14,194. It was just a note of the total sum due to Mr. Leask?-Yes.
14,195. Have you not done so since the first year?-I think not.
14,196. When did you last take such a slip with you to the Custom
House?-I think not after the first year, so far as I can recollect.
14,197. The first year of what?-The first year, say, 1867; I think I
have not done it since that time.
14,198. Can you not tax your memory so far as to say whether or
not you had it in 1870?-I did not have it in 1870; I am quite sure
of that.
14,199. Nor in 1871?-Nor in 1871.
14,200. May you have had it in 1869?-I think not.
14,201. Was the last time you had it in 1868?-To the best of my
recollection I think it was.
14,202. May you have had it in 1869, although you don't
remember?-I think not, but I cannot be quite positive.
14,203. But you are quite clear about 1870, that you had no note
whatever of the men's accounts with you, except what was entered
in the account of wages?-Yes. I did not require it then. It could
do no good.
14,204. Why was it required in 1868?-Because sometimes the
men settled their accounts at the Custom House.
14,205. Would that be done often?-Sometimes; but not as a rule,
I think.
14,206. When these regulations were introduced, and you first
went up to the Custom House to settle, was it not intended that
all the accounts should be settled there and then?-That was the
regulation.
14,207. Was it intended that all Mr. Leask's accounts should be
paid at the same time that the men got their money handed over in
presence of the superintendent?-There was no formal proposal
about that.
14,208. Was it not done in some cases?-In some cases it was,
when the men agreed to do it.
14,209. Did the superintendent object to that?-He did not object.
The whole money was paid down to the men, and sometimes they
gave back what they knew they had to give back.
14,210. Would that be done in one half of the cases?-I could not
speak to a proportion.
14,211. When they did not hand back then what was due to Mr.
Leask, what was done?-They handed it back when they came
down to the office afterwards.
14,212. Do they come down to the office now and pay their
accounts after being settled with at the Custom House?-Yes.
14,213. Do you settle with five or six or a dozen of them at a time,
as the case may be?-Yes, any number, from one up to a dozen, or
perhaps more.
14,214. Is the settlement with these men after they have got their
cash always carried out and finished on the same day at Mr.
Leask's office?-Yes, invariably.
14,215. Do they come straight down from the Custom House to the
office and pay their accounts there?-They generally come in the
course of the day.
14,216. Do they come down along with you?-If it is only one
man who has been settled with, perhaps we will come down
together, and perhaps not, just as it happens. I have no fear for
them coming down. I never bother my head about them after I
give them the money.
14,217. Do you leave them to come down or not as they please?-
Decidedly.
14,218. Is there never a black sheep to whom you have to suggest
the propriety of coming straight down?-The men know they have
the money to pay, and they look upon it as a just debt.
14,219. Is there not a note kept if a man fails to come down?-We
are not likely to forget that. There is no note of it kept.
14,220. Do you note the fact that you have settled with him for his
wages and oil-money?-Yes. The account is squared at once as
soon as we come down from the Custom House.
14,221. Do you not note the fact in some form or [Page 355] other,
that the man has not come down to settle his account when he has
failed to do so?-No, the book would show that without any note.
I may say, however, that I have scarcely ever had a case of that
kind, except it may be one.
14,222. Was that Robert Grains?-Yes; and even he did come
down ultimately and settle his account. He was settled with along
with about a dozen others, and they all went down. Some of them
had been settled with before I came down from the Custom House,
but he did not come until I came myself.
14,223. Did he come down with you?-No; he came down
himself. I believe the other lads induced him to come back to
the shop and settle his account.
14,224. Had he at first refused to do so?-He had been telling the
lads that he was going to keep the money or most of the money. I
think they said he wanted to go right away and never come near
the shop at all, but they induced him to come.
14,225. Did he give any reason for wanting to go away?-Nothing,
except that he wanted the money for some other purpose.
14,226. Was his account for goods equal to the whole amount of
his wages?-He had about £1 to get.
14,227. That means that he had all his money to hand over to you
except £1?-Yes.
14,228. Did you speak to him on the subject?-I did. I asked him
if he meant to swindle us out of the money for the outfit that he got
to enable him to go to Greenland.
14,229. Was it at the Custom House you said that to him?-No, it
was at the office after he had come down. He said no, but that he
required money to pay for a boat or to buy a boat, or something of
that kind.
14,230. Did that happen on the day of settlement?-Yes.
14,231. Had you understood before that he was intending to go
away without paying your account?-No, I had no idea of it.
14,232. Then how did you happen to ask him that question?-He
came back to the office after he came out from the Custom House,
and he was going to give back part of the money, but he wanted to
keep more than he actually had to get after paying Mr. Leask's
account.
14,233. But how did you know that he required persuasion to
induce him to come back and pay his account?-I recollect the
other lads telling me that they had induced him to come back.
14,234. Had they told you about that before Grains came down?-
I scarcely think so. I think there were several of them there along
with him when I came down.
14,235. Did he come down from the Custom House along with
you?-No.
14,236. Was he at the office when you came down from the
Custom House?-I am not quite sure whether he was actually
there when I came down, but most of that crew were discharged
that day. They had been landed the day before, and most of them
were discharged on the day after they landed.
14,237. I don't quite understand how you knew about Grains
having been unwilling to pay his account?-I knew it when he
came to the office to give back the money that I had paid him at
the Custom House.
14,238. Did he refuse to give you back the money?-He did; not
all, but part of it.
14,239. Did he want to pay only a portion of his account?-Yes.
14,240. Did he say that to you when he came to the office?-Yes.
14,241. Was that the first intimation you had got of his intention to
keep part of the money?-I think so.
14,242. Did you object to that, and tell him he must pay the
whole?-I did.
14,243. Did you intimate what the consequences would be if he
did not?-Yes; I daresay I told him that we would pull him up. I
considered that we had run a considerable risk in giving him an
outfit for his first year at Greenland, and that we were entitled to
get the advance repaid, because we might never see him again.
14,244. Have you had occasion to advise any of the men on other
occasions as to the propriety of paying agents' accounts, or giving
them similar advice to what you gave in the case of Grains?-No;
I think that was the only case which has occurred out of many
hundreds.
14,245. Have the men always walked down quietly enough to your
office?-Yes.
14,246. And often in company with you?-Very often. Perhaps, if
there was one, he came back with me; but, as a rule, I would often
stay behind for a little, or go down to the office by some other
way.
14,247. Then possibly the men may have gone to the office before
you?-They often did.
14,248. When you had a batch of them at the Custom House, did
you not send some of them down to the office direct, while you
waited to finish your settlement with the others?-They were
settled with one by one; and they went away as they were settled
with.
14,249. But as they were settled with, did you not send them down
to the office?-They went of their own accord.
14,250. Did you never tell them to go to the office?-They knew
to go.
14,251. Did you never tell them?-I have seen me telling them to
go as soon as possible, because I wanted them to be settled with
and away before I came down. Mr. Robertson generally would be
waiting for them, and he might have to go out.
14,252. Do you mean that Mr. Robertson would be expecting
them?-Yes.
14,253. And he might have other engagements which he had to
attend to as soon as their business was over?-Yes.
14,254. Therefore I suppose you may often have had occasion to
tell them to go down to the shop direct from the Custom House?-
I may have told them to go as soon as possible.
14,255. Did you not always do so?-No.
14,256. Did you not always tell them so when you thought it was
necessary?-No.
14,257. Do you mean that you may have thought it necessary for
them to go to the shop and settle, and that yet you refrained from
telling them so?-I never thought much about it at all. I just gave
them the money; and sometimes I would tell them to go to the
shop as soon as possible, because Mr. Robertson would be waiting
for them. Sometimes that was about the dinner-hour, and very
often they would not be there until I came down myself. I would
be engaged settling with them up till three o'clock.
14,258. Did you consider that it was not necessary on every
occasion to tell them to go back to the shop?-Yes.
14,259. Was that because the men understood quite well that
they were to go to the shop and settle their accounts?-The men
understood that quite well. They understood they had got the
money that was due to them from the shop, and they understood
that in general they had accounts in the shop for cash or goods,
and sometimes for advances to their families, and they required
no persuasion to go and repay these sums when they had got their
money.
14,260. Did they know that they were expected to go down to the
shop?-They were expected to go.
14,261. But did they know that they were expected?-They knew
it.
14,262. So that, although they might have had debts due to other
merchants, they were expected to go down and pay Mr. Leask in
the first instance?-Yes.
14,263. And you expected that, although those debts to other
merchants might have been incurred earlier than Mr. Leask's?-
The debt contracted on the voyage was the first debt to be settled,
and it was always understood that that debt had first to be paid,
because it was all incurred during the voyage.
14,264. You mean that it had been incurred for the purpose of the
voyage, and you held that you had a [Page 356] prior claim on the
proceeds of that voyage for the amount of your account, just as a
merchant has a lien on the supplies he furnishes to a shop?-Yes.
14,265. Would you have objected to the men going away and
paying the earlier accounts before they paid Mr. Leask's?-Of
course, if they paid them out of that money.
14,266. Had you instructions from Mr. Leask, or Mr. Robertson, or
any one in Mr. Leask's employment, to see that the men did come
down and pay their accounts?-I had no such instructions.
14,267. Did you consider that a part of your duty?-I did not
consider it to be any part of my duty at all. If I had a dozen men
to settle with, I settled with them one after another, and they went
away. I did not tell them to stay there until I came with them, or
follow them down by any means.
14,268. Was it no part of your duty to warn a man who was going
away without paying, that he had first to settle his account at the
shop?-No, I never saw a man who went away without paying.
14,269. But suppose the case of a man who did so: was it any part
of your duty to remind him of the debt which he was due to Mr.
Leask?-No. They did not require any reminding. They knew
quite well about it.
14,270. Why did you cease to settle with the men in the Custom
House after 1868?-Because the shipping master objected, and
would not allow it to be done.
14,271. Was it to you, or in your presence, that he took that
objection?-Yes, I was present.
14,272. Did he take the objection in any particular case when a
settlement of that kind was going on with the men?-No, there
was no particular case.
14,273. Did he do so at a time when you were settling with a
man?-Yes; either with a man, or two or three men, I forget
which.
14,274. What took place then?-The men just went to the office.
14,275. Did you remonstrate with the superintendent?-No.
14,276. You just went down to the office with the men, and settled
with them there?-The men went to the office, and I finished my
business at the Custom House and went down too.
14,277. Did you consider it a grievance to be prevented from
settling with the men in the Custom House?-If the men were
agreeable for it, I thought there was nothing wrong in it. It was
entirely with their concurrence that it was done.
14,278. Is there anything else you wish to say wish to say?-I wish
to say that I have examined the books, and I find that Mr. Jack
Williamson's rent at Ulsta was not advanced after Mr. Leask
purchased the property. I now show the valuation roll of 1860,
where it is entered at £8, 10s., and in 1871 it is entered at the same
sum. That rent included the farm and all accommodation-the
shop, beach, booth, and everything.
14,279. I see he was tenant of an additional subject in 1871, for
which he paid a rent of 10s.; and of grazing park at Ulsta at a rent
of £6?-Yes; but the 10s. includes the dwelling-house, shop, farm,
and all accommodation he had about the place.
Lerwick, January 27, 1872, ADAM TAIT, examined.
14,280. You are a shopman to Mr. Robert Sinclair?-I am.
14,281. Did you purchase a hap lately from Margaret Jamieson,
Quarff, who has been examined today?-Mr. Sinclair purchased it,
and I settled with her for it the time she sold it.
14,282. When was that?-About three days ago. It was a long
plaid she sold.
14,283. What was the price of it?-20s. in goods; and that was
paid.
14,284. To what extent did you supply her with goods?-I gave
her 19s. 6d. worth of goods and 6d. in cash. She wanted 3s. in
cash. I told her the bargain was made in goods, and I could not
give it to her in cash. Besides, there was no cash in the drawer at
the time. Then she thought of something else she wanted, and I
borrowed 6d. from the clerk in the end gave it to her.
14,285. Did you tell her that if she got 1s. 6d. in cash it would be
charged as 1s. 9d. against her?-I believe I did say that she would
be charged 2d. in the shilling if she wanted cash, as the bargain
had been made in goods.
14,286. Did you tell her that if she got 1s. in cash it would be
charged as 1s. 3d. against her?-No. I merely said it would be
2d. in the shilling. I might have given her the cash she asked if
we had had it, but there was no change in the shop at the time,
and I had to borrow the sixpence that I gave her.
14,287. On what day was that?-I think it was on Wednesday last,
but I am not certain, and about twelve or one o'clock in the day.
I recollect the transaction very well, as the woman seemed to be
ill-pleased when she went out.
14,288. Is it a frequent thing to tell a woman who asks for cash;
that there is no cash in the shop?-No; that does not often happen.
Lerwick, January 27, 1872, ROBERT SINCLAIR, recalled.
14,289. Do you wish to make any explanation with regard to the
evidence which has just been given?-I wish to say that it often
happens that we have no small change in the shop, unless we get
change for £1 and any cash that we get during the day is frequently
given out again for goods before night. Therefore it is no evasion
to say that there is no cash in the shop, because it is often the fact.
14,290. That happens in a great many shops, and it may happen
more frequently in a shop where the cash transactions are few and
barter transactions prevail?-Yes; it happens more frequently in
that case.
<Adjourned>.