Mrs. PAINE. She was clearly surprised also.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. You made no inquiry of her I take it then of any
explanation made by Lee Oswald as to why he had come out unannounced
and unexpectedly?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. At least not as of that moment.
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Now when you had your aside with Marina, where was Lee
Oswald?
Mrs. PAINE. On the grass near the tree playing with June as closely as
I can remember.
Mr. JENNER. How long did you and Marina remain in conversation at that
place, position?
Mrs. PAINE. Less than a minute.
Mr. JENNER. Then what did you do?
Mrs. PAINE. I can only reconstruct it.
Mr. JENNER. That is all I am asking you to do.
Mrs. PAINE. I must have gotten groceries from the car.
Mr. JENNER. You mean reconstruct in the sense of rationalizing?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. I wish you would give me first your recollection.
Mrs. PAINE. I am certain of going into the house, and I recall standing
just inside the doorway.
Mr. JENNER. Of your home?
Mrs. PAINE. Of my home.
Mr. JENNER. But inside the home?
Mrs. PAINE. But inside now.
Mr. JENNER. Which way were you facing when you were standing inside the
doorway?
Mrs. PAINE. I was facing partly toward the door, toward the loud
speaker. I was facing this way.
Mr. JENNER. Why were you facing outwardly?
Mrs. PAINE. I believe I turned. I was coming in. I believe I turned to
speak to Lee as he came in.
Mr. JENNER. Lee followed you in the house?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And did Marina come in?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall whether she was already in or still out.
Mr. JENNER. But you do have a recollection that Lee followed you into
your home.
Mrs. PAINE. And I recall very clearly the position I was in in the room
and the position he was in.
Mr. JENNER. Tell us.
Mrs. PAINE. I was turned part way toward the door. He was coming in,
having just entered the door and in front of this loud speaker to which
I refer.
Mr. JENNER. What was the loud speaker?
Mrs. PAINE. The loud speaker is part of the Hi-Fi set. It stands--it is
a big thing.
Mr. JENNER. Did something occur at that moment?
Mrs. PAINE. And it was at that time that I said to him "Our President
is coming to town." I believe I said it in Russian, our President is
coming to town in Russian.
Mr. JENNER. And you gave us his response yesterday but you might do it
again.
Mrs. PAINE. He said "Uh, yeah" and brushed on by me, walked on past.
Mr. JENNER. Did he have an attitude of indifference?
Mrs. PAINE. It was clearly both indifference and not wanting to go on
and talk, because he moved away from me on into the kitchen.
Mr. JENNER. He went into your kitchen. What did you do?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically.
Mr. JENNER. We are anxious to follow minute by minute, to the extent
possible, all the movements of which you had any knowledge of Lee
Oswald on this late afternoon and throughout the evening. Did Lee
Oswald remain in your presence right at this time when you entered the
house? If so, how long? You had this short conversation. Did he leave
your presence then and go to some other part of your home?
Mrs. PAINE. He might have gone to some other part of the home. He
didn't leave the house to my recollection.
Mr. JENNER. I didn't mean to imply that, only whether he remained in
the general area in which you were in your home?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. Did he pass from your sight?
Mrs. PAINE. Probably.
Mr. JENNER. Before you guess about it, give us your best recollection.
Senator COOPER. Tell what you remember.
Mr. McCLOY. Yes; just in your own words tell us what your best
recollection of this afternoon was without second to second sequence.
Mrs. PAINE. Clearly just having come from the grocery store I put the
bags down in the kitchen and unpacked them, put them away, started
supper.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any sense that Lee Oswald was in and about the
inside of the house while you were doing this?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have a recollection that he did not go out into the
yard during this period?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall. If he did, it would have been the back. It
would have been unusual for him to go in the front yard.
Mr. JENNER. Now you were preparing your dinner in your kitchen, were
you not?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And does the entrance to your garage--is there an entrance
to your garage opening from your kitchen into the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. There is an entrance to the garage from the kitchen; yes.
Mr. JENNER. And one of the exhibits we qualified this morning is a
picture of that area of your home, is it not?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Your answer was yes?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. At anytime while you were preparing dinner was Lee Oswald
in the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. And you were aware of that fact, were you?
Mrs. PAINE. That is my best recollection that he was not in the garage
while I was preparing dinner.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know where he was while you were preparing dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion to look into your garage area at
anytime during the period you were preparing dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. Not that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Where was Marina during the period you were preparing
dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. I'd have to guess.
Senator COOPER. Just tell what you know.
Mr. JENNER. Tell what you know first.
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have a recollection with respect to whether she was
inside the house or outside the house?
Mrs. PAINE. I recall that she was inside the house.
Mr. JENNER. And where was the child June with respect to whether she
was inside or outside the house?
Mrs. PAINE. She was inside.
Mr. JENNER. Having located Marina and the Oswald daughter inside your
home, does that refresh your recollection as to whether Lee was also
inside the house?
Mrs. PAINE. As far as I remember, he was also inside the house.
Mr. JENNER. Was he playing with his daughter?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. How long did it take you to prepare dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. Probably half an hour.
Mr. JENNER. I am unaware of the shades of evening and night in Texas.
By the time you had completed dinner had night fallen or was it still
light?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER. What time does nightfall come in Texas in November, late
November?
Mrs. PAINE. I would say between 7 and 7:30.
Mr. JENNER. I shouldn't have been as broad as I was. I meant to locate
it in Irving, Tex., rather than Texas generally. About 7:30?
Mrs. PAINE. Between 7 and 7:30. I don't know exactly.
Mr. JENNER. When did you sit down for dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. I suppose around 6:30.
Mr. JENNER. Is that your best recollection?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically.
Mr. JENNER. Was it still light outside, natural light?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did Lee Oswald join you for dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes; he did.
Mr. JENNER. And how long did dinner take?
Mrs. PAINE. Perhaps half an hour.
Mr. JENNER. Did he remain in your presence during all of the dinner
period?
Mrs. PAINE. Either there or in the living room.
Mr. JENNER. At anytime during the dinner period, did Lee Oswald leave
your home?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You have a firm recollection of that?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. At anytime during that period did Lee Oswald enter the
garage area?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. Did Marina?
Mrs. PAINE. Not to my recollection.
Mr. JENNER. Did you?
Mrs. PAINE. The deepfreeze is in the garage. I don't recall having
gone, but I go all the time for goods for the baby, for my little boy.
Mr. JENNER. And did you use anything from the deepfreeze normally, in
connection with the preparation of an evening meal?
Mrs. PAINE. I could have gone out then too.
Mr. JENNER. Though you don't recall it specifically, it is possible
that you went into the garage.
Mrs. PAINE. It is possible.
Mr. JENNER. Garage area.
Senator COOPER. But you don't remember?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't remember. This is something I do as habit.
Mr. JENNER. It is so much habit that you don't single it out?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. In any event, if you entered the garage, it was pursuant to
a normal practice of preparing dinner and not because you were seeking
to look for something out of the ordinary?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. Or that your attention was arrested by something out of the
ordinary?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. After the dinner hour or half hour, whatever it took, what
did you do? Let's take say the 1-hour period following your dinner?
Mrs. PAINE. I was busy putting my children to bed.
Mr. JENNER. Where were you located during that period of time?
Mrs. PAINE. I normally read them a story in the bedroom which is the
back bedroom on the north side.
Senator COOPER. Did you do it that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Senator COOPER. Not normally but do you remember that you did it?
Mrs. PAINE. I am certain I read them a story.
Senator COOPER. What?
Mrs. PAINE. I am certain I read them a story. Whether they also had a
bath that night I can't remember.
Mr. JENNER. Now being in your children's bedroom, which I take it was
also your bedroom----
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. That would be the rear portion of your home at the corner?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. When you were in that room, what can you see with respect
to other portions of your home?
Mrs. PAINE. The view from the bedroom door.
Mr. JENNER. Looking into what?
Mrs. PAINE. Looking west looks into the kitchen-dining area right past
the doorway entrance to the garage.
Mr. JENNER. Can you see into the living room area of your home?
Mrs. PAINE. From that doorway you can; yes.
Mr. JENNER. If you stand in the doorway, I take it you can do so.
Mrs. PAINE. But sitting on the bed reading a story; no.
Mr. JENNER. But if you stood in the middle of the room and looked out
that doorway from your bedroom, you would look into the kitchen area,
not into the living room area?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. How long did you remain in your bedroom putting your
children to bed?
Mrs. PAINE. That process can take as much as an hour and often does.
Mr. JENNER. Give us your very best recollection of how long it took
this evening?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically how long.
Mr. JENNER. Is it your recollection that you pursued your normal course
in getting them to bed. You read a story, I take it, did you?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you undressed the children and placed them in the crib
or bed and you say that normally takes approximately an hour?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you remained in the bedroom during all of that 1 hour
period?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, I wouldn't be certain of that; no. I also prepare a
bottle which involves going to the kitchen, and heating milk. I also
chase my children. They don't always just stay in the bedroom.
Mr. JENNER. Did you see Lee Harvey Oswald either in or about your home
from time to time during this hour period that you were preparing your
children for sleep that evening?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't recall specifically except that I was aware he was
in the home.
Senator COOPER. How would you be aware he was in the home?
Mrs. PAINE. I would have noticed it if he had gone out the door it
seems to me, out the front door. One can easily hear, and that would be
an unusual thing.
Mr. JENNER. Why would it be unusual?
Mrs. PAINE. Well, he never did go out the front door in the evening.
Mr. JENNER. Once he entered your home his normal practice was to stay
inside?
Mrs. PAINE. Was to turn on the television set and sit.
Mr. JENNER. Did he turn on the television set?
Mrs. PAINE. I don't believe he watched television that evening.
Mr. JENNER. Could you tell us of any awareness on your part of his
presence in the home, that is you were definitely conscious that he
remained inside the house?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And was not out in the yard?
Senator COOPER. How would you know that?
Mrs. PAINE. It is a small house. You can hear if the front door or the
back door opens. But I can't be absolutely certain.
Senator COOPER. Is what you are saying that you don't remember, or
rather that you don't remember that the front door or the back door did
open?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right. I am also saying there is very little about
that evening that stood out as unusual. I have tried to say what I
could think of that did stand out as unusual. I think the rest melds
together with other evenings which were similar.
Senator COOPER. I don't want to interrupt you but I think she has got
to tell what she remembers that evening.
Mr. McCLOY. Yes. I think without the meticulous minute by minute, just
say what it is.
Senator COOPER. If you don't remember, you don't remember.
Mrs. PAINE. I am sorry.
Mr. McCLOY. You can't break it down into sequence that far back?
Senator COOPER. Just tell what you remember.
Mr. JENNER. Go ahead and tell us, Mrs. Paine, the course of events that
evening, with particular reference to what we are interested in, what
Lee Oswald did and where he was during the course of that evening.
Mrs. PAINE. I have already said that after I had my children in bed, I
went to the garage to work.
Mr. JENNER. Was it now nighttime?
Mrs. PAINE. It was now dark, I recall about 9 o'clock. I noticed that
the light was on.
Mr. JENNER. Was the door to the garage open?
Mrs. PAINE. No; it was closed.
Mr. JENNER. It was closed. And you noticed the light on when you opened
the door.
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Had the light been on at anytime to your knowledge prior to
that?
Mrs. PAINE. Not that evening; no.
Mr. JENNER. When entering and leaving the garage during the course of
your preparing dinner, to your recollection, was there any light on at
that time?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Mr. JENNER. You didn't turn the light on at anytime up to this moment
of which you speak?
Mrs. PAINE. No.
Senator COOPER. Had you been in the garage that evening before the time
that you found the light on?
Mrs. PAINE. If I had only in this course of habit which also included
if it was dark, flipping the switch on and flipping it off.
Senator COOPER. You don't remember if you did that or not before.
Mrs. PAINE. Specifically, no.
Mr. McCLOY. She said she might have been.
Mr. JENNER. Is that a hand switch?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. You must trip it. Where is the switch located, in the
kitchen or in the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. The switch is in the garage.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chairman, the witness has before her Commission Exhibit
435, which is a picture of her home, looking through the door leading
to the garage from the kitchen. Is the light switch shown in that
picture?
Mrs. PAINE. No; it is not.
Mr. JENNER. And why is it not shown?
Mrs. PAINE. The light switch that turns on the light in the garage is
on the interior of the garage approximately through the wall from the
switch you see in the picture, which lights the kitchen, or the dining
area overhead light.
Mr. JENNER. And the switch that is shown in the picture, is it to the
right of the doorjamb?
Mrs. PAINE. That is right.
Mr. JENNER. And rather high?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Placed high, and on the picture it is shown as having, oh,
is that a white plastic plate?
Mrs. PAINE. It is exactly.
Mr. JENNER. And the switch that lights the garage light is directly
opposite on the other side of the wall inside the garage?
Mrs. PAINE. That is my recollection; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Now directing your attention to Commission Exhibit 429,
that is a picture, is it not, of the garage interior of your home taken
from the outlet door of the garage and looking back toward the kitchen?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Is that correct? And does that show the doorway from the
garage into your kitchen?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. In other words, the opposite side of the wall, which is
shown in Commission Exhibit 435?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And are you able to locate the light switch on Commission
Exhibit 429 which is the garage interior exhibit? That is, can you see
the switch?
Mrs. PAINE. No; I am not certain I can. This is something else.
Mr. JENNER. I point out to you the configuration which is halfway down
the garage doorjamb outline.
Mrs. PAINE. Right next to the top surface of the deepfreeze.
Mr. JENNER. Yes. Is that the light switch?
Mrs. PAINE. I thought it was higher.
Senator COOPER. You know there is a light switch there, don't you?
Mr. McCLOY. There is a light switch there.
Mrs. PAINE. I know I don't pull the string which is there clearly in
the picture.
Mr. JENNER. You step down into the garage do you, or is it at the
kitchen floor level?
Mrs. PAINE. Are you still asking?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. PAINE. No; you don't step down, perhaps 3 inches all together.
Mr. JENNER. The floor of the garage and the floor of the kitchen are at
a level?
Mrs. PAINE. Approximately at a level.
Mr. JENNER. Why did you enter the garage on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE. I was about to lacquer some children's large blocks,
playing blocks.
Mr. JENNER. These are blocks that you had cut at some other time?
Mrs. PAINE. I had cut them on the saw in the garage; yes; previously.
Mr. JENNER. Proceed.
Representative FORD. Mr. Jenner, may I ask a question there?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Representative FORD. Some people have a habit of turning lights on and
off again regularly. Others are a little careless about it. Would you
describe your attitude in this regard?
Mrs. PAINE. I am definitely a person with the habit of turning them off.
Representative FORD. This is a trait that you have?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Representative FORD. Now, if you were to go out from the kitchen to the
garage, is it easy for you as you go out the door to turn the light on?
Mrs. PAINE. And off; yes.
Representative FORD. It is very simple for you to do so?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Representative FORD. Both going out and coming in?
Mrs. PAINE. Yes.
Representative FORD. And as you go out on your right or left?
Mrs. PAINE. It is on my left as I go out of the garage.
Representative FORD. And as you come in from the garage to the kitchen
it is on your right.