped from the rolls. Then three or

four--probably more--there may have been ten--came to my assistance and

remained with me at the crossing.

Q. How long did you remain at the crossing?

A. Until about three o'clock. In the meantime there did not appear to

be any effort made on the part of the railroad authorities to move any

more trains after this assault at the switch, and my impression was at

the time that they had given the matter up just then. There seemed to

be a general disposition on the part of the railroad employés--the men

not on strike--to rest easy, as it were. They didn't want to work. I

heard the men talking with each other. They did not appear to make any

effort to work. Those not engaged in the strike actively--they seemed

to be in sympathy with those in the strike.

Q. What was the condition of the crowd there from one o'clock up to

three o'clock?

A. It kept on increasing.

Q. How was it as to being demonstrative or boisterous?

A. There was no trouble there after this assault on Mr. Watt, because

no effort was made on the part of the railroad officials to run out

trains.

Q. Where did you go when you left there?

A. I telegraphed to the chief, in town, from the Twelfth ward station,

that things were at a stand-still; that there was no attempt on the

part of the railroad men to run out trains, and that the men were still

stationed at the crossing, and he instructed me to place the men in

charge of officer Fowler, and to come in to the central office. I did

so after three o'clock.

Q. Did you go out again?

A. Not that afternoon.

Q. Did you receive any further instructions?

A. Not that day. The men remained there that day and night--all night.

Q. Were you present when Mr. Watt came to consult with the mayor?

A. I was in the office.

Q. Did you hear the conversation?

A. No.

Q. What did Mr. Watt tell you that time in the presence of the mayor?

A. I do not think the mayor was present at that time. It was in regard

to what I was going out there for. He told me a few of the men were on

a strike, and that they would probably undertake to interfere with the

running of the trains, but he did not anticipate any serious trouble.

He thought that a few men would be sufficient. He did not think it

would amount to anything, and said that the presence of a few men would

stop the whole thing. He looked on it very lightly at that time.

Q. After Mr. Watt went away it was that Mayor McCarthy gave you

instructions?

A. Yes.

Q. What did he tell you to do?

A. He told me to collect as many men as I could get.

Q. Of the force on duty?

A. There was no force on duty.

Q. From what source were you to collect them?

A. He told me to get as many men as I could get. He meant the office

men. But they were only on duty at night, and at this time none of them

were about except the chief of detectives, Mr. O'Mara, who was busy, I

believe. I so reported to the mayor. I told him I could get a number of

the men who were dropped from the rolls. He told me to go ahead and get

them.

Q. How many of those men were there then?

A. I suppose there may have been twenty or twenty-five.

Q. You selected ten of them?

A. I thought that would be a sufficient number on account of what Mr.

Watt had told me.

Q. You could have got more if you had wanted them?

A. Yes; I did get more afterwards. I think ten more came out. Of course

we could not get those men and bring them into service as our men in

actual service, because those men had been dropped from the rolls, and

it was only those willing to go on duty or not.

Q. But plenty of them were willing to go?

A. Yes; they showed a willingness to go.

Q. When you got to Twenty-eighth street, how many men were engaged

there then in preventing the trains from moving?

A. The first intimation I had of any men, who were going to prevent

trains from running, was when Mr. Watt was assaulted, and then I should

judge that those men actively engaged, numbered, probably, ten or

fifteen--that seemed to be the leaders.

Q. When you undertook to arrest McCall, how many men took his part?

A. I suppose ten or fifteen of those men gathered around us, and wanted

us to let him go.

Q. Did you arrest all of those who undertook to take McCall's part?

A. They did not use any violence at all. McCall appealed to them, and

asked them not to allow him to be arrested, that they were there for

the purpose of preventing the trains from running, and that they were

not surely going to allow him to go to the watch-house, but there was

not a man of them that attempted to interfere with the officers. The

only interference was some stones thrown from the hill-side around. I

saw some of them thrown, and most of them by boys.

Q. I understand, after you returned from the lock-up, you found the

crowd still assembled at Twenty-eighth street?

A. Yes.

Q. How large was it then?

A. It was increased then, I estimate, to about the number of two

hundred people, women, and children, and boys, and men.

Q. What were they doing at that time?

A. They were just standing around there chatting and talking among

themselves. The excitement was still increasing.

Q. No effort was made to start the trains from that time until three

o'clock?

A. When those men came from the office--the second force--Mr. Watt went

up to Torren's station. I believe there was no person there that

appeared to make any effort to do anything. Mr. Fox, the chief of the

Pennsylvania railroad police was there, and I was under his

instructions to do anything he wanted done. From that time, until I

left, no effort was made on their part to run out trains east. There

was an attempt made after I left to run trains out, but of course I did

not see that.

Q. Did you command the crowd to disperse?

A. We undertook to keep the crowd off the tracks, but our force was not

sufficient. As soon as we would get one track cleared, they would come

in on the other. It would have required at two or three o'clock--it

would have required a hundred men to clear the tracks, and do it

effectually, and I did not have the necessary force to do it with. They

appeared to loiter around there talking, and the crowd kept on

increasing.

Q. Did you get any further instructions after you returned to the city

and reported to the chief of police?

A. I got no further instructions, I remember, from the chief; he

instructed me to turn the force over to officer Fowler, and report at

the city hall.

Q. Do you know, of your own knowledge, what were the movements of the

police force there during the balance of the day?

A. During the balance of the day the force was increased to, I think,

at Twenty-eighth street, thirty men--twenty-five or thirty men--during

the evening. They remained on duty all night.

Q. Was there any effort made to run out trains during the afternoon of

Thursday?

A. I believe there was.

Q. Were you not on an engine, and were you not driven off?

A. I was not; the officers can be got here that went on that engine.

Q. Will you tell us who they were?

A. Officer Saul Coulston and officer Robert Fowler.

Q. Did you have any further connection with the movements of the

police?

A. Not in the capacity of commander or leader.

Q. Were you present at any of the disturbances after that?

A. I went through it all, backward and forward, around the city, in the

capacity of an officer.

Q. Were the police, to your knowledge, reinforced in the morning of the

20th--Friday morning.

A. No, sir; the police force was not reinforced until Tuesday

morning--the following Tuesday--that is, were not organized. Then the

regular force was filled up and organized by the committee of safety.

But a number of the men who were called on on Monday and Sunday

responded. But the regular organization did not take place until

Tuesday.

Q. They responded whenever the calls were made?

A. A number of them responded on Sunday, after the fire was going on.

Q. Was there any difficulty, so far as you know, in reinforcing the

police force?

A. I know, from my own experience, that there was considerable

difficulty in bringing the men dropped from the rolls when there was no

trouble,--in bringing them to the front after the trouble commenced. A

great many of them objected to going on duty.

Q. Why?

A. I suppose they looked on it in this way. I inferred this from the

tone of their conversation--that they were discharged--that the

councils had thought proper to dispense with their services when there

was no trouble, and that, when they were in trouble they did not

propose to put their heads into the halter. I know one of them left my

squad--or two of them. One of them did not reflect that he might be

taken to where he would get hurt or get hit with a stone. He left and

the other left.

Q. What reason did he give?

A. He simply left.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. These men were not organized at all?

A. They had been dropped from the rolls the week previous. They were

not bound in any way to the city.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did not a demand have to be made on them?

A. No, sir; I simply told them. Those that wanted to go, fell into

line, and marched out as volunteers.

By Mr. Means:

Q. They could leave as soon as they wanted?

A. Yes; the same as any other citizens. They were not under pay--not

under pay at all.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you not have the right from the mayor to demand them to go with

you?

A. I did not know I had a right any more than I could command you to

assist me.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you get such instructions from the mayor?

A. At the time we went out we did not expect any such trouble.

Q. But did the mayor give you instructions to demand them to go with

you?

A. He did not think of it, and I did not either. I thought that the

presence, as Mr. Watt told me--that the presence of five or six men

would have the desired effect.

Q. Did you make any report to the mayor, during the afternoon?

A. I reported to the chief of police.

Q. That is the only report you made?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was he?

A. Philip Demmel.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you know of an order, given by the mayor to his officers, to

compel men to serve on the police force, during those troubles?

A. I do not know of any order of that kind. I know of orders given by

the mayor to summon all the men that had been dropped from the rolls,

and to get them organized with the men we had, and go on duty. A number

of them responded. That was on Sunday.

Q. What do you mean by summoned?

A. Just notified them.

Q. Compelling them to serve?

A. I did not understand it as compulsory at all. I did not think it

was.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. It was simply a call for volunteers to go out?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you state to them anything about their pay--as to how they would

be paid?

A. I do not know as I stated anything to them probably the first day,

but the understanding was after they got out there that Mr. Watt was

responsible for the pay of these men.

Q. The mayor did not make any call on the night police to go out there

at all on Thursday?

A. Not on Thursday. The night men were not there.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. There was no effort made, that you know of, to get the night men out

there?

A. There was no apparent necessity at that time. The night force went

on duty on Friday night, and they remained on duty in and around the

city hall until the trouble was all over.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What do you mean by that?

A. Going out in squads from the city hall wherever they were required

to go.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did they serve during the day on Friday?

A. I do not recollect that they did. I cannot say that.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did they serve during the day Saturday?

A. I think they were on duty from Friday night until the trouble was

all over. That is my impression. I cannot be positive, however.

Q. The night force numbered one hundred and twenty?

A. One hundred and sixteen men we had left for the whole city.

Q. Were any of that number detailed to go to the depot or to that

section of the city?

A. On Thursday?

Q. Yes; or on Friday or on Saturday?

A. The men were on duty continually Friday, and on Saturday all the men

were out.

Q. Where?

A. In the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and along where the

trouble was.

Q. How many were at Twenty-eighth street on Saturday?

A. I cannot say.

Q. How many on Friday?

A. That I cannot say. I suppose the chief would know.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You were on duty that day?

A. I was on duty continuously from that time until the trouble was

over.

Q. When you talked with those men, what reason did they give you. You

have said you talked with one?

A. They assigned as a reason for striking that it was on account of the

double-headers, slim pay, and so forth. That the men were starving, and

all that kind of thing, and that now they proposed to reduce the force,

and compel one crew to run two trains, and they did not propose to do

it. Various reasons were assigned.

Q. Did he express any intention to use violence?

A. He did not. He and a number of the others had considerable influence

over the men, and no violence was to be used at all. It seemed that the

men not in the strike were in sympathy with those that were, and that

no trains would be run out.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. When was this?

A. It was after Mr. Watt was struck.

Q. Did he take any part with them?

A. No, sir.

Q. How many men were arrested in that crowd on Thursday in the vicinity

of the trouble?

A. McCall was the only one I arrested. I left about three o'clock.

While I was there no other act was committed by any person in the

party, and no effort was made by the railroad to run out trains, and we

were simply there under the instruction of the railroad men.

Q. You do not know of any others being arrested that day in that

vicinity?

A. I do not.

Q. Nor on Friday in that vicinity to your knowledge?

A. On Friday morning, I think, the military was out with the sheriff

and his posse.

Q. But answer my question?

A. No.

Q. On Saturday?

A. On Saturday, no, not on Saturday. The military were in charge of the

railroad property on Saturday.

Q. Did you or any other officer that you know of have a warrant in his

hands for the arrest of some ten or twelve men?

A. Yes; I had a warrant for the arrest of ten or twelve men that were

interfering with the railroad employés.

Q. You had the names of those parties?

A. Before the warrants were served they were re-called from me.

Q. By whom?

A. The information was taken away by the attorneys of the railroad

company.

Q. Did they recall them?

A. Yes.

Q. From you?

A. Not the warrants; but I was notified by the mayor that the

information was taken from the office, and that the matter was placed

in the hands of the sheriff.

Q. Did he instruct you to return the warrants?

A. The warrants were null and void then when the information was taken

away. The warrants were transferred to the sheriff.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Did you hear anybody make any threats against the railroad officers?

A. Well, Davis jumped on the switch, and swore that no trains should go

out, that he would die in his tracks first. Those were the only threats

I heard on Thursday.

Q. Were those directed against the railroad officers or any of their

employés?

A. The threats were against the running out of the trains.

Q. Do you know anybody going to the officers of the Pennsylvania

Railroad Company, and advising them to leave the city for fear that

they would suffer violence?

A. Not to my own knowledge.

Q. You did not hear anybody make such threats?

A. No.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. When did you first get the warrants for the arrest of those

men--what day was it?

A. It seems to me the warrants were issued on Thursday afternoon or

Friday morning, but I am not positive about that. I can refer to the

warrants and see.

Q. How long did you hold them before you got notice that the

information was withdrawn.

A. I think the warrants were held by me--I am not positive about the

time that they were issued to me--but it seems to me that the warrants

were in my hands; just one day and night.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Were not your instructions to quietly take those men?

A. My instructions were to quietly take those men up. They were my

instructions. At the time the warrants were issued there was

considerable excitement, and the instructions I got in relation to it

were that after the excitement allayed somewhat, the warrants could be

quietly served without bringing about a conflict, and owing to the

pretty slim police force, it was considered wise to wait until the

trouble would be over.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Who gave you those instructions?

A. The mayor--the chief of detectives, I think it was. I do not say the

mayor, but one of my superior officers, I know it was.

Q. Who was the chief of detectives at that time?

A. Mr. O'Mara, I believe.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Your instructions were to wait until the excitement was allayed?

A. Yes.

Q. And not to go after your men that night after the men had retired to

their homes, and take them up quietly, and take them to the station

house?

A. My impression is, that the men did not retire to their homes on that

day or night; the crowd kept there all night, or staid around the

tracks at Twenty-eighth street, and also at Torrens station.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was any effort made by the police to disperse the crowd during the

night?

A. I was not there.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Could you at any time have taken the men out of the crowd with your

force?

A. If they had resisted I could not, I know.

Q. Could you not have quietly slipped up and taken them?

A. Those men I had warrants for were employés of the road, and I did

not know anything about their being in any crowd, but it appears they

were active leaders. I did not know they were in any crowd, but owing

to the state of excitement at the time, it was considered advisable to

wait until the excitement was allayed before arresting those men.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Who made the information against those men?

A. I think it was Mr. Watt. That is my impression. The information was

drawn by Messrs. Hampton and Dalzell, and sworn to by Mr. Watt.

* * * * *

Roger O'Mara, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 267 Webster avenue.

Q. What was your business in July last?

A. I was chief of detectives of the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. Were you in the city on the 10th of July?

A. Yes.

Q. State what knowledge you have of any disturbance of the peace on

that day?

A. The first knowledge I had, Mr. Watt came to the mayor's office that

morning. I was in the office at the time. He stated that there was a

disturbance, that the men were on a strike, and he wanted to get some

officers to go out with him. Our force was reduced shortly before that,

and no men were on duty in the day time. We only had one hundred and

twenty men, and ten were lamp watchers, and ten were at the

station-houses. One hundred and one in all were left for police duty.

Q. State what occurred?

A. I asked Mr. Watt how many men he thought would do, and he said about

ten men. I had the men gathered up from those men who were dropped from

the rolls, and brought them in there, and told Officer Fowler to take

charge of them, and to go with Mr. Watt. I afterwards asked the mayor,

and he told me that Mr. McGovern should be placed in charge. I then

sent him on up.

Q. Did you have any difficulty in getting the men you wanted?

A. I gathered them in about five minutes. I just asked for ten, and got

them.

Q. Plenty of others were willing to go?

A. I suppose so.

Q. Was anything said between Mr. Watt and the mayor about the pay of

the men?

A. Mr. Watt told me he would pay the men.

Q. Who introduced that subject of pay?

A. I do not know. I told him these men are not on the force, but we

could gather them up if he agreed to pay them.

Q. They went then?

A. Yes; in charge of McGovern.

Q. State what occurred from the time that they went away--whether any

report was made to you or not?

A. I understood about the trouble. McGovern told me about arresting

this party after he came back.

Q. Was any report made to you of what occurred?

A. I had a conversation with him after he came back.

Q. At what time?

A. About four o'clock on Thursday.

Q. What did he state to you when he came back?

A. He told me he had arrested that party--that Mr. Watt went to turn

the switch, and somebody hit him, and he arrested him, and put him in

the Twelfth ward station-house. Information was afterwards made against

some ten parties.

Q. What time was that?

A. I think on Thursday afternoon, after this arrest.

Q. You say against some ten parties?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. In whose hands were the warrants placed?

A. They were given to me first. A lawyer in Mr. Hampton's office was

here. He had them drawn up. I gave the warrants to McGovern. On account

of the excitement we proposed to locate the parties in their houses,

and to get them there. But the next morning a young man in Hampton's

office came in and told me not to make the arrests until further

orders. I thought then that the men were going to work, perhaps. I then

told McGovern not to make the arrests.

Q. Do you state you told McGovern not to arrest the men, but to get

them at their houses?

A. Yes.

Q. How many policemen do you think you could have gathered up that

afternoon for duty?

A. I have no idea how many. A good many of them were about there just

at the time that Mr. Watt came in and said he wanted some. We might

have gotten thirty then. More went out afterwards.

Q. Who sent them out?

A. I do not know. But I understood, however, more men were wanted, and

they were sent out.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. These men that were picked up--these men that had been dropped from

the rolls, did they go out on the ground in uniform, or did they go out

in citizen's dress?

A. I guess some in uniform and some in citizen's dress. I cannot say

whether they were in uniform or not.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were they armed as usual with maces?

A. I cannot say that.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Usually when you send out a squad, don't you arm them with maces?

A. Yes; but these men were not on the rolls, and I just gathered them

up, and sent them out as quickly as possible.

Q. If not armed, they would not have been of much use?

A. No; not of much use, if there was much disturbance, without arms.

Q. You do not know whether they were armed or not?

A. I do not, because I did not go out with them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was there any call made on the night force for it?

A. I do not think there was that night.

Q. They were on duty regularly on Thursday evening, I suppose?

A. Throughout the city, yes.

Q. The one hundred and one men were on service throughout the city

proper?

A. On Thursday night, yes.

Q. None of them went to the scene of this disturbance?

A. Not to my knowledge, except the men on in that district.

Q. How many men were regularly stationed in that district?

A. I suppose about ten men were on in that district--the third

district--from the Union depot to Twenty-eighth street. The lieutenant

in charge of the district may have had his men there.

Q. Who had charge of that district?

A. Henry Coates, I think. I think he had charge of it.

Q. Were any of them sent out there on Friday morning--any of the night

force?

A. I do not think they were, to my knowledge.

Q. Or during the day Friday, at any time?

A. I do not know that they were.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Were you at the scene of the disturbance at any time during the

trouble?

A. I was out there on Sunday morning early, along the line on Liberty

street. There was a good deal of trouble about the city, and we were

gathering the police in and sending them out throughout the city. We

were afraid that the mob would break into the gun shops. The excitement

was so great that I thought they might attempt to break into places,

and so I gathered the men up and sent them to different places.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. If the mayor had made a call for policemen on Thursday afternoon,

how many men could he have raised?

A. I do not know. I have no idea.

Q. Would there have been any difficulty in raising any number of

policemen, do you think?

A. There might have been some. That call was made through the Sunday

papers, and a good many responded.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. How many officers and men does the night force consist of?

A. The whole force was one hundred and twenty men--nine of them

were engaged in the station-houses, and ten of them watched

lamps--patrolmen, detectives, and all. That was for the whole city.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How many men were discharged from the day force?

A. One hundred and sixteen men were discharged. Our whole force

consisted of two hundred and thirty-six men, all told. The

appropriation ran out, and we had to knock the men off.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What reason was given by the officer for not serving the warrants?

He had them one night, had he not?

A. We did not get the houses all located. It seems they were out that

night, and we could not get them served, and the next morning we were

ordered not to serve them. The case was put into the hands of the

sheriff on Friday, I think.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. While you had those warrants for the arrest of those ten men, could

you not have arrested them?

A. I do not think, with the few men we could have got, that we could

have arrested them out there, on account of those men out there. It

might have made the thing worse if we had attempted to arrest them on

the ground. I thought it was better to arrest them away from there.

Q. Did you attempt to locate them at their homes that night--you did

not go to their homes?

A. No; we did not go to their homes, but we got information from the

parties who made the information.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did you have any arrangement to watch those men?

A. From all accounts, the men seemed to be in the crowd. We had no one

watching their houses that night, because we did not find out that

night were they all lived.

Q. Did you not have men to watch these men or follow them around?

A. No, sir; not to my knowledge.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Didn't you see some of these men out there on Friday?

A. I did not. I was not out there.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. How did you expect to know that these men went to their homes, if

you did not follow them or have them watched?

A. The warrants were withdrawn before we located the men.

Q. What efforts were you making to locate them?

A. We were making inquiries from parties who knew them.

Q. Were you trying all the time to find out where they were?

A. We asked the parties who made the information. We wanted to locate

them all, and to make the arrests. We did not expect to arrest them in

the crowd. We thought we could not do it there.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Did you have any spotters out in the crowd at all?

A. Several of the officers there saw the different parties, and what

they did. Or, if information was made against them, we had them

arrested and tried. Some of them are not tried yet. Any of the officers

who knew any men, or saw them do anything, afterwards made information

against them.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. The officers reported to you, did they?

A. Some of them.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. You being the chief of detectives, did you send any men out to spot

those parties?

A. No, sir; after Friday, the thing was taken out of our hands. If any

party gave information in regard to what was done, we would have them

arrested. The detectives were out. We made inquiries of people as to

what they saw other people do.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Was it not on Saturday morning that you considered the complaint

withdrawn upon which the warrants were based?

A. I think on Friday, it was, that I was notified to hold them until

further orders.

Q. Was it not on Saturday morning instead of on Friday morning?

A. My recollection is, that it was Friday.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were you present at any time during the destruction of the property

of the railroad company by fire?

A. I was along the line Sunday morning, in Liberty street. I drove

along with the mayor in a buggy. My mother and sister both lived back

of the Union depot, and they were burned out. I tried to help them get

their things away.

Q. During the fire, were you ever called on by the chief of the fire

department, or by anybody connected with the fire department, to

protect them in their attempts to put out the fire?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know of any other officer of the police force being called

upon to assist them?

A. No.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did you take any measures to prevent this destruction?

A. We could not do anything after the first firing was done. With what

police force we had, we could do nothing at all. They commenced

breaking into houses, and gun stores, &c., and we tried to prevent them

from doing that.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did you see them breaking into any gun stores?

A. Yes; on Penn street I saw a couple of men breaking into a pawn shop.

I heard of the mob coming, and I hurried up the officers, and placed

men in front of different gun stores, but on Wood street they got into

one in spite of the men. Before that, we had notified the different

parties to put their guns away, that the excitement was very great, and

that the soldiers had fired upon the men, and that they would be apt to

break into places to try to get arms. I notified the different parties

to put their goods away that the mob should not get them.

Q. Who composed that crowd--did you recognize any of them?

A. They seemed to be working men--men that came from the south side.

One squad that came from the south side--I saw them going down the

street--a couple of young men--the same that I saw marching down Penn

street. Some of them have been arrested since.

Q. You think the men were principally from the south side who broke

into the gun stores?

A. About the time that they broke into them, at different places, I had

squads of men. On Fifth street a couple of young men came down firing

off guns, and I went to the mayor's office for more men, and I was not

there two minutes when word came that Brown's gun store was broke into.

I then got some men and placed them in front of the door.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you succeed in keeping the crowd out then?

A. Yes; but it was not much good then, for the things were gone. They

had ransacked the place.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What time was that?

A. It was on Saturday night. It was just about dusk when this party

came down, and went in on Liberty street and on Penn street. I was

going up that way towards Twenty-eighth street, when I saw this mob

coming down. I followed on down to see what they proposed to do.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You had no men stationed about any of these gun stores before they

broke into them?

A. Yes, sir; at Brown's, on Wood street.

Q. Were they uniformed men?

A. Yes; on the regular city force. I sent them to the places where I

thought they were most needed, and I tried to prevent the mob from

getting fire-arms.

* * * * *

Charles McGovern, re-called.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were those men that you took to Twenty-eighth street dressed in

uniform?

A. No; just a few of them had vests on with uniform buttons on. And all

of them that had badges about them, I had them place them on their

coats in order to show that they were officers.

Q. Were there any that had neither vests nor badges among them?

A. I think there were. Some of them did not happen to have anything

with which to show that they were officers.

Q. Were they armed in any way?

A. No.

Q. They had no maces?

A. No; they were taken out in a hurry from the city hall--just taken

out on the spur of the moment.

Q. What time were those warrants placed in your hands for the arrest of

those parties?

A. My recollection of the warrants--I could very easily give you a

definite answer if I had time to go to the office and refer to my

memoranda. Then I could tell you. But I think it was Friday. That is my

impression. I think it was Friday morning or Thursday afternoon.

Q. How long did you keep them in your possession?

A. A day, I think, and a night. That is my impression.

Q. Did you make any effort to arrest the parties?

A. We were so busy on other matters that there was no effort made, any

more than to make inquiries and locating the parties. We did not

anticipate any trouble in getting them after the excitement was

somewhat allayed.

Q. Did you go to their houses during the time that you had the

warrants?

A. No.

Q. Did you try to spot the men among the crowd?

A. No; I cannot say that I did, because it was a secondary

consideration in regard to those men. The information was interfering

with railroad employés, and we considered it a light matter towards

what was going on at Twenty-eighth street--the riotous proceedings. We

were kept busy that day and night trying to keep order.

Q. Those men were all participating in the riot as leaders when you

first went out there?

A. I do not know that of my own knowledge, but I, of course, inferred

it from the fact of the information made against them.

Q. Did you know any of the ten or twelve men that stood around, trying

to prevent the arrest of McCall?

A. None of them tried to prevent the arrest of McCall. I knew some of

them by face and a few by name.

Q. Were any of those men's names included in those warrants?

A. I believe they were, but I did not have those warrants at the time.

Q. You did not get them until that evening or the next morning?

A. I think it was the next morning.

Q. Then you did not go up to arrest them when you got the warrants?

A. Not immediately. It was considered a matter of judgment at the

office by the mayor, and, of course, I was under his instructions.

Q. You followed the mayor's instructions?

A. Not specially his instructions, but chief O'Mara's instructions. I

considered it would be easier to serve them afterwards than at the

present time.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. When you summoned those men to go out, you did not provide them with

maces and equipments as you usually do?

A. The police force of this city provide everything for themselves. If

they want to carry a pistol, they must provide it. Our maces we buy,

and our clothes we buy. The city supplies nothing. At one time the city

supplied those things, but now we have got to supply all those things

ourselves. We did not think it would be necessary to have them armed at

that time.

Q. At the time of a row, if the men are armed, it is all right, and if

they are not armed, it is all right, too?

A. It was a sudden summons, and nobody understood the extent of it. Of

course, the gentleman who summoned us, said he did not anticipate any

serious trouble at all; that he thought that our official appearance

would be sufficient; that the presence of the officers there would be

all that was necessary.

Q. But you, as an officer, did not exactly believe in official

appearance, without something to knock down with in case of a row?

A. In case of a riot we ought to be provided with arms; but there was

no riot at that time, nor did we anticipate any.

[A paper exhibited to witness.]

Q. State whether this is the information made upon which the warrants

were issued?

A. I never saw it.

Q. What did you do with the warrants?

A. They are still in the office.

Q. You returned them to the mayor?

A. No; they are still in the closet at the office. I think they are

there yet. I may have destroyed them.

Q. Do you know the date of the warrants?

A. I cannot remember the date. I told you I thought it was Thursday

evening or Friday; that would be the 19th or 20th.

* * * * *

John J. Davis, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 114, Sixteenth street, on the south side.

Q. What was your business in July last?

A. I was clerk to the chief of police.

Q. Where were you on the 19th day of July--Thursday?

A. At the mayor's office, and at the railroad.

Q. State if you have any knowledge of the disturbances that occurred?

A. I was not at the railroad during the time of the disturbances.

Q. Did you receive information of them?

A. We got a second dispatch, or rather a young man came from the ticket

office asking for fifty men. I was present in the office at the time.

Q. What time did you receive that dispatch?

A. Between twelve and one o'clock.

Q. By whom was it signed?

A. I cannot say now. It was brought by a young man at the ticket

office?

Q. You mean the railroad ticket office?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Asking for fifty men?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. To whom was it addressed?

A. To the mayor. I started out and hunted up all the men I could find,

and during my progress I saw the mayor, and he gave me orders to hunt

up all the men I could, both the old men and the men that had been

dropped. I met him on Fifth avenue.

Q. Did you inform him of the dispatch?

A. I did, and he ordered me to hunt up all the men I could possibly

find.

Q. How many did you get?

A. In the neighborhood of twenty-five or twenty-eight that afternoon. I

can not say exactly.

Q. What did you do with them?

A. Some went out on a train, and some walked out. I went out with one

squad, with Mr. White. We saw Mr. Watt, and he suggested the sending of

the men to Torrens station, six or eight of them; the balance of them

stayed at Twenty-eighth street.

Q. What time did you meet the mayor on Fifth avenue?

A. I suppose five minutes after the dispatch came. I started out and

went down to the station-house to see if any officers were there, but I

found none there. I then went two squares, and on my way coming back, I

met the mayor on Fifth avenue. It was not over five or ten minutes.

Q. You informed him about the dispatch calling for fifty men?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where was he during the rest of that afternoon?

A. As I stated before, I went to Twenty-eighth street, and stayed there

all that afternoon.

Q. Did you have any communication with him that afternoon?

A. No; everything was quiet at Twenty-eighth street that afternoon. My

instructions were to communicate if anything was wrong. I went to

Torrens station about four o'clock. Quite a crowd was there.

Q. What was the crowd doing?

A. They were watching to see if any trains would go out. It was

curiosity.

Q. How many were there?

A. One hundred or one hundred and fifty, while I was there.

Q. Of whom was this crowd composed?

A. Of laboring men, and railroad men, and business men, and women and

children.

Q. All mixed together?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were the railroad men noisy and boisterous?

A. Not that I saw.

Q. Were they stopping the trains?

Q. The only one I saw stopped was at Twenty-eighth street.

Q. What time was that?

A. I heard the men saying it was three-forty, schedule time.

Q. They stopped it?

A. They started out, and three or four officers were put on the engine.

After they started, some parties got on the track and waved their

hands, and the engine stopped and the engineer jumped off. The officers

were still on the engine after the engineer got off.

Q. You simply called for volunteers when you went out to hunt up those

men?

A. Only one man refused to go.

Q. Was any demand made on the night force that afternoon?

A. The mayor instructed me to hunt up all the men I could find, both

the men on duty and the men dropped, and I did so.

Q. The men on regular duty went out, did they?

A. Those that I found. At that time we only had one hundred and twenty

men, including lamp-washers and station-house keepers.

Q. How many men did you get that afternoon on actual duty--the night

force?

A. To my best recollection, five or six, but I won't be positive. I

only sent in the bill for the men not on regular duty--twenty-nine the

company paid for--for those men on duty we sent in no bill at all. It

was only for the men not paid by the city.

Q. How long were those men on duty there?

A. Until morning. They reported at the office between seven and seven

and a half o'clock.

Q. Friday morning?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. All of them?

A. Some went home for breakfast.

Q. Were they sent on duty again?

A. They were sent out to the depot in the morning, but they came back

and said they were not wanted, that Officer Fox had all the men he

wanted.

Q. Who was he?

A. He has charge of the officers around the depot.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. He is an employé of the railroad?

A. I think so.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did he tell you that he had all the men that they wanted?

A. The men I sent up to the depot reported that to me.

Q. Who reported that?

A. Officer William Johnson. Several of them, I think. Officer Crosby.

The men came back and they said that they were not wanted. He kept

three at the depot, M. A. Davis, Matthew Goddard, and Ernest Ehring.

Q. Where was the mayor during the night?

A. When I came back in the evening, about seven o'clock, I brought the

men to supper, and after they had supper, I sent them out again, and I

went to the office. I am not positive whether I saw the mayor there or

not. I am not positive about that. The next time I saw him, was in the

neighborhood of twelve o'clock, at the office.

Q. Thursday night?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where did he remain during the balance of the night?

A. In the office. I stayed there also all night.

Q. Were you out during the night?

A. I went out and stayed until about ten o'clock, and then I came back.

Q. Did the mayor have any communication with the men out there during

the night?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Where was the chief of police during the night?

A. I cannot say that.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You say you sent the men back on Friday. Where did you instruct them

to go--to the Union depot or to Twenty-eighth street?

A. To the Union depot. I directed them to ask if they were wanted, and

they came back and said that they were told that they were not wanted;

that they had all the men they wanted.

Q. Do you know where the mayor was on Friday?

A. I cannot answer that, because I was at Twenty-eighth street, almost

all day on Friday. My instructions were to go there, and if I saw a

disturbance, to telegraph immediately to the city to the office.

Q. You did not see him on the ground at any time?

A. No--not on Thursday nor on Friday.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. While you were there, on Friday, did you see any effort made to take

possession of the tracks?

A. No; no effort was made at all.

Q. You saw no disturbance at all on Friday?

A. No.

Q. Or Saturday?

A. No disturbance, until after the trouble about the firing.

Q. Was any effort made during Friday to run out trains?

A. Not while I was there--not on Friday.

Q. The crowd was there?

A. Quite a crowd was gathered there. They appeared to be going and

coming all day.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You saw no effort made on Friday. How long were you there on Friday?

A. I suppose I was there three quarters of the day--walking all along,

and seeing what was going on.

Q. There might have been an effort made, and you not have seen it?

A. Yes, sir.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. It appeared to be an orderly assemblage?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What were they doing?

A. Standing together and chatting--talking.

Q. Standing there all day?

A. They appeared to be coming and going.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Did the subject of conversation appear to be the stopping of the

trains?

A. I did not hear them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What were they there for?

A. For curiosity, I suppose.

Q. Where is this William Johnson that you spoke of?

A. He is on the police force now.

Q. What is Crosby's first name?

A. George.

* * * * *

Philip Demmel, _sworn with the uplifted hand_:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. No. 26 Twelfth street, in the south side.

Q. What was your business during last July?

A. I was chief of the police of Pittsburgh.

Q. State whether any knowledge was brought to you in regard to the

disturbance at Twenty-eighth street, on the 19th of July, and if so,

state what time it was.

A. I came to the office sometime after dinner, and went into the

mayor's office, and I was told that some of the railroad employés had

gone on a strike at about Twenty-eighth street, and that Mr. Watt had

sent for some policemen, and that about ten or a dozen had been sent

out in charge of Detective McGovern. A short time after a dispatch came

in signed by Mr. Watt, asking for fifty more men. I went on the street

myself then. Our police force, of course, was in bed. They did duty at

night. I went on the street, and saw a few of those discharged men, and

asked them to go. Some went and some did not. I did not hear anything

more of it until evening, when I came in from supper. They reported

then that one man had been arrested, and after that everything was

quiet. The men got their suppers, and we sent them out again. There

were only a few that would not go. In the morning they came back--those

who were on duty all night--and some of them said that the railroad

officers had got as many men as they thought sufficient, and that the

military was called out. It was thought at the mayor's office then that

the services of the police would not be needed any longer.

Q. That the services of the police would not be needed any longer, you

say?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did the mayor say that?

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