Senator COOPER. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are going to
give to this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Dr. GREGORY. I do.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you state your full name for the record, please?
Dr. GREGORY. Doctor Charles Francis Gregory.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your profession, sir?
Dr. GREGORY. I am a physician and surgeon.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you outline your educational background briefly,
please?
Dr. GREGORY. I received a bachelor of science degree from the
University of Indiana in 1941, and an M.D. degree in medicine from the
Indiana University School of Medicine in 1944.
Following 1-year internship and a tour of duty in the U.S. Navy, I
undertook 5 years of postgraduate training in orthopedic surgery at
Indiana University Medical Center.
Upon completing that training I became a member of the faculty at
Indiana University Medical School, and remained so until November of
1952, when I reentered the U.S. Navy for another 20 months.
In 1956 I was appointed professor and then chairman of the Division
of Orthopedic Surgery at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical
School, where I presently am.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you certificated by the American Board of Orthopedic
Surgery?
Dr. GREGORY. I am, in 1953.
Mr. SPECTER. What experience, if any, have you had with bullet wounds,
Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY. Beyond the rather indigenous nature of such wounds in the
main teaching hospital at Southwestern Medical School, my experience
has covered a tour of duty in the Navy during World War II, and a
considerably more active period of time in the Korean war in support of
the 1st Marine Corps Division.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the total number of
bullet wounds you have had an opportunity to observe and treat?
Dr. GREGORY. I would estimate that I have dealt directly with
approximately 500 such wounds.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you a licensed doctor in the State of Texas at the
present time?
Dr. GREGORY. I am.
Mr. SPECTER. What were your duties in a general way back on November
22, 1963, with Parkland Hospital?
Dr. GREGORY. On that date, November 22, 1963, I was seeing patients in
the health service of the adjacent medical school building when about
noon I was advised that the President of the United States had been
admitted to Parkland Hospital due to gunshot injuries.
I went immediately to the emergency room area of the Parkland Hospital,
and upon gaining admission to the emergency room, I encountered the
hospital superintendent.
I inquired of him then as to whether or not the President had injuries
which might require my attention and he indicated that they were not of
that nature.
I, therefore, took a number of unnecessary onlookers like myself from
the emergency area in order to reduce the confusion, and I went to the
fifth floor of the hospital, which is the orthopedic ward.
And after attending a number of patients there, I prepared to leave the
hospital, but stopped by the surgical suite on my way out, to check and
see if any need for my services might have come up, and encountered
there Dr. Shaw who indicated to me that Governor Connally had also been
injured, and that these included injuries to his extremities for which
I would be retained.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Dr. Shaw then call upon you to perform operative aid
for Governor Connally?
Dr. GREGORY. He did.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did you first see Governor Connally then?
Dr. GREGORY. I first saw Governor Connally after Dr. Shaw had prepared
him and draped him for the surgical procedures which he carried out on
the Governor's chest.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you have any opportunity to observe the wound on
the Governor's chest?
Dr. GREGORY. I could see the wounds on the Governor's chest, but I
could see them only through the apertures available in the surgical
drapes, and therefore I had difficulty orienting the exact positions of
the wounds, except for the wound identified as the wound of exit which
could be related to the nipple in the right chest which was exposed.
Mr. SPECTER. Now what did you observe with respect to the wound on the
Governor's wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. I did not have an opportunity to examine the wound on the
Governor's wrist until Dr. Shaw had completed his surgical treatment of
the Governor's chest wound.
At that time he was turned to his back and it was possible to examine
both the right upper extremity and the left lower extremity for wounds
of the wrist and left thigh respectively.
The right wrist was the site of a perforating wound, which by
assumption began on a dorsal lateral surface. In lay terms this is
the back of the hand on the thumb side at a point approximately 5
centimeters above the wrist joint.
There is a second wound presumed to be the wound of exit which lay in
the midline of the wrist on its palmar surface about 2 centimeters,
something less than 1 inch above the wrist crease, the most distal
wrist crease.
Mr. SPECTER. You say that the wound on the dorsal or back side of the
wrist you assume to be the wound of entrance. What factors, if any, led
you to that assumption?
Dr. GREGORY. I assumed it to be a wound of entrance because of the
general ragged appearance of the wound, but for other reasons which I
can delineate in a lighter description which came to light during the
operative procedure and which are also hallmarked to a certain extent
by the X-rays.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you proceed to tell us, even though it is out of
sequence, what those factors, later determined to be, were which led
you to assume that it was the wound of entrance?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes. Assuming that the wrist wound, which included a
shattering fracture of the wrist bone, of the radial bone just above
the wrist, was produced by a missile there were found in the vicinity
of the wound two things which led me to believe that it passed from
the dorsal or back side to the volar. The first of these----
Mr. SPECTER. When you say volar what do you mean by that?
Dr. GREGORY. The palm side.
Mr. SPECTER. Proceed.
Dr. GREGORY. The first of these was evidence of clothing, bits of
thread and cloth, apparently from a dark suit or something of that sort
which had been carried into the wound, from the skin into the region of
the bone.
The second of these were two or three small fragments of metal which
presumably were shed by the missile after their encounter with the firm
substance which is bone.
Mr. SPECTER. As to the bits of cloth which you describe, have you had
an opportunity earlier today to examine a coat, heretofore identified
and marked by a picture bearing Commission Exhibit No. 683, which we
will have later testimony on as being Governor Connally's coat?
Dr. GREGORY. I have.
Mr. SPECTER. And what, if anything, did your examination disclose with
respect to the wound of the right wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. Well, the right sleeve of the coat has a tear in it close
to the margin at a point which is, I think, commensurate with the
location of the dorsal surface, the back side of the wrist, forearm
where the two may have been superimposed and both damaged by the same
penetrating body.
Mr. SPECTER. Is the nature of the material of the suit coat the same as
that which you found in the wound of the wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. It is. As a matter of fact, at the time that the wound was
treated, and the cloth was found, the speculation was made as to the
kind of--the color of the suit the Governor was wearing and moreover
the thread was almost identifiable as mohair or raw silk or something
of that nature and entirely consistent with this fabric.
Mr. SPECTER. Was the color, which you speculated about, the same as
which you see in this jacket?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes; it was my impression it was black or either dark blue.
Mr. SPECTER. You say there was something in the X-ray work which led
you to further conclude that that was the wound of entrance?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you proceed now to show the Commission those X-rays,
please?
Dr. GREGORY. This is an X-ray made in the lateral view of the
Governor's wrist at the time he was brought to the hospital prior to
any surgical intervention.
Mr. SPECTER. As to the first X-ray, Dr. Gregory, would you identify the
date when it was taken?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes; this film was made on November 22, 1963, as indicated
by a pencil marking on that film, and it further bears the assigned
X-ray number of 219-992, which was that of the patient, Governor John
Connally.
Mr. SPECTER. May it please the Commission we shall reserve number 690
and 691 for later identification of those photographs and X-rays.
Senator COOPER. So ordered.
Dr. GREGORY. If you will notice in addition to the apparent fracture of
this, the radial bone here.
Mr. SPECTER. Are you now describing a second X-ray?
Dr. GREGORY. No; these are two taken at right angle of the Governor's
wrist prior to attention. These are diagnostic film, one made with the
hand palm down and one with the hand turned 90°.
Mr. SPECTER. Do they bear identical numbers then?
Dr. GREGORY. They do.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any mark on them at the present time which
distinguishes them by way of marking or number?
Dr. GREGORY. Other than the pencil markings on each of these two films
and my own which I attached last evening for convenience.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you mark one of them as "A" and one as "B," so that
when you describe them here we will know which you are referring to?
Dr. GREGORY. Very well. Let the record show that "A" stands for the
anteroposterior view, Exhibit No. 691, and "B" stands for the lateral
view, Exhibit No. 690, of the right wrist and forearm. "A" then
demonstrates a comminuted fracture of the wrist with three fragments.
Mr. SPECTER. What do you mean by comminuted?
Dr. GREGORY. Comminuted refers to shattering, to break into more than
two pieces, specifically many pieces, and if I may, I can point out
there is a fragment here, a fragment here, a fragment here, a fragment
here, and there are several smaller fragments lying in the center of
these three larger ones.
Mr. SPECTER. How many fragments are there in total, sir, in your
opinion?
Dr. GREGORY. I would judge from this view that counting each isolated
fragment there are fully seven or eight, and experience has taught that
when these things are dismantled directly under direct vision that
there very obviously may be more than that.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you continue to describe what that X-ray shows with
respect to metallic fragments, if any?
Dr. GREGORY. Three shadows are identified as representing metallic
fragments. There are other light shadows in this film which are
identified or interpreted as being artifacts.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the basis of distinction between that which is an
artifact and that which is a real shadow of the metallic substance?
Dr. GREGORY. A real shadow of metallic substance persist and be seen in
other views, other X-ray copies, whereas artifacts which are produced
by irregularities either in the film or film carrier will vary from one
X-ray to another.
Mr. SPECTER. Is it your view that these other X-ray films led you to
believe that those are, in fact, metallic substances?
Dr. GREGORY. As a matter of fact, it is the mate to this very film,
the lateral view marked "B", which shows the same three fragments in
essentially the same relationship to the various levels of the forearm
that leads me to believe that these do, in fact, represent metallic
fragments.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe as specifically as you can what those
metallic fragments are by way of size and shape, sir?
Dr. GREGORY. I would identify these fragments as varying from
five-tenths of a millimeter in diameter to approximately 2 millimeters
in diameter, and each fragment is no more than a half millimeter in
thickness. They would represent in lay terms flakes, flakes of metal.
Mr. SPECTER. What would your estimate be as to their weight in total?
Dr. GREGORY. I would estimate that they would be weighed in micrograms
which is very small amount of weight. I don't know how to reduce it to
ordinary equivalents for you.
It is the kind of weighing that requires a microadjustable scale, which
means that it is something less than the weight of a postage stamp.
Mr. SPECTER. Have you now described all the metallic substances which
you observed either visually or through the X-rays in the Governor's
wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. These are the three metallic substance items which I saw.
Now if I may use these to indicate why I view the path as being from
dorsal to volar, from the back of the wrist to the palm side, these
have been shed on the volar side suggesting that contact with this bone
resulted in there being flaked off, as the remainder of the missile
emerged from the volar side leaving the small flakes behind.
Mr. SPECTER. Are the X-rays helpful in any other way in ascertaining
the point of entry and the point of exit?
Dr. GREGORY. There is a suggestion to be seen in Exhibit B, the lateral
view, a suggestion of the pathway as seen by distortion of soft
tissues. This has become a bit irregular on the dorsal side. There is
evidence of air in the tissues on this side suggesting that the pathway
was something like this.
Mr. SPECTER. And when you say indications of air on which side did you
mean by "this side," Doctor?
Dr. GREGORY. Air distally on the volar side. There is some evidence
of air in the tissue on the volar side too but they are at different
levels and this suggests that they gained access to the tissue plans in
this fashion.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you elaborate on just what do you mean by "this
fashion," indicating the distinctions on the level of the air which
suggest that conclusion to you?
Dr. GREGORY. Recall that I suggested that the wound of entrance,
certainly the dorsal wound lay some distance, 5 cm. above the wrist
joint, approximately here, that the second wound considered to be the
wound of exit was only 2 cm. above this point, making the pathway an
oblique one.
Mr. DULLES. Would you show that on your own wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes.
Mr. DULLES. We have to explain this a little for the record but I think
it would be very useful.
Dr. GREGORY. I think you will have an opportunity to see the real thing
a little later if the Governor makes his appearance here.
But the wound of entry I considered to be, although on his right hand,
of course, to be approximately at this point on the wrist, and the
wound of exit here, which is about the right level for my coat sleeve
held at a casual position.
Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show you made two red marks on your wrist,
which are in the same position as that which you have described
heretofore in technical language.
Dr. GREGORY. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Had you finished the complete explanation on the indicator
from the air levels which you had mentioned before?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes. The air is a little bit more visible to the dorsal
surface, closer to the skin here, not so close down at the lower
portion, not so much tissue destruction had occurred at the point of
the emergence.
Mr. SPECTER. Before proceeding to the other factors indicating point
of entry and point of exit, Dr. Gregory, I call your attention to
Commission Exhibit No. 399, which is a bullet and ask you first if you
have had an opportunity to examine that earlier today?
Dr. GREGORY. I have.
Mr. SPECTER. What opinion, if any, do you have as to whether that
bullet could have produced the wound on the Governor's right wrist and
remained as intact as it is at the present time?
Dr. GREGORY. In examining this bullet, I find a small flake has been
either knocked off or removed from the rounded end of the missile.
(At this point Representative Boggs entered the room.)
I was told that this was removed for the purpose of analysis. The only
other deformity which I find is at the base of the missile at the
point where it joined the cartridge carrying the powder, I presume,
and this is somewhat flattened and deflected, distorted. There is some
irregularity of the darker metal within which I presume to represent
lead.
The only way that this missile could have produced this wound in
my view, was to have entered the wrist backward. Now, this is not
inconsistent with one of the characteristics known for missiles which
is to tumble. All missiles in flight have two motions normally, a
linear motion from the muzzle of the gun to the target, a second motion
which is a spinning motion having to do with maintaining the integrity
of the initial linear direction, but if they strike an object they
may be caused to turn in their path and tumble end over, and if they
do, they tend to produce a greater amount of destruction within the
strike time or the target, and they could possibly, if tumbling in air
upon emergence, tumble into another target backward. That is the only
possible explanation I could offer to correlate this missile with this
particular wound.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there sufficient metallic substance missing from the
back or rear end of that bullet to account for the metallic substance
which you have described in the Governor's wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. It is possible but I don't know enough about the structure
of bullets or this one in particular, to know what is a normal
complement of lead or for this particular missile. It is irregular, but
how much it may have lost, I have no idea.
Mr. DULLES. Would the nature of the entry wound give you any indication
as to whether it entered backward or whether it entered forward?
Dr. GREGORY. My initial impression was that whatever produced the wound
of the wrist was an irregular object, certainly not smooth nosed as
the business end of this particular bullet is because of two things.
The size of the wound of entrance, and the fact that it is irregular
surfaced permitted it to pick up organic debris, materials, threads,
and carry them into the wound with it.
Now, you will note that Dr. Shaw earlier in his testimony and in all of
my conversations with him, never did indicate that there was any such
loss of material into the wrist, nor does the back of this coat which
I have examined show that it lost significant amounts of cloth but I
think the tear in this coat sleeve does imply that there were bits of
fabric lost, and I think those were resident in the wrist. I think we
recovered them.
Mr. SPECTER. Is the back of that bullet characteristic of an irregular
missile so as to cause the wound in the wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. I would say that the back of this being flat and having
sharp edges is irregular, and would possibly tend to tear tissues more
than does an inclined plane such as this.
Mr. SPECTER. Would the back of the missile be sufficiently irregular to
have caused the wound of the right wrist, in your opinion?
Dr. GREGORY. I think it could have; yes. It is possible.
Mr. SPECTER. Would it be consistent with your observations of the wrist
for that missile to have penetrated and gone through the right wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. It is possible; yes. It appears to me since the wound of
exit was a small laceration, that much of the energy of the missile
that struck the Governor's wrist was expended in breaking the bone
reducing its velocity sufficient so that while it could make an
emergence through the underlying soft tissues on his wrist, it did not
do great damage to them.
Mr. SPECTER. Is there any indication from the extent of the damage
to the wrist whether the bullet was pristine, that is: was the wrist
struck first in flight or whether there had been some reduction in the
velocity of the missile prior to striking the wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. I would offer this opinion about a high velocity rifle
bullet striking a forearm.
Mr. SPECTER. Permit me to inject factors which we have not put on the
record although it has been brought to your attention previously:
Assume this is a 6.5-millimeter missile which was shot from a rifle
having a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second, with
a distance of approximately 160 to 200 feet between the weapon and the
victim; and answer the prior question, if you would, Dr. Gregory, with
those factors in mind?
Dr. GREGORY. I would fully expect the first object struck by that
missile to be very badly damaged, and especially if it were a rigid
bone such as the wrist bone is, to literally blow it apart. I have had
some experience with rifle wound injuries of the forearm produced by
this type of missile, and the last two which I attended myself have
culminated in amputation of the limb because of the extensive damage
produced by the missile as it passed through the arm.
Considerably more than was evidenced in the Governor's case either by
examination of the limb itself or an examination of these X-rays.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, as to the experience you had which you experienced
which resulted in amputations, what was the range between the weapon
and the victim's limb, if you know?
Dr. GREGORY. The range in those two instances, I concede was
considerably shorter but I cannot give you the specific range. By short
I mean perhaps no more than 15 or 20 yards at the most.
Mr. SPECTER. Would the difference between the 15 or 20 yards and the
160 to 250 feet make any difference in your opinion, though, as to the
damage which would be inflicted on the wrist had that bullet struck it
as the first point of impact?
Dr. GREGORY. No, sir; I don't think it would have made that much
difference.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know what the color was of the fragments in the
wrist of the Governor, Dr. Gregory?
Dr. GREGORY. As I recall them they were lead colored, silvery, of that
color. I did not recall them as being either brass or copper.
Mr. SPECTER. Are there any other X-rays of the Governor's wrist which
would aid the Commission in its understanding of the injuries to the
wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. Only to indicate that there were two fragments of metal
retrieved in the course of dealing with this wound surgically.
For the subsequent X-rays of the same area, after the initial surgery
indicate that those fragments are no longer there.
And as I stated, I thought I had retrieved two of them. The major one
or ones now being missing. The small one related to the bone or most
closely related to the bone, and I will put back up here----
Mr. SPECTER. On the new X-rays which you put up, would you identify
them first by indicating the date the X-ray was taken?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes; the date of the X-ray is the same, November 22,
1963, and they may be identified as Exhibit "C" anteroposterior view
postoperative, which is this one.
Mr. SPECTER. Did they bear the same numbers, Dr. Gregory?
Dr. GREGORY. They will bear the same numbers; yes.
Mr. DULLES. I think you had better get them marked.