Mr. JENNER. Well, if it were followed?
Mr. PIZZO. If it was followed--he drives the customer to a point and
lets the customer drive it back. But the only way to demonstrate an
automobile is that. You drive it and demonstrate it as you are driving
it.
Mr. JENNER. Now, since you weren't present at this point we are relying
on normal procedures.
Mr. PIZZO. Right, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And a remark made by Mr. Bogard that the customer, whoever
he was, had been taken for a demonstration ride by Bogard?
Mr. PIZZO. By Bogard.
Mr. JENNER. Now, have you now stated everything that occurred that
particular day, occurred or said to you on that particular day?
Mr. PIZZO. Yes; I can't remember anything else.
Mr. JENNER. Now, was there a subsequent incident or something that
occurred with respect to the incident you have now related, is there a
second stage of this?
Mr. PIZZO. Yes; after the assassination.
Mr. JENNER. Now, when after the assassination?
Mr. PIZZO. The same day--within, oh, 4 or 5 o'clock or something like
that.
Mr. JENNER. Of the--late in the day on the 22d of November?
Mr. PIZZO. When this man was captured, and the name announced over the
radio, the possible suspect, or the suspect's name was announced on the
radio, we had all radios on in the showroom.
Mr. JENNER. You had your radios and television on?
Mr. PIZZO. No; just radios.
Mr. JENNER. Just radio?
Mr. PIZZO. Well, we had the television set up in the Continental
Department that we were all watching.
Mr. JENNER. And when you say "all," does that include Mr. Bogard?
Mr. PIZZO. That includes Mr. Bogard.
Mr. JENNER. All right, relate what happened--you were all sitting
around looking at the television, were you?
Mr. PIZZO. I wasn't--I was standing around listening to the radio.
We were all in just different groups--this is a mighty big showroom,
Downtown Lincoln-Mercury, it is 350 feet long, and we were sitting
around listening to the news and also doing the work that had to be
done, and when the suspect's name was announced, I was standing right
in the middle of the showroom floor and----
Mr. JENNER. This is this great big showroom--the 350-foot long showroom?
Mr. PIZZO. Yes; but right in front of my office is where the group was
standing, because that's a front door and there are three front doors,
but this is the first front door, and we were standing right there. Of
course, all of us were looking out at the underpass, which we are right
under, the triple underpass there.
Mr. JENNER. Near the area of the assassination scene?
Mr. PIZZO. That's right, sir; we are on this side--the Oak Cliff side
of the bridge, and, of course, we were all standing at the big windows
looking at that area and listening to the radio and a remark was made,
"Well," now, I didn't hear this. It was told to me just a few minutes
later.
Mr. JENNER. By whom?
Mr. PIZZO. By some salesman there and I just can't remember which one
it was. I think we had around 15 or 16 salesmen there at the time. We
weren't all standing around, but someone made the remark that, "Al
Bogard lost his prospect."
Mr. JENNER. You overheard that?
Mr. PIZZO. I overheard that. I said, "What do you mean?" They said,
"Well--" he pulled out a card, his own business card like this
[indicating].
Mr. JENNER. Your salesman did?
Mr. PIZZO. Albert Bogard--this salesman made the remark that Al Bogard
had pulled out a business card and written behind the business card--a
lot of salesmen will do that--they will write down names of prospects
on the card and if they don't have a piece of paper, they will just
pull out one of their cards and write the names down, and he said,
"Well, there goes my prospect," when he heard the name Lee Harvey
Oswald, so he dumped it in the wastebasket.
Now, I didn't know about this until a few minutes later and I didn't
make much of it at that time. That was it--at that time. I didn't know
that that was a custom he had--a week or two before it just--nothing
never entered my mind, we were all pretty saddened by the thing, and
that was it for that day. Let's see, I believe, was that a Friday or
Saturday?
Mr. JENNER. The 22d was on a Friday.
Mr. PIZZO. It was on a Friday--I want to tell it to you as correct as I
can, that's why I'm wondering.
One of the boys said the next day that he had lost his customer and the
guy that they have got is the man that Bogard has as a prospect, so I
says, "Let's look--where is the writeup?" The first thing that I had in
my mind was--get the writeup, so everyone was looking for the writeup.
By now Bogard wasn't there, I think it was after lunch or breakfast,
so we went through the drawers, and we went through the baskets and I
called the two porters we have in the garage--called them in there and
I said, "Who dumped the baskets out last night," and one fellow said,
"I did." I said, "Where?" We have a trash barrel--not a barrel, but
it's a huge incinerator and the trash men come by and pick it up, and
so we went back there and I jumped inside this thing--that's how big
it is and started throwing out the papers, looking for some kind of a
writeup, and never could find anything. I just wanted the writeup to
see if he did have a writeup, but by that time Bogard came back and I
asked him, I said, "Al, have you got a writeup on that man, the man
that they have got locked up?" He said, "Yes," and I said, "Where is
it?" He said, "Well, it's not a writeup--I've got it on a card and I
just took it and threw it down in the basket."
Mr. JENNER. The day before?
Mr. PIZZO. The day before. I said, "Well, where is it now?" He said, "I
don't know."
Mr. JENNER. Did you look through the refuse container to try to find
that card?
Mr. PIZZO. We looked for the card to--we went right back again and did
the same thing, and he helped look for it and we had the colored boy
there helping us looking for it and then when some FBI men came there
they went in there and looked for it.
Mr. JENNER. We became very interested in that.
Mr. PIZZO. Me too. So, I kind of said, "Are you kidding us or what? You
either have his name or you don't." He said, "Well, Frank, don't you
remember?" I said, "I don't remember." He said, "I brought him to your
office and you said he needed $200 or $300 down," and I said, "Yes, I
guess I remember." He said, "Well, you should remember because when I
took that man for a ride he drove like a wild man, and besides we had
Gene Wilson's car and Gene got mad because we used up all his gas." He
said, "He drove so fast, he scared the daylights out of me. Don't you
remember me coming back and saying how mad I was?"
I said, "I just don't remember that particular moment." That's how he
was trying to get me to remember that particular time when he took him
for a ride. I said, "I just really don't remember that night--that much
of it."
Now, I'll tell you how I think I recognized the man--this was after
they had him on television and they showed him on television which was
Monday or Tuesday or something like that--it was a few days after.
Mr. JENNER. You mean a rerun?
Mr. PIZZO. No; of the Oswalds--when they showed him on television--the
first pictures of him on television, I saw that.
Mr. JENNER. And do you recall what day that was?
Mr. PIZZO. It was past a weekend. It was not Saturday--it might have
been Sunday and probably it was Monday, but it wasn't Friday or
Saturday, and I'm not sure it was Sunday, but I think it was on a
Monday, and of course--the seed planted--I got to thinking about it and
I looked at him and he looked familiar to me, and at that time I could
have sworn it was him, because I remember a man in a T-shirt. I don't
mean the open T-shirt but a full T-shirt.
Mr. JENNER. Like the kind you wore in the Marines?
Mr. PIZZO. Well, it wasn't green, but that type--the full T-shirt with
a sleeve.
Mr. JENNER. About a half sleeve?
Mr. PIZZO. Yes; and his face. And he just looked the type. He just
looked like the type of guy that I was talking to that day, and when I
came back to work the next day, of course we were all in there talking
about it, and we talked about different incidences that reminded me of
him. I only had a few seconds look at the man. He never said a word. I
never heard him talk.
Mr. JENNER. The customer never said a word?
Mr. PIZZO. The customer never said a word--whether it would be him or
not--but to me, it looked like it was, only from the pictures.
Mr. JENNER. I will exhibit to you Commission Exhibits 451 and 453
through 456 and ask you to examine them.
Does the man depicted there bear a resemblance to what you might
possibly recall as the prospective customer you now have in mind?
Mr. PIZZO. [Examining photographs referred to.] It wouldn't be fair
to say this one, because I think this was in the television or the
newspaper with a fat lip--I remember that.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Pizzo has refused Commission Exhibit 455.
Mr. PIZZO. Possibly these two.
Mr. JENNER. It might possibly be Commission Exhibit 453 or 451?
Mr. PIZZO. And I will refuse these two.
Mr. JENNER. The witness also refused Commission Exhibits Nos. 454 and
456.
Mr. PIZZO. I'm not too positive on these, either.
Mr. JENNER. And he is uncertain even as to Commission Exhibits Nos. 453
and 451.
(An instrument is marked by the reporter as Pizzo Exhibit 453-A, for
identification.)
Mr. JENNER. Showing you that exhibit, do you see any person depicted
on that exhibit that resembles or is the prospective customer that was
brought to your office door by Mr. Bogard on the day you have testified
about?
Mr. PIZZO. One of these two men seems like it. This one--it seems like
it because his nose is too big--one of these two here.
Mr. JENNER. Using this green marker, will you put an "X" on the two men?
Mr. PIZZO. I am not positive.
Mr. JENNER. Of course you are not positive.
Mr. PIZZO. Do you want me to put it right here?
Mr. JENNER. Let's pick out the two that most closely resemble the man
of which you speak.