Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. That is the one with the one gate, and works
with the hand pedal.
Mr. BALL. How does the other one work?
Mr. WILLIAMS. The other one worked by push button. You have two gates
to pull. That is the one you can pull two gates on and it will come
back up by itself. The east side elevator won't come up unless someone
is operating.
Mr. BALL. You took the elevator from the sixth floor to the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to go when you left the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I intended to stop on the fifth floor, and if there
wasn't anyone there, I intended to get out of the building, go outside.
Mr. BALL. Well, you stopped on the fifth floor. Why?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Beg pardon?
Mr. BALL. Why did you stop on the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. To see if there was anyone there.
Mr. BALL. Did you know there was anyone there before you started down?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I thought I heard somebody walking, the windows
moving or something. I said maybe someone is down there, I said to
myself. And I just went on down.
Mr. BALL. Did you find anybody there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, when I was walking up, I think Harold
Norman and James Jarman--as I remember, they was down facing the Elm
Street on the fifth floor, as I remember.
Mr. BALL. Now, I want to call your attention to another report I have
here.
On the 23d of November 1963, the report of Mr. Odum and Mr. Griffin,
FBI agents, is that you told them that you went from the sixth floor to
the fifth floor using the stairs at the west end of the building. Did
you tell them that?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I didn't tell them I was using the stairs. I came back
down to the fifth floor in the same elevator I came up to the sixth
floor on.
Mr. BALL. You did?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, also, on January 14th, did you remember talking to a
couple of agents named Carter and Griffin?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I can't remember their names, but I am sure I did.
Mr. BALL. You talked to a good many of them?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Well, they reported here that you went down to the fifth
floor, and you did so by going down on the west elevator.
Mr. WILLIAMS. The east elevator. The reason I was able to determine
whether it was the east elevator is because I think when you questioned
us the other day, the other fellows--I told you I didn't remember which
elevator first. But the other fellows said they had the west elevator.
There are only two elevators. If they are sure they had the west
elevator up, that only leaves the east elevator.
Mr. BALL. When you got to the fifth floor and left the elevator, at
that time were both elevators on the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Both west and east?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir, as I remember.
Mr. BALL. The other day, when I talked to you in Dallas, on Friday 20
March----
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And at that time were you able--did you remember which
elevator it was?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Which elevator I had?
Mr. BALL. What you had come down from six to five on.
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, I first said I wasn't sure. After the
fellows said they brought the west elevator up, I said I must have the
east elevator.
Mr. BALL. Is it fair to say now that you don't have any definite memory
as to whether it was the east or west elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I believe that would be true.
Mr. BALL. But you did bring an elevator up?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. BALL. Now, when you came down there and got off that elevator, did
you notice that the other elevator was also on that floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I didn't notice it.
Mr. BALL. Did you, later?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; as I remember.
Mr. BALL. You don't remember?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; I don't remember.
Mr. BALL. When you got off the elevator, you went over to the front of
the building, the Elm Street side.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I did.