on November 17, 1869, referred to cash advanced to him for the
purpose of paying his rent?-Yes. He was at that time £2, 11s.
61/2d. in my debt upon the settlement of the previous year. After a
bad year I have to advance money to the fishermen in that way, in
order to prevent them from being turned out.
9066. Here [showing] is an account of Janet Sinclair, Herra: who is
she?-She keeps a small shop of her own, and sells things for me
at Herra and buys worsted for me.
9067. Have you many women employed in that way selling goods
for you?-Only that one.
9068. In another account there is meal 3s.-that would be half a
lispund-in August 1871: was that the selling price at the time?-
Very likely it was.
9069. There is also flour 1s. 2d. on the same date: how much was
that?-8 lbs., or a peck.
9070. Where do you get your supplies of meal and flour?-Chiefly
from Lerwick, from R. & C. Robertson.
9071. Would you consider yourself likely to drive a much larger
business if you had a number of fishermen in your employment?-
I don't know. Of course there would be more men and more stir
and more traffic, and I would likely turn over more goods, because
if the men could buy as cheaply from me they would not go
anywhere else.
9072. Have you ever had any difficulty in getting the men from
another merchant to fish for you in consequence of them being in
debt to that other merchant-I never tried that.
9073. But have you found that men had difficulty in engaging with
you on that account?-No.
9074. Have you ever been asked by any merchant to undertake the
debt due to him by any man whom you employed?-I have never
been asked by the merchant, but I have been asked by the men for
a little money to clear off their account with another merchant
when I engaged them.
9075. Have you been asked to be a security for them?-No. I have
only given them cash.
9076. When did you do that last?-It is five years ago. There
was a boat's crew who left Pole, Hoseason, & Co. at that time and
came over to me. That was Basil Ramsay's boat.
9077. And you advanced them money with which to pay their debt
to Pole, Hoseason, & Co.?-Yes; there was a little advance
required.
9078. Do you suppose you will have that to do with the boats'
crews you have engaged this year?-I don't think so.
9079. Do you know whether they are clear?-I don't know.
9080. How do you ascertain the current price at the end of the year
for settling with your men?-We know what the fish cost, and we
know what they sell for. We know what the wet fish turn out dry.
We can make a calculation of that from the quantity of green fish
delivered to us and from the quantity of dry fish which we have to
sell.
9081. How much was the proportion in your settlement last
year?-I cannot tell exactly what it was last year, but on an
average it is 2 cwt. 14 lbs. to 2 cwt. 20 lbs. of wet fish to 1 cwt.
of dry fish.
9082. Do you make the allowance according to the proportion you
ascertain in each year to exist between your total weight of dry fish
and your total weight of green fish?-Yes; there are calculations
of that kind made. I don't do it personally, but I believe some of
the big curers do it, and then we pay after them.
9083. Do all the large curers agree upon a certain average for
each year?-No; they don't make each other acquainted with that.
They just pay according to what they sell the fish for, and they give
the fishermen the benefit of the rise or fall in the market.
[Page 220]
9084. I am not talking of the average of the current price; I am
talking of the average weight of the dry fish as against the green.
Does each merchant make his own calculation with regard to
that?-I suppose so. I have made calculations in some years, and
in others I have not.
9085. How do you take it when you do not make it calculation?-I
wait until I see what is current, and then I pay the same.
9086. That is for the money price, but the current price depends on
the proportion of dry fish to green?-Yes.
9087. You find out what the large curers have been selling for or
have been allowing their men, and you give the same?-Yes.
9088. Are you aware whether all the large curers give the same
current price or does it vary with the different houses?-In North
Yell, Spence & Co. have some fishermen, and Pole, Hoseason, &
Co. have some. We hear what their men are paid, and then our
men are paid the same.
9089. Do Pole Hoseason, & Co, and Spence & Co., so far as you
know, always pay the same rate?-Yes.
9090. Do you know how their current rate is fixed, or how it is
ascertained what the men are to get?-I suppose they just make
a calculation in the way I have mentioned.
9091. But you don't know anything about it except that you
hear what they pay?-No. I make a calculation for myself to see
whether it is over or under, but we tell our men that we will give
the current price stated for these parties if they will come and fish
for us.
9092. Is your bargain with regard to boat hire the price of lines,
and so on, the same with your men as Pole, Hoseason, & Co. have
with their men?-Sometimes it varies a little; it is not always
fixed. Sometimes we give the men half-a-year's hire off, as an
encouragement. They are what are called freemen, and we have to
give them some inducement before they will come to us.
9093. What is the usual hire in Yell?-The hire is divided into
two. It is £6: £2, 8s. for the boat, and £3, 12s. for the lines.
9094. Is that charged against the boat in the company account?-
It is just made up in the balance with the men, and settled for by
them. They always carry pass-books.
9095. Then that does not enter the company account?-No.
9096. What is entered in the company account?-It is just the
goods got for the supply of the men during the fishing season at
the fishing station. [Shows one account.] The North Yell account
is an account kept at the station in a pass-book. The boat's hire is
estimated before the earnings are divided into six; we make a
balance sheet of it, which is added up, and then we place each
man's balance to his account.
9097. When you make a deduction from the boat hire as an
inducement for the men to fish for you, do you mean that instead
of £2, 8s. you charge them only £1, 4s.?-Sometimes we take
more off than that. Perhaps on a £6 hire we will take off £3.
9098. Is not that a very liberal deduction?-Yes.
9099. You cannot have much profit on your boats when you do
that?-There is no profit on the boats whatever.
9100. What profit do you get on hiring out boats at all?-We get
no benefit from that. We only get little benefit from the fish and
from the goods sold.
9101. Is it usual to allow so large a deduction from the boat
hire?-I cannot say what is done by any one but myself. We
have not been in the habit of doing it much. We sometimes take
a little off the hire of the boat, in order to make it as moderate for
the men as possible.
9102. Are you doing that just now in order to induce fishermen to
come to you?-Yes. They come and say they will fish for us if we
will give them the currency, and perhaps half the hire down, or the
whole hire down.
9103. So that the deduction on the boat hire is really a premium
for them coming to fish for you?-Exactly.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, ROBERT SMITH, examined.
9104. You are now a fisherman and tenant at Burravoe, on the
land of Mr. Henderson?-I am.
9105. Were you formerly resident on the island of Samphray?-
Yes. I was there for 35 years.
9106. For whom did you fish when you were there?-For Mr.
Robert Hoseason, and his son-in-law James Hoseason, all that
time.
9107. Did the island belong to them?-Half of it did, and the other
half belonged to Lord Zetland. I lived on Mr. Hoseason's half.
9108. Were you bound to fish for them at that time?-Yes.
9109. Did you ever sell your fish to any one else?-No; we had no
occasion to do so, because we got the same payment from him as
from another.
9110. Did you never sell your winter fish to another?-No.
9111. Where did you get your supplies at that time?-From Mr.
Hoseason at Mossbank.
9112. You kept an account with him, and settled at the end of the
year?-Yes, every year.
9113. Had you generally anything to get at the settlement?-
Sometimes we had a few pounds to get, and sometimes we
could not afford to pay the balance.
9114. You never dealt anywhere else at all?-No; there was no
one else near hand that we could have gone to.
9115. Did you never think of going to Lerwick?-No; we went
very often to Lerwick, but not in the way of dealing. It was always
from Mr. Hoseason that we got what we wanted when he was
employing
9116. When you left Samphray you came to Burravoe?-Yes.
9117. Why did you leave?-Because Samphray was thrown waste
and made into a park for sheep and cattle.
9118. You have since lived at Burravoe and fished for Mr.
Henderson?-Yes.
9119. You have been a skipper of his?-Yes.
9120. Are you to fish for him next year?-I don't know if I will be
able to go; I am getting too old. I have been at the fishing every
year since 1820.
9121. Is it the bargain with you at Burravoe that you are to fish for
your landlord?-Yes.
9122. But you will not be put out of your land if you give up
fishing altogether?-No, not that I know of. I have no thought of
that at the present time; at least I have no knowledge of it.
9123. Have you spoken to Mr. Henderson about not fishing for
him next year?-I have not. I have not made a settlement yet.
9124. Did he not tell you that he would not remove you this
year?-No, he has not told me that; but I expect that he will not
remove me if I can pay my rent. He has been very kind to me.
9125. Are you sure that he did not tell you that you might remain
this year?-I am sure he did not, but he told me that he would not
throw me off while I was able to do anything. That is all the
security I have.
9126. What do you mean by doing anything?-Any employment
that he may put me to, or anything in the way of fishing if I am
able to go to it.
9127. Does not the payment of your rent depend upon your
fishing?-Sometimes it does; but if I have a cow to dispose of
and he requires it, he takes it. If he does not require it, I am at
liberty to dispose of it to any one that I can sell it to.
9128. When he takes it, how do you settle about the price?-It
generally goes into my account.
[Page 221]
9129. But who fixes the price that is put upon it?-I do. I ask
him if he will give me so much for it, and if I can get a better price
elsewhere I can sell it there.
9130. Did you ever sell a cow to anybody else than Mr.
Henderson?-Yes. I have not sold cows, but I have sold
young stots. About three years ago I sold three young stots-
one to Mr. Joseph Leask, Lerwick, and another to a man who
came round; I don't know his name.
9131. Did not Mr. Henderson want these?-No. He engaged for
one, and then when the man came about asking if he could get
beasts to buy, Mr. Henderson told him to call upon us for them.
9132. Did Mr. Leask and the other man pay the money down to
you for the beasts they bought?-Yes; it was sent from Lerwick to
me.
9133. Were you due rent to Mr. Henderson at that time, or any
account for goods?-Perhaps I was; it was very seldom that I was
not due him an account.
9134. Why was that?-Because the fishing often did not turn out
well.
9135. Did you ever go to any one except Mr. Henderson for your
goods since you went to live at Burravoe?-If Mr. Henderson did
not have what we wanted, then we would go to another for it.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, ANDREW BLANCE, examined.
9136. Are you a fisherman, living at Burravoe?-Yes. I am a
fisherman, but part of my time has been employed in the seal and
whale fishing.
9137. Have you any land at Burravoe?-Yes, I occupy some land
there under Mr. M'Queen.
9138. Have you ever been at the summer fishing?-Yes; I was
at the ling fishing for two years, one year for Mr. William
Williamson, who has lately left Ulsta, and the other year for
Mr. Henderson.
9139. When you were at Ulsta did you run an account for what you
wanted from Mr. Williamson?-Yes, a small account. If he had
any small things that I wanted, and if I saw that I could get them a
bargain, I took them from him.
9140. That account was settled at the end of the year?-Yes.
9141. And you got the other things you wanted at Burravoe or
Lerwick, or wherever you liked?-Yes.
9142. Where did you get most of your goods?-At Lerwick.
9143. Did you find it more profitable to get them there?-I don't
know that it was more profitable; but for a long time the most of
my accounts have been in Lerwick.
9144. How often have you been at the seal and whale fishing?-I
have been there every year for, I think, the last fifteen or fourteen
years.
9145. Is that the reason why most of your accounts are in
Lerwick?-I suppose it is.
9146. It is handier for you to have them there when you go to the
whale fishing?-Yes.
9147. What agent do you generally engage with for that fishing?-
Messrs. Hay & Co. I have always engaged through them, except
one season when I was engaged for six weeks by Mr. Leask. That
was for the sealing voyage in 1867.
9148. When do you generally go to Lerwick to engage for the
whaling?-About the end of February or beginning of March.
9149. Do you go straight to Messrs. Hay's office and tell them you
want an engagement?-No, I don't go straight there; but I have
always found them very favourable towards me, and therefore I
have always been inclined to go out from them.
9150. Do you get your outfit supplied there?-Yes, if I require it.
9151. Do you require a new outfit for the whaling every year?-
We always require something new.
9152. Do you also require supplies for your family while you are
away at the fishing, such as meal, tea, flour, and things of that sort,
and clothing?-Yes.
9153. Where do you keep your account for these things?-With
Messrs. Hay & Co.
9154. You always get an advance paid down to you when you are
first engaged?-Yes; we get our first month's advance, and then
we get a half-pay ticket.
9155. Do you always get a half-pay ticket?-Yes, those who
require it.
9156. But do you always get it?-Yes; I have got it ever since it
came up. I think it is only four or five years since it came to be
used in Shetland.
9157. Were there no allotment tickets in use before four or five
years ago?-No, not in Shetland. I never saw them before that
time.
9158. Do you leave your allotment ticket with your wife?-We
can leave it with any one we choose. I have generally left it with
Messrs. Hay.
9159. Did you write anything upon it when you left it with
them?-No.
9160. Is the allotment ticket an order to pay to you?-Yes, or to
any name which is signed on it.
9161. Was it generally taken in your own name?-I had to
mention the name of some person to be filled into the note, and
the name of any person that I wanted to draw the money was
signed there.
9162. What name did you generally give to be entered in the
note?-I forget; but I think the name of Mr. William Robertson,
in Messrs. Hay's shop, has been upon it.
9163. Was that done last year?-Yes.
9164. Was his name on it in 1870 also?-I cannot exactly say.
9165. But last year you know that it was?-Yes.
9166. And he was to draw the money on your half-pay allotment
ticket?-Yes; he has the ticket, and while he keeps it he knows
that no person can be drawing the money. They know that the
money is lying, but I don't think Mr. Robertson has drawn the
halfpay for me ever since the system commenced.
9167. Was the purpose of giving the allotment ticket to Mr.
Robertson, that Messrs. Hay might give your family credit for
goods in your absence; or was it a sort of security?-It was a
sort of security; but I had no fear about them providing for my
family, even although they had not got the ticket.
9168. You think they would have made the advances at any
rate?-Yes. They never refused either goods or money.
9169. But still the allotment ticket was a sort of security to
them?-Yes.
9170. When you return from your voyage do you generally go
straight home or do you take your wages at Lerwick?-I take
my wages at Lerwick.
9171. Before you come home?-Yes, if possible.
9172. Do you go up and settle before the shipping-master or
superintendent?-Yes, I must do that.
9173. That did not use to be done at Lerwick?-It did not.
9174. Why has it been done lately?-I don't know.
9175. Was it not because it was not easy to get the Shetland men
to wait for a settlement-they were so anxious to get home?-
Perhaps it was. I and several others have to go to the North Isles
and it is not every day we can get there. Staying one day in
Lerwick might make us stay half a dozen, or perhaps a dozen,
days; and therefore if we see a chance to get home whenever we
land we are glad to take it.
9176. Then you go back when you find it convenient?-Yes.
9177. And you go before Mr. Gatherer the superintendent, and
receive your wages in cash?-Yes; but many a time we have the
chance of getting our money before we leave Lerwick if we could
only wait another day.
9178. When you have an account standing in Messrs. Hay's books,
how do you settle it?-We go back to the shop from the shipping
office and pay the money.
[Page 222]
9179. How long has that been done?-I suppose for the last four or
five years.
9180. Before that, you had a settlement at the office, and only got
the balance in cash?-Yes.
9181. Is there any deduction made now from the cash you receive
at the superintendent's office?-Nothing except the advance of
our first month's wages, and the amount drawn under allotment
tickets.
9182. But when you give an allotment ticket in the way you have
mentioned, how do you do: do you get your half-pay handed over
to you in cash?-Yes, if it is not drawn.
9183. Is it sometimes drawn?-No; my half-pay has not been
drawn, so far as I recollect. [Produces four accounts of wages.]
9184. Who is William Manson, agent for master?-He is Messrs.
Hay's clerk.
9185. The only deduction here is for stores in the ship, and your
advance, and the fees?-That is all.
9186. Then in that year, 1870, you got the balance of £16, 3s. 6d.
paid to you?-Yes.
9187. What was the amount of your account at Hay & Co.'s?-I
don't remember in that year.
9188. Here [showing] is your account for 1871 when you had a
balance of £19, 2s. to receive: do you remember the amount of
your account, that year?-I do not.
9189. How much ready cash did you bring home with you when
you had settled on 25th July?-I am not quite sure, but I think it
was about £16.
9190. Then your account for the season would only be about £3?-
That was all.
9191. Would that be the whole of the supplies you got for your
family that year?-Yes; it was short voyage.
9192. Had you also a short and a very successful voyage last
year?-Yes.
9193. You have not got your final payment of oil-money for
1871?-No.
9194. Have you got it for 1870?-Yes.
9195. Was that settled for before the superintendent, Mr.
Gatherer?-Yes, it was paid at the custom-house. I think I got
an account of wages for that too, but I could not say exactly.
The oil on which the money was paid was 42 tons. The first
payment of oil-money was upon 150 tons, making 192 altogether.
9196. Was the whole of that paid at the custom house?-Yes.
9197. Are you quite sure about that?-I am sure enough.
9198. And are you sure you got an account of the second payment
of oil-money, although you have not got it now?-I am not sure
about that. I think I got an account of wages for that too but I
cannot say.
9199. How did you manage to keep the accounts of wages you
have produced, when you did not keep the account for the last
payment of oil-money?-Because I got these accounts of wages
when I was going home, but at the time when I got the account for
the last payment I was going away.
9200. Is your last payment of oil-money generally made to you
when you are shipping in the following year?-I never get it until
I am going away next year, and therefore it is easy to see how I
may have lost the papers which I got then.
9201. Have you any accounts running with Messrs. Hay between
the end of one whaling voyage and the beginning of another?-
Very often I have. If I require anything I send to Messrs. Hay for
it, or to any other man in Lerwick.
9202. Do you also get advances of cash from them when you want
them?-Yes.
9203. Do you generally settle with Messrs. Hay at the time when
you are engaged for the next year's voyage?-No. I settle with
them at the time when I get paid.
9204. But you don't get your second payment of oil-money until
you are going away for a new voyage?-I get it whenever it
comes; but I told you that last year I did not get it until I was
going away.
9205. Did that never happen before?-It has happened before.
9206. You have produced a receipt granted by you to Mr. Leask
for £1, 5s. 3d. in 1867: how does that receipt happen to be in your
possession?-That was a short voyage, only six weeks, in the
'Polynia' of Dundee and there were no half-pay tickets. I got an
advance from him, and when I paid the money again at the end of
the voyage the receipt was handed back to me.
9207. Was that advance given to you in cash?-No, I got my first
month's advance in cash, and then I got that advance in goods.
9208. Was that for your own outfit, or for your family?-I think it
was for my own outfit.
9209. Have you got payments of that kind frequently from the
agents who have engaged you?-No; that was the only one.
9210. Did you get your first month's advance in addition to this?-
Yes.
9211. Did you get it in cash or in goods?-I got it in a line to be
cashed a day or two after we sailed. I gave the line to Mr. Leask's
man, and got the principal part of it in money. Then they drew the
money from the shipowner after I left.
9212. You took your first month's advance partly in money and
partly in goods?-Yes, I think that was the way of it.
9213. And you got £1, 5s. 3d. in goods in addition to that?-Yes.
9214. Why did you want that amount of goods?-I have wanted
three times that amount, according to circumstances. For one
voyage I would require that amount, if I had not a good stock.
9215. Why did you not get the whole of your first month's advance
in goods when you say you were requiring them?-Perhaps I was
requiring money for some other purpose. I had perhaps to send
part of it home.
9216. Why did you not take the whole of your month's advance in
goods, and then get that advance in cash?-Perhaps I got more
than that in cash. That advance was only 25s., and I had £2, 10s.
per month.
9217. Did you get the whole payment of your wages for that
voyage before you left?-Yes, except the second payment of
oil-money. That second payment is made after the oil is boiled.
There is a calculation made when we come home with regard to
the whole amount of oil that is in the ship, and when we arrive
we are paid a proportion of that. Then, when the oil is boiled;
they see what it actually amounts to and we are paid the balance
of our oil-money.
9218. Then on this voyage in 1867, which you made for Mr.
Leask, you were advanced at sailing the whole amount of your
wages and the first payment your oil-money?-Yes.
9219. And all that you had to get afterwards was your last payment
of oil-money?-Yes.
9220. You got the whole of the amount in cash or goods?-Yes.
9221. But mostly in goods?-I could not say that it was mostly in
goods, because, except the £1, 5s. 3d. and perhaps 10s. of my first
month's advance I do not think I got more goods from them. I am
not sure; about that; but I cannot say that I got more.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, JOHN JOHNSTON, examined.
9222. You hold some land now from Mr. M'Queen at Burravoe?-
Yes.
9223. Do you fish for Mr. Henderson?-No; I fish for Mr. Adie at
the Out Skerries.
9224. Were you formerly a tenant on the Lunna estate?-Yes. I
left it seven years ago because Sheriff Bell's tenantry there were
handed over to Mr. Robertson, and were bound to fish for him. He
and I had disputed at one time, and I was not very well satisfied
about fishing for him. I was paying my land rent to the Sheriff,
and I thought that when a man was [Page 223] paying his land rent
he ought to have freedom to fish to the best advantage for himself
that he could.
9225. Where did you engage to fish that season?-At the Skerries,
to Mr. Adie.
9226. You thought you could make a better thing of it by fishing
for Mr. Adie, and you went to him?-Yes.
9227. What happened in consequence of that?-Nothing
happened, except that I must either be bound to fish for Mr.
Robertson or leave the property.
9228. Were you told that you must leave the property?-Yes; the
Sheriff himself told me that.
9229. Was Mr. Robertson his factor or his tacksman?-His
tacksman.
9230. To whom did you pay your rent at Lunna?-To Mr.
Robertson when he came to be tacksman, but the Sheriff
before that.
9231. Who first told you that you were to leave your ground at
Lunna?-The Sheriff himself.
9232. When was that?-The year before I left. That was nine
years ago.
9233. Was that when you had first engaged with Mr. Adie?-No.
I fished for two years for Mr. Robertson after that, after I removed
to Yell.
9234. Then why did you leave Lunna? I thought you told me it
was because you engaged with Mr. Adie that you were turned out
of your ground there?-No; it was not because I engaged with Mr.
Adie. It was because I would not fish for Mr. Robertson.
9235. Why did you fish for Mr. Robertson for two years after that,
although you were not bound?-We were fishing then at our own
freedom.
9236. Were you asked to sign any obligation to fish for Mr.
Robertson?-No.
9237. How did you intimate that you were not going to be bound
to fish for him? Had you a conversation with Mr. Bell on the
subject?-Yes. At the time when Mr. Bell's tenants were handed
over to Mr. Robertson, I was in the merchant service; but they
made a statement then that the tenants were to be bound to fish for
him.
9238. Who made the statement?-Mr. Bell and Mr. Robertson
made it after I came home. For the last ten years I have been at
the ling fishing. The first winter I came home I caught some cod,
small and big, and I salted them, and went down to Lerwick and
sold them to Messrs. Hay. Mr. Robertson got word of that, and
got an account from Messrs. Hay of the cod that I had sold. He
handed that to the Sheriff, who came to Lunnasting; and I was
called up and found fault with for not selling the fish to Mr.
Robertson as tacksman. He asked me my reason for that; and I
said that I had signed no agreement to fish for him; that I was due
him nothing; and that I did not see why I could not sell my fish to
any man I liked. Bell said very little to that; but he gave me to
understand that after that I was either to leave the property, or to
pay £1 of a fine if I sold my fish to any other person.
9239. Was that a written notice?-Yes.
9240. Have you got it now?-No, I have lost it.
9241. Did you pay the fine?-Yes.
9242. Did you not try to get off with it?-No.
9243. Did you think you were legally bound to pay it?-No; and
that was the reason why I would not stay upon his property. If I
could have got a 'downsitting' handy that suited me at the time, I
would not have paid it, because I did not think it right.
9244. Did you fish for Mr. Robertson after that?-Yes, for two
years.
9245. How did you happen to fish for him?-We just made a kind
of agreement with him, first for two years; but still we were not
satisfied, and as we did not wish to be bound to fish for him, we
stopped.
9246. Did anything more pass between you and Mr. Robertson or
Mr. Bell, about leaving the ground or about being bound to fish?-
No.
9247. Then how did you come at last to leave Lunna? Did you
give them notice that you were going, or did they give you notice
to quit?-I was on the look-out after that for some other place,
because I was determined, after paying that £1, which I was not
due to shift to a convenient place at the first opportunity.
9248. You got a place at Burravoe; and since then have you been
at liberty to fish for any person you pleased?-Yes.
9249. Do you get your supplies at Mr. Adie's store at Skerries?-
Yes; our sea stock, and all that we require during the fishing
season
9250. When you are at home, where do you get your supplies?-
Sometimes from Lerwick, and sometimes we get something from
Mr. Adie when we settle.
9251. Do you bring home supplies with you from Skerries?-No,
we never settle at Skerries; we settle at Voe in Mr. Adie's office.
9252. Have you an account at Voe as well as at Skerries?-Yes.
Our Skerries account for the fishing season is always handed over
to Voe, and it is all settled there.
9253. Do you sometimes bring a large supply of provisions home
from Voe?-Sometimes, and sometimes not. When we think we
can make a better of it, we will send to Lerwick for them.
9254. Have you not to bring them a good bit by land when you get
them from Voe?-Yes.
9255. Why do you take the trouble to carry your supplies so far as
that?-We have no particular reason for it, only we are there at
any rate, and we can get them there as good a bargain as we can
get them in Lerwick and nearer us, and it saves us the freight.
9256. How often do you go to Voe in the course the year?-Once
a year.
9257. When you go there to settle, are you asked to take some
goods home with you?-Not at all, unless we require them
ourselves.
9258. Of course you are not obliged to do it unless you like; but
don't they ask you whether you want any goods?-Yes, they will
do that. Sometimes Mr. Adie's shop people will ask if we are
requiring anything.
9259. Is that before you settle or afterwards?-It is generally after
we have settled.
9260. Does that supply go into the next year's account?-If we are
requiring the cash we have got, either for paying the land-master
or any other purpose, they will let the goods stand until next
account.
9261. But sometimes you got goods before settlement, and they
went into the past year's account if you did not want the cash?-
No. Since we fished for Mr. Adie, there were no goods we got at
that time which went into the past year's account. They always
went into the rising year's account, unless they were paid for in
cash.
9262. Sometimes you paid them in cash?-Yes.
9263. And in that case they would not enter any account?-No. I
generally pay all my goods with cash, so far as I can.
9264. Do you find them cheaper when they are paid for in that
way?-Yes.
9265. And that is what you do generally when you go to
Lerwick?-Yes.
9266. Have you generally had a balance to get from Mr. Adie at
the end of the year since you fished for him?-Yes, always.
9267. Could you get the same goods that you get at Voe as cheap
nearer home, and as good?-I cannot say.
9268. Is there any difference in quality between Mr. Adie's goods
and those you get at Burravoe or at Lerwick?-I cannot say that
there is. There is often a great difference in the quality of goods,
even although they are sold at one price, and as being the same
quality.
9269. Where have you found that?-I have bought tea on different
occasions at one place, and at the same price, and have found
differences in the quality. I don't think that was due so much to
the people selling it, as to the chest decaying. I have sometimes
found it good and sometimes bad in every place I have had it from.
9270. Do you take goods from Mr. Henderson's shop at
Burravoe?-I have had very few goods from him. I never had
any meal or tea from him. All I have got has been a few nails or
anything I required for my boats.
[Page 224]
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, ARTHUR ANDERSON, examined.
9271. You are a fisherman at Burravoe, on Mr. M'Queen's
property?-I am.
9272. Were you formerly a tenant and fisherman at Lunna?-Yes.
I was not very long a tenant, but I was a fisherman. I left it 7 years
ago at Martinmas, at the same time as Johnston.
9273. Had you been bound there to fish for Mr. Robertson?-I did
fish for him; but while I was a young man, and unmarried, they
could not compel me.
9274. Had you some land there afterwards?-Yes. I had some for
two years before I left.
9275. Were you told then that you were bound to fish for Mr.
Robertson?-Yes. The Sheriff told me that at the same time that
he told Johnston.
9276. Were you both together at the time?-No.
9277. Had you both been sent for at the same time?-There was
a meeting in a place near Lunna, and the whole tenantry were
told that they were to be under one control, and to fish for Mr.
Robertson. I think that meeting was held in the schoolroom. I
think both Sheriff Bell and Mr. Robertson were present.
9278. Did Mr. Bell tell you that he expected you all to fish for Mr.
Robertson?-Yes.
9279. What else did he say?-I was not very old then, and I don't
remember.
9280. Why did you leave Lunna?-I was in a double family, and
I thought the place I was in was too small for the whole of us;
therefore I thought I would try to look out for some place in which
to live.
9281. You did not leave it because you wanted your freedom?-
Not altogether.
9282. Had you been fined for selling your fish anywhere else?-
No.
9283. Do you know any other man in Lunna who was fined for that
except Johnston?-I don't remember of any.
9284. Who do you fish for now?-For Mr. Adie, the same as
Johnston does.
9285. Do you deal in the same way as he described?-Yes.
9286. How do you get your supplies, for your family?-Sometimes
Mr. Adie will send us meal for our families from Aberdeen or
from Leith, and we will pay the freight. It is not easy for him to
send it to us from his place at Voe, but he will send it from these
other places if we ask him.
9287. Do these supplies go to your account?-Yes.
9288. Do you ever get supplies anywhere else?-Sometimes in
Skerries, where we fish.
9289. These go into the same account, and are settled for at
Voe?-Yes.
9290. Do you bring goods from Voe at settling time when you
want them?-We always bring something.
9291. Are you asked if you want goods when you go there to
settle?-Yes; they will ask us if we desire anything.
9292. But you need not take them unless you like?-No.
9293. Do you get any goods at Burravoe?-Not very much. We
don't run very large accounts there.
9294. Mr. Henderson's shop is not very far from where you
live?-It is not very far.
9295. Would it not be handier for you to get your goods there?-
We don't run very large accounts with him. I might get my goods
from him if I was fishing for him, but when I am not putting any
fish or any produce his way I don't ask anything.
9296. Could you not get the money for your fish, and buy your
goods where it was most convenient for you?-We might.
9297. Did you never think of doing that?-No.
9298. Why?-I don't know.
9299. Do you think Mr. Henderson will charge higher prices from
those who do not fish for him?-I cannot say.
9300. You never were afraid of that?-No.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, GILBERT ROBERTSON, examined.
9301. You are a fisherman and tenant at Hamnavoe on Mr.
M'Queen's property?-I am.
9302. You are an elder of the Established Church in South Yell
parish?-Yes.
9303. How long have you been at Hamnavoe?-All my life. I am
56 years of age, and I was born on the property.
9304. Were you formerly bound to fish to the tacksman on the
property?-No; I have had liberty all my time to fish for any one
I liked, except for three years, when my landlord, the late Mr.
Robert Bruce, required us to fish for him. He succeeded to the
property about 1853, and it was in 1857 or 1858 that he required
our services.
9305. You have been a skipper for a number of years?-For two
years, but not for the last two years. I was two years at the whale
fishing in 1868 and 1869. In 1868 I engaged with Messrs. Hay,
and in 1869 I engaged with Mr. George Reid Tait. I got my first
month's advance laid down at the custom-house, and when I came
back I got the rest at the custom-house. If I was due a small thing
to the agent I went to him and paid it.
9306. Did you get an outfit?-Only a small thing. I had some
things myself, and it was only a few things that I required from
the agents. Anything that I required for my family I got from
Robertson & Co. I have had an account with them for a long
time. I have had as much as £7, 3s. from them in a year.
9307. Why did you deal with them?-I found them to be good
men. They always try to advance people as far as they can, and
especially people who strive to pay them back again.
9308. Have you ever fished in the ling fishing?-Yes; I have been
there for the last two years. The year before last I fished for Mr.
Henderson, Burravoe, and last year I fished for William Jack
Williamson at Ulsta.
9309. Did you run accounts with them?-Very little.
9310. Was that because you dealt with R. & C. Robertson?-Yes.
9311. Do most of the men deal with the merchants they fish for?-
They do, because they have no money of their own, and they
require their fishing to pay for what they get.
9312. Do they get their out-takes on credit?-Yes, until the fishing
is done, and then they clear it off. I had no dealings with these two
merchants except for my living in the summer time-meal and tea
and sugar.
9313. Were these for your company account?-Yes.
9314. Do you think you get your supplies cheaper from R. & C.
Robertson than you would get them from the merchants you fish
for?-I think so.
9315. And better, or at least as good?-Yes. If I send to Messrs.
Robertson for a sack of meal, I get it at the Lerwick price, with the
addition of the freight, but when the meal comes to a merchant in
the North Isles, he has to take a little profit on it besides.
9316. Are any of the merchants here supplied with their meal from
R. & C. Robertson?-I cannot say.
9317. Because if they are not they might possibly get their
supplies from the south, and land them here cheap as Messrs.
Robertson can land them at Lerwick?-They might. I believe
Mr. Henderson, Burravoe, fetches his meal from the south
occasionally.
9318. And as easily as the Robertsons can fetch it to Lerwick?-
Yes; he has just the freight between Lerwick and Burravoe to pay.
9319. But he might bring it by a sailing vessel from Aberdeen?-
He might, but it always comes by the steamer.
9320. Do you know as a fact that the price at Lerwick is less than
the price you would be charged meal at Burravoe?-It is a little
less.
9321. Do you also find that the quality of the meal better there?-
It is sometimes as good in Lerwick at a price of 2s., or 2s. 6d., or
3s. cheaper at Burravoe than it is in the North Isles. I have bought
flour lately from [Page 225] Messrs. Robertson at 16s. or 18s. a
boll, and have bought it as low as 14s. 6d.
9322. Have you bought any meal during the last year?-No; I did
not require it.
9323. But before that you found a difference of 2s. on the flour,
and 3s. or 4s. on the sack of meal?-Yes.
9324. Have you bought provisions or supplies from Mr.
Henderson, Burravoe, lately?-Not for a long time. Perhaps
I might buy a 1/4 lb. of tea or something like that, if I was at his
door; but I paid for it then, and there was no account.
9325. You say you have been quite free to fish for any one you
pleased except during three years: did Mr. M'Queen ever forbid
you to fish for Mr. Henderson?-Once. I think that was about
three years ago; but he (Mr. M'Queen) came to see that that would
not do and it was never more spoken of.
9326. Did you fish that year for Mr. Henderson?-No. I went to
Greenland; but in the following year I fished for him.
9327. Did you go to Greenland because Mr. M'Queen asked you to
do so?-It was almost because of him telling me not to fish for
Mr. Henderson.
9328. But you did not like to be interfered with?-No. If I paid
my rent to my landlord at the end of the season, I liked to be at
liberty to go where I pleased. With regard to the winter fishing,
it does not matter much, because they will pay ready money for it
whenever we bring in the fish.
9329. Don't you think it would be better if the people here were
paid ready money for everything, instead of running such long
accounts, and settling only once year?-It might, but I don't know
how things would go then. If we were to pay ready money for
everything that we got from the merchants, it might not come to
answer very well.
9330. Why is that?-Because if I were taking anything to a
merchant to sell, such as hosiery, and asking ready money for it,
I would not get so much as if I were to let the price lie in his
hands for some time.
9331. But don't you think the merchant would sell his goods
cheaper to you if you were paying him in ready money?-I
believe he would do that.
9332. Don't you think the people would manage their affairs better
if they had the money in their own hands?-I think so; because if a
man does a day's work, and is not paid for it until the end of five
or six months, he is not likely to do so well with it as if the money
was paid down to him at once and he could go where he liked with
it, to make the best bargain for himself in buying things.
9333. Is it not a great trouble to keep in mind all the things that
you have got to your credit-a day's work now, and your fish
again, and a beast, perhaps which you have sold, and then to
recollect all the outtakes you have had besides?-Yes. I have
sold few beasts now for several years, but I always got the money
paid down to me on the day when I sold them.
9334. You think that is handier than getting them put down into an
account?-Yes.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, JOSEPH LEASK POLE, examined.
9335. Are you a partner of the firm of Pole, Hoseason, & Co.?-I
am not a partner.
9336. Are you the manager at Greenbank?-Yes.
9337. You were cited to bring some books?-I was and I have
brought the only book which can give any information as to our
intromissions with fishermen. Our principal books are kept at
Mossbank, because that is the head-quarters of the firm.
9338. What books do you keep at Greenbank?-We only keep a
ledger into which the account of each fisherman who has one is
entered.
9339. Are there some fishermen whom you employ at Greenbank
who do not open accounts?-I don't know if there are any; there
may be one or two.
9340. In that account at Greenbank do you enter on the one side all
the out-takes of the fishermen, and on the other the sums which
are due to them for fish or any other matters?-No. The ledger I
have with me shows merely the shop accounts of the fishermen.
The ledger you refer to is kept at Mossbank.
9341. Are all the balances made at Mossbank?-Yes.
9342. Do the men go there for settlement?-No, they settle at
Greenbank; but my brother settles with them, and he brings the
book over with him and takes it back with him when he goes to
Mossbank again.
9343. What quantity of fish did you sell from Greenbank last
year?-About 54 tons of dry fish.
9344. What number of boats had you engaged to produce that
quantity?-We had 14 boats altogether. One boat had three men
fishing in it, another had four, and the rest had six apiece.
9345. Then the only book you have at Greenbank the ledger
containing the accounts for shop goods furnished to your men?-
That is the only book we keep there.
9346. Is there a woman's book besides?-No; we don't keep a
woman's book at Greenbank.
9347. Do you purchase kelp?-Yes, we do; and we enter it in the
kelp-book by itself.
9348. Is not that a sort of woman's book?-No.
9349. Is it not women mostly whom you employ at that?-It is
women mostly, indeed altogether, who are employed in making
the kelp at Greenbank.
9350. What quantity of kelp did you sell last year?-I think only
about nine tons.
9351. What price do you allow to women for kelp?-We have two
prices for kelp: 4s. in goods, and 3s. 6d. in cash.
9352. Is that a lower price than on the mainland?-I am not aware
that it is, but I cannot speak as to that.
9353. Then, of course, you have a fish-book?-It is kept at
Mossbank.
9354. How do your factors mark down the fish at landing?-There
is a book kept at Gloup, which is the station in summer, and the
factor marks the fish there. Then, as soon as the season is over,
the amount is added up and sent to Mossbank to be entered in the
fish-book.
9355. It is merely the amount of fish that is added up in the book
at Gloup?-Yes.
9356. And the balance is made in a separate book at Mossbank?-
Yes; in a ledger by itself, which is kept there.
9357. In that book the total goods supplied at Greenbank are
entered in a slump sum?-Yes. The fishermen keep their shop
account in one part of our business premises, and their slump
account, as it were, in another part.
9358. That is to say, that at Greenbank they check their shop
account?-Yes.
9359. Do they come to check it generally themselves, or do they
have pass-books?-Some of them get pass-books, and others do
not.
9360. If they have no pass-book, how do they check it?-I suppose
they check it from their own memory.
9361. Do they come for that purpose before settling time?-No;
they generally come about settling time.
9362. Do they not settle at Mossbank?-No; we settle with all our
Greenbank fishermen at Greenbank.
9363. Are your books brought from Mossbank for that purpose?-
Yes. As I said before, the principal of our business brings them
along with him when he comes to settle with the men, and he takes
them back with him when he goes back.
9364. Is it at that time that the totals of the shop accounts at
Greenbank are entered into the principal ledger?-Yes; and the
fisherman gets a note of the amount of his account from me. He
settles with me for that, and takes the note in to my brother, who
settles the whole account.
9365. Have you also a day-book at Greenbank?-Yes.
[Page 226]
9366. Is that for cash transactions, or do the whole of your
transactions first pass into it before being carried into the
ledger?-Almost all our transactions pass through it.
9367. What transactions do not pass through it?-If I happened to
be posting my ledger at the time when a person was getting
anything to be marked down, I might mark it straight into the
ledger without putting it through the day-book, in order to save
the trouble of posting.
9368. Do most of the fishermen whom you employ at Greenbank
and Gloup reside within a short distance of these places?-No;
they are scattered over the parish of North Yell, and a few of them
are in this parish.
9369. Your brother, when examined at Brae, mentioned the
properties which belonged to the members of the firm, and of
which he was tacksman, but I forget whether he mentioned if
there were any properties of which members of the firm are
tacksmen: are there any such?-My brother is tacksman of Mr.
Walker's property in North Yell, and Pole, Hoseason, Co. are
factors for George Hoseason of Basta, in North Yell, also. I think
the number of tenants on Mr. Walker's estate might be fourteen,
and the number on George Hoseason's may be nine or ten.
9370. Are these men bound to fish to you by the terms on which
they hold their land?-They are not bound by any written or
special engagement, but it is understood that they will fish to us,
and most of them do so.
9371. Are they bound to fish for you in the Faroe fishing?-No;
we have no Faroe fishing in connection with Greenbank at all.
9372. But you have at Mossbank?-Yes.
9373. If one of these men were to go to the Faroe fishing, would
you consider yourself entitled to the first offer of his services in
one of your smacks?-We would.
9374. Then there is an understanding to that effect?-It is
understood that these men will fish to us if we require them.
9375. In point of fact, do any men on these properties in North
Yell engage for the Faroe fishing with any other merchants?-
There are very few, if who go from North Yell to the Faroe fishing
now. It is principally young men who go there. I cannot at this
moment recollect any one who goes to Faroe from the north
district.
9376. The day-book and ledger and fish-book are, I understand,
the only books which are used at Greenbank and Gloup?-At
Gloup we have a sort of wastebook, in which any goods are
entered which are bought by anybody during the season when
we have goods there.
9377. But that is merely for the purpose of being carried into the
permanent ledger at Greenbank or at Mossbank?-At Greenbank.
These accounts, of course, are settled for at Gloup before the men
leave there.
9378. Are these company accounts?-Some are company accounts
and some are private accounts.
9379. Can a man have his private supplies at Gloup while he is
residing there as well as his company supplies?-Yes.
9380. Have you a publican's licence for the premises at
Greenbank?-No; we have a certificate for getting a licence if
we wish to take it out, but we have not taken it out for years. I
don't care for selling liquor, and therefore I do not take it out.
9381. How do the men get supplies of that kind: is there a
public-house in the district?-No.
9382. Therefore they must buy in a stock of spirits when they want
them?-I suppose so; but they very temperate class altogether. I
don't think they use much liquor.
9383. Do they not require it at the station and when they are going
to fish?-At the station we allowed to keep a small quantity of
liquor, with which to supply our fishermen during the season.
9384. Is that under the Excise regulations?-I understand it is. It
is my brother who takes charge of these matters; but I understand
the Excise permit us to have a small quantity, for the purpose of
supplying our fishermen only.
9385. Are your supplies of provisions and soft goods at Greenbank
furnished from Mossbank, or do you get them direct from the
wholesale merchants?-Generally we get them direct from the
wholesale merchants.
9386. Are they landed in Yell?-Yes.
9387. But I suppose they are invoiced to the firm at Mossbank?-
Yes.
9388. From whom do you get your principal supplies of meal and
flour?-I should prefer to give the names privately. [Writes the
names of two firms.]
9389. I see in your ledger the account of Lawrence Danielson,
Houlland: is that a fisherman?-Yes.
9390. I observe that cash is sometimes entered in his account: does
he come to you when he wants a small advance of cash for any
immediate need?-Yes.
9391. Are applications of that kind common, or does a man
generally get on without cash until settlement?-Occasionally a
man may require a little advance in cash, but, as a general rule,
any cash which we give out is at the time when the fishermen
settle. After man has settled his account, he perhaps does not
have as much money as he requires, and he may wish small
advance, and it is generally given to him. He may also get a trifle
occasionally at other times in the season, but it is generally about
that time that the bulk of advances in cash are made.
9392. Do you square off your accounts in the ledger after
settlement?-No; before the settlement.
9393. Then the entry here on November 27th, 'By Mossbank
ledger, so much,' means what?-It means that the account there
was transferred to the Mossbank ledger.
9394. And that indicates the amount which the man was entitled to
receive in cash, unless there was something standing against him
in the Mossbank ledger as well?-Certainly; there might be a
balance against him there.
9395. 'By amount of Gloup account, £1, 13s: 11d.:' was that
entirely for his supplies at Gloup during the fishing season?-That
was for the amount of his private account at Gloup; and that
account, as I have said, is settled between him and our factor at
Gloup, and is entered here.
9396. I see entries of meal, 1s. 5d. and 5s. 8d.: what quantity of
meal would that be which is charged 5s. 8d.?-It would be a
lispund, or four pecks.
9397. What is the quantity charged 1s. 5d.?-One peck, or eight
lbs.
9398. Was that the selling price of your meal last summer?-Yes,
by the peck.
9399. Do you charge less when a larger quantity is taken?-Yes;
we charge sometimes 1s. or 1s. 3d. and sometimes as much as 2s.
less per boll. The price per boll would be somewhere about 25s.
or 26s. when the lispund was at 5s. 8d.
9400. What did you sell meal at per boll last summer?-It is very
rarely that I sell bolls at Greenbank. Generally when a quantity of
that kind is required, we order it direct from the south, and it is
charged to the men at Mossbank.
9401. Do you purchase hosiery at Greenbank?-We do very little
in that way.
9402. I see one woman credited in the ledger with shawl: is that an
exceptional transaction?-Yes, most exceptional transaction. We
used to do a good deal in hosiery, but we found it was a very bad
speculation, and so we gave it up. We were losing money by it
every year: we would have been in the debtors' prison, I suppose,
if we had continued to go on with that trade.
9403. Are the women's accounts for kelp kept in the same
book?-Yes; if a woman is to be credited with kelp it is entered
there.
9404. Do you purchase wool?-No; but we have some sheep: at
least I had the management of some sheep this season, and I sold
the wool for behoof of the party who owned the sheep.
[Page 227]
9405. When you employ people to work for you, are they paid at
the time, or at the settlement?-We sometimes pay them at the
time, and sometimes at settlement.
9406. Are people employed in curing fish always paid at
settlement?-Not wholly. We have a class of hands who are
paid by beach fees, and another class whom we employ as day
labourers, and we pay these either daily, weekly, or monthly, or
whenever they like.
9407. Or at settlement, if they have an account?-Not necessarily.
Some of them may have an account, and yet be paid daily.
9408. I see in the ledger that one woman is credited on July 1st,
'By work in full, 7s. 7d.,' and the account is made up: that work, I
suppose, only went into the account. What kind of work would it
be?-It was dressing worsted.
9409. Then, on January 14, there is, 'By work, 3s. 2d.:' was that
dressing worsted also?-So far as I recollect, it was.
9410. I see here a special entry, 'By dressing, 3s. 9d?'-That is the
same thing only differently expressed. That woman dresses any
little worsted we may buy.
9411. Was that hosiery goods?-No; it was the worsted itself, the
yarn.
9412. Do you buy the yarn ready made, or do you give the wool
out to be spun?-We buy it ready spun and dress it, and send it
south.
9413. You don't get it made up?-We do not.
9414. But the dressing here is paid for on the same principle
of accounting which you adopt in your transactions with the
fishermen?-Just in the same way.
9415. And you just settle for it at the end of the year?-Not at
the end of the year; just whenever the woman likes.
9416. I see that this balance has been made at March 31, and
another balance is made in April, and another in July?-Yes.
9417. Are the sales of fish transacted by you at Greenbank, or
through the firm at Mossbank?-Through the firm at Mossbank
entirely.
9418. Are you generally acquainted with the transactions in that
department?-No. I may happen to know occasionally about
some things; but I don't know particularly, as a general rule.
9419. Do you know the price at which the fish were sold last
year?-I have an idea about what it was, but I could not say the
exact figure.
9420. Do you know to whom they were sold? Were any of them
sent to Spain?-I am not aware that any were sent to Spain. I
don't think there were any sent abroad at all. I think they were all
sold in Scotland and Shetland.
9421. Who buys from you in Shetland?-Mr. Joseph Leask at
Lerwick; he is a very large fishbuyer.
9422. Why do you not sell your fish direct to the south?-I
suppose we find it to be an advantage to sell to him. The
Greenbank fish were all sold to him last year, and I believe
some were sold from Mossbank too, but I could not say the
exact amount.
9423. Can you explain how the current price of the season is
ascertained, according to which you settle with your fishermen?-
I cannot explain it exactly; but I believe some of the curers may
correspond with one another about what they consider to be a fair
price.
9424. Did you sell last year at the same price as your neighbours,
Spence & Co.?-I don't know.
9425. If there is a difference in the price obtained by two or three
neighbouring firms for their fish, do you strike an average in order
to deal with your fishermen, or how is it that the fishermen are
settled with?-I am not aware that there is any average struck. I
think, as a general rule, the fishermen are paid to the full extent of
the highest price realized by the large curers.
9426. Suppose you were selling 10s. or £1 a ton cheaper than your
nearest neighbours, in consequence perhaps of having to sell
earlier, or when the market was in a depressed state?-Such it
thing occurs sometimes.
9427. Would you in that case settle with your fishermen according
to the price obtained by the other party?-Certainly.
9428. Is that an invariable rule?-In my experience it has been the
rule.
9429. Is that because the fishermen are sure to find out who got
the highest price and would be dissatisfied, or is it part of the
understanding that it is the highest current price according to
which they are to be paid?-I believe the fishermen generally
understand that they are to be paid according to the highest price.
9430. Then if a merchant is specially fortunate and gets a price
much higher than the ordinary prices of the year, does that regulate
the whole prices throughout Shetland so far as the fishermen are
concerned?-I should say not; but I think that is a thing that very
rarely happens. I think the principal curers, so far as I know, get
much about the same price for their fish. There may be a slight
variation here and there, but it small.
9431. They will get pretty much the same, I fancy, if they sell in
Shetland to one gentleman or two?-Yes; but I am not aware that
they all do that.
9432. Do you ever sell any fish for exportation to Spain?-I
cannot say that we have ever sold any for that purpose. No
doubt some of the fish we have sold may have gone to Spain
indirectly.
9433. But you have not sent them there on your own account?-
No.
9434. I presume the bulk of the transactions at Greenbank are
credit transactions, and enter the ledger?-No. We do a great
deal in cash payments.
9435. Is that with fishermen?-In some cases with our own
fishermen, and in other cases with other people. We do a
considerable business across the counter for ready money. I
should say that in our shop business we sell as much goods for
cash and butter and eggs, and so forth, as we do for fish.
9436. Are these cash transactions, as they may be called, speaking
generally, with the same parties, or with different parties from
those whose names appear in the book as having got goods which
are set against their fish?-In some cases they would be with the
same parties, and in other cases with others. For example, it is
generally women that we buy yarn from, and it is very often
women who bring us eggs and butter.
9437. Do you settle the whole of these transactions at the time?-
Yes, as a general rule.
9438. But these women may have an account which enters the
women's book?-We keep no women's book.
9439. Then when a woman does deal with you that way, she settles
her transactions at once?-Generally at once.
9440. When you sell a quarter lb. of tea, or a lispund of meal, or a
bit of cotton over the counter in a ready money transaction, is the
same price charged as if it were entering the book?-Exactly the
same, in all cases.
9441. Does it not follow from that that your profit upon the
transactions which enter the book and are settled for at the end
of the year is much less than what you make upon the cash
transactions?-If we were to make no bad debts, it would not
be much less. It would be much the same.
9442. Would it not be less in this way, that you might turn your
money over twice before these accounts were settled, and you
would either have the interest for the year or you might make
another profit?-True; but the rate of interest is so exceedingly
small at present, that the money is worth scarcely anything at all.
9443. I suppose it is a consideration in that matter that if you lose
the interest upon the money that is invested in goods, you gain by
the interest upon the money that is not paid to the men until the
end of the season?-There is not much gain there, because we
have often to pay the fishermen their money some months before
we receive it.
9444. When are your fish sales made?-Towards the end of
September or beginning of October, and they are generally made
on a three months bill.
9445. That is on a bill payable in January, and the [Page 228]
men are settled with in December?-In the end of November or
1st of December.
9446. So that the men are paid a month before you receive the
proceeds of your fish sales?-Yes, a month or two.
9447. In that way, therefore you do not stand upon an equality with
the men in the matter of interest, but on all these credit sales of
goods you are losing interest?-Looking at it in that way, that
would be so.
9448. I should have thought it not unreasonable that you should
have a discount for these cash payments: why have you not?-I
believe the reason is, that there is a great difficulty in having two
prices for your goods-I mean honestly.
9449. You think the people would complain?-Not only would the
people complain, but I am afraid your own conscience would cry
out sometimes.
9450. Why should your conscience cry out if you are really
equalizing the two classes of buyers?-The buyer who does not
pay until November has the advantage of having his money in
hand, and of getting an advance made to him on credit; whereas
the buyer who pays you in March or in April for the same goods
which the other man does not pay for until November, gives you
his money six or eight or ten months sooner, and you have the
advantage of having the money in your pocket, and you could
make of it, as the case may be: is not that so?-Yes. A discount
might be taken off if we could decide upon a certain percentage
to take off for cash; but I believe the reason we have never done
anything in that way is, that if you once begin to make an
alteration, there is a great difficulty in fixing your prices, and a
difficulty in sticking to an exact rate. Perhaps you will allow me
to illustrate what I mean. Suppose I go into a shop and ask for a
cloth jacket, and the jacket is brought down. I am well acquainted
with the price of these goods, but I have plenty of impudence, and
I beat down the price until the seller consents to give me the jacket
at 3s. less than he asked at first. Then my brother, who is a quiet
man, goes in and asks for jacket exactly the same. Perhaps he gets
five per cent. taken off, which would be 1s. 6d., and he pays cash
for it. That would be 1s. 6d. of an advantage to me, and I consider
that it would be unfair and dishonest to him.
9451. But you get out of that difficulty by raising the price a little
to everybody?-We do not. We just price our goods at what we
consider to be a living profit, and we do not sell them at less than
that to anybody.
9452. Are not your prices fixed, in the first instance, at such a
figure as you calculate would cover the risk of bad debts upon
your credit transactions, and also the loss of interest upon the
money?-I cannot say that they are. We try to make as few bad
debts as possible, and I cannot say that the prices are fixed with a
view to that at all.
9453. Are the goods invoiced to you at Greenbank from
Mossbank?-They are all invoiced from Mossbank.
9454. At the cost price, or at the price at which you are to sell
them?-At the retail price.
9455. Have you known many cases of fishermen leaving your
employment and going to other merchants?-No; as a general
rule, fishermen continue in our employment for a very long time.
No doubt there exceptions.
9456. I suppose there is a difficulty sometimes in man changing
because of its disarranging the boat's crew?-In some cases there
is.
9457. Do you know of any cases in which single men have come
to you from other employers within the last half-dozen years?-I
cannot speak for the last half-dozen years. I can only speak
particularly for two years.
9458. Within that time have you got many men coming to you
from other merchants?-There have been a few.
9459. Have these men generally been clear of debt to their former
employers when they came to you?-So far as I know, they have.
9460. They have not asked you to undertake, their debts, or to
advance them money with which to pay their debts to their former
employers?-No. I have no case of that kind in my mind at
present.
9461. Does any arrangement exist between you and any other
fish-merchant, to the effect that a man leaving the one merchant
and seeking employment with the other shall have his debt cleared
off by the new employer?-There is no such arrangement between
us and any other employer.
9462. Do you know of any case in which that has been done?-I
cannot say that I do. Such a thing might have occurred, but there
is no case of that sort which has come within my own knowledge.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, THOMAS WILLIAMSON, examined.
9463. You are a merchant and fish-curer at Seafield?-I am. I
have been there for a short time. I commenced with the fishing in
1871, and I commenced for myself there as a merchant on 20th
May 1870.
9464. Where had you been before?-I was shopman for one year
before to the man who had the place previously-Magnus Mouat.
9465. Before that where had you been?-In 1867 and 1868 I was
in Robert Mouat's shop at Coningsburgh as his shopman, but he
took charge of the shop chiefly himself. I was not quite two years
there.
9466. I understand the men in that neighbourhood were under
an obligation to fish to Mouat, who was the tacksman of the
property?-I cannot say about that. I did not know anything about
their private matters.
9467. Do you mean to say that you were shopman to Mouat for
two years and did not know that?-I did not know their private
affairs, whether they were bound or not. I saw the men fishing,
but I could not say whether they were under an obligation to fish
for him more than for any other one.
9468. Did you not know of any cases in which men were
threatened or ejected for not fishing for him, or for selling their
fish to other merchants?-I was not aware of that at the time I
was there.
9469. Were the men's accounts with Mouat settled annually in the
same way as they are in other places in Shetland?-Yes, during
the time I was there.
9470. Had you anything to do with settling these accounts?-No;
he settled with the men himself.
9471. Did you keep the books in which the goods taken from the
shop were entered?-Yes; the daybook.
9472. Do you remember anything about the prices charged
there?-They varied, just as they did at other places.
9473. Were you aware at the time that the prices charged in
Mouat's shop were much higher than those at other places?-
I cannot say that they were higher for a country shop.
9474. Were they dearer than are charged in this neighbourhood
now?-I cannot say that they were for the groceries; but indeed
they would require to have been dearer, because he had to take his
goods overland at a heavy expense from Lerwick. It was pretty
expensive keeping a horse and cart for that purpose, and taking his
goods down on a winter day. When he did not do that, he had
either to employ a sloop for himself, or a big six-oared boat.
9475. But you have to do that in many places in Shetland?-They
do that throughout the mainland, in Quendale and other places.
9476. Did the men about Coningsburgh ever complain to you of
the quality of the goods sold in Mouat's store?-Of course I might
have heard a man complain, just as parties will do when buying
goods. Some customers will always complain. They may perhaps
despise the thing, and yet at the same time they like very well to
take it, but they pretend not to want it in [Page 229] order to get it
a little reduced in price. I don't think the goods were any dearer or
any worse than in most country shops in Shetland, because they
came from the south country, and from the same men from whom
most country merchants in Shetland purchase.
9477. Did Mouat buy from a merchant in Aberdeen?-He got
most of his soft goods from Mr. D. L. Shirras there.
9478. Where did he get his meal and flour?-Sometimes from
Macduff in Banffshire, and sometimes from Tod Brothers,
Stockbridge.
9479. Who was his merchant at Macduff?-I forget; I think it was
Messrs. Laing. He had one cargo from them during the time I was
there. I think Mr. Adie, Voe, had some in the vessel at the same
time.
9480. Was the cargo landed at Coningsburgh?-Some of it, and
some at other places, just as the party got orders for it.
9481. Did the cargo belong to Mouat, or was it a joint concern?-I
cannot say.
9482. Where did he get his flour?-He did not get very much flour
during the time I was there, except for house use.
9483. Where did he get his tea and groceries?-From Mackintosh
& Co. Glasgow, and from Bremner & Grant, Aberdeen.
9484. Did you ever know of any of Mouat's men getting money at
the settlement?-Yes; those who had it to get got it, the year I was
there.
9485. Were they sometimes paid by receipts or lines?-I cannot
say how they were paid. The men, as they came out of the place
where they had been settling, spoke about being paid.
9486. But you don't know whether they got cash?-No; they might
have got a cheque on the bank. I only saw the entry in the ledger,
of cash being paid in full.
9487. Your department was merely to sell in the shop?-Yes; and
I was oftener travelling. I travelled a good deal buying up stock
for him.
9488. Where were your principal purchases of stock made?-In
winter they were chiefly at the Walls Martinmas sale.
9489. Was that in the neighbourhood of Coningsburgh?-No, it
was in the west side of Shetland; but Mouat would perhaps buy a
beast or two in the neighbourhood of Coningsburgh as he had
orders for them.
9490. How were these cattle settled for?-Those that I bought
were paid in money at the time. I cannot tell how he paid for those
he bought himself.
9491. Were these cattle sent out of the country?-Some of them
were, and others were re-sold in the country.
9492. Do you really think that upon the whole the stock of goods
in Mouat's shop was as fair in quality as is usual in Shetland?-I
could not say any other. The goods might have been lying for
some time, and I could not tell what strength was in them, but they
looked very well. They just looked like any goods that you would
see brought into a country shop.
9493. I understand you have taken Mrs. Budge's premises at
Seafield for curing and salting your fish?-Yes. Of course we
had an understanding when we took them, that we were to have
the men on equal terms with what they would get from another,
but there was no more agreement about it. There is scarcely any
man who could keep the premises there and carry on business in
them without the privilege of having the men to fish for him. It
would hardly have been fair to have made them fish for me unless
they were as well served as by fishing for another; but I told them
that I did not want any of them to fish for me unless they came
voluntarily.
9494. Do you mean that the premises are inconveniently situated
for such a business?-Of course. They lie so far inland that we
require to have a push like that.
9495. And in order to get men to deliver their fish there, it is
necessary that they should be under some sort of obligation?-
We thought that unless the men had something to do at the place,
it would not be worth keeping it. Of course you cannot very easily
force a business there, without a few men that you can depend
upon.
9496. Do you mean to force a business in the way of fish-curing,
or in the way of selling goods or provisions?-Of course it would
require a man with more capital than I have to force a business so
far inland.
9497. But which do you mean; the fish-curing business, or the
general business?-I mean the general business.
9498. I suppose the drapery and provision business depends very
much on the success of the fish-curing business?-Yes. There is
nothing else to depend upon. There are no works or anything like
that in the neighbourhood.
9499. Do the men who are employed by you in the fishing live
near your shop?-Yes.
9500. But you say that for fish-curing this is not a very convenient
place, because it is too far inland?-I say it is not convenient for
driving a business, unless you have some means to depend upon in
the fishing or such like. There are not many people round about
who could purchase goods over the counter, so that the business
cannot be carried on in that way.
9501. But do you suppose that in any part of Shetland a good
business over the counter could be carried on unless there were
fishermen employed by the merchants?-Yes. I know places in
Shetland where they do carry on a good business over the counter
without having fishermen. For instance, they could do so in Unst.
9502. Don't merchants who try to establish a business find it
exceedingly difficult to get on in the neighbourhood of a large
merchant who has a number of fishermen employed, unless they
have fishermen of their own?-No doubt but then there are some
places a good distance from these large fish-curers where they
could drive a very good business over the counter. Of course they
could not make a large business of it, because there is not a large
business to be done in Shetland.
9503. But they could make something if they were far enough
away from the large fish-curers?-Yes.
9504. Still at any place I suppose it is an advantage for a merchant
to be a fish-curer?-I don't know as to that. I cannot say much for
it this year. Last year was my first year at it, and I had two boats.
9505. Did you not make a good thing of your fishing last year?-
They did very well in the way of fishing, but I lost a good few
lines and I had to pay most in cash. I paid the men cash down, and
when they do not take their goods in return we make very little by
the fish.
9506. Did the men not run accounts with you as they would do
with another fish-curer?-No doubt some of them did, but some
of them did not.
9507. Had they all cash to receive at the end of the year?-Yes.
9508. Was there not one of them who was in debt to you at the
settlement?-Not one. The lowest had about £6 to get.
9509. Then you would not make so much of them as some
merchants do?-I don't know as to that. I don't expect that I
would make anything.
9510. Did you not expect to drive a fair business at Seafield?-
Hardly, upon that footing.
9511. Are you not satisfied with your first year's trial here?-
Sometimes we must be doing, although we are not satisfied with
everything that comes across us. Sometimes we must just endure
it, and hope for better success in another year.
9512. How do you account for your shop business not being larger
last year?-The men were in pretty good circumstances, and
perhaps they found that they could get their things a little cheaper
in Lerwick, and they ran accounts there. Of course I could not sell
so cheap as they do in Lerwick, because I was buying most of my
goods there. I got part of my goods from the south, and part from
Mr. Leask.
9513. Did you hear Mr. Laurence Williamson's evidence?-Yes.
9514. Do you make the same bargain with your fishermen about
boats and lines and other things as he described?-The captain of
the boat got something extra from me.
[Page 230]
9515. But did you give as much off the boat hire as a premium to
the men?-No; but of course it came to the same thing. I got £4
for the boat and lines. Laurence Williamson charged £6, and of
course I charged £6 too, but I gave the lines free to the captain of
the boat, and £1, 6s., which is equal to £2.
9516. Do any of the men in your experience buy their boats and
lines?-They do in other places but not on this island, so far as I
am aware.
9517. And that is always a debt against a boat's crew at starting?-
Yes. In Dunrossness the crew buy their boat and lines, and I
believe in Whalsay too.
9518. Have you engaged your boats for next year?-Of course it
was understood when I bought my new boats last year, that the
men would continue to fish for me; and this year they have not
said anything against continuing to fish.
9519. Therefore you will have the same two boats' crews of Mrs.
Budge's tenants?-I hope so.
9520. It was an understanding between you and Mr. Sievwright
when you took the premises that these men were to fish for you?-
Yes.
9521. Was that understanding put into writing?-No.
9522. Have you any lease of the premises?-No. I have them
taken from year to year.
9523. But it was understood in conversation between you and Mr.
Sievwright that the men should fish for you?-Yes, that the men
should fish on the same terms to me as they would to another
person; but still I don't want any of the men who do not come to
me voluntarily.
9524. Still you had no objection to the landlord bidding them fish
for you?-None whatever.
9525. Were you aware of the letter being written which has been
produced to-day?-Yes. I did not see it before it was sent, but I
saw it in the hands of the man who produced it.
9526. Did you know it was to be written?-No. I did not know
whether Mr. Sievwright was to ask them or to write to them.
9527. But it was quite understood between you and Mr. Sievwright
that there was such an arrangement?-Yes, of course I spoke to
Mr. Sievwright about it.
9528. And your rent was fixed on that footing?-No; my rent was
fixed before that matter was spoken of. I spoke to Mrs. Budge first
about it, and she advised me to try it, and said she thought the men
would have no objection to fish for me more than to any other
party.
9529. Had the premises been unlet for some time?-Yes.
9530. Magnus Mouat had them for two years before you?-Yes.
9531. Had they been unlet before that?-Yes, they were never let
before.
9532. Why did Mouat leave?-He did not do very much in the
place. He is in Unst now.
9533. Would you pay the same rent for your premises if that
understanding did not exist about the men fishing for you?-No, I
would not keep them at all.
9534. Why?-Because I could have nothing to do in them. I
would have nobody buying anything from me.
9535. And you would have no men to fish for you?-No.
9536. Is that because you cannot get free men to fish for you, or is
it because they prefer to fish for the big fish-curers?-When the
men are engaged to the big fish-curers, if I were to go and ask
them to come and fish for me then I would require to give them a
better bargain than they have with the merchants by whom they are
employed now, and if I were to do that it would take away all the
profit I would have on the fish, and I would have to work for
nothing. Therefore I would be as well to want them.
9537. How do you fix the current price at the end of the year?-
That is a thing I am hardly able to tell.
9538. How did you manage to ascertain it last year?-My bargain
with the men was to give them the current price of the country,
and accordingly I did so. I ascertained what the big fish-curers
were giving, and I regulated my price by theirs.
9539. You did not settle until you ascertained what price they were
getting?-No, I settled just at the general time.
9540. But after you had found out what the large fish-curers were
getting?-Yes.
9541. Did you sell to Mr. Leask?-Yes.
9542. Have you any difficulty in getting men employed by the
large fish-curers because they are bound to them too?-No, it
is not exactly that; but I have not so much money as these
fish-curers, and if the men make two or three small fishings, the
curers can help them with money or goods, while I could not
afford to do that.
9543. You have not the means of carrying them through?-Of
course I have not. Men who have been long in business and who
have plenty of capital can manage to do the thing in different
ways; and small shops like mine need not try to fight against the
great.
9544. It was only the balances you paid in cash this year?-Yes;
but some of the men had £7 or £8 before settlement time came,
and some had before they went to the fishing at all.
9545. Then their accounts at the shop would be rather small on the
whole: what would you say was about the average?-They ran
from 5s. to £9.
9546. Did they get that in goods?-They could take it either in
cash or in goods. When they did not want to take the goods, they
got cash if I had it; and if I did not have it at the time, they had just
to wait until I could make some shift to get it for them.
9547. Do you buy hosiery?-Very little. If I can get a little good
worsted-yarn, that is all I buy.
9548. Who do you sell the yarn to?-All I have done in that is a
mere trifle, as I have not been long in the business; but perhaps I
take a parcel to Lerwick, and hawk it through the shops, and get
goods in exchange which I want for my own business.
9549. Is it understood that you are to take the price out in
goods?-Yes. Of course I may meet with a private individual
who may buy a few good cuts of worsted from me for cash.
9550. Is the worsted you get generally of good quality?-It is
generally thick worsted, worth 2d. or 3d. a cut.
9551. That is not the very finest Shetland worsted?-No. There is
some of it as high as 6d. a cut.
9552. Do the merchants re-sell the worsted at the same price or do
they charge a profit upon it?-I cannot say much about that; only I
know that all that worsted and hosiery is a bad spec. to meddle
with. If it lies any time it gets spoiled, and it is very difficult to get
a market even for the best quality of it in the south.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, GILBERT GILBERTSON, examined.
9553. You are a fisherman and tenant at Harra, Mid Yell?-Yes.
9554. Is that on the Gossaburgh estate?-No, it is on Mr. Hay's
own property.
9555. Are you free to fish for anybody you like?-I have been so
in time past, and I am so now, so far as I know.
9556. Have you ever fished for any person except Hay & Co.?-
Yes. I fished five years for Mr. Sandison at Cullivoe, two for Mr.
Henderson, and one for Mr. Williamson at Ulsta.
9557. Where do you get your supplies?-Generally from the
merchant for whom I am fishing. We don't have means to get
them anywhere else.
9558. Are you generally a little bit in arrear end of the year?-No;
I always manage to have something over to help to pay the land
rent.
[Page 231]
9559. Do you pay your rent to Hay & Co.?-Yes, to the man
whom they send up to make the settlement. They send a man
every year to West Sandwick.
9560. Are you fishing for them just now?-No; the last one I
fished for was Mr. Williamson. I have made no arrangement
for the present year.
9561. Where are you getting your supplies for the incoming
year?-We are shifting along the best way we can. We have
some corn and potatoes of our own.
9562. Is not the time past for making up the boats' crews?-No;
sometimes it is done before now, but sometimes it is as late as the
month of April.
9563. Are there many men near you who have not made any
arrangement for this year?-There are a good few, principally
those who fished along with me last year.
9564. Then I suppose you are quite at liberty to go and fish for
anybody you please?-So far as I know, I am.
9565. Have you no account running anywhere just now?-No.
9566. Are you not in debt to anybody?-I may be about 1s. or 2s.
in debt at the shop at Linkshouse, but that is all.
9567. If you engage to fish for Mr. Leask at Ulsta, will you open
an account at his shop at once?-I should like to be as long as
possible in opening an account.
9568. But I suppose you won't get through the summer without
doing so?-No. Of course I could not get through the summer
without a little supplies.
9569. Do you think it would be an advantage to you if you could
get your fish paid earlier in the season?-It would be an advantage
in some respects. If I was not fishing for the proprietor, and if
he wanted his rent at Martinmas and I did not settle with the
fishcurer, then the proprietor might come upon me for the rent
before I had money to pay him, and put me to expenses for that.
9570. Don't the proprietors generally wait for your rent till after
the settlement?-In some cases they do, but not always.
9571. Have you known cases where they would not wait until after
settlement?-I have not known any but in some cases they would
like to have the money as soon as it is due.
9572. Have you known any case in which the fishcurer would not
advance money for the rent when the proprietor was needing it?-I
never knew that.
9573. Does the fish-curer generally advance you money for that
purpose?-Yes, if there is money coming to me at the settlement.
9574. Have you known a fish-curer giving a line to the proprietor
for the rent?-Yes. I have got an order from one of our curers to
the proprietor himself. I have got an order from Mr. Henderson to
Messrs. Hay, and it was accepted the same as cash. That was last
year; the order was for about £5. It was a stamped order on the
bank. It was only for part of my rent, and I had to shift for the rest
somewhere else.
9575. Was it a cheque for the whole balance due to you?-Yes.
9576. Did you get it at settling time?-I got it at the time
when Messrs. Hay settled, but I did not get an account from Mr.
Henderson until after that.
9577. Then there was more due to you by Mr. Henderson than
that?-A trifle. He took care to keep on the right side.
9578. Then you think it would not be of much difference to you to
have an earlier payment?-I don't know. It might suit a temperate
man very well who could manage his own affairs; but for the man
who required all his pence, I don't think it would suit very well.
9579. Don't you think it would be better if you were to be paid so
much, perhaps every week or every month, during the course of
the fishing, and then to be paid the balance according to the actual
price at the end of the season?-I think that would be a very good
plan, so far as I can see. It would keep the men from turning into
debt, and it would enable them to go to the best market; whereas
we who have no money are compelled to take our supplies from
the fish-curer.
9580. Do you think that is often a loss to you?-I am certain it is,
because his prices must be a little higher in consequence.
9581. Have you felt that yourself?-I felt it last year.
9582. Then anything would be an improvement which would
enable you to keep out of debt and deal where you pleased?-Yes;
if we had the means of dealing where we pleased, then we would
be enabled to go to the best market.
9583. Have you compared the goods you have got from the
merchants for whom you were fishing with those you could get
elsewhere?-Yes. Last summer we were paying 1s. 3d. per peck
for the flour which we were getting from Mr. Williamson at Ulsta,
and there was as good flour in Messrs. Hay's at Feideland at 1s.
1d.
9584. Have you ever made any other comparison of that kind?-
No. Sometimes when we found the tea or sugar to be bad, we
would try where we could get it best; but we could not run an
account at these places, in case we might not be able to pay it
from our fishing.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, HUGH HUGHSON, examined.
9585. You are a merchant at Gossaburgh?-Yes.
9586. Do you cure fish?-A few.
9587. How many boats had you last year?-I had no boats at all.
I deal altogether in ready money. I pay ready cash for all that is
brought to me, but I only do in that way on a small scale. I have
no bondmen, and I wish for no bondmen.
9588. Do you pay for the fish as they are delivered?-Yes; cash
down.
9589. Do you purchase generally from men who are fishing
promiscuously along the coast?-Yes.
9590. Do you buy from men who are engaged to other
merchants?-No. There are it few small boats that fish along
the shore, and when they come along the shore with their fish
I buy them.
9591. How do you fix the price of the green fish which you buy
from them?-I fix it from the merchants' price. Supposing I can
get £20 in cash for dry fish, I consider that I can give about 7s. per
cwt. for the same fish green, calculating 21/4 of green to 1 cwt. of
dry.
9592. Do you think that kind of business might be carried on on a
large scale?-I think it could; and am sure it would be much better
for the men. I have been twelve years in the country, and I have
found that by paying ready money I have got more custom.
9593. Have you no credit transactions at all?-Yes. I try to oblige
people at times when they want goods.
9594. But you have no security in the shape of fish which you are
to receive?-No.
9595. In fact you have no security at all except their honesty?-
No. I now produce my fish-book, which contains entries of the
fish as they are landed, and the prices which I pay for them.
9596. Do you find that the existence of long credits prevents you
from driving as large a business as you might otherwise do?-The
islands have groaned under the system of long credits for many
years.
9597. But do you find that it interferes with your driving a larger
business?-I have no command over men, and I do not wish to
have, but I always find that when there is any money going I get
my fair share of it; and I think if every one did the same, they
would get a fair proportion of business.
9598. If the men could not get credit from the larger fish-curers, do
you think they would be ready to deliver their fish to you for ready
money at the current price?-I think they would. I believe I would
be able to [Page 232] buy £100 worth for every £20 worth I buy
now, if the men could not get supplies on credit elsewhere.
9599. Do you think the introduction of a cash system of that kind
would greatly injure the men, and make them unable to get
through the winter?-I think the introduction of a cash system
into the islands would not do very well for the poor men, because
they must often have £2 or £3 of supplies from the curers before
they can begin work. What they complain of is, that the merchants
charge them a little as commission upon the money which they pay
for the goods.
9600. But instead of getting supplies as they do now, they would
be paid for their fish every time they delivered them, and then they
could purchase goods as they pleased with the cash?-Yes; but
there are many men at present who have no means, and who must
come to me and ask me for a few pounds at a time with which to
pay their rents. If I refuse them that assistance they could not carry
through at all. They could not wait until they got money from
their fishing; they would become paupers; and therefore they
require advances.
9601. Do you buy any fish in winter and spring?-Yes; I buy a
good few in winter when I can get them.
9602. But not enough to keep a man going with his family?-No.
I made some money in Australia, and that is what keeps me going.
9603. But the men do not catch enough fish in winter and spring to
keep their wives and families?-No. There are sometimes weeks
when they can get none at all, the weather is often so stormy.
9604. If you have been in Australia, you know that there are
storms elsewhere as well as here?-In Scotland they fish along
the coast, but they have better boats and there are vessels always
passing, while here there are currents from the Gulf Stream which
would frighten any man.
9605. You think they have not so good boats here?-They have
not, but they work them wonderfully, and they sometimes frighten
me when I come across them.
9606. Have you any idea why it is that these men come to you for
credit instead of going to the merchants to whom they sell their
fish?-Of course they cannot all deal in one place.
9607. But would they not get their credit much easier from the
merchant who is to receive their fish?-They might get it from
him, but perhaps they might have the same reason that the man
had when he was courting; one man might like me whilst others
might not. They might take fancies of that kind.
9608. Do you sell your goods at a lower price than the large
merchants?-I cannot say I do. I sell as low as I can, and if I
was not selling reasonably low I could not carry on at all.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, GEORGE WILLIAMSON examined.
9609. You are a fisherman at Mid Yell?-Yes. I go to the whaling
and sealing.
9610. You hold a bit of land here?-Yes.
9611. Do you also go to the ling fishing?-Yes, when I am at
home any time; but I generally go to the whaling.
9612. Do you go to Lerwick for an engagement?-Yes. I
generally engage through Messrs. Hay.
9613. Do you get your month's wages in advance?-Yes; it is paid
down in cash at the Custom House.
9614. You also get an allotment note?-Yes. I leave it with
Messrs. Hay, and then they supply my family with what they
require.
9615. Does your wife live at Mid Yell when you are away?-Yes.
9616. How does she get her supplies from Lerwick?-She sends
an order down to them, and they send her up what she requires by
the steamer.
9617. Is that the only account you keep?-That the only account I
keep with them; but I keep some accounts with other men.
9618. Do you keep an account with the merchant for whom you go
to the ling fishing afterwards?-Yes.
9619. When you come home from Greenland you settle with
Messrs. Hay at the Custom House?-Yes, as soon as I come home.
9620. You did not use to do that formerly?-No; we always used
to settle in the office.
9621. When you settled in the office, the amount of your account
was deducted from what you were to get?-Yes; but what money
we had to get was paid down to us in cash.
9622. But now you get all your money except what you have got in
the ship, and the first month's advance?-Yes.
9623. And with the balance you walk down to Hay & Co.'s office
and pay off their account?-Yes.
9624. I suppose you just go down with the clerk who has been
along with you at the Custom House?-Yes.
9625. Do you always pay off their account on the same day that
you are settled with?-Yes; but it only two years since we began
to be paid in that way.
9626. Have you been at the whale fishing every year for some time
back?-I have been eleven voyages at it but from 1852 I have been
in the south as well as at Greenland, and I have been at the ling
fishing too, and all sorts of trades.
9627. When is your last payment of oil-money generally settled
for?-When the oil has been boiled at Dundee or Peterhead, and
they know how much there is of it, the money is sent on to
Lerwick. If we are there to receive it we will get it as soon as it
comes and if not, it will lie until we come.
9628. Do you get it at the Custom House or Messrs. Hay's
office?-If we like, we get it at the Custom House; but this year
I would not go there and I got it at the office. It was at night, and
we could not get access to the Custom House; but as I wanted to
get clear. I was just paid at the office.
9629. Is your first payment of wages and oil-money after you
come home generally made before you leave Lerwick and come
to Yell?-It is now. They are very strict about that. They like
you to settle up before you leave the town.
9630. What amount of cash do you generally get as the first
payment on a Greenland voyage?-It depends on what kind of
voyage we make. Sometimes we have very little to get. Last year
I had somewhere about £10 or £12 to get for wages and the first
payment of oil-money. I had taken £2, 5s. of out-takes from
Messrs. Hay besides my first month's advance. That was for
supplies to my family at home while I was away. I was only
absent for six weeks.
9631. What ship were you in?-The 'Labrador' of London. We
made a good voyage.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, DANIEL MORE, examined.
9632. You are a fisherman and tenant at Cunningster?-I am a
fisherman, but not a tenant. I have got a house of my own.
9633. How long have you been there?-About two months-since
Martinmas. I was at Basta before, and at Colvister, and at Basta
before that.
9634. Why have you changed so often? Could you not get a bit of
ground to sit upon?-I was twenty-two years at first in Basta, and
then I lost my health, and I began some little business in groceries.
The landlord of the ground was Mr. George Hoseason, but the
tacksman was his half-brother, Mr. Hoseason of Mossbank. He
thought I was doing too well in my grocery business, and taking
away too much from their shop, and he put me away from there.
[Page 233]
9635. How did you know that he put you away for that reason?-
Because they told me that.
9636. How long is it since that occurred?-About twelve years
ago.
9637. Where did you go next?-To Colvister, where I was
under Mr. William Henderson of Gloup, brother of Mr. George
Henderson of Burravoe. I had a small shop there.
9638. Why did you leave that?-I left because I was not a
fisherman. Mr. Henderson wanted me to go to the fishing; but
as I would not he got another in my place, and thought he would
make better of it.
9639. Is it usual for a proprietor to turn away a man who does not
fish?-Yes. I paid £1 more than every man who fished every year
since I left the fishing, except to Mr. Hoseason of Basta.
9640. Did you pay that to Mr. Henderson while you were at
Colvister?-Yes.
9641. How long were you there?-Eight years.
9642. Did you pay £8 of additional rent to him during that time?-
Yes. The other tenants paid £4 for the same amount of land that I
paid £5 for.
9643. Did he tell you that that was because you did not fish?-
Yes.
9644. Did he tell you that when you took the ground?-No; he did
not say very much about it at that time.
9645. But he told you afterwards that you must pay £1 a year more
if you did not fish?-Yes.
9646. Why did you leave?-I did not leave until he warned me.
9647. Why did he warn you?-Because he wanted a skipper for a
boat.
9648. Where have you been since?-I was on Basta for three
years.
9649. Where are you now?-On Major Cameron's property, under
Mr. Walker. I have no shop there; but I have a house and a bit of
ground, which I bought with money I had saved. I am not doing
anything at present.
9650. Have you known many men who have been turned out of
their holdings because they did not fish?-I have known a few in
Yell. The proprietors of the land, if they did not fish for them,
would turn them out.
9651. Is that a common understanding among the people?-Yes.
9659. Is there anything else you want to say about it?-Nothing
particular, but that I know I have been harshly handled because
they thought I made a living by selling some groceries and one
thing and another. They did not like it very well, and in that way
they turned me out of both places.
Mid Yell, January 17, 1872, JOHN S. HOUSTON, examined.
9653. You are parochial schoolmaster of North Yell?-I am.
9654. You have had considerable experience in the management
of property?-Yes, and in dividing runrig lands.
9655. How long have you been in the country?-Between 15 and
16 years.
9656. Have you had experience as to the relations existing
between proprietors of land and fish-merchants in Shetland?-
A little.
9657. Would you explain the nature of the arrangements that
have been made in former times, and which are now made,
by which the rent of the proprietor is paid through or by the
fish-merchant?-When I came to Shetland, Major Cameron's
property in Yell was let to Mr. Sandison as tacksman; but when
the Major came from India, the lease had expired, and he
appointed me to take charge of his property. Frequently at rent
time the parties had not received their money for fish, and as a
necessary consequence they got lines from their curer, the sums in
which were placed to their credit by Major Cameron. The sum of
these lines when all was over was sent to the fish-curer, the party
who gave the lines, and a cheque on the bank was given for them.
9658. Was that merely a practice resorted to for the convenience
of the fishermen and the proprietor, or was there an understanding
with the fish-curer that he should make these advances?-It was a
convenience for all parties.
9659. You are not aware that there was any understanding between
the fish-curer and the proprietor to that effect?-There was an
understanding between Major Cameron and Mr. Sandison.
9660. Was Mr. Sandison the fish-curer you have referred to?-
Yes, Sandison Brothers. There was an understanding that any of
Major Cameron's tenants who were what might be called reckless
or careless, should not be allowed to overdraw their earnings, but
that something should be left for their rent.
9661. Was Mr. Sandison a tenant of Major Cameron's in his
fishcuring premises?-Yes.
9662. Were these lines always in the same form?-Generally they
were the same. I have plenty of them at home.*
9663. Are you aware of a similar practice having existed on any
other estate?-I believe it has existed but I cannot speak so
positively about it on other estates. I may say that similar lines
have also been given to Major Cameron and myself from another
curer in North Yell, Mr. William Pole, jun. before he became a
partner of the Mossbank firm.
9664. Had he premises from Major Cameron also?-No; he had
his father's premises. With regard to these lines, I may state that,
although there was no understanding on the subject, Major
Cameron made it a practice not to come to his tenants asking for
their rents until he was pretty sure that everything was nearly
cut-and-dry for him.
9665. Do you think it is a general practice in Shetland for the
landlord to fix his rent day so as to be convenient for the
fishermen?-I think it is. They fix it after settlement. Mr.
Walker, the first year he was factor for Major Cameron, came
nearly close to his time, 11th November, but since then he has
not done so.
9666. You are not aware whether that practice of giving lines
exists in Yell now?-It does exist. I myself have paid rents by
orders for cattle bought from Major Cameron's tenants.
9667. Have you had much intercourse with the fishermen in your
district of the country?-Yes; I often hear their conversations.
9668. Do you know generally the way in which business is
conducted in the fish trade?-I think I do.
9669. Are you aware that much complaint exists with regard to the
way in which the current price for fish is fixed at the end of the
season?-The fishermen, as a general rule always complain.
9670. What are the grounds of their complaint?-I think the
reason why they complain is, that they believe the curers never
give them so large a price as they should do. There is a sort of
jealousy abroad amongst all the fishermen, which perhaps
originated in formerdays, but which is still rankling in their
bosoms.
9671. A jealousy of whom?-A jealousy of the fish-curers, that
they don't give them fair play.
9672. Have you seen any cases where you thought they did not get
fair play?-Not for some time past.
9673. Are you able to form an opinion upon the question whether
the fishermen are justified in complaining of the manner in which
the current price is fixed?-I think, as a general rule, they are not.
I know practically, from curers books that I had access to, that the
current price is fairly fixed.
9674. Have you been employed as an [Page 234] accountant?-
No; but I have had confidence placed in me, and I have seen their
books.
9675. Have you any means of knowing whether there are more
prices than one for the fish, according to the market to which they
are sent?-I am aware that each curer does not receive the same
price. There are exceptions to the rule. Some send their fish
direct to the foreign market, and some sell to a home firm, who
require something for their risk and trouble.
9676. Do you think the present system of distant payments for the
fish could be altered, and a better one introduced?-I don't well
see how it could be altered for the benefit of the fishermen.
9677. Is that on account of the bad seasons which occur
occasionally?-Not altogether on account of the bad season,
but it suits them better. Many of them prefer to leave their
money with their curer until they require it for their rents.
9678. They prefer him to act as their banker?-Exactly.
9679. Is it not the case that many fishermen who ask advances
from their curers before the fishing season begins, or during its
course, are really capitalists with considerable sums in the
bank?-I am not aware of any case of that kind, but I know plenty
of fishermen who have money in the bank. I should say that the
system would perhaps be more healthy if the fishermen were paid
when the fishing was over. That would remove many grievances
now complained of.
9680. Do you think they should be paid in July or August?-In the
end of August.
9681. But if they were paid then they might get a lower price than
the fish-merchants eventually got?-They would have to be paid at
a rate by which the curer would be certain to be safe as his fish
had not gone to market, and they did not know what they would
realize; but the same holds good on the coast of Scotland in the
herring fishing.
9682. Would the fishermen, so far as you know them, be content
with a system of that sort?-I cannot say; I rather think not.
9683. Do you think they would like to have the chance of a larger
price?-They would engage just now for the next season if they
were satisfied that they would realize 1s. more than the market
would afford them at Martinmas.
9684. But they would not engage otherwise?-No.
9685. Do you think they would endeavour to get quit of such a
bargain if the price at Martinmas should turn out to be higher than
what they had agreed for the commencement of the season?-
Attempts are made of that nature in their dealings in the selling of
cattle.
9686. Are cattle sometimes sold according to a current price at a
later period?-Cattle are sometimes bought during the spring. If
not bought then, they are sold by auction at fixed sales in May, and
in the mainland they have a Martinmas sale for fat cattle.
9687. But they are sometimes sold before these sales?-They are
sold in spring to parties going through the district seeking cattle to
buy; and during the last season the prices were so very high at the
spring sales, that I know parties who had sold their cattle before,
and then came back upon the purchaser asking him for the
currency of the sale, although their animals had been sold months
before.
9688. Did they get what they asked?-In one case they did.
9689. Was that from a proprietor?-No.
9690. Does the practice of marking the horns of cattle exist in
Yell?-It does.
9691. In what circumstances is that done?-If a tenant becomes
indebted to me and cannot pay me in cash, he offers me one of his
cattle and to make sure of it I cut the initials of my name on its
horns.
9692. Are you assuming that you are the landlord?-It does not
matter whether I am the landlord or not. I may be a merchant, and
it is the merchants who do it; the landlord does not require to do it,
because the hypothec protects him.
9693. But the merchant takes his chance of the landlord's
hypothec interfering with him?-Yes.
9694. If a merchant marks a beast in that way, is it generally
exposed at the next periodical sale?-Sometimes it is, but
sometimes it is taken away at a price fixed upon at the time.
If not, it is sold, and the merchant gets his money.
9695. Do you think the debtor in that case has perfect freedom in
fixing the price?-Both parties fix it.
9696. But do you think the debtor is under no constraint?-None.
Arbitration would decide it.
9697. Arbitration might decide it, but is arbitration resorted to?-
Sometimes. A person understood to be qualified puts a value upon
the cattle, or the currency at which such animals are selling at that
time is taken.
9698. It has been alleged that when merchants got people deeply
in debt they mark their cattle, and they can take them at any price
they choose: is that so?-I have never seen a case of that kind.
Such a practice may have existed 20 or 30 years ago, but I am
entirely ignorant of it. I may further state something which was
not exactly implied in your questions, but which in the south is
generally misunderstood. As a general rule, the fishermen get
one-third of the selling price of the fish. Fish dry in 5-9ths-that is
21/4 cwt. of green fish make 1 cwt. dry, fit for the market,-and it
is understood that the curer pays one-third; but when the price may
be £20 and upwards, he pays more than one-third of the selling
prices. When the price is £14 or £15 he can only afford to pay
one-third, the expenses being the same per ton for curing at the
high price as at the low price. Suppose he sells his fish at £20 per
ton, he pays his fishermen £7; 21/4 times 7 are £15, 15s. The curing
of that ton of fish costs him £2, 10s., that is £18, 5s., leaving him
£1, 15s. to pay for his salt, to transport them to his store, and ship
them on board a vessel, and to pay their freight to Leith. Hence it
follows that the fish-curer has very little profit indeed.
9699. Upon what data is that conclusion of yours rounded?-Upon
facts which I know with regard to the prices paid by curers.
9700. Do you know the price of the salt and the expenses of
curing, through the curers themselves?-The fixed price for
curing has always been 50s.
9701. That is the price which they charge?-That is the price
which a party would charge a curer for curing his fish.
9702. That would be for salting and curing?-They would salt
them, but the salt belongs to the curer.
9703. But the price of the salt is included in the 50s.?-No. I have
my information from a curer of long standing, but who is not now
in the trade.
9704. Have you any information to give with regard to the
obligations of fishermen upon other estates in Shetland to fish
for the landlords?-I have had a good deal to do with the property
of Simbister, on which there were no tenants bound to fish, except
those belonging to the Coningsburgh district, who were under tack
to Mouat. Their leases bound them to do so; but, on the expiry of
that lease, Mr. Bruce did not intend to let any of his lands again
after that fashion. To my knowledge he refused to let them to a
party who would have been a good tenant.
9705. Is there any other point falling within this inquiry upon
which you are prepared to make any statement?-The only other
statement I should wish to make would be a sort of qualification as
to why the fishermen are generally dissatisfied with the prices they
get. It is understood that they get one-third, or a little more when
the prices are high, and if that is the understanding they argue that
they ought to see the bills of sale. They say, 'Why not lay down to
us when you settle, the document according to which you have
sold your fish; we don't know what you have sold them at, we only
have that from hearsay.' That is the only reason why I think the
fishermen actually complain.
9706. Do you see any reason why they should not see the bills of
sale?-I think they are entitled to see them.
[Page 235]
9707. Are they not really partners with the curer?-They are; for
they are risking the market as well as the curer.
9708. Have you read the evidence that was given before this
Commission in Edinburgh?-I have; and the only observation I
would make upon it is, that I am not a believer in it generally.
Facts are stated as existing many years ago, but which are not
applicable to the present day, as a general rule, throughout
Shetland.
9709. Do you think the condition of Shetland has improved during
the sixteen years you have lived in it?-Yes; especially during the
last five, and more especially during the last three years. The
prices of cattle have been so high that a tenant could pay his rent at
once with an animal, when he could not do that before. The price
of fish has also improved.
9710. These, however, may be transient facts?-They may be.
9711. Prices may fall?-They may.
9712. Is there any permanent cause operating to improve the
condition of Shetland?-There is more direct communication with
the south. Purchasers come into it now and buy directly, instead of
buying through natives resident here acting as their agents, and
who perhaps might charge something extra for their own trouble,
and that had to come off the people. There is one part of Mr.
Walker's evidence which I consider to be perfectly true, where he
referred to the giving of credit to children or almost children. I
believe that to be an injurious practice, because children are
initiated into the system of getting credit when they are eleven or
twelve years old, and it never ceases with them unless they leave
home. It may in certain cases cease; but as a general rule it does
not, and I think it is like learning them to smoke tobacco, or
anything of that sort.
9713. Is there any other point in Mr. Walker's evidence, or the
evidence given in Edinburgh, which you consider to be true?-The
evidence given in Edinburgh contained a great many facts highly
coloured, and I may add somewhat exaggerated.
9714. Do you think the present state of the hosiery trade is a
wholesome one?-No. I consider the hosiery trade, as a whole,
to be a morally unhealthy one as it present exists.
9715. Is that because of the facilities which offers for the younger
members of the family to get into debt?-It is not that. I speak
particularly of Yell, where yarn is produced; the merchants have to
lay a higher price on their goods when they give them for yarn than
they would do for cash, or for any other article brought to them
which was worth its value in cash.
9716. Do they put a higher price upon the goods which they sell
for yarn?-They must do it.
9717. Is not that high price charged in all other sales as well as in
sales which they make for yarn?-No; the country merchants here
have two prices.
9718. You heard the evidence of Mr. Pole to-day, in which he said
they had only one price for all their goods?-Yes. Mr. Pole seems
to have adopted a new system. I know they had two prices some
time ago.
9719. You are aware that two prices did exist there?-Yes, and in
many other places.
9720. You believe that to be unwholesome?-I do.
9721. Does it create a bad feeling towards the merchant?-I think
the practice is morally wrong. To meet these things, many females
come, not with 100 threads in each cut, but with from 90 down to
80, obliging the merchant to count the yarn which he buys from
certain parties in whom he has not implicit confidence.
9722. Of course that encourages deception?-Yes. With regard to
the trade in yarn, the merchant buys it according to its quality. If
he is to sell it in Lerwick, he employs a party for the purpose, who
receives a percentage for selling it. The merchant has also to pay
freight, and he has to lay these things upon his goods.
9723. Are you aware that in Lerwick the practice of the merchants
is not to sell worsted at all, but merely to purchase what they want
for their own use?-I am not aware of that. I know there are
merchants in Lerwick who do sell worsted, but they could scarcely
be called <bona fide> hosiery merchants. They are generally
people who sell for some one in the country, sometimes as a
favour, and sometimes for commission.
9724. These are not hosiery shops?-No; they are sometimes
grocers.
9725. I fancy that a party selling yarn may more readily take it to a
grocer if she wants provisions rather than dry goods, as she will
not get provisions in Lerwick from the merchants?-The grocer
won't buy it unless he requires it for family use, but he will take it
from a merchant as a favour, and sell it for him.
9726. But I have been informed by many merchants in Lerwick
that they always purchase Shetland worsted for money; and as they
require all they can get and more for their own use, they do not sell
it again at all; so that, according to that information, any person
going from Yell to Lerwick and selling worsted, could get the
highest cash price for it from one of the hosiery merchants: is that
not consistent with your knowledge of the matter?-I am aware
that cash has been given. I have known a firm that dealt with a
Lerwick hosiery merchant to a very large extent, and perhaps
received £90 in cash for hosiery and yarn in one season. That,
however, I looked upon as an exception.
9727. You heard the evidence of William Stewart with regard to
Whalsay?-Yes.
9728. You were employed by the late Mr. Bruce to divide the
toons there?-Yes. He wished to abolish the run-rig system, and
to place his tenants on a money-paying system-to fish for whom
they chose, and to pay him a rent. I was employed to make the
division, and I divided every toon in the island, except one.
9729. At that time did you find that the system which Stewart
described was either prevailing, or had been prevailing shortly
before?-It was just dying out.**
[Page 236]
9730. Does any other person wish to be examined, or to make any
statement? [No answer.] Then I adjourn the sittings here until
further notice.
*The witness afterwards forwarded a number of these lines. They
were in similar terms to the following:-
'CULLIVOE, 8<th Dec>. 1864.
'£7, 0s. 7d.
'Mr. HOUSTON,-Please credit A.B. in rent account the sum
of seven pounds and sevenpence, and charge to account of
' SANDISON BROTHERS.'
**Mr. Houston afterwards submitted the following remarks by
way of supplement to his evidence;-The collecting of rents and
<arrears> of long standing, and the dividing and renting of farms,
and other unavoidable accompaniments, placed me as a temporary
link between landlord and tenant, and tended to give me a
knowledge of Shetland affairs in general, as existing between
landlord and tenant, between fish-curer and fishermen, and
between merchant and customer. Although the dividing and
letting of farms may not be considered relevant to the present
inquiry into the truck system, I hold a <decidedly opposite
opinion>. No doubt poverty is the foundation upon which the
truck system has been reared, and may justly be called its <foster>
parent; and the origin may be traced, very clearly too, to the
subdividing of farms, it being the interest of the landlord-curer to
accommodate as many fishermen as possible. In many districts,
and on small properties where the landlord is storekeeper and
curer, that system is still upheld, and <fostered> with pious care;
while on many of the larger properties the proprietors are
endeavouring to abolish it. The islands being over-populated, and
the farms so insignificantly small, it follows as a result that the
inhabitants have to depend on external aid, and throw themselves,
although reluctantly it may be, into the arms of a system which,
however honestly conducted, has a tendency to hamper their
movements, to bereave them of independence, and to plunge
parents and their children into debt, out of which they may never
be able to extricate themselves. There is an antidote, but its
application would require to be a work of <time>.
<Fishcurer and Fishermen>.
In my evidence I stated that at present I considered fishermen
were generally well treated, and received as high a price as the
curer could well afford; but at same time I <do not> consider the
curer is acting judiciously. Under the present arrangement of
prices, I can only view the curer and his fishermen in the light of a
joint-stock company. The curer supplies boats and lines directly
or indirectly. The fishermen give their labour and risk their lives,
and when the summer fishing closes, the part the fishermen play in
the speculation terminates. The curer prepares the fish for the
market, disposes of them, and receives the cash. As the price to be
paid to the fishermen is regulated by the market price, I consider it
the bounden duty of the curer to lay before the fishermen, at
settling, the <missive of sale>, that document being the common
property of <both parties>, and more especially as three-fourths at
least of the cash realized is understood to belong to the men.
<That>, however, <is not the practice>; and hence the fishermen,
naturally jealous, and still wincing under the scars of former years,
are never satisfied; and I consider the curer in acting thus is
reprehensible, and the fishermen justified in complaining, even
when the curer is a sufferer. Were it made penal on the part of the
curer to treat the bargain so, there would be less injustice done to
himself, and less suspicion thrown around his integrity. Since the
truck uproar has spread its wings on the Shetland blast, and
breathed offensively in the faces even of Her Majesty's
Government, it has been suggested by strangers that curers should
pay their fishermen each time fish was delivered. That mode
would not be advantageous to the fishermen. It would suit their
interests better to be paid at the close of the fishing, on the same
principle as is done by those engaged in the seal trade. At every
station during the summer fishing there is a 'beach price,' and if
that price was paid for the summer's catch at the close of the
fishing it would put the fishermen in a position of buying with
<cash> instead of being dependent on their curer's store for
months after the fishing had closed. The residue of the price,
which would be a mere trifle, would be paid them when the fish
was sold, and the price known, on the same principle as 'oil-money'
in the seal trade. I have no doubt whatever but such a mode, if
adopted, would tend to put a stop to the present and <necessary>
facilities of drawing so largely upon the curer's store. The
fisherman who has neither money nor <credit> must go to his curer's
store, as he has no other alternative; but were he put in possession
of his earnings at the close of the fishing, <truck> for a time would
disappear from his individual horizon. I may mention that the hosier
referred to in my evidence as having paid £90 in cash in a year to a
party in the country for hosiery and yarn was Mr. Robert Linklater,
Lerwick; and I may further state that I have known Mr. Robert Sinclair
give £15 once on a £20 transaction of hosiery, etc.