A. He said to us in the Union depot he could not, and reported to me
the next morning that he could not do it.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Have you any knowledge whether the mayor tried to subdue the riot or
assist the sheriff in trying to subdue the riot?
A. I have not any personal knowledge of the mayor's action.
Q. Was he in the city during the time, or not?
A. Not to my personal knowledge, again. I did make one effort to have
accomplished what I thought would have conduced somewhat to the public
peace that afternoon, Saturday afternoon. That is the only fact within
my own knowledge. About one o'clock, Saturday, seeing a large number of
people attracted to the depot, and knowing that a large number of
operatives were free from work that afternoon, I thought it a measure
of precaution for the mayor to close the drinking saloons in the city.
I drew up a paper, stating this fact, as politely as I could, and that
paper was signed by Mr. Thaw and Mr. McCullough, officers of the
company, and I took it over and had Secretary Quay and Adjutant General
Latta sign it also, and then sent it up to the mayor, and the messenger
reported to me that he had left it at the mayor's office in the hands
of his chief clerk, I think he said; I never heard any more of it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who was that messenger?
A. His name I cannot give you, but I placed it in the hands of D. H.
Rudy; he can give you the name of the messenger who sent it up. That is
the answer that I got, that he left it in the mayor's office. What was
done with it I do not know.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you know whether he complied with it or not?
A. I can only say that the drinking saloons were not closed, and I did
not see any proclamation closing them.
Q. So if you were not a citizen of Pittsburgh, do you suppose you would
think that the mayor had done his duty, as an officer ought to, at that
particular time?
A. Being a citizen of Pittsburgh, I cannot put myself in the position
of not being one. I will have to leave you to judge.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. At the time you first spoke of meeting the crowd of employés, and
their taking possession of the engines on Thursday--the first outbreak
you spoke of what was done on the part of the railroad company to
ascertain the cause of that commotion?
A. I did not understand that there was any secret about the causes of
it all. I am giving now the public understanding. My understanding was
simply this: That an order had been made--Mr. Pitcairn can tell you
more fully about that--an order requiring the running of, what are
called double header trains--two engines to one train, and some of the
employés alleged that that imposed on them additional work without
additional pay. I believe that is the short of it, and rather than
comply with it, they struck. I understood that was made the cause of
beginning the disturbances here.
Q. Did you or any one, on behalf of the railroad company, communicate
with those men?
A. I did not. I understood the operating officers did, but I cannot
tell what occurred between them.
* * * * *
Robert Pitcairn, _sworn with uplifted hand_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your residence?
A. Shady Side.
Q. What is your official connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad
Company?
A. General agent or superintendent of the Pittsburgh division.
Q. How long have you held that position?
A. I came here the last time in the spring of 1865. I have been here
three times. Since that spring I have been superintendent of the
division.
Q. Now give us your statement about the riots. Tell us whether there
were any differences of opinion or disagreements between the
Pennsylvania Railroad Company and the employés prior to the 20th of
July last.
A. There were no more differences than there have been since the road
has been opened. There have always been differences.
Q. Was there any difference existing at that time?
A. No more than heretofore. The company reduced the wages of all
officers and employés ten per cent. in June.
Q. Of 1877?
A. Yes. There was a good deal of friction and complaint. Committees
called upon me, and committees from the different divisions of the road
visited Mr. Scott, the president, and had conferences with him on the
subject. They complained because of the reduction. He explained that
the cause of it was the condition of the country, and that as soon as
business would become brighter, that then the company would entertain
their petitions and would act fairly with them, when the committee, as
they informed me, as Colonel Scott and others informed me, professed
their satisfaction, and said there would be no trouble, but that they
would work harmoniously.
Q. That was on what date?
A. I cannot remember the date; it was after the ten per cent.
reduction.
Q. What was the date of that?
A. I think it was in June--May or June.
Q. Was there any further reduction after that time, and prior to the
riot?
A. There was no reduction in wages.
Q. Was there an increase of duty or work placed upon the employés?
A. That is a question of opinion altogether. The company for many years
back--the officers have been trying all in their power to economically
manage the road, loading the engines to their full capacity and making
them up differently. There is hardly a year passes, but that some of
the officers finds some way of more economically running the road.
There was an order given to make up what we call double-headers between
Pittsburgh and Derry. Since the road has been opened we have always run
double-headed, and sometimes three engines ahead and one behind,
between Altoona and Conemaugh. The object in running the double-headers
to Derry was for the purpose of making the trains go through to
Philadelphia without being divided; that is, it takes two engines to
haul a train from Pittsburgh to Derry, whether two engines ahead or
behind, or two separate trains; and to avoid the delay of running two
separate trains to Derry, one ahead waiting for the other, we put two
engines in front of the trains, when one engine cuts the train going to
Conemaugh, and the one put behind goes down to Altoona, and goes
through from there.
Q. What was the date of that order?
A. The order of running double-headers on all through trains was the
morning of Thursday, but we had always run double-headers between
Pittsburgh and Derry, perhaps from one half to two thirds. The order
was to take effect on that Thursday, and was to make them all
double-headers.
Q. Did the men make any complaint about that order?
A. They made no complaint.
Q. To you or to any other officer of the road?
A. Not that I am aware of. Up to that time we always considered the
double-headers a question of economy.
Q. Did that order require the discharge of any number of men, or did it
not?
A. It did.
Q. By that order you could run your trains with a less number of men?
A. We could run them with a less number of conductors and brakemen, but
not of engineers and firemen. As many double-headers as we had would
take off one single crew of conductors and brakemen each.
Q. You heard no complaint about that order?
A. Not that I am aware of; but the men were always complaining about
something.
Q. That was on Thursday. What was the first riotous occurrence showing
that the men were dissatisfied after the issuing of that order?
A. I had leave of absence on Thursday morning to go to Philadelphia.
For a few days previous I had asked the men--asked the subordinate
officers--as I always do when I see them, if there is any trouble. I
was assured then that our men were more satisfied and loyal than they
had been, and I was perfectly free in my mind in going away on Thursday
morning. I left in the day express on the Thursday morning when the
trouble began.
Q. How far did you go before receiving intelligence of the trouble?
A. When I reached Altoona I got a telegram from Mr. Watt, who
represented me here, saying that a few of the men, after the train I
was on had left, had refused to go out on the double-headers, and that
they were trying to create a disturbance, and saying what action he had
taken, and that his idea was that it would be all right, and for me not
to stop off but to go on, that the matter would be all right.
Q. What hour did you receive that?
A. About twelve twenty, when I reached Altoona. I had no train to
return on and I thought I would go on the day express and think over
the subject, and when I reached Lewistown I made up my mind that I
would return. So I arranged for my family, who were accompanying me, to
go on, and I returned on the fast line from Lewistown, reaching here at
eleven thirty.
Q. In the evening?
A. Yes; eleven twenty-five. On my way west I telegraphed to my
subordinate officers to meet me in Pittsburgh. I intended to get off at
the outer depot, Twenty-eighth street, but there was a large crowd
there, and I came to Union depot, and walked up to where my office then
was, at Twenty-sixth street, and on my way I met a carriage with the
Honorable John Scott and Mr. Watt and the sheriff. I got in the
carriage and went to my office, at Twenty-sixth street, and there found
my subordinate officers, and General Pearson was there.
Q. Who were your subordinate officers?
A. Joseph Fox, road foreman; John Major, road foreman; David Garrett,
assistant trainmaster; Edward Pitcairn, trainmaster; Joseph McCabe,
general dispatcher. Mr. Scott, the sheriff, and all the parties there
were consulting and talking together, when the sheriff made up his mind
to go up to Twenty-eighth street, where the crowd was interfering and
preventing trains from running. I wanted to go up and talk to the men,
when my subordinates prevented me, and said there was no use of my
going up, because none of our men were there. Few, if any, of our own
men were there. It was a crowd. They persuaded me to remain, while the
sheriff and General Pearson went up to Twenty-eighth street. They came
back and reported the result of their attempt to disperse the crowd,
when the communications, as stated by Mr. Scott----
Q. What did the sheriff and General Pearson report to you?
A. They said they went up and went to the crowd and called to the crowd
to disperse and go to their homes, and they made no impression, and
received nothing but vulgar abuse.
Q. Did they go alone?
A. Unless one or two of my men went with them. One or two went with
them.
Q. At what hour was that?
A. About twelve o'clock, Thursday night.
Q. What then occurred?
A. Then came the communications to the different parties. The Governor,
and Mr. Quay, and Lieutenant Governor Latta, and Adjutant General
Latta, and then came the replies, and the message to General Pearson to
order out one of the regiments, I think, which he did.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. From whom did this order come?
A. Adjutant General Latta.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What time did he receive that dispatch from General Latta?
A. Between twelve and half past four in the morning. I think the order
calling out the troops came after the Governor's message. All left the
office about half past four. General Pearson, who had written his
orders about the regiment before, and I parted at the Union depot.
General Pearson went down town, and Mr. Scott, Mr. Watt, and myself
went to the Union depot hotel for the purpose of retiring.
Q. When you came in from Altoona did you notice the disturbance at
Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes.
Q. To what extent?
A. It was dark, and I could not see any of the crowd. I do not know how
many were there.
Q. What was the crowd doing then?
A. Yelling--talking loud.
Q. Were they stopping trains?
A. I do not know; they did not stop our train. I went to bed; but it
was not five minutes until I received another telegram, and another,
pertaining to the business of the road. So I got up. There were a
number of messages from President Scott and the general superintendent.
They had an idea we could move the trains in the morning, and were
giving different orders about stock and different things.
Q. Did you make any effort to move a train on Friday morning?
A. We were continually making efforts; we never ceased.
Q. What effort did you make to move the trains on Friday morning?
A. The efforts to move the trains on Friday morning were, securing the
crews and firing up the engines, and having everything ready to move
when we could get through the crowd.
Q. Did you succeed in securing the crews?
A. Yes.
Q. Were they new men, or old employés?
A. Old employés. I want you to bear in mind, that in starting the
trains, the crews were always there, professing their readiness to go
out, and at no time had we not sufficient crews to take the whole
number of cars out.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Who stopped you from running the trains?
A. The crowd.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What was the crowd?
A. I did not know them.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Any of your own men?
A. I was about continually, and I do not think I ever saw over three or
four of my own men in any crowd, if you leave out the sub-officers.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. On Friday morning you had crews enough to start all the trains; did
you give orders to start?
A. To be ready to start.
Q. But you did not give any order to start?
A. No.
Q. For what reasons?
A. To get assistance to keep the crowd off our property.
Q. Did you think at that time that the crowd was so large that the
trains could not run through it?
A. Not without killing them. They had charge of the switches there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The crowd had?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you think if a train had started you could have run it through
the crowd, and gone on--in your opinion?
A. If the crowd had not turned the switches. The switchmen were there,
but under the management of the crowd.
Q. Did you go up there where that crowd was Friday morning, to see, of
your own knowledge, whether the trains could run through or not?
A. On Friday morning we had a crowd at two points, Twenty-eighth street
and at Torrens station. To both places I went.
Q. How large a crowd was at Twenty-eighth street that morning--Friday
morning?
A. On Friday morning, to connect my story, I went up with General
Pearson at Twenty-eighth street, and he talked to the crowd. I think
the sheriff was along.
Q. How large a crowd did you find there?
A. I never was at Twenty-eighth street that evening.
Q. On Friday morning?
A. I have very little idea about the numbers of a crowd--it was a very
large crowd.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was your road-way blocked up?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were any of your men among that crowd--your employés?
A. As I said before, I never recognized, I would be safe in saying half
a dozen of our men that I knew.
Q. From Twenty-eighth street did you go out to Torrens?
A. Yes.
Q. How large a crowd was there?
A. I would say six hundred or a thousand. There was a crowd. I have no
idea what number a crowd is.
Q. Did you find any of the railroad employés among that crowd?
A. I found one man that I knew as an employé, but I cannot name him. He
talked to me, that is the reason I remember him.
Q. Were any of the switches turned, at that time, at Torrens?
A. None, to my knowledge.
Q. The track was clear at that time, so that the trains could have run
through if they had allowed it?
A. Not to my personal knowledge.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Who seemed to be directing the crowd. That is, the mob?
A. There seemed to be an understanding, from the remarks made by the
crowd, that they had sufficient force to prevent the trains going out.
As for example: At Torrens a party told me it was bread or blood, and
they could get any number of men to come up and prevent the running
through of any train until the matter was arranged with them.
Q. Was that man an employé of the road?
A. He was, but I do not remember his name.
Q. What position did he hold on the road?
A. A train man. He may have been a flag man. I thought I knew his name,
and came down to see a party arrested, but it was not the man. I have
not seen him since.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were those threats made by the crowd or by this one man?
A. By a single man.
Q. Were the threats made about preventing the running of the trains by
employés or others?
A. By outsiders. They could not get enough employés to stop the trains.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. When you doubled up the trains, how many men did you relieve. That
is, on the morning of the Thursday that this outbreak occurred?
A. If there were ten single trains and I doubled up, I saved five
conductors and five flagmen and ten brakemen.
Q. What became of those men?
A. They were suspended.
Q. Was anything said to them, that they were suspended for a certain
time, or were they just dropped?
A. Those crews were not suspended, but that many men, and a great many
more, because the business had gone down, were suspended, and we were
choosing the married men and the old men. The old men and the married
men were chosen, in preference to the single men.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. But by suspension do you mean discharge, or do you mean suspension
temporarily?
A. They were given to understand that there was no more work.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. This was one of the causes, this doubling up, as I understood you to
say, that created the dissatisfaction here at this point?
A. That is what they say.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you not only reduce your crews, so far as the conductors and
brakemen and flagmen were concerned, one half of a train, if it was
sent out as a double-header?
A. One half of the trains we were running single between Pittsburgh and
Derry.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were any of the discharged men among the crowd at Twenty-eighth
street or at Torren's station that morning?
A. Yes; I saw quite a number of men who had been discharged for cause
as well as suspended on account of the reduction.
Q. You deemed it unsafe from that time on to start your trains, from
the time you visited Twenty-eighth street and Torren's station that
morning?
A. The sheriff and General Pearson--the sheriff ordered the crowd to
disperse and General Pearson, in fact, made a calm and warning speech,
and told them what his orders were, that the military had been ordered
out and what the consequences would be, and coaxed and pleaded with
them to disperse before the military came up that had been ordered out.
Q. What time did the military come up?
A. In regard to the time of any of those occurrences, from Thursday
until it was all over I was not in bed, and it is kind of cloudy in my
mind as to the different hours; but as to the hour, I should say that
this was about twelve or one o'clock, Friday.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When the military came at the crowd?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How many companies came on the ground at that time?
A. First one company--they were very straggling.
Q. Who commanded the first company that came?
A. I do not know.
Q. It was under the general direction of General Pearson?
A. Yes.
Q. At what point were they stationed?
A. That I cannot tell. On Friday--I cannot tell. I do not remember if
there were any soldiers at Twenty-eighth street. I cannot tell. Friday
night the Pittsburgh troops were brought out.
Q. What time did the first burning or destruction of property by fire
commence?
A. Friday night the troops were stationed at Torrens.
Q. What time did the first burning commence?
A. I do not know that--I cannot say.
Q. Do you know where it commenced?
A. Only from hearsay. A great deal occurred between Friday night and
Saturday night.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. When the sheriff and General Pearson went to the mob, was the mayor
of the city, at that time, acting in conjunction with them?
A. I never saw the mayor.
Q. You do not know whether he issued a proclamation or assisted in any
way whatever?
A. No.
Q. You do not know whether he took an active part in the matter of
suppressing the riot?
A. No.
Q. Was he called on?
A. Only Mr. Watt informed me on Thursday morning, and then the sheriff
was called Thursday evening.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who was called first?
A. The mayor, according to my information.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. He did not respond?
A. Mr. Watt will tell you that.
Q. You have no personal knowledge about that?
A. No; it was before I arrived on Thursday night.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you know when the first call was made on the sheriff, of your own
knowledge?
A. Thursday night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he respond?
A. Yes--in my office.
Q. With a force?
A. He had one man.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who was the man with him?
A. I did not know him.
Q. Do you know what effort he made to secure a force?
A. Only what he told me.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you there when the dispatch was sent for troops--the first
dispatch, when the sheriff made up his mind to call upon the military?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time was that?
A. It was about twelve o'clock Thursday night.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The call upon the mayor and on the sheriff was not made until after
you returned?
A. The call on the mayor was made on Thursday morning and the call on
the sheriff was made on Thursday evening.
Q. Had you become satisfied then that you could not run your trains on
account of the mob which had assembled?
A. Yes; I knew we could not run the trains.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. With safety?
A. No way.
Q. Did this ten per cent. reduction apply to all the officers and
employés of the railroad company?
A. All the officers and employés, except those who got one dollar a day
or less, either by the month or day--the track men getting ten cents an
hour for ten hours. All above one dollar were reduced.
By Senator Torbert:
Q. That took effect on the 1st of June?
A. I think so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. It applied to the general superintendent?
A. He told me so. It applied to me.
Q. To the president of the company?
A. I believe so.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. In regard to the dispatch which you received from Mr. Watt--did you
receive any other dispatch except the one you received at Altoona,
asking you to come back, or which caused you to make up your mind to
return?
A. No.
Q. After you got back you say the crowd had assembled--had there been
any attempt by the crowd to prevent trains from running?
A. They told me so--no trains went out.
Q. At what time was any train stopped?
A. The first double headers went out from Pittsburgh all right--they
were not troubled.
Q. At what hour?
A. From three o'clock in the morning up to nine o'clock or eight
o'clock in the morning.
Q. What trains were first prevented from leaving regularly on time?
A. The trains that should have left between eight and nine o'clock.
Q. A freight train?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was prevented from leaving?
A. The crew on that train would not go out.
Q. It was not the crowd that prevented that first train from leaving?
A. I was not there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Could you have got back any sooner?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say the crew of that train would not go out. Were they
discharged then when they refused to obey orders?
A. After I got home, I had too little control, and wanted to get along
as well as I could.
Q. Do you know what your officers did when that crew refused to go?
A. I understood that they had either to go out or be discharged.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. I was endeavoring to ascertain the first time that the crowd
interfered?
A. I was not here, but you can get that testimony if you want it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Can you give any idea of the loss to property that occurred through
this riot?
A. No; not of my own knowledge. I have no idea. The bills are coming in
every day.
Q. About what was it in round numbers--the loss sustained by the
company?
A. I have my own idea.
Q. Who can give us the figures?
A. I suppose our controller or one of the vice presidents could give
them as estimated up to to-day.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. How many cars and engines did you lose?
A. We lost one hundred and four engines, and about sixteen hundred
cars.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The engines would average what?
A. I do not think the engines are all re-built yet.
Q. The cars are about how much?
A. About $800 a piece.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. On the freight cars could any of the iron be re-placed?
A. I might say no. Of course, occasionally, a wheel or two might be an
exception, but none could be used again.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Who is your controller?
A. R. W. Downing, of Philadelphia.
Q. He can give us an approximate estimate?
A. He or one of our vice presidents.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You were here when the troops arrived from Philadelphia?
A. Yes; I saw all the movements of the troops.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Tell us now the movements of the troops, the Pittsburgh troops
first, and then the Philadelphia troops?
A. The Pittsburgh troops--most of them--were moved at night. One
regiment was moved or went up the hill east from here on the arch of
the hill, and then came down on Twenty-eighth street, so as to come
down on the crowd.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When was this?
A. On Saturday morning. General Pearson ordered the battery to be taken
up to the same place. It was loaded in the cars at the Union depot, and
I was requested to move it up about two or three o'clock in the
morning, to get there when the troops would be there. About two and one
half or three o'clock, I had just gone to bed when they told me that
they would not take the gondolas with the guns up.
Q. The men would not?
A. That is it. I went down and saw the men, and asked them why they
would not do it, and they told me they were afraid of the crowd, that
they would like to oblige me. I said if you don't take those trucks up,
I will have to discharge you. They told me that they would like to do
it, but their lives were threatened. They would not do it, so I had to
take them up myself. I went up to Twenty-eighth street with the guns,
and then I saw this large crowd.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Were you interfered with when you took up the gondolas?
A. No one said anything to me at the Union depot, only they kind of
crowded around. When I got to Twenty-eighth street, they made a kind of
rush, and when they saw I was running the engine, I expected them to
attack me, but they did not. They did not say anything to me, only kind
of crowded around. They got on the tank and saw no one but myself, and
did not say anything.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Who got on?
A. The crowd.
Q. Employés of the railroad?
A. I did not recognize them as railroad men.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Give us the detailed movements, now, of the troops?
A. We brought the troops to Twenty-eight street with the battery on
Saturday morning, and at the same time there was a regiment at Torrens.
General Pearson and the sheriff and I went to those two places at
different times to see what we could do. At Torrens that regiment,
apparently, had the mob under control, that is they would not crowd
around the tracks. The military seemed to be by themselves, while at
Twenty-eighth street they were all mixed up--the military and the mob.
Then I received word that General Brinton's command was coming on
Friday night or Saturday morning. They ought to have arrived about
noon; but did not get here until about four o'clock. They arrived at
the Union depot about four o'clock on Saturday afternoon. We unloaded
them, and got some coffee and sandwiches, and word was given to them to
march to Twenty-eighth street, and clear the tracks.
Q. Who gave the order?
A. Some of the military. Mr. Cassatt, who arrived here on Friday,
directed me to get two crews together, that General Brinton's command
would clear the tracks, and that I could slip the trains out, and that
everything, then, would go all right. Then General Brinton's command
commenced to march, and the sheriff came up with about twenty members
of his posse, and I urged him to hurry up and get there before the
troops, and that if any of our men were there, I would talk to them,
and perhaps prevent trouble. I went up. The crowd kept coming in on us
all the way from the Union depot, so we took a large crowd up there.
The crowd followed us up. We were so delayed in warning the crowd to
get away that they came up close to us, and when we got to
Twenty-eighth street, General Pearson was there, and the sheriff and
his posse ahead of the military. The sheriff, I think, attempted to
arrest one man who was very noisy, and then there was a general rumpus,
and I was thrown back by the crowd and got in among the military
companies, who had formed on Twenty-eighth street. They formed up and
down on the north side, and up and down on the south side, and brought
a company up between Then a man threw me back, and the company coming
up the street allowed me to get in between. They went up, I suppose, to
disperse the mob.
Q. Who threw you back?
A. I do not know; he was a great big man; he was a friend of mine, I
know; it was not an attempt to hurt me. This company moved up, and
dispersed the mob, and the command was given to charge bayonets, and
put the bayonets between the people so as not to hurt them.
Q. Who gave that command?
A. I do not know.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. The object was not to use force, but to try and press the crowd
back?
A. That is it. They were going to push them away. Then the crowd
commenced cheering, and I saw two or three bayonets twisted off, and
then a lot of stones were thrown at the military. General Pearson came
back to me then, and said he was going to the office--was going to get
more troops. He then went away. I could not get out. Then they
commenced firing.
Q. What time was that?
A. About five o'clock on Saturday afternoon. I could not get out until
the firing was all over and the crowd dispersed.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were not shots fired from the crowd before the firing commenced?
A. Yes; two shots were fired. I was near to the men.
Q. Fired at the military?
A. Yes; and stones came around and clouded the horizon.
Q. Before there was any firing by the military?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was any command given to fire?
A. No; all the officers I saw were begging the men not to fire.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. When the soldiers went up they did not attempt to injure the crowd?
Were any of the soldiers hit and wounded at that time, before the
firing--before they attempted to fire?
A. I saw two or three wounded right around me.
Q. Before that firing began?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In other words, they attempted to do it without using force. Just by
pressing back the crowd?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you describe the crowd? Who composed it?
A. The crowd immediately around Twenty-eighth street, on the track,
were workingmen--mill men. The other men, from their appearance on the
hillside, were citizens. A great many people that I knew.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Women and children?
A. I saw no children, but some women.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Mixed in with the crowd?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Close to the railroad?
A. They were apparently urging on the men. Some women were on the
railroad.
Q. Encouraging the men?
A. They were yelling, and in through the men. There were very few women
that I saw. They were all laughing and jeering at the soldiers.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long did the militia stand fire from the mob? Stand those stones
and clubs before they fired?
A. Then the company moved up and got in the crowd, and there was a man
in the crowd hallooed shoot, and two pistol shots and a great many
stones followed, and then the soldiers commenced firing, and then there
was shooting just that quick.
Q. Was any order given for the soldiers to shoot?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was it a scattering fire, or did it appear to be a volley?
A. It was in every way and in every direction.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. When those stones were fired, you were among the military?
A. I was among the military, in the hollow square.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Proceed with the military movements?
A. They dispersed the crowd by the firing, and as soon as I got out, I
went down to my office, at Twenty-sixth street. I there found General
Pearson, and I reported to Mr. Cassatt what had been done. He was
talking to General Pearson, and General Pearson was writing telegrams
to General Latta at the Union depot. Then General Pearson and General
Brinton were discussing what to do next, and whether Twenty-eighth
street was a proper position for them to take, or to go up the hill or
to come into the shops--what they had best do with the men. General
Pearson was telegraphing for orders. They decided they would come into
the shops, in order to get under shelter. The crowd was congregated
around my office, and around the shops. General Pearson told me he
would stay there, and as he had had nothing to eat that day, asked if I
would send up some provisions: I told him I would go down to the Union
depot and send all the provisions I could. So Mr. Cassatt and myself
went to the Union depot, and I tried to get provisions up to the
soldiers, but they were all confiscated by the crowd before they got
any. I then went up to the room where General Latta and staff were. All
this time the drums were beating, and crowd after crowd was moving up
toward Twenty-sixth street. Mr. Cassatt said we were powerless to do
anything, and directed me, or rather relieved me altogether of any--he
said I had no business in Pittsburgh. All the time, during Friday and
Saturday, one after another had come to me and said I had better leave.
At the Union depot, they had got a report that I had given the order
for the troops to fire. They had a coffin and a rope for General
Pearson. All these reports were spreading about. Numbers of people told
me to leave, and Mr. Cassatt directed me to leave. I afterwards left in
company with Mr. Watt and Mr. Cassatt.
Q. Where did you go?
A. We loafed around the outskirts, and then went to Blairsville and
reported, and made our head-quarters there at the Blairsville
intersection. There I remained until I received word from Mr. Garrett
that some of the old men wanted to see me to see if the matter could
not be arranged, and to see if the trains could not be moved.
Q. When was it that you received that word?
A. On Tuesday. I was informed that some of the old men wanted to see
me, and had other messages that I should come, and I came down to
Pittsburgh.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you meet any of the men?
A. I met the men.
Q. To what number?
A. About eight or ten.
Q. What proposition did they make?
A. None. On Friday a committee of the men met me, making a certain
proposition.
Q. You did not meet them until Friday after you came back?
A. I mean I met them the Friday of the trouble. I told them I could not
possibly send such a paper to Mr. Scott. Then this other committee met
me on Wednesday after I came back. I met that committee, and instead of
what I expected, they brought out the old proposition.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the nature of that?
A. It was that no double headers, and full crews, and, I think, twenty
per cent. advance. It was everything. I have got the paper. There are
about four, or five, or six demands.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You have that paper?
A. Yes, sir.
Adjourned to meet again at three o'clock, P.M.