Mr. McCLOY. That is in order that he would have an elevator to come
down when he wanted to come down?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. On the 23d of November 1963, you talked to two FBI agents
according to the record I have here, Bardwell Odum and Will Griffin,
and they reported that you said that as they were going down, that you
saw Lee on the fifth floor.
Mr. WILLIAMS. I told him the fifth or the sixth. I told him I wasn't
sure about it.
Mr. BALL. And were you sure at that time?
Mr. WILLIAMS. About which floor it was?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. WILLIAMS. No; I wasn't.
Mr. BALL. Are you sure today?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am not sure today.
Mr. BALL. But you think it was the fifth or the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Are you sure it was Oswald you talked to?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure it was Oswald. I didn't talk to him.
Mr. BALL. But you heard him?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I heard him.
Mr. BALL. You went down to the first floor.
What did you do?
Mr. WILLIAMS. We went down to the first floor. I think the first thing
I did, I washed up, then I went into the domino room where I kept my
lunch, and I got my lunch, came back out and went back up.
Mr. BALL. Did you carry your lunch that day?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. Do you usually carry your lunch to work?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; I do.
Mr. BALL. That was your habit, carrying your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And that day, on November 22d, how did you carry your lunch
from home to work?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I carried my lunch from home to work in a brown paper
bag. I believe it was size No. 6 or maybe 8--paper bag.
Mr. BALL. Number 6 or 8 size paper bag?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Small bag?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Like you get in the grocery store?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you have in your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I had a chicken sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Describe the sandwich. What did it have in it besides chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it just had chicken in it. Chicken on the bone.
Mr. BALL. Chicken on the bone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The chicken was not boned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was just chicken on the bone. Just plain old chicken.
Mr. BALL. Did it have bread around it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, it did.
Mr. BALL. Before you went upstairs, did you get anything to drink?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I got a small bottle of Dr. Pepper from the Dr. Pepper
machine.
Mr. BALL. Did you have anything else in your lunch besides chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I had a bag of Fritos, I believe it was.
Mr. BALL. Anything else?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No; I believe that was all.
Mr. BALL. You say you went back upstairs. Where did you go?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went back up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was
going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he
wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by
the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the
sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL. Did anybody go back?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Nobody came back up. So I just left.
Mr. BALL. Where did you eat your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I ate my lunch--I am not sure about this, but the third
or the fourth set of windows, I believe.
Mr. BALL. Facing on what street?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Facing Elm Street.
Mr. McCLOY. What floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Sixth floor.
Mr. DULLES. You ate your lunch on the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. And you were all alone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you sit on while you ate your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. First of all, I remember there was some boxes behind me.
I just kind of leaned back on the boxes first. Then I began to get a
little impatient, because there wasn't anyone coming up. So I decided
to move to a two-wheeler.
Mr. BALL. A two-wheeler truck, you mean?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember sitting on this two-wheeler.
By that time, I was through, and I got up and I just left then.
Mr. DULLES. How much of the room could you see as you finished your
lunch there? Was your view obstructed by boxes of books, or could you
see a good bit of the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth
floor, because the books at the time were stacked so high. I could
see only in the path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not
possibly see anything to the east side of the building.
But just one aisle, the aisle I was standing in I could see just about
to the west side of the building. So far as seeing to the east and
behind me, I could only see down the aisle behind me and the aisle to
the west of me.
Representative FORD. Have you ever had any trouble with the law at all?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir.
Representative FORD. No difficulty as far as the law is concerned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I have never been inside of a courthouse before.
Mr. BALL. I have an exhibit here marked 484.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 484 for
identification.)
Mr. BALL. Do you recognize that?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I recognize that.
Mr. BALL. What do you see?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I see a two-wheeler, a Dr. Pepper bottle, and some boxes
in the windows.
Mr. BALL. And is that anywhere near where you were sitting?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; that is the exact place I was sitting.
Mr. BALL. That is the two-wheeler you were sitting on?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, when you were on the two-wheeler, as you were sitting
there, did you have a view, could you see down towards the southeast
corner?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; I couldn't see anything as I remember there.
About the only thing that I could see from there would be just the top
edge of the window, because the boxes were stacked up.
Mr. BALL. The boxes were stacked up high?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Let me show you another picture here.
Mr. DULLES. You are not introducing that at this time?
Mr. BALL. I will. I am going to introduce them all.
Let's go back to the diagram, which is 483. Could you mark on this
diagram the window that is shown in this picture 484--that is, the
place where you were sitting and eating your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. That would be facing Elm Street. I would say right around
in this.
Mr. BALL. In other words, you are marking here something between--some
area between the third and the fourth window.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You are not able to tell exactly?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No; I am not.
Mr. BALL. The witness has drawn a red rectangle to show the approximate
area which runs from about the center of the second row of windows from
the southeast corner over to about the fourth pane of windows.
Mr. WILLIAMS. I would say about right in here, third or fourth.
Mr. BALL. Third or fourth?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, you have made two marks, so I will identify the last
mark. Between the third and fourth, is that right?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. We will mark the rectangle, and we will mark it "W-3" and
"W-4" the end of the lines.
Mr. McCLOY. What time of day was this, when you were eating your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. About 12.
Mr. McCLOY. Just 12?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, as you looked towards the southeast corner from where
you were sitting, could you see the windows in the southeast corner?
Mr. WILLIAMS. In the southeast--that is--the southeast. I really don't
remember if I seen anything--it would be just the top edge of the
window, as I remember.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anyone else up there that day?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, I did not.
Mr. BALL. How long did you stay there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I was there from--5, 10, maybe 12 minutes.
Mr. BALL. Finish your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. No longer than it took me to finish the chicken
sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Did you eat the chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Where did you put the bones?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I don't remember exactly, but I think I put some of them
back in the sack. Just as I was ready to go I threw the sack down.
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the sack?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think I just dropped it there.
Mr. BALL. Anywhere near the two-wheeler?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think it was.
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the Dr. Pepper bottle?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Just set it down on the floor.
Mr. BALL. There is a pop bottle that you see in the picture, 484--does
that look like anything like the pop bottle that you were drinking from
that day?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I believe that was the bottle--I believe. I am not sure.
But it looks like it.
Mr. BALL. Did you leave the bottle somewhere near the point shown of
the bottle shown on 484?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I am really not sure about it. I don't think I left it
there. I am not sure. I think I left it sitting up on top of the boxes,
right to the side of the two-wheeler. As I remember--I am not sure
about it. It is possible that I could have put it there.
Mr. BALL. Your memory is that the Dr. Pepper bottle was left on top of
the boxes?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Beg pardon?
Mr. BALL. Your memory is that you left the Dr. Pepper bottle on top of
some of the cartons?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember. I am not sure.
Mr. BALL. It is shown there on the floor.
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you left there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went down to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. How did you get down there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I took an elevator down.
Mr. BALL. You didn't go down the stairs?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which elevator did you take?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I took the east elevator down.