Mr. DULLES. As the car went----

Mr. LAWSON. I don't believe it would have been starting out.

Mr. DULLES. I was talking about it at the time of the shooting.

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir; I have no idea.

Mr. STERN. Could you now just very briefly and generally summarize the

security arrangements at Love Field and your participation in them.

Were they under your control and supervision?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; they were under my control and supervision.

We held our police meeting at the airport last because of problems

involved in finding an area big enough for his motorcade to start

and the planes to park and so forth. This was not actually resolved

until the day before he arrived, and that is why the police meeting

was held at that point quite late. But arrangements were made to have

the general public contained behind a chain link fence which is there

anyway, and any overflow general public to be in a parking lot a little

ways further away from the President, if there was not enough room

behind this chain link fence. Police were along both of these fences to

keep the people in their place.

There were two service roads which came in between these two general

public areas. We closed off one and used the other because it was the

only service road that most of the wings from the Dallas Air Terminal

were able to use, catering trucks going together, airplanes, mechanics

and people being ferried, crews being ferried and so forth so we

couldn't cut it off directly.

However, these roads were to be shut off when his plane touched down,

and kept shut off until after his motorcade departed inward, and then

they were to be used again while we were gone and then just before we

returned to the airport they were to be shut off again.

Mr. STERN. What about police on buildings?

Mr. LAWSON. Police were requested on the wing of the air terminal that

came out closest to where he would stop, and police were requested to

be on the air cargo building to the rear of this crowd area, which is

a little higher than the small building, the customs building. Any

policeman on the air cargo building would be able to control anybody on

the roof at the customs building.

Mr. STERN. Were these police stationed to watch the crowd, to watch

persons who might be on the roofs of these buildings, to watch persons

who might be in these buildings? What was their function?

Mr. LAWSON. The police on the building tops were to make sure that no

unauthorized people were on the building tops, and to watch generally

anything else that they could watch, that they were keeping their

building top clear. And there were police along the fences to watch the

crowd and to keep the people from coming onto the field who were not

supposed to. There were detectives to be assigned throughout the crowd,

to mingle with the crowd so that the people in the crowd would not know

they were detectives.

Mr. STERN. Was there any particular check of offices inside the

buildings which might present a vantage point overlooking the place

where the President was to land and be received?

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Were there such overlooking places?

Mr. LAWSON. There wouldn't have been except in a certain wing way up to

the right of where he landed, quite a ways away.

There wasn't any building directly in front on the side where he would

come off the plane and walk down. There would be a building to his

right at the very end of a wing that came out, and there was police

on that. The crowd behind the fences would go over to the customs

building, and no one would be able to see out of this one-story customs

building. And behind that was the air cargo building where a policeman

was requested on top. The police were then also requested all the way

along our exit route along the parking lots and the runways as we went

out of the airport and the motorcycle escort vehicles were waiting down

closer to where we made our exit, again because of the room factor.

Mr. STERN. Did you confer with Air Force representatives who had

responsibility for the President's plane and the Vice President's plane?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir. I learned that they had been in for a general

meeting of their own the morning of the 13th that I had not been aware

of, but because of the Presidential trips the week before he came to

Dallas, he went to Maryland and he went to New York and he went to a

couple places in Florida, they were not able to send someone out to

help with setting up the airport as soon as was usual.

And because of a personal problem, the one that was to arrive on

Wednesday morning, didn't arrive until Wednesday evening. I was quite

certain that the area that we were being provided by the local airport

was not going to be sufficient for our motorcade formation, the parking

of three jet planes and so forth. But being a layman, I couldn't really

impress them that this was so. But when the Air Force people did come

in, they agreed that as set up it would not work, and Mr. Sorrels and

the assistant airport director were able to get some extra space from

a couple of companies nearby there, and it was able to be worked out,

still really not enough room but it was adequate.

Mr. STERN. Ultimate responsibility for determining those

arrangements--whether those arrangements are adequate is with the Air

Force, is that right?

Mr. LAWSON. I don't really believe I understand your question. Would

you make it again please?

Mr. STERN. You were concerned that the arrangements were not adequate.

Mr. LAWSON. Yes.

Mr. STERN. But you had to have the Air Force recommendation to

straighten things out with the local authorities?

Mr. LAWSON. Well, I know the size of the planes because I have the

dimensions of them that I take with me on a trip, and other things, and

also from past experience. However, they make measurements and they

know their own FAA rules, Air Force rules as to how close you can park

jet planes to one another, what the turning radiuses are and so forth,

so I was certain that the room that we had been provided wasn't enough,

but I was also quite certain that when the Air Force got there, they

would bear me out, which was true.

Mr. STERN. If the Air Force is satisfied with the arrangements though,

is that the end of it?

Mr. LAWSON. Only for certain things. They would say if they definitely

had enough room to park, how they would be parked, how they would

come in, how they would go out and so forth. But again final security

responsibility would be up to us. If it is an area where you can't

possibly fit the press area in, the motorcade can't line up, the people

can't come out without creating a lot of confusion so that you can't

tell what is going on, then it delves into security, because the more

confusion you have the worse off you are security-wise.

Mr. STERN. I think we might touch briefly on press arrangements.

Will you tell us, if you know, how the final arrangements for the

President's visit were announced, and particularly the motorcade route.

Mr. LAWSON. I know from reading in the paper how it was announced but

I do not know who announced it. I believe it appeared in the Tuesday

morning paper. That would have been the 19th I believe. There was quite

a bit of speculation before that perhaps the motorcade would go here

and perhaps the motorcade would go there, but I believe that the one

that was finally used was put in the paper on Tuesday morning, the 19th

from my recollection. Let me make sure that Tuesday is the 19th.

Mr. STERN. It is the 19th. Had there been a meeting on the 18th at

which this was considered?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; there was a meeting late in the afternoon of

the 18th, in a private club in Dallas that I arrived at late. The

meeting was called primarily as I understand it because of the various

political groups that wanted certain things, and what Washington

wanted, and there were various problems to work out as to who got

tickets, who sat at the head table, who rode in what cars and so forth.

And the local host committee had designated a certain individual to be

their representative there, and then these other groups also had people

represented. Mr. Puterbaugh, for example, the liaison man that went

with me from Washington, was there. And I had just come from going over

the route with the police earlier that afternoon, and I told them as a

point of information that this was the route as we had it now, unless

it was changed later.

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