Mrs. PAINE. Oh, no, she sounded, as I recall it, as a call from a woman
who was doing her best to simply achieve the things she had to do but
was under a tremendous strain.
Mr. JENNER. Was any mention made of the death of her husband?
Mrs. PAINE. He was not yet dead, he had been shot but he was not yet
dead.
Mr. JENNER. Was any mention made between you in this conversation of
the fact that Lee Oswald had been shot?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall such.
Mr. JENNER. You didn't mention it?
Mrs. PAINE. I did not tell her; no.
Mr. JENNER. Did you--it might be natural that you would express
sympathy. Did you mention the subject at all, sympathetical or
otherwise?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall mentioning the subject and as I say, I have
this distinct feeling that she knew, and I knew she knew but what
caused that, I can't identify.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have the feeling, if I may use some vernacular,
that she was "under wraps" or rather she was bereft and just seeking to
do----
Mrs. PAINE. I had no feeling she was restraining herself from saying
any particular things.
Mr. JENNER. Was under restraint?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. From some outside source?
Mrs. PAINE. I had no such feeling.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mrs. PAINE. I then, well, I should say there were one or two officers
from the Irving Police Department there who were waiting to take the
things that she directed----
Mr. JENNER. The police officers had already arrived at your home?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I guess I remembered it as virtually simultaneous.
I might fill in, whether it is important to your inquiry or not,
the moment the television announced that Lee Oswald had been shot,
an Irving Police patrol car that had been going by my house and had
hesitated in front, stopped and the officer got out carrying a rifle
and came into my house, closed the curtains and said he was here to
protect me. I later learned that he thought Mrs. Oswald, Marina Oswald,
was in the house, and he had been directed by his car radio to come in,
and he then closed all the blinds and peered out. And it was in the
midst of this time that Marina called, so you see the officers were
there already on other business.
Mr. JENNER. The officer was in your home when you talked with Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; when Marina made the call.
Mr. JENNER. Did you say anything to the officers that Marina had called
when you finished that conversation?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You told them?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you tell them anything of the substance of the call?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; that I was to get some things and I think they had
the same information separately a different way from a car radio or
something at the same time, which was to put some things together to
take to her. I did then pack one or two, or even three of the suit
cases we talked about yesterday with baby things.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, Mrs. Paine. You keep referring to one or two or
three. Were there as many as three?
Mrs. PAINE. I think there were as many as three, including a very
small, you might say, cosmetic case, only more, not as fancy as that.
This was in her room, and I recall looking in it and seeing a family
album of photographs and thinking this had better be in her hands, and
included that along with clothes. I sent a childs toy, some things that
I thought might be helpful to her in keeping her children happy as well
as the individual items she had asked for specifically.
Mr. McCLOY. Did you sense any note of estrangement at all between you
and Marina when she telephoned you?
Mrs. PAINE. No; the situation was strained.
Mr. McCLOY. Strained because she hadn't reappeared, you mean?
Mrs. PAINE. No; because her husband had been shot.
Mr. McCLOY. No; I meant in your conversation with her was there any
indication of any coolness between you?
Mrs. PAINE. No; none I detected.
Mr. JENNER. Had you noticed any when you were in the police station?
Mrs. PAINE. Oh, no.
Mr. JENNER. On the previous day?
Mrs. PAINE. Oh, no.
Mr. JENNER. None at all. So that up to the moment of this telephone
conversation and after you finished you had no feeling there was any
estrangement, any coolness, any change in attitude on the part of
Marina toward you as a person?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. McCLOY. Have you felt any evidence of that since?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; and that has several parts to it and I could easily go
into it now.
Mr. JENNER. I was going to ask her some general questions and Senator
Cooper asked me if I would permit her just to go through the day as she
has without, with a minimum of, interruptions so that you and he might,
and Representative Ford, might ask some general questions before you
left, so that is what I have done.
Mr. McCLOY. Have you completed your report?
Mrs. PAINE. That brings us to the 24th so that all else is really quite
post the assassination.
Mr. McCLOY. There is one thing I would like to ask before I go, if I
may, and that is your husband testified that several times he had moved
this blanket when it was in the garage. Can you fix the date when he
was in your house and working in the garage so that he was compelled to
move the blanket? When did he come to----
Mrs. PAINE. He normally came on Friday evening. He would sometimes come
on a Sunday afternoon, and either of those times could have been times
that he had worked in the garage.
Mr. McCLOY. That was all through September, October?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; September, October; yes.
Mr. McCLOY. But when he had been working there he never mentioned to
you any--about the existence of this blanket, package which he had been
compelled to move?
Mrs. PAINE. No. That didn't come up until after the assassination.
Mr. McCLOY. It didn't come up until after the assassination.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, you are seeking to refresh your recollection
from what document, please?
Mrs. PAINE. I am looking at a calendar to see if there is anyway that I
can tell when Michael was in the house.
Mr. JENNER. That is Commission exhibit number what?
Mrs. PAINE. 401. But it has not helped me in refreshing my memory.
Mr. McCLOY. Did you have contacts with the FBI and if so what were they
before the assassination?
Mrs. PAINE. An FBI agent was out, I have learned since, on November 1.
I made no note of the day for myself. Sat down and talked in a relaxed
way and for sometime in my living room. He said that the FBI liked
to make it plain to people who have been in this country sometime,
immigrated from an iron curtain country if they were experiencing any
blackmail pressure from their home country, that they were welcome, and
invited to discuss it with the FBI if they so choose.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me, Marina was present?
Mrs. PAINE. Marina was present.
Mr. JENNER. Did she overhear?
Mrs. PAINE. I am not certain--I tried to translate some of this
conversation, I am not certain how good my translation was or how well
I conveyed it, or even if I conveyed it to her.
Mr. JENNER. But you do recall translating some of the conversation to
her?
Mrs. PAINE. I do recall translating some of the conversation indeed.
Mr. JENNER. Were you at times asked to address Marina to convey
something that the FBI agent asked you to convey to her and then to
translate in the reverse to him?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall anything as formal as that; no. The agent
and I conversed some in English. He said, for instance, that, well he
was interested in knowing if Lee Oswald lived here. I told him he did
not, that he had a room in town; he asked if I knew where the room was
and I said I did not. He asked if he was working and I said yes, and
that he was working at the Texas School Book Depository. I haven't gone
over any of this yet, it must have been in conversation with you.
Mr. JENNER. You testified to this yesterday afternoon?
Mrs. PAINE. I thought I did. It sounds familiar.
Mr. McCLOY. I just wanted to fix for my own benefit the number of times
you saw FBI agents prior to the assassination in the company of Marina.
Mr. JENNER. There was a succeeding date?
Mrs. PAINE. There was a succeeding date which again I have been told by
the FBI was November 5, the first time.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall it was a few days after the first man came?