Mr. GLOVER. Well, cystic fibrosis, they are very active in that,
because of his son.
Mr. JENNER. That is a charity organization?
Mr. GLOVER. A charity organization. And they were very active in this,
because the wife, although it was not her son involved, was very, very
active in that and went from door to door collecting, trying to get
money for this purpose. I don't know of any other organizations. I
remember one time being invited to some kind of charity program over at
the--I don't know how to call it any more, but there is a center for
retarded children over in the Cedar Springs area, which it seems that
a Mexican-American organization was sponsoring, and he invited me to
go to that. I don't know if they were members or not. I think that was
sort of a Mexican-American, I am not sure.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever have the impression they ever belonged to any
political organizations?
Mr. GLOVER. No; I did not have any impression that he belonged to any.
Mr. JENNER. Did they express what their politics were? That is, say, as
between being Republican or Democrat?
Mr. GLOVER. I don't recall anything very strong on that subject.
Mr. JENNER. Did you, during your time here in Dallas, become acquainted
with Marina and Lee Oswald?
Mr. GLOVER. I did.
Mr. JENNER. Would you state when it was that you first became
acquainted with either or both of them.
Mr. GLOVER. I am not able to give a specific time. I met Marina first
at the home of George De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. All right, give me the circumstances and when that occurred
and what led up to it, and what you knew in advance before the meeting
was held, about that? That is, whether this came all of a sudden
without any advance notice, or whether there had been some discussion
with the De Mohrenschildts prior to that time. Just tell me the whole
circumstances leading up to the moment you met Marina.
Mr. GLOVER. I am not able to state a specific time, but of course it
was somewhere, I am not really able to say whether it was sometime in
December, or in January, or sometime in that time, or in the first part.
Mr. JENNER. What year?
Mr. GLOVER. This would be the year 1962-63.
Mr. JENNER. Now would you fix it with respect to when your wife and you
separated. Was that in December of 1962, did you say?
Mr. GLOVER. No, we separated before September 1, 1962. I am not able
to say when she (Marina) came to the De Mohrenschildts. Marina came
to the De Mohrenschildts several times. The first time I met her and
subsequent times, she was also there.
Mr. JENNER. Had there been--has there been any conversation about the
Oswalds with you or in your presence prior to the time that you met
Marina?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I am not sure about this, but I would think, yes;
they had mentioned her.
Mr. JENNER. The De Mohrenschildts had mentioned her?
Mr. GLOVER. Had mentioned her and her husband and their situation, but
I really do not know a hundred percent that they mentioned it before
I came over there. I rather think they mentioned she was coming there
previous to my meeting her.
Mr. JENNER. What did they say about her in advance of the meeting?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, they told about, this is as far as I remember, that
they told about her coming over here with Oswald and, as far as I
remember the impression I got from De Mohrenschildt--it might not have
been entirely from him, it may have come later--Oswald had gone to
Russia to live and had become a citizen. That is the impression I got.
And that he had decided he didn't like Russia and he came back here and
brought his Russian-born wife with him, and were living in Fort Worth,
and they were having trouble getting along, the Oswalds were.
Mr. JENNER. Getting along with each other?
Mr. GLOVER. Getting along with each other.
Mr. JENNER. You remember that distinctly?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I remember that very distinctly, because they were
trying to find a place for Marina to stay.
Mr. JENNER. You learned all this through conversations with the De
Mohrenschildts?
Mr. GLOVER. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Is that correct?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And either or both of them told you that the Oswalds were
not getting along?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And that they were seeking what for them?
Mr. GLOVER. They were seeking a place particularly for Marina to stay.
She had a baby. And seeking a place for her to stay where she could
just get a living, because apparently her husband didn't get along with
her, Lee Oswald didn't get along, and I am not sure whether he had lost
his job or something. It was suggested it was financial difficulties,
the main thing, they didn't get along, and were trying to find a place
for her where she could live.
Mr. JENNER. Did either of the De Mohrenschildts speak Russian?
Mr. GLOVER. So far as I know, both of them spoke Russian.
Mr. JENNER. In your presence?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; spoke Russian, what I assumed to be Russian.
Mr. JENNER. What is your command, if any, of the Russian language?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I know "Da," but I know very little about it. I have
started to study Russian in connection with scientific work, because it
is very valuable to be able to speak Russian, and I have always wanted
to learn to speak Russian, but somehow I never got to do this. It is
very slight, actually, and they both, as far as I know, spoke Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Now tell us what the occasion was, how it came about that
you met Marina on this first occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I am not sure again as to all the details, but I
believe that it was this way. That they told about her and that, I came
over there one night when she was there. I might have been invited to
dinner when she was there, or I might have just come over when she was
there, and they called me during the day and said, "Glover, come over
and meet this woman."
Mr. JENNER. Your recollection is that either George or Jeanne called
you and asked you to come over to their home to meet Marina?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I am quite sure that he invited me to come over there,
because that is usually the way. They were always inviting me to come
over.
Mr. JENNER. And your impression, this was an evening or during the
daytime?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I couldn't be sure, because she would sometimes come
and stay for a day. It might be in the evening or it might have been on
a weekend during the daytime. My impression was, it was in the evening.
Mr. JENNER. But your impression also was that this time that she had
been invited by them on occasions prior to this particular one?
Mr. GLOVER. I am not sure whether they had invited her prior or not.
Mr. JENNER. I'm just asking you what your impression was at that time.
Mr. GLOVER. At that time that I first saw her?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; as to whether she had been there to visit the De
Mohrenschildts.
Mr. GLOVER. My impression was that she probably had, but I really
couldn't be sure about that.
Mr. JENNER. Anything said that evening indicating how she had reached
the De Mohrenschildt's home?
Mr. GLOVER. You mean just physically brought there?
Mr. JENNER. Had they, the De Mohrenschildts gone to pick her up? Had
she gotten there by bus herself? Had she gotten a cab, or how did she
get there?
Mr. GLOVER. I don't remember specifically how she had been brought
there.
Mr. JENNER. That subject was not raised so as to give you the
impression one way or the other, is that correct?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, since she didn't have any means of going herself, I
am sure, whether she came by bus or whether she was brought by them, I
had the impression that she was living in Fort Worth at the time, and
I know she was, because at one time, either this time or another time,
I volunteered, since I had a car, to take her down to the bus station
with the De Mohrenschildts to take her on her way back to Fort Worth,
and the bus wasn't leaving right away, and there was a long wait, so we
took her over to Fort Worth. But I am not sure whether that was this
time or another time.
Mr. JENNER. Had you had the impression then in that connection that
there were occasions when she had come or gone back by way of bus, or
that she was capable of doing so?
Mr. GLOVER. That she was capable, yes.
Mr. JENNER. And she knew enough about bus travel between Fort Worth
and Dallas and the location of the De Mohrenschildt home so that she,
unaccompanied by someone, could travel back and forth?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, at least go to the Fort Worth bus. I'm not sure about
whether they would pick her up or what. That is the impression I got
from the fact we took her to the bus station and she was supposed to
leave by bus.
Mr. JENNER. Who was present? Yourself, Marina, and the two De
Mohrenschildts on this occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. I believe that is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Anybody else that you can recall?
Mr. GLOVER. I do not believe so, but I could not be a hundred percent
sure. I believe that is the way it was.
Mr. JENNER. Have the De Mohrenschildts said anything to you about how
they had become acquainted with the Oswalds?
Mr. GLOVER. They had not said anything specifically, but again, I had
the impression that because they were Russian speaking and knew some
of the other people around the area who were Russian speaking, they
learned from people they knew in Fort Worth of this Russian girl who
was here in this country.
Mr. JENNER. What, if anything, did they say about their interest in her
beyond, let's say, pure curiosity?
Mr. GLOVER. That is really the extent of what they ever said, that
they were curious, and also trying to help her out. This was right in
character with Jeanne, who was always trying to help people out in such
situations.
Mr. JENNER. Was she a generous person in that respect?
Mr. GLOVER. I think you would call it generous although you have to
realize this is a double-edged sword. People sometimes do things in
order to control things and arrange things, and other times they do
things out of the goodness of their heart, and I think it was one of
the facts, she liked to help people out, and arrange things. Maybe this
is my male bias coming into it.
Mr. JENNER. But in any event, they were, on the surface at least,
cordial, and seeking to help her?
Mr. GLOVER. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you detect that that was an active and not merely a
passive effort on their part?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I felt it was an active thing.
Mr. JENNER. They were pursuing it with some vigor?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I would say so.
Mr. JENNER. Let's take George in particular. Was it characteristic of
him? Was he a generous man and wanted to help others?
Mr. GLOVER. Much less so, I would say, than Mrs. De Mohrenschildt. I
rather would attribute it to her. Maybe it is my male bias coming out,
blaming it on Jeanne for being so interested in somebody else, but he
went along with this too, and there were several other people I met
there who they were trying to be good to. I think they were trying
to do this to help. And shortly after my former wife left and I was
by myself, I think they, in their relation to me, were trying to do
something to help me out.
Mr. JENNER. You met her on this occasion. How many additional occasions
were there?
Mr. GLOVER. I can't be sure of the number of occasions, because she
came several times to the De Mohrenschildt house.
Mr. JENNER. Alone?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; she came several times alone, and I would say two or
three times I saw her there.
Mr. JENNER. And each occasion you saw her on these two or three or even
more occasions, she was always alone in the sense that she was not
accompanied on any of those occasions by Lee Oswald?
Mr. GLOVER. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. Is that correct?
Mr. GLOVER. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. What was the length of this visit that you had on the first
occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. I am not really sure of the time, but the impression I had,
it was in the evening, and again I am not sure which one of the times,
but the impression I had, it was in the evening that I was over there,
either to eat, and she left quite early in the evening. Well, we took,
maybe, or she was taken by them, but one time she left around 9 o'clock
or something like this, to get a bus to Fort Worth. Whether this was
the first time, I really can't be sure.
Mr. JENNER. Was it your impression she and her husband were living
together at that time?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; it was my impression. I am not really sure now whether
anything was said to the contrary on that or not. My impression was
that she was living with her husband on this first occasion, yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did any occasion arise when you were advised or had the
impression that she was not then at that period of time living with her
husband?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I think this is subsequent to this first time I met
her. Whatever those occasions were, they had arranged for her to stay
with someone here in the Dallas area.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know the name?
Mr. GLOVER. I do not remember the name of the people, but they had
arranged for her to stay here, and she had stayed for, as I recall, a
fairly short time, that the arrangement did not work out.
Mr. JENNER. Does the name Elena Hall trigger your recollection?
Mr. GLOVER. Elena Hall?
Mr. JENNER. H-a-l-l?
Mr. GLOVER. I don't recall ever having heard that name.
Mr. JENNER. Meller, M-e-l-l-e-r?
Mr. GLOVER. I couldn't be very sure about that. They might have
mentioned a name, but I do not recall. They mentioned the names of
quite a number of people to me, and I am not sure.
Mr. JENNER. What impression did you have of Marina on this first
occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, my first impression was she was sort of an innocent
person caught up in the situation. Although I have very little to
go on, and I could not communicate with her, only through the De
Mohrenschildts.
Mr. JENNER. Did she speak any English on that occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. She spoke practically none. No English. She understood a
little bit that people said in English.
Mr. JENNER. But she did not speak it?
Mr. GLOVER. She couldn't speak English. It was very difficult for me to
get any real good impression from her.
Mr. JENNER. And she was quite young?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; she was quite young.
Mr. JENNER. Let's say this is February of 1963, did you say that was,
or March?
Mr. GLOVER. This was sometime in the first part of the year.
Mr. JENNER. Of 1963?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; it was probably in January. That would be my best
recollection. It was during that time. It might have been later than
that. I am hazy. The only thing I have to go by is, I learned later
after discussion of the visit of Oswald and his wife to our house, I
learned pretty much from the conversation that that meeting took place
in the latter part of February.
Now I did not recall, I just talked with the other people who lived
in the house, and we figured it must have been about that time. And
other people present recalled this, so this is how I figured the whole
business. And I know I met Marina previous to that time.
I know I was away for a week in February when I went on a business trip
to Pennsylvania, and so I assume it was somewhere in January, but I
really do not remember.
Again, if I had to recall those events, I might be able to. I can
remember some of the events, but I am not very sure about it.
Mr. JENNER. When next did you meet Marina after this occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, again, I am not sure at all about those occasions.
She would come and stay at the house, and if I came in from playing
tennis with George, she might have been there. This may have happened
two or three times.
Mr. JENNER. There came an occasion, did there not, in which you met Lee
Oswald?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; when I met Lee Oswald the first time, was at their
house.
Mr. JENNER. Did Marina accompany the De Mohrenschildts on that occasion?
Mr. GLOVER. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. When was that and how did that arise, and what was the
circumstance?
Mr. GLOVER. The only thing I can remember about this, is again to fix
this with respect to the other meeting when he and his wife, Oswald and
his wife, came to my house, and that was apparently in late February,
so it must have been previous to that.
Mr. JENNER. Does the date February 22, 1963, refresh your recollection
as to the occasion they came to your home?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I think I remember in the conversation with the FBI
they mentioned a date about Washington's Birthday.
Mr. JENNER. It is not Lincoln's?
Mr. GLOVER. I think it was Washington's Birthday, but I don't remember
dates, so I had no actual recollection of the specific date.