Mr. DULLES. That answers my question. I wanted to see where he was.
Mr. BELIN. You said you were going down Main Street at around Record at
from 5 to 10 miles an hour?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Will you take up your trip from there, please?
Mr. BAKER. As we approached the corner there of Main and Houston we
were making a right turn, and as I came out behind that building there,
which is the county courthouse, the sheriff building, well, there was a
strong wind hit me and I almost lost my balance.
Mr. BELIN. How fast would you estimate the speed of your motorcycle as
you turned the corner, if you know?
Mr. BAKER. I would say--it wasn't very fast. I almost lost balance, we
were just creeping along real slowly.
Mr. DULLES. That is turning from Main into Houston?
Mr. BAKER. That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You turned--do you have any actual speed estimate as you
turned that corner at all or just you would say very slow?
Mr. BAKER. I would say from around 5 to 6 or 7 miles an hour, because
you can't hardly travel under that and you know keep your balance.
Mr. BELIN. From what direction was the wind coming when it hit you?
Mr. BAKER. Due north.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Now, tell us what happened after you turned on to Houston Street?
Mr. BAKER. As I got myself straightened up there, I guess it took me
some 20, 30 feet, something like that, and it was about that time that
I heard these shots come out.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Could you just tell us what you heard and what you saw and what you
did?
Mr. BAKER. As I got, like I say as I got straightened up there, I was,
I don't know when these shots started coming off, I just--it seemed
to me like they were high, and I just happened to look right straight
up----
Mr. DULLES. I wonder if you would just tell us on that chart and I will
try to follow with the record where you were at this time, you were
coming down Houston.
Mr. BELIN. Sir, if you can--I plan to get that actual chart in a
minute. If we could----
Mr. DULLES. I want to see where he was vis-a-vis the building on the
chart there.
Mr. BAKER. This is Main Street and this is Houston. This is the corner
that I am speaking of; I made the right turn here. The motorcade and
all, as I was here turning the front car was turning up here, and as I
got somewhere about right here----
Mr. DULLES. That is halfway down the first block.
Mr. BELIN. No, sir; can I interrupt you for a minute?
Mr. DULLES. Certainly.
Mr. BELIN. Officer Baker, when we were in Dallas on March 20, Friday,
you walked over with me and showed me about the point you thought your
motorcycle was when you heard the first shot, do you remember doing
that?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And then we paced this off measuring it from a distance
which could be described as the north curbline of Main Street as
extended?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; that would be this one right across here.
Mr. BELIN. And we paced it off as to where you thought your motorcycle
was when you heard the first shot and do you remember offhand about
where you said this was as to what distance it was, north of the north
curbline of Main Street?
Mr. BAKER. We approximated it was 60 to 80 feet there, north of the
north curbline of Main on Houston.
Mr. DULLES. Thank you.
Mr. BELIN. Does that answer your question?
Mr. DULLES. That answers my question entirely.
Mr. BELIN. In any event you heard the first shot, or when you heard
this noise did you believe it was a shot or did you believe it was
something else?
Mr. BAKER. It hit me all at once that it was a rifle shot because I had
just got back from deer hunting and I had heard them pop over there for
about a week.
Mr. BELIN. What kind of a weapon did it sound like it was coming from?
Mr. BAKER. It sounded to me like it was a high-powered rifle.
Mr. BELIN. All right. When you heard the first shot or the first noise,
what did you do and what did you see?
Mr. BAKER. Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of
looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either
right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.
Mr. BELIN. What would the building right in front of you be?
Mr. BAKER. It would be this Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. That would be the building located on what corner of Houston
and Elm?
Mr. BAKER. That would be the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And you thought it was either from that building
or the building located where?
Mr. BAKER. On the northeast corner.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Did you see or hear or do anything else after you
heard the first noise?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. As I was looking up, all these pigeons began to
fly up to the top of the buildings here and I saw those come up and
start flying around.
Mr. BELIN. From what building, if you know, do you think those pigeons
came from?
Mr. BAKER. I wasn't sure, but I am pretty sure they came from the
building right on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see or do?
Mr. BAKER. Well, I immediately revved that motorcycle up and was going
up there to see if I could help anybody or see what was going on
because I couldn't see around this bend.
Mr. BELIN. Well, between the time you revved up the motorcycle had you
heard any more shots?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I heard--now before I revved up this motorcycle, I
heard the, you know, the two extra shots, the three shots.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any time estimate as to the spacing of any of
these shots?
Mr. BAKER. It seemed to me like they just went bang, bang, bang; they
were pretty well even to me.
Mr. BELIN. They were pretty well even.
Anything else between the time of the first shot and the time of the
last shot that you did up to the time or saw----
Mr. BAKER. No, sir; except I was looking up and I could tell it was
high and I was looking up there and I saw those pigeons flying around
there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you notice anything in either of those two buildings
either on the northeast or northwest corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BELIN. Were you looking at any of those windows?
Mr. BAKER. I kind of glanced over them, but I couldn't see anything.
Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. BAKER. Three.
Mr. BELIN. All right. After the third shot, then, what did you do?
Mr. BAKER. Well, I revved that motorcycle up and I went down to the
corner which would be approximately 180 to 200 feet from the point
where we had first stated, you know, that we heard the shots.
Mr. BELIN. What distance did you state? What we did on Friday
afternoon, we paced off from the point you thought you heard the first
shot to the point at which you parked the motorcycle, and this paced
off to how much?
Mr. BAKER. From 180 to 200 feet.
Mr. BELIN. That is where you parked the motorcycle?
Mr. BAKER. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
I wonder if we could go on this plat, Officer Baker, and first if you
could put on here with this pen, and I have turned it upside down.
With Exhibit 361, show us the spot at which you stopped your motorcycle
approximately and put a "B" on it, if you would.
Mr. BAKER. Somewhere at this position here, which is approximately 10
feet from this signal light here on the northwest corner of Elm and
Houston.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
You have put a dot on Exhibit 361 with the line going to "B" and the
dot represents that signal light, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You, on Friday, March 20, parked your motorcycle where you
thought it was parked on November 22 and then we paced off the distance
from the nearest point of the motorcycle to the stop light and it was
10 feet, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Now, I show you Exhibit 478 and ask you if you will, on this exhibit
put an arrow with the letter "B" to this stoplight.
Mr. BAKER. Talking about this one here?
Mr. BELIN. The stoplight from which we measured the distance to the
motorcycle. The arrow with the letter "B" points to the stoplight, is
that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And you stopped your motorcycle 10 feet to the east of that
stoplight, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. We then paced off the distance as to approximately how far
it was from the place your motorcycle was parked to the doorway of the
School Book Depository Building, do you remember doing that, on March
20?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And it appears on Exhibit 477 that that doorway is recessed,
is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how far that was from the place your
motorcycle was parked to the doorway?
Mr. BAKER. Approximately 45 feet.
Mr. BELIN. This same stoplight appears as you look at Exhibit 477 to
the left of the entranceway to the building, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is correct, sir.
Mr. BELIN. After you parked your motorcycle, did you notice anything
that was going on in the area?