I believe that is a description of the bullet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you tested Commission Exhibit 139 with the type of

ammunition you have been looking at to determine the muzzle velocity of

that type of ammunition in this weapon?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir. The tests were run to determine the muzzle

velocity of this rifle, using this ammunition, at the Naval Research

Laboratory in Washington, D.C., on December 2, 1963, using two

different lots of ammunition--Lot No. 6,000 and Lot No. 6,003.

I might point out that there were four lots of ammunition manufactured

by the Western Cartridge Co., only two of which are available.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you give the results?

Mr. FRAZIER. Possibly I can give the results shot by shot, so the

record will show each one, and then give an average for them.

Mr. EISENBERG. Fine.

Mr. FRAZIER. The first shot, Lot 6,000, the velocity was 2199.7 feet

per second.

Shot No. 2, Lot 6,000, velocity 2,180.3 feet per second.

The third shot, velocity--same lot--velocity 2,178.9 feet per second.

The third shot, velocity--and this is Lot No. 6,003--velocity was

2,184.8 feet per second.

The fourth shot, Lot No. 6,003, was 2,137.6 feet per second.

Fifth shot, Lot No. 6,000, 2,162.7 feet per second.

The sixth shot, Lot 6,003, 2,134.8 feet per second.

An average of all shots of 2,165 feet per second.

Mr. EISENBERG. How would you characterize the differences between

the muzzle velocities of the various rounds in terms of whether that

difference was a large or small difference?

Mr. FRAZIER. This is a difference well within the manufacturer's

accepted standards of velocity variations. They permit in their

standard ammunition manual, which is a guide to the entire industry in

the United States, a 40-foot-per-second, plus or minus, variation shot

to shot in the same ammunition.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you calculated the muzzle energy of this 6.5

millimeter ammunition in this weapon?

Mr. FRAZIER. It was furnished by letter to the Commission. Yes,

sir--the muzzle energy was calculated on the basis of the average

velocity of 2,165 feet per second as 1,676 foot-pounds.

Mr. EISENBERG. This is a calculation rather than a measurement?

Mr. FRAZIER. Necessarily a calculation, because it is merely a term

used to compare one bullet against another rather than for any

practical purposes because--because of the bullet's extremely light

weight.

The bullet's velocity and weight, and gravity enter into the

determination of its energy in foot-pounds.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is the 6.5 millimeter Mannlicher-Carcano with which we

are dealing an accurate type of ammunition as opposed to other types

of military ammunition--as compared, I should say, with other types of

military ammunition?

Mr. FRAZIER. I would say it is also accurate. As other types of

ammunition the 6.5 millimeter cartridge or bullet is a very accurate

bullet, and ammunition of this type as manufactured in the United

States would give fairly reasonable accuracy. Other military cartridges

may or may not give accurate results.

But the cartridge inherently is an accurate cartridge.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is this type of cartridge readily available for purchase?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; it is. Information we have indicates that 2 million

rounds of this ammunition was reimported into this country and placed

on sale.

Mr. EISENBERG. Commission Exhibit No. 141, the cartridge found in

the chamber--I should say, was found in the chamber. Do you draw any

inference from the fact that the cartridge was found in the chamber?

In your experience, does one automatically reload whether or not one

intends to fire, or is there a special significance in the fact that

the cartridge had been chambered?

Mr. FRAZIER. I would say no, there would be no inference which I could

draw based on human behavior as to why someone would or would not

reload a cartridge. Normally, if you were--in my experience--shooting

at some object, and it was no longer necessary to shoot, you would not

reload.

You may or may not reload. It would be a normal thing to automatically

reload. But not necessarily in every instance.

Mr. McCLOY. Do you have any information of your own knowledge as to

whether this cartridge was in the chamber or not at the time the rifle

was found?

Mr. FRAZIER. Only as furnished to me--it was submitted as having been

removed from the rifle by the Dallas Police Department.

Mr. McCLOY. As having been removed from the chamber?

Mr. FRAZIER. From the chamber of the rifle.

Mr. McCLOY. But you did not remove it yourself?

Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make a test to determine the pattern of the

cartridge-case ejection of Commission Exhibit 139?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, sir; I made two studies in connection with the

ejection pattern--one to determine distance and one to determine the

angle at which the cartridge cases leave the ejection port.

Mr. EISENBERG. And did you summarize your examination by diagrams?

Mr. FRAZIER. Yes; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you show us those diagrams?

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