Mr. JENNER. What did he say in that respect which gave you that
impression?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, I remember that at the time of Castro and Cuba, when
the incident occurred of removing the Russian missiles----
Mr. JENNER. Missile sites?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; he was very much upset about this, and he was very
angry at Kennedy for doing what he did.
Mr. JENNER. What did he say, as best you can give us in substance? I
know you can't remember the words, but in substance, what he said.
Mr. GLOVER. Well, the substance of what he said, he didn't like what
Kennedy was doing at all. And the reason he gave, as far as I can
remember, was the possible involvement in a nuclear war.
Mr. JENNER. You seek to imply that De Mohrenschildt was opposed to what
Kennedy was doing, not because of dislike for Castro, but rather that
he feared we would be, those actions might involve us in a nuclear war?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, in this particular point, yes. He also remarked,
which shows that he had sympathy with Castro--it is not possible for me
to separate those exactly, but in this particular thing, I remember one
time being very, very excited about the missile business in Cuba, and
this business came up that that would lead us into a nuclear war. In
other words, he was suggesting that he was sympathetic with Castro, at
least I thought so--well, Castro is all right, he can't do any harm, he
is just a little guy, and this is the general impression I got. Again,
those may not be the exact expressions that he may have used.
Mr. JENNER. Would you give me an example that he was sympathetic with
what Castro represented?
Mr. GLOVER. He certainly never, in my acquaintance with him, tried to
make out a case for the Communist system against our system. It was
just sort of his shouting off about this thing I just described. And
also I remember one very distinctly, which I told the FBI. One time
there was a cartoon in the newspaper which pictured Khrushchev with the
face of a pig, a caricature, and George was very, very indignant about
them doing that. And I said to George, well, he does look like a pig.
And after all, the caricature has been around since the days of the
famous Frenchman----
Mr. JENNER. Lautrec?
Mr. GLOVER. No; it isn't Lautrec. It's Daumier. I don't know, but that
is what I was thinking, and he does look like one. And so he showed on
this point that he resented something very much about this.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever get into any political discussions with De
Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. There is not very much I remember, because as I say, there
was never any real discussion about such issues, that amounted to
anything, but there were occasions when he seemed to agree to what I
consider a reasonable view.
For instance, things in Russia at the present time. I recall one
instance once before that there was a discussion--whether it came from
a remark of a public figure in the press or somebody else who may have
been present, but there was a discussion about the fact that under the
Khrushchev regime things had loosened up somewhat in Russia. Whoever
was responsible for it, I think it was a public figure at the time who
was talking, said that it was very true, things had loosened up in
Russia, but how does the Russian feel about this. The answer was that
the Russians didn't feel that it is necessarily going to stay that way
very long. I remember talking about this in the presence of George and
he seemed to be quite agreeable on this idea.
Mr. JENNER. When is the last time you saw De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. I saw him sometime in the early part of May, I believe. I
moved into my house at 5723 Southwestern about the 20th of April, and I
had taken all his furniture which he had, looking for a place to store,
and we three fellows were needing furniture, because I sent all my
furniture to my former wife, all the good furniture, so he was going to
let us use the furniture for as long as we wanted, to save him storage
fees and help us out. We moved it over, and then he finally, on leaving
to go to Haiti, before he was going, he dropped by the house sometime
in the day he departed, I think it was in the last few days of May,
first week or two----
Mr. JENNER. 1963?
Mr. GLOVER. 1963, right. He came by the house looking for something
which had been stored in some of the boxes, and they were loaded with
their trailer and cargo to load on the boat in Florida where they going
to take off from. They were sending goods by boat and flying themselves.
Mr. JENNER. That's the last time you have seen him?
Mr. GLOVER. That is the last time I have seen him.
Mr. JENNER. Have you heard from him at any time?
Mr. GLOVER. Have I heard from him?
Mr. JENNER. What has been the extent of that contact, first?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, he wrote to me and his wife wrote to me telling about
how things were going in Haiti, and I have replied very little to him.
I have replied, I don't know how many times, maybe once when they first
went down there, and I replied after January 1, when I moved. I shipped
most of his furniture to a storage, keeping some back that I can still
use in the new house, and I wrote to him telling him, I told him I
didn't need the furniture, and I haven't corresponded with him very
much.
Mr. JENNER. In that correspondence he--has he given you any information
as to what they are doing in Haiti? Did you have any information before
they left for Haiti as to what they were, or thought they were, going
to do?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes. I have the information from talking very much about
his Haiti venture, and the impression I got was somewhat hazy, but the
first part was that he was going to be doing a geological survey for
chemicals and minerals.
Mr. JENNER. For what?
Mr. GLOVER. Minerals of economic value.
Mr. JENNER. Did he indicate the group or company for which he was to do
this work, or was it independent?
Mr. GLOVER. I had the impression that he was the one who was running
the show himself, but he was associated with some other businessman
that was connected with it, that besides this initial venture of doing
this chemical survey, they were also going to do other things and set
up business ventures. That is what the other part involved, and I had
the impression that this all tied together.
Mr. JENNER. This was in the nature, as near as you can recall, of a
joint venture of some kind?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; except he gave me the impression that he was really
running the show, and I also had the impression, which he didn't
emphasize, but that someone else was providing the money if there was
any money needed.
Mr. JENNER. Give us your knowledge and also your impression of the De
Mohrenschildt's financial status when they resided here in Dallas?
Mr. GLOVER. I had the impression that they didn't have very much money,
because he had been away, and the time he came back, the oil consulting
business had gone down pretty much. This was about the time when the
companies were reorganizing and they were tightening their belts,
and it just wasn't such good times, and he apparently had trouble in
getting any oil consultant jobs. This was the impression I got from him
and he didn't do very much, except I got the impression that he might
have owned some leases, and he----
Mr. JENNER. Oil leases?
Mr. GLOVER. Oil leases. And he talked about one particular one where
there was litigation about it. And I got the impression that he didn't
have very much money, except possibly some money coming in from the
oil leases and they didn't have lots of food. They didn't have anything
but very simple food, simple clothes. They hadn't bought anything new.
They had clothes from time before, which were quite expensive, but they
did, however, have a nice car. But they didn't spend a lot of money and
didn't seem to have a lot.
Mr. JENNER. Would you say they attempted to live frugally?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; I would say they attempted to live frugally.
Mr. JENNER. Speaking there about attire, in this connection, as
evidence of their financial status or condition, do you recall
mentioning to the FBI their tennis clothing and from time to time
other clothing was quite informal, even to the extent of not being
appropriate?
Mr. GLOVER. Well, Mrs. De Mohrenschildt used to wear a bathing suit all
the time when she was playing tennis, one piece bathing suit, in which
the lower half was sort of Bikini like. And George just wore a pair
of shorts. That is accepted attire for a man tennis player. We used
to go to the Dallas Athletic Country Club east of the city to play,
sometimes, because Sam Ballen had a membership, and she was told it is
against the rules to appear on the courts with a bathing suit.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me about Sam Ballen. Who is he?
Mr. GLOVER. Sam Ballen, I met him in the way I told you, and he told
me that he had been in the stock market business in New York, and came
here to organize a company which deals in cataloging, and has a library
for oil well logs. These are the records of the physical measurements
made in the oil well, and apparently was very successful in doing this.
I have known him for the past 2 years--I met him actually when I told
you; at Lauriston Marshall's house sometime in 1962, I guess.
Mr. JENNER. Is Ballen a friend of Mr. De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. GLOVER. Ballen is a friend of the De Mohrenschildts.
Mr. JENNER. Was it your impression that they were closely acquainted?
Mr. GLOVER. Fairly well, yes; closely acquainted.
Mr. JENNER. Did you play tennis together with Mr. Ballen and the De
Mohrenschildts on more than one occasion? Did you continue to have this
acquaintanceship subsequent to that first occasion about which you have
testified?
Mr. GLOVER. Very much so; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Were there occasions thereafter--social events, parties,
visits in the home, and what not, that Sam Ballen participated?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; there were occasions, although the main association
was that we played tennis together. We made a very good team. We have
about the same degree of skill at it; yes.
Mr. JENNER. Does he reside here in Dallas?
Mr. GLOVER. Yes; he does.
Mr. JENNER. He still stays--lives here?
Mr. GLOVER. As far as I know.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know of a company with which he is associated?
Mr. GLOVER. I do not know the name offhand.
Mr. JENNER. And that his name is spelled B-a-l-l-e-n, and his first
name is Samuel?
Mr. GLOVER. I just call him Sam. I don't know whether his name is
Samuel or not.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know anything about the De Mohrenschildts' views
toward religion?
Mr. GLOVER. They are very much against religion, I am quite sure. They
don't think very much of organized religion at all.
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any information more definite than that? Are
they atheistic, are they just--don't have any feeling one way or the
other?
Mr. GLOVER. Be hard for me to say. I would think probably that
atheistic would be more the correct term, but I don't recall specific
remarks that they made.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have any impression, and do you now, as to any
political affiliation of the De Mohrenschildts together or separate?
Mr. GLOVER. Any kind of affiliation?
Mr. JENNER. Political or otherwise.
Mr. GLOVER. Political or otherwise. Well, business, he belongs to the
Petroleum Club. He talks about being down there. And I don't know of
any other organizations.