The CHAIRMAN. Would you raise your right hand and be sworn please?
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give before this Commission
will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help
you God?
Mr. BAKER. I do, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You may be seated. I will read a little short brief
statement to you, Mr. Baker, which will indicate the purpose of our
meeting today.
The purpose of today's hearing is to hear the testimony of M. L. Baker,
Mrs. R. A. Reid, Eugene Boone, Luke Mooney, and M. N. McDonald. Officer
Baker and Mrs. Reid were in the vicinity of the Texas School Book
Depository Building at the time of the assassination.
Deputy Sheriffs Boone and Mooney assisted in the search of the sixth
floor of the Texas School Depository Building shortly after the
assassination and Officer McDonald apprehended Lee Harvey Oswald at the
Texas theater.
I read this to you just so you will know the general nature of the
inquiry we are making today and we will make of you.
Mr. Belin will conduct the examination.
Mr. BELIN. Officer Baker, would you state your legal name, please for
the Commission?
Mr. BAKER. Marrion L. Baker.
Mr. BELIN. You are known as M. L. Baker?
Mr. BAKER. That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation?
Mr. BAKER. With Dallas Police Department.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you been with the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. BAKER. Almost 10 years.
Mr. BELIN. How old are you, Officer Baker?
Mr. BAKER. Thirty-three.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you born?
Mr. BAKER. In a little town called Blum, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go to school in Blum, Tex.?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I think I went to about the sixth grade.
Mr. BELIN. Then where did you go?
Mr. BAKER. We moved to Dallas and I continued schooling at the Roger Q.
Mills School, elementary, went to junior high school, I believe it was
called Storey, and then I finished high school in Adamson High School.
Mr. BELIN. In Dallas?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after you graduated from high school?
Mr. BAKER. I think I got married.
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, at this time I must go to the court, we have
a session of the court today hearing arguments and Mr. Dulles, you
are going to be here through the morning, so if you will conduct the
meeting from this time on.
Excuse me, gentlemen.
(At this point, the Chief Justice left the hearing room.)
Mr. BELIN. After you got married, sir, what did you do. I mean in the
way of vocation?
Mr. BAKER. I took up a job as a sheetmetal man at the Continental Tin
Co.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you work for Continental?
Mr. BAKER. Approximately 3 months.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER. At that time I quit this job and went to the Ford Motor Co.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do at Ford?
Mr. BAKER. Well, at that time I stayed there approximately 11 months
and they laid me off and I went to the, I believe they call it Chance
Vought at that time, aircraft.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do at Ford, sir?
Mr. BAKER. I was a glass installer, I believe that is what you would
call it.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
When you went to this aircraft factory what did you do?
Mr. BAKER. I was a material clerk.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you work for them?
Mr. BAKER. I didn't understand?
Mr. BELIN. How long did you work for the aircraft company?
Mr. BAKER. It seemed like somewhere around a year and a half.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER. At that time it was uncertain out there whether you would
stay there or not, they were laying off a few of the men and I went
with the neighbor's trailer company which was located in Oak Cliff
there.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do there?
Mr. BAKER. I was, I guess you would call it a mechanic. I did a little
bit of everything there, I did all the road work, and did all the
delivering at that time.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay with them?
Mr. BAKER. A little over 3 years.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER. Then I became, I went with the city of Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. With the police department?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you take a course of instruction for the police
department?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; I went to the Dallas Police Academy School out
there.
Mr. BELIN. How long was this schooling period, approximately?
Mr. BAKER. Four months.
Mr. BELIN. After you were graduated from the Dallas Police Academy,
did you right away become a motorcycle policeman or were you first a
patrolman or what did you do?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir; at first I was a patrolman and I spent some 23
months in radio patrol division. And then I volunteered solo division.
Mr. BELIN. When you were in this radio car, was this a patrol car where
two men would be----
Mr. BAKER. That is right, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And have you been a motorcycle policeman then, say, for the
last 7 or 8 years?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; that is pretty close to it.
(At this point, Representative Ford left the hearing room.)
Mr. BELIN. By the way, you use the word solo; generally do people in
police cars ride in pairs during the daytime or solos or what?
Mr. BAKER. If you are talking about the squad cars at the time that I
worked in the radio patrol division, most of them were two-men squads.
Mr. BELIN. Were there some one-man squads, too?
Mr. BAKER. Very few.
Mr. BELIN. What about today, do you know what the situation is?
Mr. BAKER. They still have, say, very few two-men squads and a lot of
one-man squads now.
Mr. BELIN. They have a lot of one-man squads now?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. Is that because of a shortage of men for the jobs to cover?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. Not because of the procedures?
Mr. BAKER. Now, at night they try to ride them two men.
Mr. BELIN. In the daytime what is the situation now?
Mr. BAKER. Usually the downtown squads which I work are two men, and
the outlying squads are one man.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Coming down to November 22, 1963, what was your occupation on that day?
Mr. BAKER. I was assigned to ride a motorcycle.
Mr. BELIN. And where were you assigned to ride the motorcycle?
Mr. BAKER. At this particular day in the office up there before we went
out, I was, my partner and I, we received instructions to ride right
beside the President's car.
Mr. BELIN. About when was this that you received these instructions?
Mr. BAKER. Let's see, I believe we went to work early that day,
somewhere around 8 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN. And from whom did you receive your original instructions to
ride by the side of the President's car?
Mr. BAKER. Our sergeant is the one who gave us the instructions. This
is all made up in the captain's office, I believe.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. DULLES. Captain Curry?
Mr. BAKER. Chief Curry; our captain is Captain Lawrence.
Mr. BELIN. Were these instructions ever changed?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir. When we got to the airport, our sergeant
instructed me that there wouldn't be anybody riding beside the
President's car.
Mr. BELIN. Did he tell you why or why not?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir. We had several occasions where we were assigned
there and we were moved by request.
Mr. BELIN. On that day, you mean?
Mr. BAKER. Well, that day and several other occasions when I have
escorted them.
Mr. BELIN. On that day when did you ride or where were you supposed to
ride after this assignment was changed?
Mr. BAKER. They just--the sergeant told us just to fall in beyond it, I
believe he called it the press, behind the car.
Mr. BELIN. Beyond the press?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did he tell you this after the President's plane arrived at
the airport or was it before?
Mr. BAKER. It seemed like it was after he arrived out there.
Mr. BELIN. Had you already seen him get out of the plane?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About what time was it before the motorcade left that you
were advised of this, was it just before or 5 or 10 minutes before, or
what?
Mr. BAKER. It was 5 or 10 minutes before.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Then the motorcade left and you rode along on a motorcycle in the
motorcade?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was it a two-wheeler or a three-wheeler?
Mr. BAKER. It was a two-wheeler.
Mr. BELIN. You rode with the motorcade as it traveled through downtown
Dallas?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And eventually what is the fact as to whether or not the
motorcade got to Main Street?
Mr. BAKER. You say how fast?
Mr. BELIN. No; did the motorcade get to Main Street in Dallas, was it
going down Main Street at anytime?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; it did.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
I wonder if you would pick up your actions with the motorcade as it
went down Main Street commencing at, say, Main and Record Streets.
Mr. BAKER. Well, it was the usual escort. We were traveling about
somewhere around 5 to 10 miles an hour.
Mr. DULLES. There is a map right behind you.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. BELIN. Back on the record again.
Mr. DULLES. Would you state exactly where you were riding? We know a
good deal about this, the cars the way they were paced. There was a
car right behind the President's car that followed it, I think 6 or 7
feet right behind the President's car.
Mr. BAKER. That was the Secret Service car.
Mr. DULLES. That is right. Were you in that gap between the two cars or
what?
Mr. BAKER. No, sir; I was, it seemed to me like, there was this car.
Mr. DULLES. When you say "this car" what do you mean?
Mr. BAKER. That Secret Service car.
Mr. DULLES. The Secret Service car right behind the President?
Mr. BAKER. And there was one more car in there.
Mr. DULLES. Behind that?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. That was the Vice President's car, wasn't it?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. And then?
Mr. BAKER. There were four press cars carrying the press and I was
right at the side of that last one.
Representative BOGGS. The last press car?
Mr. DULLES. The last press car?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. So you were roughly how far behind the President's car at
this stage?
Mr. BAKER. Sometimes we got, at this stage we were possibly a half
block.
Mr. DULLES. A half block?
Mr. BAKER. Yes, sir; as I say as I turned the corner the front of it
was turning the corner at Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN. You mean as you were turning right from Main on to Houston
Street heading north onto Houston, the President's car had already
turned to the left off Houston heading down that entrance to the
expressway, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. All right.