14,035. Do you live in Quarff?-Yes.
14,036. Are you sometimes employed in knitting?-Yes, in
knitting and dressing. I have also a little farm which I work,
but I generally work at the knitting and dressing when I can get
that kind of work to do. The farm is my brother's but he is very
ill.
14,037. Do you knit with your own wool, or is it given out to you
by the merchants?-I always knit with wool which I purchase for
myself.
14,038. What kind of things do you knit?-Shawls, veils, haps,
plaids, and other things.
14,039. Are you always paid for these in goods?-I sold a plaid to
Mr Sinclair in the spring when I was unwell, and did not get it
settled for until the summer. The price of the article was 18s., and
I asked a halfpenny from him, and he refused to give it to me.
14,040. Did he not give you the halfpenny?-He gave it to me in
the end, because I had to post a letter, and I got the halfpenny from
him for that purpose.
14,041. Was the postage of that letter only a halfpenny?-No, but I
had another halfpenny of my own, and I required the halfpenny
from him to buy a stamp with. On Wednesday last I sold a plaid to
him for 20s. and asked 2s. in cash at the end of the settlement, but
they refused to give it to me. I then asked 1s. 6d., and they said if I
got that they would mark it as 1s. 9d. against me.
14,042. Who said that?-It was one of the serving-men in Mr
Sinclair's shop; I don't know his name. Then I asked 1s., and he
said it would be 1s. 3d. against me; but I refused to take it on that
footing. I then asked for 9d. which he consented to give me,
saying he did not have it in the shop, but that he would borrow it
from one of the clerks or serving-men.
14,043. Did he say he did not have 9d. in the shop?-Yes. I got
6d. and left 3d. due, which I could not get unless I took calico.
14,044. You did not put him to the trouble of borrowing the 9d.?-
He borrowed 4d. from one of the persons there, and he found 2d.
in the counter.
14,045. Do you think there was no money in the till at that time?-
I do not know anything about it except what he told me. I consider
from my own experience, and from what I hear from others, that
we are very much like the Hebrews of Egypt,-very much
burdened down with many things, and not able to bear our
burdens.
14,046. When you took the shawl in the other day, which you sold
for a pound, did you bargain that you were to get payment for it in
goods?-There was no bargain made about it.
14,047. When you sold the shawl in the previous spring, was it
marked down in an account, or did you get a line for it?-I got a
line for it.
14,048. Did you send in your shawl?-No; I went in and sold it
and asked a line, which I got.
14,049. Did you not want the goods at the time?-I got some
goods and the balance in a line.
14,050. But you did not want to take the whole in goods?-No, I
refused to do that. I did not want them until afterwards.
14,051. Does it often happen that you don't want goods when you
sell your shawls, and that you would rather have money?-We
would rather have money, because there are many things that we
require it for. There are many taxes we have to pay, and there are
many things we can only buy with money.
14,052. Would you take a lower price for your hosiery if you could
get cash instead of goods?-I don't know, because goods will help
us through a part of the year as well as if we got a little money. I
consider our hosiery is worth what we sell it at, even although it
was paid in cash.
14,053. Where do you get your wool?-I get it from any person
who has wool, and who will exchange it for a little tea or hosiery,
or a bit of calico or yellow cotton.
14,054. Do you spin it yourself?-Always. I am not able to get it
spun for me, because that has to be paid for in money, and I cannot
get the money.
14,055. Are you not able to pay for worsted?-No, because it has
to be paid for in money; and I am not able to put the wool to the
spinner, because that would require money too.
14,056. Do you sometimes have to pay money for wool?-If we
can get a day's work or anything of that kind to do, we may get a
little wool in exchange for it, but it is not very often we can get
that.
14,057. Have the people who sell wool generally a fixed price for
it?-Yes, according to the fineness or coarseness of it.
14,058. What do you pay for the finer wool?-It may be about 1s.
6d., according to the quality of it. I think the cheapest we can get
is 1s.
14,059. But you get it by barter; do you give goods for it at the
same price as you paid for them?-Generally we give a parcel
of goods, and they will give us so much wool as they think it is
worth. It is never priced at all; we merely give a small parcel of
tea in exchange for so much.
14,060. Do you sometimes buy wool at the shops in Lerwick?-
No, I cannot say that I ever bought any there.
14,061. Have you any sheep of your own?-Very few. We
sometimes get wool from them, but not much.
14,062. Have you sold wool from them?-Never.
14,063. Can you not get as much wool off your own sheep as
serves you for your own work?-No, we don't have so many of
them as that.
Lerwick, January 27, 1872, ISABELLA SINCLAIR, recalled.
14,064. Do you wish to say anything about the evidence which
Margaret Jamieson has just given?-Yes. I wish to explain that
those in the shop have no power to give money except by referring
to my father. Then with regard to the want of money in the shop,
it may have happened that my father had taken the money with
him to the bank, as very often happens. Frequently when there is
some small change in the drawer, it is given away upon lines or
something of that kind. I suppose that is the explanation of what
the witness has said.
14,065. But I suppose the practice is that you don't give money at
all unless you can help it?-If the bargain is made for money, then
we give money; but I don't see that we have any right to give
money when the bargain is made for goods, any more than if the
bargain had been made for goods we could compel them to take
money for it. Sometimes my father is [Page 351] very unwilling
to take hosiery, and would rather not buy it, either for goods or
money. That is frequently the case when he is not requiring the
article, or when the article is of inferior value.
14,066. Was what the witness said correct about 1s. 6d. being
offered to her in money for 1s. 9d. and 1s. for 1s. 3d.?-It depends
on circumstances. In some cases if an article was sold at 1s. for
goods, the person might get 9d. or 10d. for it in money, according
as the article was worth it. If it was an article which we had a
special order for, we would perhaps give 10d., because we would
soon get the money back again; but if it was an article that was
likely to lie for some time, we would only give 9d. for it.
Lerwick, January 27, 1872, JOHN ROBERTSON, senior, examined.
14,067. You are a merchant in Lerwick, and tacksman of the estate
of Lunna?-I am.
14,068. Have you a fish-curing establishment at Vidlin?-It is at
Skerries. We take a few fish at Vidlin, but there is not much done
there.
14,069. But you have a store at Vidlin?-Yes.
14,070. Have you also a curing establishment in Lerwick?-We do
very little with it. We sometimes take a few dried fish here.
14,071. You were present to-day and heard the evidence of some
men from Lunnasting parish?-Yes.
14,072. Do you wish to make any observation or any statement
with regard to that evidence?-I think there are no particular
observations I can make, except with regard to the difference
between the charges for goods in Lerwick and in the country.
We always have some additional expense upon the goods which
are sent to the country, but we make the difference as small as we
possibly can.
14,073. What should you say was the difference between the
prices charged at Vidlin and those which you would charge in
Lerwick?-Perhaps from 21/2 to 5 per cent.; but the fact is, that
for some things the prices are the same. For instance, cotton
goods are the same price.
14,074. Can you land them at Vidlin at very nearly the same price,
as at Lerwick?-Yes. The amount of freight would be very small,
and we make a point to sell them at the same rates. I put on the
prices myself, and I know that we sell these articles at the same
price as here.
14,075. I understand the men on the Lunna estate are under
obligation by the tenure on which they hold their land to fish
for you?-Yes, if they fish at Skerries. Mr. Bell has booths and
beaches there; and seventeen years ago he applied to me about
them. I was very reluctant to go into the matter at all, but he asked
me to assist him, and I agreed to do it, and we have been dealing in
that way ever since.
14,076. Has Mr. Bell an interest in that yet, except that he receives
his rent from you?-No. He has no interest in it whatever, except
that by his arrangement with me he is secure in getting his rent.
14,077. Have you any fishermen fishing for you who are tenants
upon other estates than that of Lunna?-Not at that place. I have
had several people in Nesting, on Mr. Bruce of Simbister's ground.
They have fished for me perhaps for thirty years; but it is very little
they do, and they generally give their fish dry.
14,078. Are these winter or summer fish?-Both winter and
summer.
14,079. What do you pay for a fisherman's summer fish of his own
curing?-Their own fish are generally never so well cured as when
cured by the merchants themselves. This year I paid the men £21
for their own cure, and I don't think I could get above that for
them. For my own cure the current price was per ton.
14,080. What were the circumstances connected with the case of
Peter Williamson who had come under an engagement to Robert
Murray at Swinister last season?-I don't know what engagement
he came under to Murray, but Williamson denied it to me. All I
can say about it is that he is a tenant of Mr. Bell's, and that when
he settled his account at Vidlin with me it was understood he was
to fish again; but one of his partners had engaged to go with
another boat of mine, and he (Williamson) did not know very well
whether he would manage to get a boat for the fishing or not. I
suppose he had made some kind of statement to Robert Murray
about that; but at that time Williamson was really very much
indebted to me. I had kept him and his family alive with meal for
year after year, and he was very far behind; and it would scarcely
have done to have allowed him to go anywhere he liked. I got a
crew for him, and then he was quite willing to go and fish for me.
I think he ought to have asked me first before he made any
promise to any other body, because he knew that it was the rule on
the estate to fish for me if they fished from Skerries at all. There
are many of the Lunna tenants who never fish for me, but who fish
for Mr. Adie or go to Faroe and Greenland, and I never stop them
from doing that at all.
14,081. It is not part of the understanding that any men who go to
Faroe or Greenland should go in your boats?-No.
14,082. If a man goes to Faroe or Greenland, he is free to go for
whoever he likes?-Yes.
14,083. Is he free if he stays at home?-If he goes to Skerries, as
there is an establishment there belonging to the estate, and which
must be kept up, it is understood that any man going there must
fish for me; but Mr. Adie has a good many of Mr. Bell's tenants
fishing for him, and when people go to Feideland I never interfere
with them.
14,084. Are there many of them who go so far as Feideland?-
Yes, a good many. The Delting tenants do that.
14,085. I understand you had a considerably smaller number of
men employed last year than you had some years ago?-Yes; they
had succeeded very well for two or three years previously, and
they had received a good deal of supplies, and I did not ask or
force anybody to go to the fishing unless they chose. I told them
that if they could do better otherwise, I should be very glad if
they did so; but I am sorry to say that those tenants who fished
elsewhere, or who went to Greenland, did not seem better off.
14,086. How do you engage your beach boys and curers at
Skerries?-I generally engage them by the week.
14,087. Are they mostly connected with the Lunna estate?-Yes,
generally; but sometimes I engage others.
14,088. Then you don't pay, as they do in other places, a beach fee
by the year?-We settle with them at the year's end. We cannot
very well do otherwise.
14,089. Are they engaged on weekly wages?-Yes.
14,090. That is to say, the wage is counted by the week?-Yes.
14,091. It is not a fee for the season?-No; it used to be, but I
found it better to pay them by the week, and let them know what
they have to get.
14,092. Is that wage fixed at the commencement of the season?-
Generally it is, but sometimes it is not. Sometimes we don't know
what the boys can do, as we have not tried them; and we like to
see what they are fit for before we arrange what they are to be
paid. We generally give them what we consider a fair thing.
14,093. These people, you say, are settled with at the end of the
year, and they have been taking supplies as they require them?-
Yes; they require little meal and other things to live upon.
14,094. Do they get these at Skerries in the course of the
season?-Yes.
14,095. And these supplies are accounted for at settling time?-
Yes.
14,096. Have the people so employed in curing generally a balance
to get, or do they generally exhaust [Page 352] their wages in
supplies?-That depends very much upon the disposition of the
party.
14,097. But what is the fact in the general run of cases?-We
generally have a balance to pay them. The dealings of these beach
people are usually small. They cannot be very large, but they
generally have a balance in their favour, and they get what is due
to
them in cash as soon as we ascertain its amount.
14,098. Do they get a small sum of cash, if they want it, in the
course of the season, for any particular purpose?-Yes; I keep cash
at the station for that particular purpose, so that none of the men
may be disappointed if they want it.
14,099. But I suppose it is a very small proportion which they ask
for in cash?-They cannot expect much. They don't need it.
14,100. They have nothing to do with it at a place like that?-No;
but whenever they want it they get it; and sometimes when they
get
cash, they don't put it to the best purpose. They are near a spirit
shop there.
14,101. Is that Mr. Adie's?-Yes.
14,102. Is his the only spirit shop there?-Yes.
14,103. Do you think people supply themselves more with
liberally with spirits and other luxuries in the fishing season than
they do during the rest of the year?-I think not, generally.
14,104. They are working harder at that time, are they not?-Yes.
14,105. And they would require a larger supply?-Yes; but the
men are not very much addicted to that. A few individuals may
be; but the men, upon the whole, are not extravagant in that way.
14,106. I noticed that a purchase of meal was made by Thomas
Hutchison in Skerries at your shop about January 1868. Can you
tell me what the current price of meal was at that date?-I was
told it was in 1867, and I looked up the prices for that year.
14,107. I have found, however, that it was in 1868. What do you
think the price was at that time?-I would not like to say, because
the price of meal varies so much; but I will look my books, and
mention what it was.
14,108. You were engaged in the herring fishing one time, I
understand?-Yes; and I unfortunately am a little engaged in
it still. It has been a complete failure lately.
14,109. What is the nature of the arrangement with the men in that
fishing?-The men are generally understood to have the nets and
the boats. The boats are their own property. If a crew wants a
boat, which costs from £17 to £18, I have to pay for it; but I wish
them to have the name of owning the boat, and I charge them hire,
although the hires really cannot pay the price. I wish them to call
the boats their own, and I do not debit them with the price, but it is
charged in a separate account to the crew.
14,110. Is that account debited yearly with the hire of the boat?-
Yes.
14,111. How do you arrange about the nets?-They are also
entered in a separate account for the crew.
14,112. How is the payment for the fish arranged?-The men get
one half of the fish for their labour, and the other half goes to the
credit of the boat and nets. It is entered to the credit of the boat
and net account, and the other half of the fish goes to their own
account.
14,113. Is there a fixed hire for the boat and nets?-There is no
fixed hire. We generally charge £1 for the herring fishing, and £2,
10s. for the haaf or summer fishing.
14,114. How long does the herring fishing last?-About six weeks;
but the men rarely go to it at all, because lately there have been no
herrings on the coast.
14,115. Then it is hardly a hire that is paid for the boat and nets,
but you furnish both and get one half of the fish?-Yes.
14,116. There is no account for the boat and nets, except that you
take one half of the fish and the other half is divided among the
men, without any other deduction, unless for the amount of any
account which they may have incurred?-Yes.
14,117. Is the price of the herring fixed at the commencement of
the season?-I never made any arrangement about that with them,
but usually paid the price which Messrs. Hay & Co. paid. But we
have got none to pay for lately at all.
14,118. How long has that fishing been in existence here?-For
four years with me, but there has been a herring fishing existing
here for a long time.
14,119. Are Messrs. Hay the principal parties engaged in it?-Yes.
14,120. Then the herring fishing here is not conducted on the same
principle as at Wick?-It is not.
14,121. No price per cran has been fixed at the beginning of the
season?-I think not.
14,122. Is there any particular reason for that?-I don't know any
reason for it at all.
14,123. I suppose it has been rather assimilated to the other fishing
speculations of Shetland?-I believe so.
14,124. The arrangement you enter into is as nearly as possible the
same as exists in the other branches of the fishing trade here?-
Yes.
14,125. There is a settlement at the end of the year for the summer
fishing?-Yes. The men are settled with for both branches of the
fishing together.
14,126. In a letter which you wrote and sent along with the returns
you have made, you say, 'In the year 1868 I paid about £300 in
cash advances for the people on the herring fishing alone, which
has since then turned out a complete failure. These circumstances
account for the large amount of debt shown to be due in the year
1870.' Does that mean that when the people went to the herring
fishing you had to make considerable advances to them in cash?-
I may explain that these men had been fishing for Mr. Adie, and a
number of them were due him money on account, and I paid all
their advances and cleared them off with Mr. Adie. I took them
into my own hands, and of course these sums had to be debited in
the men's accounts.
14,127. At that time had you gone into the herring fishing more
largely than before?-Yes.
14,128. Had you no men engaged in the herring fishing then who
had been fishing for you in the home fishing before?-No, I had
not been in the herring fishing for twelve years before.
14,129. But had you any man who had been engaged in the home
fishing of the year before for you?-Yes; the men had all been
engaged at the ling fishing for me, but they fished for Mr. Adie in
the herring fishing as soon as the ling fishing was over, and some
of them seemed anxious for a change, and others not.
14,130. For what change?-That I should have the herring fishing
as well as the ling fishing. It was their own request that I should
begin the herring fishing again, and I thought it was as well to do
it.
14,131. Had they had accounts with Mr. Adie, as regards the
herring fishing, separate from what they ran for the time they
were employed in the ling fishing with you?-Yes.
14,132. Did Mr. Adie go out of the herring fishing altogether when
these men left him?-No. He is in it still, but he had not so many
hands employed in after they left him as he had before.
14,133. You thought it a reasonable thing, when you took away his
herring fishers, that you should take their accounts with them?-
Yes; that was suggested by some of the men to me, and I intimated
to Mr. Adie that some of the men wanted it, and that it would be as
well to carry it out.
14,134. Did the men say to you that they had accounts with Mr.
Adie?-I knew that.
14,135. And perhaps they demurred a little, or felt little difficulty
in leaving him in that state of matters?-They did not say much
about that, but I thought it was fair to clear Mr. Adie if I took away
the men who had been engaged to him.
14,136. Have you ever known such an arrangement [Page 353]
being made when a change of employment took place in any other
branch of the fishing business?-No.
14,137. If a man shifted from one employer to another in the home
fishing, has it been usual for the new employer to take over any
debt that the man may have incurred to the previous employer?-I
should suppose that would be reasonable, but I am not aware that it
has been generally the case.
14,138. Have you known any instances where it has occurred?-I
think I remember one or two instances.
14,139. But you don't know of any special arrangement between
merchants to that effect?-No.
14,140. And you have not entered into any such arrangement
yourself?-No.
14,141. Did any of the men object to the debt which they had
incurred to Mr. Adie being transferred to you?-No; I think they
were rather pleased at it, because they were afraid Mr. Adie
would have been hard upon them for it.
14,142. Might he have been harder after they left his service?-
There is no doubt he would, and he would have had a right to be
so.
14,143. Do you purchase kelp on the Lunna estate?-Yes.
14,144. Does your tack include a lease of the kelp shores?-In
point of fact I have no tack, but merely a letter, and just now I am
acting upon a verbal agreement from year to year. I can give it up
whenever I choose, on giving it short intimation.
14,145. Does that arrangement include the kelp shores?-Yes.
14,146. What is the price allowed by you for kelp?-4s. 6d. when
paid in goods.
14,147. Is there a different price when it is paid for in cash?-Mr.
Sutherland manages that matter; but I am pretty sure that he pays
only 4s. in cash, and anybody can get that who chooses.
14,148. But I suppose most of them take it in goods-Many of
them do. It is it very convenient way for them, and the goods are
not charged any higher in consequence, but we consider that the
profit on the goods enables us to give a higher price.
14,149. How many of the women may be employed in that way?-
Perhaps about sixty, taking it as a rough guess.
14,150. All these people, I presume, have accounts open at the
shop at Vidlin, as I have seen to be the case in other parts of
Shetland?-Yes. We would be very glad if the accounts were
less, but really it is impossible to work with the people without
them. It is almost impossible to get the balances brought down,
but we never refuse them cash when they have it to get.
14,151. Do you purchase wool to any extent?-No, I don't do
anything in the hosiery line.
14,152. Do you think it would be possible to carry on the
fish-curing business here profitably without combining it with
the other business in the shop at Vidlin?-I don't see how it
could be done.
14,153. But supposing it could be done,-supposing the people
could get their supplies elsewhere,-would the fish-curer be able
to carry on his business at profit?-All they would do in that case
would merely be to take a commission, as they now do, for selling
the fish. They calculate upon getting that commission at present,
and that is what they would expect under another system; but the
people unfortunately cannot do without these supplies. Some of
the men, however, are well off. For instance, the man Laurence
Simpson, who was examined today, is very well off and can do
without advances. He can buy his meal wherever he chooses.
14,154. Would it be a profitable thing for the fish-curer if he
were content with that commission, without having a profit on
his goods?-Perhaps that might be done, but I don't know.
14,155. Is there any other point you wish to mention?-I have
heard some of the men who have been examined here, saying that
they would like their freedom. I have no objection to any man
having his freedom and being allowed to cure his fish for himself,
but I suspect such a system would destroy the character of the fish
in the country if it were gone into. The fish would be injured by it;
I know that by experience. The cure would not be so good as it is
at present.
14,156. But if the men had their freedom, would they not employ
a factor for themselves or would it not come to this in the end,
that the men would sell their fish to any curer who was most
convenient for them?-Many of them would cure their own fish,
which they do now in some places, but we never can get the
quality of the fish good enough when they are cured in that way.
They cannot be put in among fine fish, because the men do not
dry them so well as they ought to be, and they will not keep for
any length of time.
14,157. Would they not very soon find that out, and either employ
a fish-factor for the curing of their fish upon the co-operative
system, or return virtually to the present system and sell their fish
to any merchant who would take them, with the exception that he
would pay for them in ready money?-I am afraid any change of
that kind would affect the quality of the fish.
14,158. But if it affected the quality of the fish, the men would
soon find that they did not get so good a price for them?-Yes.
14,159. And they would either return to the old system, or to
some one under which the curing of the fish would be equally
good. The men would not be content permanently to take a
lower price?-They might be obliged to take a lower price,
although they did not know it.
14,160. But I have been told today that the Shetland people are a
very intelligent class, and they would surely have intelligence
enough to discover that they were getting a lower price than they
might get for their produce?-Some of them are intelligent, and no
doubt they would discover that.
Lerwick, January 27, 1872, ANDREW B. JAMIESON, examined.
14,161. Are you a clerk in the employment of Mr. Leask?-I am.
14,162. How long have you been in his service?-About nineteen
years.
14,163. Have you been principally concerned with the engagement
and settling with seamen employed in the Greenland whale
fishing?-Principally, of late, since the settlement at the Custom
House was commenced. That was five years ago.
14,164. Were you not employed in that way before?-Yes; not
altogether, but along with others.
14,165. Before that time, the accounts of the men, I understand,
were always settled at Mr. Leask's office?-Always.
14,166. And the men were paid merely the balance in cash?-
They were paid the balance, but they had to get cash during the
currency of their account besides that. They always got advances
of cash in the course of the year if they wanted them.
14,167. The balance that was paid to them at the end in cash
was the settlement for their wages and their first payment of
oil-money?-Yes.
14,168. Was the settlement for the final payment of oil-money
generally made at a later period?-Always at a later period.
14,169. Was there always a settlement before the last payment of
oil-money became due?-Always, except when they happened to
be in debt.
14,170. They might be in debt to a greater amount than anything
that was due to them?-They might, but of course, if a man had
money to get, he was sure to come forward when he required it.
14,171. Were the accounts which were run with the men at that
time larger than you now allow them to incur?-I should say not.
[Page 354]
14,172. Are there some men even now who are indebted at
settlement to the full amount of their wages and oil-money?-
Very few.
14,173. But that does occur?-It may be the case with some of the
young hands.
14,174. Does that happen now as often as formerly?-I daresay it
does. It depends on the success of the voyage; but we are rather
more particular now than we used to be.
14,175. In what way are you more particular now?-We know
better what time the voyage will occupy and we always keep
within the mark as far as possible.
14,176. Is there less security now for getting your money paid at
the proper time than there was formerly?-I cannot say that we
have experienced that.
14,177. Previous to 1867, you said the settlement of the men's
accounts generally took place before the last payment of oil-money
was due?-Yes, always.
14,178. Was that not so only in the greater number of cases?-It
was always the case. The final payment was only a few shillings
in general, and it was usually a considerable time before the
owners advised us what amount of oil the vessel had turned out;
so that if a man had the bulk of his wages to get, he generally got
them a long time before the second payment of oil-money came.
14,179. Was the second payment usually made before the man
engaged for another voyage if he was going?-In some cases; but
if the man lived at a considerable distance from Lerwick, he would
not come in for the few shillings which were due him for his
second payment until he was about to engage again.
14,180. How was that second payment made? Was it in money, or
generally in goods?-If the man had the money coming to him, it
was usually paid in money; but sometimes he may have got a little
advance on his second payment.
14,181. If that was the case it would be in his account?-Yes, a
continuation of his previous account; but we did not care much
about advancing on second payments, because they were so
uncertain. The vessel might not turn out nearly so much as was
expected.
14,182. You are aware that a new system was introduced about
1867 or 1868?-Yes.
14,183. And since that time you have been employed in going up
to the Custom House to settle with the men?-Yes.
14,184. Do you take a quantity of cash up with you and hand it
over to the men in presence of the superintendent?-Yes.
14,185. Have you, since that system began, invariably taken up
your ledgers containing the men's accounts, or any note of the
amount of their accounts, with you?-Of course we have never
taken up the books.
14,186. Did you at any time take any notes or abstracts of the
men's accounts?-I always took a note of the sum which each
man had to get.
14,187. Was that a note of the sum which each man had to get for
wages and oil-money?-No; it was a note of the actual amount
due to the men, because each man had an account of wages
furnished to him previously.
14,188. Had he received that from the captain?-No; the account
of wages was made up by the agent on shore from the captain's
store-book.
14,189. Is that account of wages always made up by the agent and
handed to the men before settlement?-Yes.
14,190. Is it not sometimes taken up with you to the settlement?-
The man always carries it up with him.
14,191. When you go up to the Custom House, are you provided
with any note of the amount of the man's account due to Mr.
Leask?-In the first years, I think we had that occasionally.
14,192. In what form did you take that up?-Just slip.