Mr. BELIN. To Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. No; have not said. However, I said to Mrs. Paine to be
more careful.
Mr. BELIN. What did Mrs. Paine say to that?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. She said, "don't worry." Mrs. Paine is an American
woman, and she is very naive, as all Americans are naive, nice, and
very generous.
Mr. BELIN. Are you a citizen, Mrs. Gravitis?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Are you coming here voluntarily to testify before the
Warren Commission, the President's Commission on the Assassination of
President Kennedy?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Yes; we received a letter from Washington, of course.
Mr. BELIN. But you are here voluntarily to testify here? You have been
asked to come here?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Nobody dragged us here; yes. We certainly volunteered,
if you interpret it that way.
Mr. BELIN. Is there any other information you can give about Lee Harvey
Oswald or Marina Oswald that you feel might be helpful in any way?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. You mean personal opinion?
Mr. BELIN. Go ahead.
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Mrs. Paine told me that Oswald--I did not know her
last name, she always called her Marina and Lee--so Mrs. Paine told
me that Lee wants to send his wife to the Soviet Union. I asked why.
She said, "She was pregnant." And she said, "Lee said that he doesn't
have money to pay doctor bills, but had enough money to send her back
to the Soviet Union." I said that this isn't true. I was surprised,
and I replied that this isn't true, because it is possible if a person
doesn't have money, that medical help would be given for free here in
the States. That is, Mrs. Paine was surprised if this could be true,
that we could get local free help. I suggested to her to contact her
personal physician and he will send Marina somewhere.
She said I will go on my way back from vacation and pick up Marina and
bring her. And then when she got back, she called me again and said she
is very happy for this suggestion, that Marina got free medical help,
had another baby, and even the doctor offered with her dental work,
and she said the treatment was excellent in the hospital. I was very
surprised how Mrs. Paine didn't know, and Oswald being also an American
didn't know that local help or local medical help is available to
people who don't have money.
Mr. BELIN. Did Mrs. Paine or Marina Oswald or anyone say anything more
to you about Marina Oswald or Lee Harvey Oswald that you think should
be noted here, that we should discuss?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Maybe, but I don't remember right now.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else that you care to add?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Mrs. Paine told me that Lee is very bad husband, that he
even hit her, Marina.
Mr. BELIN. When did Mrs. Paine tell you this?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. When she went to pick up Marina in New Orleans. She
said, "I have to go in person to pick her up because I cannot write
her things like that, that Lee would read her letters and then would
reprimand his wife."
Mr. BELIN. Did she say whether Marina said that this had been
different, that Lee had always been this way about hitting his wife,
or was this something different that happened when they came to New
Orleans?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Marina did not tell me.
Mr. BELIN. I mean Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. I didn't ask and she didn't say.
Mr. BELIN. Is there any other information that you can think of that
might be helpful here?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Mrs. Paine was at our house the first of April of this
year, 1964. I asked if she thought if Marina would know if Lee had
intended to kill somebody, or President. And Mrs. Paine replied that
she thought that Marina did not know. However, she felt that Marina
knew that Oswald was in Mexico, but she didn't tell Marina.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean she didn't tell Marina?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Excuse me, Marina didn't tell Mrs. Paine. Marina knew
that Oswald was in Mexico, but about his being there, didn't tell Mrs.
Paine.
Mr. BELIN. Why do you feel that Mexico was very important?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Because I felt that he was preparing himself for a trip
somewhere; either Cuba or somewhere else.
Mr. BELIN. But this is just a feeling, or did you have any facts upon
which to base it?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. No; this is my personal feeling.
Mr. BELIN. Any other facts that you know of that might be helpful here?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. I would help you more, but I don't have enough
acquaintance here in town that I really feel that I would know more. I
know Mrs. Paine beside her Russian tutoring so well, because Mrs. Paine
or her husband left her. She was separated or still is separated, so
Mrs. Paine more or less came to me an elderly person for advice. Her
husband came home after the President was assassinated.
Mr. BELIN. Why did he come home, do you know?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. I asked her, but Mrs. Paine said she don't know why. And
she still has domestic problems. I feel that he would like to make it
easier on her after that particular time.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of that might be relevant?
Mrs. GRAVITIS. No.
Mr. BELIN. Well, we want to thank you very much for coming down here,
Mrs. Gravitis, and also thank you very much, for your help.
Mrs. GRAVITIS. Thank you; Mr. Belin.
Mr. BELIN. Your mother-in-law has the opportunity to read the
deposition and sign it or make corrections. Do you want to come down
and do that with her some time, or do you want to waive the signing and
let it go directly to Washington?
Mr. MAMANTOV. She trusts you without signing.
Mr. BELIN. So you waive the signing?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Yes.