2978. Are you a fisherman at Channerwick?-I am.
2979. Do you hold land there?-My father holds land under Mr.
Bruce of Simbister.
2980. Robert Mouat was formerly tacksman of Channerwick and
Levenwick under Mr. Bruce?-Yes.
2981. He carried on a fish-curing business there up till last year?-
Yes.
2982. During the time he held the tack, were the tenants there in
use to fish for and deliver their fish to Mouat?-Yes.
2983. Was it supposed that there was an obligation on them to
deliver their fish to him only?-Yes; they thought so.
2984. Was it the case that there was such an obligation?-It was
not, but in their ignorance, they did not know otherwise.
2985. How do you know it was not the case?-Because
afterwards, when he was put out of the place, Mr. Bruce, the
proprietor, told them they never were bound to Mouat; only that if
he gave them as high a price as was given in the country, and
served them as well in every respect as they could be served
anywhere else, why should they not fish to him as well as to
another? If, however, Mouat came anything short of that, then
they were under no obligation whatever, but they could put their
produce where they pleased, and they had only to pay him their
rent on a given day.
2986. When did Mr. Bruce tell you that?-In 1871.
2987. Had he never told you so before?-He never told the tenants
that before. He had given a statement to Mouat before, but Mouat
never revealed it to the tenantry until after his departure; and then
it was known, and only then, how matters stood.
2988. To whom did Mr. Bruce make that statement? Was it in
writing, or to some particular person?-I could not exactly answer
that for I have never seen the statement myself. It is only from
hearsay among the tenantry at large that I know about it.
2989. Have you heard that from many of the tenants?-Yes, from
many.
2990. What is your father's name?-Malcom Malcolmson. He is
unable to come here, unless it is absolutely necessary.
2991. Is he not in good health?-No; not at present.
2992. Was it the practice in Mouat's time to require the tenants to
deliver their fish to him only?-Yes.
2993. Did he object to their selling them to others?-Yes.
2994. Did he turn out any people for doing so, or threaten to turn
them out?-He threatened a few, and turned out one
2995. Who was that one?-Henry Sinclair, Levenwick.
2996. Was that a long time ago?-Yes; a few years ago. I don't
remember the number of years in particular but it is a good while
ago.
2997. You have given me a letter in these terms:
'MOUL, 18<th Jan>. 1869.
'Mr. Malcolm Malcolmson.
'Dear Sir,-I am sorrey to think that I shoud hav met to-day
what I have, but you will be pleased to lok out for A place at
Martamas 1869,
'ROBT. MOUAT,
'as I am goen to set your land.'
What had he met that day?-He had received intelligence from his
storekeeper at Channerwick that Malcolm Malcolmson's son (that
is myself) had given part of the fish of Thomas Jamieson's boat to
another fish-merchant, Thomas Tulloch, in Sandwick parish.
2998. Does Tulloch live in Sandwick?-Yes, near Sand Lodge.
2999. He keeps a shop and cures fish there?-Yes.
3000. How do you know that that was the reason for this letter
being written?-Because Mouat told my father himself in my
presence.
3001. Was that before or after the letter was received?-It was
after the letter was received, and when my father asked the reason
why he was to give his land to another.
3002. Was your father put out of the farm at that time?-He was
not.
3003. How did that happen?-Because he lost the use of one of his
hands or of his right thumb, and Mouat had a sort of sympathy
with him as being unable to earn his bread as he used to do before,
and therefore he let him alone for a season until he could get round
again, and regain perfect health and strength, but before that
season rolled round, Mouat was out the place himself.
3004. Did you consider yourselves bound to take goods from
Mouat's store?-We could not do anything else.
3005. Why?-Because we had no money to purchase them with
from other stores. We received no money during the fishing
season.
3006. Did you ever ask for advances of money during the fishing
season?-Yes; but they were refused.
3007. Why?-Because he just would not give it. He gave no
reason, except that he could not give it.
3008. But you would get any kind of goods you wanted?-Yes.
3009. What was the quality of the goods at Mouats' store?-They
were of a very inferior quality to what we could purchase
anywhere else in the island.
3010. Are you speaking just now from your own knowledge, or
from the common understanding of the people about?-I am
speaking from nothing else but my own knowledge.
3011. But are you a good judge of the quality of goods?-I cannot
say that I am a very good judge, only I know well enough a bad
article from a good one.
3012. What particular thing are you speaking of just now?-Say
cottons, moleskins, and cloth.
3013. And what as to the provisions?-They were of inferior
quality as well. We had meal from his store which he called his
second flour. It was as dear, if not dearer, than we could purchase
it anywhere else, and it was of such a quality that it could not be
eaten by human beings.
3014. Then you did not eat it?-It had to be eaten for the support
of life, while it existed; but had it not been for the provisions that
came from other stores, and from people who had them to sell,
Mouat's tenantry could not have been alive now, and I among the
rest.
3015. How could they get provisions from other stores if they had
no money to purchase them with?-They made a statement of how
they were situated under Mouat, and how they could not receive
any meal at all, and that they had to give all their fish to him; and
the other shopkeepers felt such sympathy for them, that they gave
them supplies to save their own lives and the lives of their
families, and to put the men to the fishing. At the same time,
when they gave them these supplies, they had no expectation
whatever of receiving anything for them from a good many,
because they were so poor that they could not give it.
3016. Do you think the storekeepers gave the fisher [Page 67] men
credit, without any expectation of being repaid?-One of the
shopkeepers told me so himself.
3017. Who was that?-James Smith, Hill Cottage, Sandwick
parish.
Lerwick, January 6, 1872, WILLIAM MANSON, examined.
3018. Are you a fisherman at Channerwick, in Sandwick parish?-
Yes.
3019. Do you hold a piece of land under Mr. Bruce of
Simbister?-Yes.
3020. It was formerly included in the tack to Robert Mouat?-Yes.
3021. Were you bound to fish for Mouat?-Yes.
3022. Did you give your fish to any other merchant during the time
of his tack?-Yes. In 1870, the year that Mouat failed in business,
I gave my fish to James Smith, because I saw I could not live for
want of meal, and therefore I and some others were determined to
give our fish where we could get both meat and money; and for
doing so, Mouat served me with a summons.
3023. Were Smith and Tulloch the only fish merchants in that
neighbourhood besides Mouat?-Yes; they cure fish, but not in a
large way.
3024. But they buy your fish, and sell you provisions and goods?-
Yes.
3025. In consequence of selling your fish to Smith, did you receive
a letter from Mouat?-Yes; I have lost that letter.
3026. Did it warn you that you were to leave your ground?-Yes.
3027. Did you also get a formal warning to quit?-I did. I have it.
[Produces summons of removing.]
3028. This is a summons at the instance of Robert Mouat, residing
in Lerwick, principal tenant under Robert Bruce, Esq. of
Simbister, dated 29th September 1870, giving you warning to
leave at Martinmas: was that summons served upon you by a
sheriff officer?-Yes.
3029. Did you leave in consequence of it?-No; it was in the latter
part of the harvest that I received it, which was a very inconvenient
time for me to leave, and I went to Mouat and spoke to him about
it. He told me that if I would promise to be an obedient tenant,
and agree to fish for him the same as I had been doing before, and
pay the expense of the summons, I could stay. I knew that it was
then coming towards the end of his lease, and I agreed to do that.
If I had thought he was to continue longer on the place, I would
have left.
3030. Did you pay for the summons?-I did.
3031. You have handed me another letter in the following terms:
'MOUL, 1869, <Jan>. 18<th>.
'THOMAS JAMIESON.
'LAURANCE MALCOLMSON.
'WILLIAM MANSON.
'WILLIAM MOUAT.
'I this day duly give you notice to look out for A house at
Martamas 1869, as I am not incline to keep such men as you for
your preasent condick.
'ROBERT MOUAT.'
3032. What does that letter refer to?-It was sent to us because we
had allowed Malcolm Malcolmson to give his share of the fish
away to another merchant than Mouat.
3033. You understood Mouat to refer to Malcolmson having sold,
his fish to Tulloch?-Yes.
3034. This letter was written at an earlier period than the warning
you received yourself?-Yes, the year before.
3035. How do you know it was that particular act on your part
which caused this letter to be written?-Because Mouat told me so
himself.
3036. When did he tell you so?-That same year, just a few days
after the letter was written
3037. How was it that you did not leave your ground at that
time?-We just never minded him, but went on as we had been
doing. I and the rest of the men fished for him, and that man
fished for Thomas Tulloch as he had been doing, and Mouat never
asked anything about it afterwards. He just annulled the letter, as
it were.
3038. You have produced another summons of removing: what
does it refer to?-It is the summons that was served upon another
man, Thomas Jamieson, at the same time that the summons was
served upon me, and for the same thing. He knew that I was
coming here, and he wanted me to bring his summons also, that I
might show it to you. He had also fished for James Smith in 1870.
3039. Have you anything to say about Mouat's shop?-It was very
little worth.
3040. Did you get all your goods there?-Yes.
3041. Were you obliged to take them there?-We were because
we could not get them anywhere else.
3042. Did Mouat tell you that you must take them from him?-He
did not say that we must take them; but when we were fishing for
him, and getting no money, we were obliged to go and take our
goods from his shop. Although they had been double the price of
what they were anywhere else, we had no other way of doing. We
could not make a better of it.
3043. You think the quality of the articles you got there was not
good?-It was not.
3044. The meal especially was bad?-Yes; the meal was worst.
3045. Was the tea good?-No; it was bad, and it was dear.
3046. For whom were you fishing last year?-For James Smith.
3047. Are you perfectly at liberty now to fish for any one you
please?-Yes, we are at perfect liberty.
3048. Smith is not a tacksman?-No; he just takes our fish, and
pays us well for them, as high as can be got in the place.
3049. Do you deal at Smith's shop?-Yes.
3050. And you settle with him annually?-Yes; I have just settled
with him this week.
3051. Had you a balance to receive from him?-Yes; £4, 14s.
3052. That was your balance of the season's fishing, after
deducting the price of the goods you had got during the season
from his shop?-Yes.
3053. Is that a usual balance in a good season, or is it under or
over?-It is just about the general thing.
3054. Was that paid to you in cash?-Yes.
3055. You paid your rent to Mr. Irvine, of Hay & Co.?-Yes.
3056. Have Hay & Co. any fish-curing places in that
neighbourhood?-No, they have a place down at Dunrossness, but
that is a long way from us.
3057. You are not expected to fish for them?-No; we have heard
nothing about that yet.
Lerwick, January 6, 1872, ROBERT ANDERSON, examined.
3058. You are principal shopman to Mr. Robert Linklater,
merchant, Lerwick?-Yes.
3059. I understand you desire to make some explanation with
regard to the evidence of two women who were examined here?-
Yes; of Margaret Tulloch, and of Mrs. Thomas Anderson,
Margaret Tulloch said she refused to take worsted from us to knit,
because she could not get cash for her work. I have to state that
we refused to give her work because she kept it so very long; and
when she was asked why she had kept it so long, she said she had
so many lodgers, that she had scarcely any time for knitting. The
last thing she had from us was a small handkerchief, the knitting of
which was worth 1s. 6d., and which could easily be [Page 68]
made in three days. She had it in hand for two days short of five
months. Mrs. Anderson made the same remark, that she would not
take worsted, because she could not get cash for her knitting. I
have the same explanation to make with regard to her, that we
refused her work because kept it too long. She got a little shawl to
knit on 28d February 1870, and she returned it to use on 14th
June. The knitting of it cost 2s.
3060. You find that from your work-book?-Yes. When we asked
her why she kept the work so long, she replied that she had so
much out-door work to do, that she had scarcely any time for
knitting. Then there was one of the girls Brown, Mrs. Tait, who
was examined the first day, and who said, I think, that I would not
give her cash, but would only give it to my favourites. There are
some sisters of that family, and the book was in name of one of the
sisters. I only recollect her asking me once for a shilling, which I
gave her.
3061. If she got cash, would it not appear in the book?-Yes.
3062. Did she sometimes deal with you in the way of selling her
hosiery?-No.
3063. She always knitted for you?-Yes. On 2d July 1869 there is
cash 1s. marked: that is the only time I recollect her asking it; and
she got it, although I may have made the remark when handing it
to her, that we were not in the habit of giving cash. I did not
refuse it for all that, but in the act of handing it I may have made
that remark.
3064. Mr. Linklater stated that there are about 300 people knitting
for him: are the names of all these parties entered in your
work-book in separate accounts?-Yes. [Produces work-book.]
3065. Will you show me the way, you make settlement with one of
your workers?-Here [showing] is the case of Mary Henry, a
country girl.
3066. Is that a good enough instance of it?-Yes. She brings in
ten veils, and she has to get 1s. each for knitting them. That is
entered to her credit. She will ask what she is to get, and we tell
her. Then she will take whatever she wants at that time. She may
have sent the veils in with another girl, and come in afterwards
herself to get the goods.
3067. I see she has taken out 17s. 41/2d., worth in goods?-She had
taken out the amount she had to get, and she brought in other ten
veils afterwards, the date of which I find is not marked. Then she
asked what she had to get, and she was told it was 4s. 111/2d. We
would ask her if she was to settle for that, and she said yes, and we
marked it settled.
3068. Was that 4s. 111/2d, which is marked as the balance due to
her, paid in cash or got in goods?-It was got in goods entirely.
3069. The items of that do not appear here?-No. When we are
busy we scarcely have time to enter all the items; but at other
times, when we are not so busy, we enter them all.
3070. It is a rule in your business that you do not give lines for a
balance of that kind?-Yes.
3071. You do not give them on a purchase of goods either?-No.
3072. Do the purchases of goods from parties who do not knit with
your worsted appear in any of your books?-No; unless a balance
is left, and it appears in the end of the day-book where I now point
it out. [Showing.] On page 38 there is the account of Helen
Arcus, our dresser.
3073. Is that Mrs. Arcus who has been examined?-No; she does
not dress for us. That account of Helen Arcus is entirely for
dressing.
3074. Is it settled by goods?-No. I wish to explain how we deal
with her. She gets out a quantity of shawls and veils or neckties to
dress. When they are finished, she brings them down to our
hosiery shop where we keep our hosiery and she gets the amount
marked on a bit of a line with which she goes to the other shop. I
ask her what she wants and perhaps if the amount is 8s. 71/2d. she
will ask for a quarter pound of tea for 10d. I then ask her what she
wants next, and she says, 'I want 2s. or 3s. in cash.' There is then
a balance left, which I mark in the book thus 'By 4s. 81/2d.,' which
stands as a balance due to her. If she wants any cash in the interim
between that time and the time when she brings down her
dressing, she comes to the shop and gets cash, say 6d., or any
goods she requires. She gets at the very least 5s. a week in cash all
the year round. That does not appear in the book, but she gets
whatever she asks.
3075. How do you balance the account when the time comes for
doing that?-We add up the two sides of it.
3076. I see that each line in the account contains both debit and
credit entries?-Yes, but there are two money columns at the end,
and the entries are carried out to them according as they are debit
or credit.
3077. How do you do with regard to sending goods south?-When
we get orders for Shetland goods in the winter time, they go to our
house in Edinburgh. We have already forwarded goods there, and
they are kept in store; the orders received at that season are
executed there, and a statement is sent down to us. This
[producing document] is one of the statements which have been
sent from Edinburgh for veils, and here [producing document] is
another for shawls. I have brought a sample of each.
3078. The veils are numbered according to quality?-Yes. When
we send them of different prices, there must be a different number,
to let the people in the south know what the prices are.
3079. You fix the price here at which they are to be sold in
Edinburgh?-Yes.
3080. That is the wholesale price?-Yes. Here is June 4: 4 dozen
grey veils No. 1, 18s.-£3, 12s.; 4 dozen grey veils No. 6, 21s.-
£4, 4s.; 3 dozen No. 7, 27s.-£4, 1s.
3081. Have these grey veils No. 1 been knitted for you by your
own knitters?-The principal part of them; but we buy some.
3082. Show me one of the entries of the payment to a knitter for
these veils?-I could scarcely show it for these identical veils.
3083. But for veils of the very same quality?-I should think this
[showing] would be of the same quality: '10 veils, 9d.-Barbara
Pottinger, Burra Isle.'
3084. Then the No. 1 veil which you sell at 1s. 6d. would cost 9d.
for the knitting?-We pay 9d. for the knitting of it.
3085. You give out the worsted: what will that cost?-I should
think for the coarsest, about 5d.
3086. Would that be the price you pay for it, or the price you
would ask for it from a knitter?-It is the price we pay for it; it is
Shetland wool.
3087. Which you don't sell?-Which we don't sell. We sell no
kinds of wool.
3088. What does the veil cost you for dressing?-11/2d.
3089. Is there any other expense connected with?-There is not on
that identical veil, but there is other expense connected with the
trade.
3090. Have you to pay freight?-Not freight; but when we get a
quantity of goods of that kind, perhaps one-half of them cannot be
sold as they are. The colour is so uneven, that we have to send
them south and dye a great part of them.
3091. Do you send one-half of each lot south?-Sometimes
one-half, and sometimes more and sometimes less.
3092. What is the cost of dyeing?-We pay 1s. a dozen for dyeing;
and there is the freight south and the freight back again, and we
require to re-dress a great many of them.
3093. So that some of these veils may actually cost you 1s. 6d.?-
Yes; and some of them cost less.
3094. What margin of profit does that leave?-I really cannot say.
I think no Shetland merchant can tell the exact profit he has on any
of his goods.
3095. But there are a number of incidental expenses of that kind,
which bring the actual cost of the veils up to about 1s. 6d.
apiece?-Yes.
[Page 69]
3096. May that be said with regard to other goods also?-It can be
said of shawls.
3097. You think the expenses of that kind for sending south, and
dyeing and re-dressing, often make the cost of production nearly
equal to the selling price?-Yes; and in many cases more than the
selling price.
3098. How much wool would there be in a dozen of these Shetland
veils?-I should say there would be twenty-one cuts of Shetland
wool in a dozen No. 1 veils at 18s.
3099. What is the price of that Shetland wool per cut?-3d. is the
price for a fairish quality. Some of the veils turn out very bad
from the 3d. worsted, while others turn out to be a little better.
3100. Therefore the worsted costs 5s. 3d., the knitting 9s., and the
dressing 1s. 6d.: that leaves 2s. 3d. What proportion of these veils
can go to the market without any dyeing or re-dressing?-I don't
think there will be more than half of them. The worsted looks
very well before it is given out to the knitter; but when it comes
back, there are dark and light bars through it.
3101. Then upon one-half of them you have the expense of a
double freight to Edinburgh, and also the expense of dyeing and of
re-dressing?-Yes.
3102. But it is only a fraction of those sent south require to be
re-dressed when they come back?-They all require to be
re-dressed when they come back from the dyers.
3103. What dyers do you send them to?-P. & P. Campbell,
Cockburn Street, Edinburgh.
3104. What is their charge for dyeing?-I think it 1s. 6d.; but they
give 5 per cent. off at the end of the season.
3105. Coming to the English wool; I see there are four dozen black
veils No. 5s. 33s., made with English wool: what quantity of wool
is required to make dozen of these?-It requires about 3 oz. for a
dozen, or about a quarter oz. to make a single veil.
3106. Do you sell that wool by the ounce or the pound?-We buy
it by the pound, at 32s. 6d.
3107. Then 3 oz. would cost about 6s.?-Yes; a fraction over that.
We don't give them to the knitters here; we give them to a person
in the country, who gets them knitted for us. We pay 14s. for the
knitting of them to that person in the country.
3108. Is there any particular reason for employing a party in the
country for that kind of goods?-We think we can get them better
done in that district of the country.
3109. Where is that?-In Unst.
3110. Who is your agent there?-It is a private person. I would
rather not tell her name in public.
3111. What is the expense of dressing these veils?-1s. 6d. a
dozen.
3112. Does the same proportion of them require dyeing as in the
other case?-No; none of these require dyeing, because they are
black.
3113. Then there is no expense for dyeing with regard to them?-
Very seldom.
3114. Is that sum of 21s. 6d. the whole cost of production of these
veils?-No.
3115. What additional cost is there?-There is about the same
proportion of them both in the knitting and in the dressing that gets
damaged, we cannot get the prices for them that we allow for the
knitting.
3116. Do you mean that such a large proportion of them are
destroyed in the knitting and the dressing, that you cannot sell
them?-Yes; we cannot sell them at very much more than
half-price.
3117. What proportion of them are so damaged?-I cannot say
exactly; but I should think about the same proportion as in the
other case.
3118. Therefore the high price you put upon these veils is intended
to cover the loss incurred in that way?-Yes.
3319. The damage, I understand, occurs in the dressing?-Yes;
and in the knitting too. There are a good many black lumps in the
wool, and the people are very careless, and knit in the black lumps,
and thus destroy the veils.
3120. Under what description do you sell these damaged veils?-
As job lots; but I wish to state that the woman whom we employ in
this way is a dealer, and we have to give the goods to her at a very
great reduction. We have to give them to her at the wholesale
price. The goods which we pay for the knitting are sold much
cheaper to her than to others.
3121. You pay this woman in goods?-Yes; at wholesale prices.
It is almost the same as cash, because we have to give the goods so
much cheaper.
3122. Does she keep a shop?-No; but she deals in a small way. I
think she has a room in which she has some small things. It is in
one sense a shop, and in another it is not.
3123. Do you require as much as 11s. 6d. to cover what you lose
on the job lots?-I think we do.
3124. Have you any books here which show an entry of a job lot of
that kind?-I don't have them here.
3125. How does that appear in your books?-They are entered as
so many dozen veils job.
3126. They are entered in that way in your day-book as sent south
to your correspondent in Edinburgh?-Yes; there are a good many
of the same kind of veils, which having to lie over the season get
crushed, and are taken back and re-dressed, and sent south again.
3127. But losses of that kind occur in all trades, I suppose?-I
suppose so.
3128. You said you would charge for a job lot about half-price?-
Less than half-price.
3129. Can you calculate how many job lots there would be out of
say ten dozen of these black veils?-I have often taken one-half of
them out for job lots.
3130. Do you say that, as a rule, there would be five dozen job lots
in ten dozen black veils?-Very often there are that number.
3131. Would that be an average?-I think average is scarcely so
high, but very near it.
3132. Then, of all the black veils No. 5 sent to your correspondent
in Edinburgh, nearly one-half will be job lots?-Yes; of the one
kind of veils-that is-the finest kind. There are very few of the
cheaper veils jobbed in the same way,
3133. Why are there so many of them in these fine veils?-The
worsted is so fine, that they get torn, and the slightest mistake
injures them.
3134. Will you show me an entry of some veils of the medium
quality?-Here [showing] is an entry of No. 7 veils at 24s.: these
are Shetland wool.
3135. I would rather take a case where English wool was used?-I
don't think there is any case of that kind there. No. 2 is the only
one very near it of English wool.
3136. Here [showing] is an entry of four dozen black veils No. 2,
21s.: what would the cost of wool be there?-About 10s. 6d, per
pound.
3137. What quantity of wool would be required for a dozen?-I
think 1 oz. would make three veils.,
3138. Then 4 oz. would make a dozen; that is 2s. 71/2d. as the cost
of wool for a dozen?-Yes.
3139. What would be the cost of knitting a dozen?-12s. in goods.
3140. And of dressing?-1s. 6d.
3141. Have you to dye these?-No; we don't dye them.
3142. Is there the same risk of loss from their being spoiled as in
the other case?-Not quite the same; but there are a certain
number of job lots there too.
3143. What proportion of job lots may there be in that sort of
veil?-Generally from one-eighth to one-fourth of the whole.
3144. Do these sell at half-price, or more than half-price?-
Generally about half-price-sometimes a shade less and
sometimes a shade more, according to the state of the market.
3145. Then the price you charge for them, 21s. is calculated to
cover the loss upon job lots?-Yes.
3146. There is thus a difference of nearly 5s. between the cost
price and the selling price of these No. 2 veils: is it not the fact that
that difference is allowed for profit?-It is the fact that it is not
allowed for a profit: the profit is not so much.
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3147. But it is calculated so as to allow you a certain amount of
profit?-Yes; a certain amount.
3148. That is not the actual profit receive; but the price is so
calculated as to cover the loss upon job lots and to allow you a
certain amount of profit as well?-Yes.
3149. In fact, so as to make it safe that you may get some profits-
Yes.
3150. Is that not so with the prices, of all your hosiery goods?-
With the lace goods that we get knitted it is the case. We only put
out lace goods to be knitted; we buy all the other goods over the
counter.
3151. What do you mean by lace goods?-Lace shawls and veils,
principally, and neckties.
3152. Do you call all the open lace goods Shetland goods, whether
they are made of English or Shetland wool?-Yes.
3153. This [showing] is an invoice of shawls?-Yes.
3154. Is there any material difference, with respect to the shawls,
from the calculations with regard to the cost of production and
profit which we have just made with respect to the veils?-I think
it is very similar.
3155. It comes to something like the same thing?-Yes; but the
difference is not quite so marked.
3156. You think there is not so much difference in the cost to you,
in the case of shawls, as in the case of veils?-No; because we
don't get job shawls, and we don't require to guard against that.
3157. Are there no job shawls at all?-It is extremely seldom that
there are any.
3158. Therefore, in that case, you require to make the margin
less?-Yes.
3159. What do you think would be the percentage of profit upon
the lots of veils and shawls mentioned in this account
[showing]?-I really could not say. I am quite sure that no person
in the trade could tell that.
3160. You have never made an exact calculation of it?-Never.
3161. Can you give me an approximation to it? Will it be 10 per
cent.?-Yes; it will be more.
3162. Will it be under 15?-I think it will be.
3163. That is not taking into consideration the fact that they are
paid for in goods?-There is nothing like 15 per cent. in that view.
I am taking the whole profit in every way connected with them.
3164. But the question I am asking is, whether, calculating the cost
of production in money as I have done just now, and calculating
the selling price in money, the profit realized upon these two
invoices you have handed to me will amount to 10 or 15 per
cent.?-I don't exactly understand the question.
3165. We have been calculating the cost of the article to you?-
Yes; and the real cost to us, I would say the profit will be 15 per
cent.
3166. Then, in addition to that, you sell goods to the parties who
bring in the articles?-Not in addition to that.
3167. You don't mean to say that you give your goods in return for
these articles at cost price?-No, we don't.
3168. You have a profit upon the goods?-Yes; but we don't have
a separate profit of 15 per cent. on the hosiery.
3169. But the purpose of the calculations we have been going into
just now is to show what the hosiery costs?-Yes; what is the cost
to Mr. Linklater.
3170. How do you get at the actual cost?-I cannot get at it
exactly. I really don't know what it is.
3171. But when you say you pay a woman 10s. for knitting, that is
marked down in your book as the price paid to her for knitting, just
in the same way as if it had been paid in money?-Yes; but I say
that we don't have 15 per cent. of profit on these goods over and
above the profit we have on the goods given to the knitter.
3172. But, setting aside in the meantime the fact that the women
are paid in goods, and supposing that the 10s. entered in your book
is paid to the knitter in cash, do you mean to say that your profit is
not 10 or 15 per cent.?-If it was cash, I should say it was 10 or 15
per cent.,-on some things a little more, and on some things a
little less.
3173. I am speaking of the hosiery exclusively at present; but in
point of fact the 10s. that is entered in your book as the cost of
knitting is invariably, or almost invariably, settled for by means of
goods on the other side of the account?-Yes.
3174. Are these goods charged to the knitter at wholesale prices or
at retail prices?-At retail prices.
3175. Then that retail price implies that there is a profit on the
goods?-That is what I am saying; but I say that we don't have 15
per cent. profit on the shawls, and a profit on the goods besides. I
say that if we were paying the actual cash for the knitting of the
shawls, then we might have 15 per cent. of profit.
3176. Do you mean that if you were paying actual cash for the
knitting of the shawls, you would allow smaller profit on your
goods?-I do.
3177. Then when you said with regard to the grey veils No. 1, at
18s., that the cost of knitting was 9s. a dozen, that payment to the
knitter was higher than if you paid her in cash?-Yes.
3178. How much higher?-I think that one would not be safe in
that case to pay more than 7s. or 7s. 6d., but some knitters make
rather better things than others. Of course that is only my own
opinion, and it is a thing I have never discussed either one way or
another.
3179. You don't sell the Shetland worsted?-No.
3180. And you say an average price for it is 3d. a cut?-Yes; fine
worsted may be from 3d. to 6d. a cut.
3181. The payment for that is generally in goods?-No, it is
generally in cash, but we do sometimes get it for goods.
3182. You pay for it generally in cash: how do you account for that
deviation from your general practice in Shetland?-We buy a good
lot of it from merchants, and there are a good many old women
who spin for a living, who we think require the cash. There is also
such a demand for it that we are very glad to get it for cash, when
the market is generally overstocked with everything else.
3183. Is there much Shetland wool sold in the southern
markets?-No; we only send very small quantities of it south, for
darning purposes.
3184. Are you aware whether there are merchants in Shetland,
either in Lerwick or in the country, who send Shetland wool to the
southern markets?-I know it has been sent from Yell.
3185. To a large extent?-No; it is not produced to a large extent.
All that is produced in Shetland is very trifling.
3186. How did it happen to be sent from Yell?-Because a hosiery
merchant in the south, who was selling their goods, got an order
for worsted, and it was sent to him. I only know or that one
instance.
3187. Was it sent by a proprietor?-I am not sure. It was Mr. Pole
of Greenbank who sent it. I rather think his father is proprietor of
Greenbank. Mr. Pole is now at Mossbank.
3188. What is the cost per pound of that worsted which sells at 3d.
per cut?-Ordinary good 3d. worsted should be about 20s. a
pound.
3189. Therefore it is not so dear as the English worsted?-It is
much dearer.
3190. But there is some of the English worsted high as 32s. a
pound?-Yes; but we have bought Shetland wool at 96s.