WEAVING
NEAR the tents of some nomadic tribes may occasionally be seen crude
looms on which are woven some of the most interesting rugs that now
reach the Western markets. In all probability they are not dissimilar to
what were used thousands of years ago, for it would be impossible to
construct a simpler loom. Where two trees suitably branching are found
growing a few feet apart, all of the upper branches are removed
excepting two, which are so trimmed as to leave a crotch at the same
height in each tree. In each crotch is rested the end of a pole or beam,
and parallel to it is placed another extending at a short distance above
the ground from trunk to trunk. Or, as is more frequently the case,
roughly hewn posts are firmly implanted in the ground and horizontal
beams are stretched between them. In the upper one is a groove with a
rod to which one end of the warp, consisting of strong threads of yarn
numbering from ten to thirty to the inch, is attached, while the other
end is tightly stretched and firmly secured to the lower horizontal
beam. Sometimes the beams to which the warp is attached are placed
perpendicularly, so that the weaver may stand and move sideways as the
work progresses. But among a very large number of those tribes that are
constantly wandering in search of new pastures for their flocks and
herds, it is customary to let the loom lie flat on the ground, while the
weaver sits on the finished part of the rug.
[Illustration: PLATE A.—AN UPRIGHT LOOM]
Under more favourable circumstances, when the tribes live in villages or
cities, the looms are so made that the weavers are not compelled to bend
in order to tie the first row of knots or stand erect to finish the last
rows of a long rug. Of the several devices by which the weaver may
remain seated while at work, the crudest consists of a plank used as a
seat, which rests on the rungs of two ladders placed parallel to each
other at the sides of the rug. As the work progresses, the plank is
raised and rested upon the higher rungs. More frequently, however, both
upper and lower beams of the frame have the shape of cylinders of small
diameter, which revolve between the upright posts. The lower ends of the
threads of warp are attached to the lower beam, and the other ends may
either be wound several times around the upper one or else pass over it
and be kept taut by weights attached to them. Such a loom is generally
used for weaving very large rugs, which are rolled up on the lower beam
as the work progresses.
In Plate A (Page 45) is represented a loom commonly used in many parts
of the Orient. When preparing it for weaving two stakes are driven in
the ground at a suitable distance apart, and about them the warp is
wound in the way a figure eight is formed. The warp is then carefully
transferred to two rods that are attached to the upper and lower beams.
If it has been carefully wound, none of the threads should be slack; but
if desired the tension may be further increased by different devices.
Two other rods, known as “Healds,” are then attached to the front and
back threads of warp; or in the case of a single rod, it is attached to
the back threads, as shown in the Plate. A lease rod is next inserted
between the threads of warp that cross below the upper beam, and another
is placed below it where, if necessary, it is supported in position by
loops. When the weaving begins, a short web is generally woven at the
lower end to protect the knots from wear. After the first row has been
tied, the shuttle carrying the thread of weft is passed between the
front and back threads of warp; the heald rod attached to these back
threads is then pulled forward, so that they are now in front of the
others, and the shuttle is passed back. If the rug is narrow, only one
shuttle is used; but if the rug is wide, or if the weft consists of two
threads of unequal thickness, a shuttle is passed across from each side.
Every thread of warp is in this way completely encircled by the thread
of weft as it passes and repasses. When weaving large rugs, there is an
advantage in having two heald rods, as by their use the distance between
the front and back threads of warp may be increased. The object of the
lease rod is to prevent any slack caused by drawing forward the threads
of warp, and is accomplished in a very simple manner, as will be seen by
studying the drawing; since when the tension of the back threads is
increased by drawing them forward, the tension of the front threads is
also increased by displacing the lease rods which thereby stretches
them.
[Illustration: PLATE 7. FERAGHAN RUG]
The products of the loom are divided according to their weave into
three separate classes. The simplest of these are the kilims, which are
without pile and consist only of warp and weft to which a few
embroidered stitches representing some symbol are occasionally added.
A more elaborately made class are the Soumaks. They consist of warp
covered by flat stitches of yarn and of a thread of weft which extends
across and back between each row of stitches in the old rugs and between
each second and third row of stitches in the new rugs. In the narrow,
perpendicular lines that define both borders and designs the stitch is
made by the yarn encircling two adjacent threads of warp; but in other
parts of the rug it is made by the yarn passing across two adjacent
threads of warp at the front, and after encircling them at the back,
recrossing them again at the front. It is then continued across the next
pair of adjacent threads of warp. The result is that at the back of
these rugs each of the two threads of warp encircled by the yarn appears
as a separate cord, while at the front the yarn passes diagonally across
four threads of warp. As this diagonal movement is reversed in each
succeeding row, the surface has an uneven appearance sometimes termed
“herring bone” weave.
By far the largest class of rugs are those with a pile. When making
them, the weaver begins at the bottom and ties to each pair of adjacent
threads of warp a knot of yarn so as to form a horizontal row. A thread
of weft is then passed, as often as desired, between the threads of warp
and pressed more or less firmly with a metal or wooden comb upon the
knots, when they are trimmed with a knife to the desired length. Another
horizontal row of knots is tied to the threads of warp; again the yarn
of weft is inserted; and so the process continues until the pile is
completed. In tying the knots, work almost invariably proceeds from left
to right and from the bottom to the top. It is but rarely that the warp
is stretched horizontally and that the knots are tied in rows parallel
to the sides. It is still more infrequently that a rug is found in which
the knots are tied by working from the centre to the right and left, and
to the top and bottom. These interesting exceptions may easily be
discovered by rubbing the hand over the pile, when it will be noticed
that the knots lie on one another so as to face the same direction,
which is the opposite to that in which the work of tying advanced, or as
is generally the case, from top to bottom.
The compactness, durability, and value of a rug depend somewhat on the
number of knots in any particular area. Yet if the yarn is coarse, the
rug may be compact even though the number of knots be small; and if the
yarn is fine, the rug may be loosely woven, either because the rows of
knots have not been firmly pressed down, or because there are several
“filling threads” of weft, and still the number of knots be large. A
square inch is a convenient size for measurement; but since all parts of
a rug are not woven with equal compactness, the measurement should be
made in several places if exactness be required. In loosely woven
pieces, such as the Oushaks and some of the Genghas, there may be less
than twenty knots to the square inch; but among the more closely woven,
as the Kirmans and Bokharas, are frequently several hundred.
These knots are of two classes, the Ghiordes and the Sehna. The Ghiordes
are found in all rugs of Asia Minor and Caucasia, in some of the rugs of
India, and in most of the rugs of Persia. They are named after the town
of Ghiordes in Asia Minor, where some of the finest Asiatic pieces were
made, and which tradition states was once the ancient Gordion, noted
even in the days of Alexander. In tying the knot, the two ends of yarn
appear together at the surface included between two[6] adjacent threads
of warp around which they have been passed, so that the tighter the yarn
is drawn the more compact the knot becomes. The three different ways of
tying this knot are shown in Plate B, Figs. 1, 2, and 3 (Page 49), of
which the second is known as a “right hand” and the third as a “left
hand” knot. The Sehna knots, which are used in the Turkoman, Chinese,
many of the Persian, and in some of the Indian rugs, take their name
from the city of Sehna in Persia. In tying them, a piece of yarn
encircles a thread of warp and is twisted so that its ends appear at the
surface, one at each side of the adjacent thread of warp, as is shown in
Plate B, Figs. 4, 5, and 6. According as this thread of warp is to the
right or the left of the one they encircle, the knots are known as
“right-hand” or “left-hand” knots,[7] but in the appearance of the
carpet there is no distinction. If the pile of a rug is carefully
parted, the two ends of yarn forming a Sehna knot can be separated; but
with the Ghiordes knot this is impossible, as will be understood by
studying Plate B, in which Figs. 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, and 9 are Ghiordes
knots, and Figs. 4, 5, 6, and 10 are Sehna knots. As a rule, the Sehna
knots, which permit of closer weaving and clearer definition of pattern,
appear in rugs of shorter nap.
[Illustration: PLATE B.—Nos. 1, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, Ghiordes knots. Nos. 4,
5, 6, 10, Sehna knots. No. 11, Weft-overcasting. No. 12,
Double-overcasting. No. 13, Weft-selvage. No. 14, Double-selvage. Nos.
15, 16, 17, illustrate one, two, and three threads of weft passing
between two rows of knots.]
The nice distinctions in the technique of weaving are rarely understood
even by those who are familiar with Oriental rugs. The general pattern,
which next to colour is the characteristic that most quickly arrests the
attention, is often the sole guide by which novices guess the class. The
more experienced will observe if the knot be Ghiordes or Sehna, and
examine the finish at the sides and ends; but few give the peculiarities
of the weave the consideration they deserve. This, perhaps, is because
only those who have made a special study would believe the constancy
with which members of a tribe or locality have followed the same method
of tying the knot and inserting the weft. The different methods of
treatment by separate tribes are sometimes only slight, but they afford
a most important clue for determining the place of origin of doubtful
classes. In fact, nearly every class has a typical weave differentiating
it from all other classes. To be sure, there are exceptions to the
established type which are inevitable; since, for instance, a man from
the Feraghan district might marry a woman from the adjoining Hamadan
district, who, to please her husband, might weave a rug with pattern
common to his district but follow the style of weaving that she has been
familiar with from childhood. Nevertheless, weavers of a particular
district adhere more closely to a typical style of weaving than they do
to any other characteristic of a rug. Nor is this surprising, since
weaving is learned in earliest childhood; and as it contains no elements
calculated to stimulate the imagination, it is mechanically followed
with stereotyped precision. An innovation in pattern, by copying some
strange designs that strike the fancy, is far more likely. These
distinctions in weaving may be conveniently divided into those that
affect the knot, the warp, and the weft.[8]
THE KNOT.—Not only may a knot be tied as a Ghiordes or a Sehna knot, but
it may have other distinguishing peculiarities; as, for instance, it may
be of fine or coarse wool. This is most conveniently observed at the
back, where it will be seen that the knots of rugs such as the Bokhara,
Kirman, Joshaghan, and Bergamo are tied with fine yarn; while the knots
of other rugs, as the Samarkand, Bijar, Gorevan, Kurdistan, Yuruk, and
Kazak are tied with coarse yarn. Whether the yarn be fine, medium, or
coarse, all specimens of any class will show a remarkable conformity.
Also in some rugs the knots are drawn very tight against the warp, while
in others the yarn encircles the warp loosely. Any one who has examined
the back of many Sarouks, Kashans, Kirmans, or Daghestans, and rubbed
the finger-nail against them, could not possibly mistake them for a
Shiraz, Kulah, Yuruk, or Karabagh, which are less tightly woven. Again,
as a result of using yarn in which the double thread that forms two or
more ply has been very loosely or very tightly twisted together, there
is some difference in the direction or slant of the strands forming the
yarn, where it shows at the back, though this feature is not pronounced.
For example, in most Afghans, Yuruks, Bijars, and others the strands of
yarn where it crosses the warp in forming the knot lie for the most part
in a direction parallel to the weft; while in other rugs, as Mosuls,
Kurdistans, and Kazaks, the strands of yarn slant irregularly.
Furthermore, in some rugs, as the Melez and Yuruks, as a result of the
threads of yarn being strung rather far apart, each half of a knot
encircling a thread of warp stands out at the back distinctly from the
other with clear cut edges; while in many rugs, as the Shiraz or Sehna,
each half is very closely pressed together. Also in some rugs, as
Sarabends and Afshars, each of these half knots where they show at the
back have the same length, measured in a direction parallel to the warp,
as width, measured in a direction parallel to the weft; while in such
rugs as the Kazaks, since the yarn generally consists of several ply,
the length exceeds the width; and in a few rugs the length is less than
the width.
THE WARP.—The appearance of the back of a rug is partly due to the
relative positions of the two threads of warp encircled by a knot. If,
for instance, in any Kazak a pin be thrust through the nap wherever a
single perpendicular line of one colour appears at the surface, it will
be seen that each of the two threads of warp encircled by a single knot
lie side by side with equal prominence. This is shown in Plate B, Figs.
7 and 7-a (Page 49), in which the former represents a section of a rug
cut transversely to the threads of warp, and the latter the appearance
of the rug at the back. The same will be found true of Beluchistans,
Feraghans, Yuruks, and many others. If, however, a Kulah,
Persian-Kurdish, or Karabagh be similarly examined, it will be seen that
one thread of warp to each knot is depressed, so that the back has a
slightly corrugated appearance (as in Plate B, Figs. 8 and 8-a). And in
the case of a Bijar or Sarouk it will be seen that one thread of warp,
included in every knot, has been doubled under so as to be entirely
concealed from view; with the result that the foundation of warp has a
double thickness, which makes the rug much stronger, as in Plate B, Fig.
9, representing a Ghiordes knot, and Fig. 10 representing a Sehna knot.
To be sure, it occasionally happens that in rugs of a particular class
some may have each thread of warp included in a knot equally prominent
and others may have one slightly depressed; or that in rugs of another
class some may have one thread of warp depressed and others may have it
entirely concealed; but as a rule these tribal features show a
remarkable constancy. These relative positions of the two threads of
warp encircled by a knot are partly due to the degree of closeness with
which the threads of warp are strung, also partly to the method of
inserting the threads of weft or “filling” between the rows of knots;
but more than all else they are due to the way one end of the knots is
pulled when they are tied.
THE WEFT.—In the character and arrangement of weft are technical
differences that are more serviceable than any other feature for
distinguishing between the rugs of different tribes and districts. So
subtle are some of them that they can be learned only by long and
painstaking study, and are appreciated by few except native weavers.
Nevertheless, to any one who will carefully examine almost any
well-known classes, it will be apparent that these differences in the
weave are real, and that they are sufficiently constant to differentiate
one class from another. The fine brown weft of the Bokhara, or equally
fine bluish weft of a Sarouk that is almost concealed between firmly
tied knots; the fine thread of cotton weft passing but once between two
rows of knots and covered only by the transverse warp of the Sehna; the
coarse thread of cotton weft similarly passing but once between two rows
of knots in the Hamadan; the coarse thread of cotton weft that once
crossing and recrossing appears irregularly between appressed rows of
knots in Kermanshahs; the bead-like appearance of the threads of weft
that, as a rule, pass many times between two rows of knots in Genghas;
the crudely spun weft of coarse diameter crossing and recrossing once
between the rows of knots in modern Mosuls; the very fine reddish brown
weft that entirely conceals from view the warp in old Bergamos, —are
features peculiar to these separate classes with which every rug
expert is familiar. The weft of many other classes is equally
distinctive, though there are exceptions to the types. It should be
remembered, however, that the weave of many rugs woven over a hundred
and fifty years ago is different from the weave of rugs woven only fifty
years ago; and that many modern pieces cheaply made for commercial
purposes are more crudely woven than were the same classes thirty years
ago.
[Illustration: PLATE 8. HAMADAN RUG]
These distinctions in the weft relate to the material of which it is
made, its colour, the size of the diameter, the way in which it is spun,
to its loose or compressed condition between separate rows of knots, as
well as to the number of times it crosses the warp between them, and to
whether it is inserted with much or little slack. Most rugs are woven
with woollen weft of a natural colour, but occasionally it has a reddish
brown, a blue, or a yellow tint. When cotton, jute, or hemp are used,
they are almost invariably of natural colour; only in a very few pieces,
as some of the Kulahs, are both wool and jute ever used in the same
piece. The weft of some classes, as Bokharas, Sarouks, and Bergamos, is
of a very small diameter, and of others, as the Hamadans and Kurdistans,
it is of relatively large diameter. In some classes, as the Karajes and
Genghas, the weft is tightly spun like twine; while in the Beluchistans,
Mosuls, and Kurdistans it is loosely spun, so that the projecting fibres
of wool give a rough appearance to its surface.
Also the weavers of some districts invariably compress very firmly the
yarn of weft between every two rows of knots, while other weavers
compress it only to a slight degree; as, for instance, in the Afghan,
Tabriz, and Kirman the rows of knots are pressed down so firmly that the
weft is almost concealed at the back and the transverse threads of warp
are entirely covered; whilst, on the other hand, in the Karabagh or
Kazak between every two rows of knots the weft and part of the
transverse threads of warp are exposed to view. According as the rows of
knots are pressed down upon the threads of weft or not, one of the two
halves of each separate knot, as shown at the back, may extend slightly
or very much beyond the other in the direction of the length of the rug,
or each of them may lie in a straight line at right angles to the warp.
Comparing Kazak, Kutais, and Tiflis rugs, for example, it will be
noticed that as a rule the line thus formed in Tiflis rugs is nearly an
even, clear cut line at right angles to the warp, that in the Kutais
part of one knot extends beyond the other, while in Kazaks this
unevenness is even more conspicuous. Or again, if typical Shirvans,
Kabistans, and Daghestans be compared, it will be noticed that in
Shirvans the half-knots, or parts of the knot encircling the two
adjacent threads of warp, are often inclined at an angle of at least
thirty degrees to the line of weft so as to present a serrated
appearance, but that the alignment formed by knots of Daghestans is
nearly even, and that of Kabistans is intermediate. To be sure, there
are exceptions to this rule, but these features are remarkably constant.
The number of times that a thread of weft is inserted between two rows
of knots varies with the practice of different localities, but is almost
constant in each locality. Weavers of Sehna rugs insert only a single
thread of weft between every two rows of knots, which winds in front of
and behind alternate threads of warp, with the result that the back of
these rugs have a checkered or quincunx appearance, caused by minute
portions of exposed warp and weft crossing each other at right angles.
In Hamadans a much heavier thread of weft passes only once before and
behind alternate threads of warp, so that the appearance of the weave is
very similar to that of Sehnas.[9] In almost all other rugs the weft
crosses twice, that is, across and back once, between every two rows of
knots so as to completely encircle each thread of warp. The weave of a
few rugs, as some Anatolians, shows the weft crossing three times, that
is, twice in one direction and once in the opposite direction. In the
Genghas, Tcherkess, Bergamos, and in many rugs over one hundred and
fifty years old, the threads of weft frequently cross many times; and it
is not unusual for the number to vary in different parts of the same
rug. In Plate B, Figs. 15, 16, and 17 (Page 49), is illustrated the
appearance of the back of rugs in which a thread of weft crosses once,
twice, and three times between two adjacent rows of knots. There are
likewise rugs in which the number varies with methodical regularity; for
instance, in Khorassans it is usual to find an extra thread of weft
inserted at intervals of every few rows of knots; in many Herats the
threads of weft cross twice between several successive rows of knots,
then three times between the following several rows, and so continue to
alternate; and in some of the Kulahs a thread of woollen weft that
crosses twice alternates with a single coarser thread of jute.
As the shuttle passes back and forth, the thread of weft may be allowed
considerable slack, so that when it is pressed down by the comb it will
fit about the sides of the warp; or it may be drawn tightly across, so
that it has a tendency to displace the threads of warp. If, for
instance, a Hamadan and one of the Feraghans which, unlike the majority
of them, has only one thread of weft crossing between the rows of knots,
be examined, it will be seen that in the Hamadan the weft crosses with
hardly any slack, so that the warp stands out clearly and well defined
at the back; but that in the Feraghan the weft crosses with much slack,
so that it folds about the warp, which accordingly seems slightly
imbedded in it at the back. In some rugs the weft is passed across once
with very slight slack, and as it recrosses it is allowed much slack.
These features of the weave, which are followed with remarkable
constancy in the same class, can be observed to advantage in a fragment
of a rug cut transversely to the direction of the warp. If, for
instance, the weft which crosses and recrosses between the rows of knots
be carefully removed so as not to disturb its mould, it will be noticed
in the case of many rugs that each thread of yarn has a similar shape of
moderately deep undulations, which show how it conformed to the warp and
indicate how slack it was when inserted. In the case of a few rugs, as
the Luristans, each thread will likewise have similar undulations, but
they will be very prominent. If, on the other hand, the weft be removed
from some classes, as the Tabriz, Sarouk, and Kashan, one of the two
threads will be almost straight or have slight undulations, while the
other thread will have deep undulations. The weft of the Herez, Herats,
old Khorassans, and Koniehs have the same peculiarities, excepting that
the thread with very slight undulations is of three or four ply, while
the other is of a single ply.
The only instruments employed in weaving are the knife, comb, and
scissors. The first is used, after each row of knots has been tied, to
cut the ends of yarn to nearly the proper length; the second, to press
firmly each row of knots; and the last, to trim the nap with care, so
that the finished product may present an even and compact appearance.
FINISH OF SIDES.—As the sides are constantly exposed to wear weavers of
different districts strengthen them in different ways, which may be
designated as Weft Overcasting, Double Overcasting, Weft Selvage, Double
Selvage, and Added Selvage. Each of these terms, though not euphonious,
suggests the method employed. In Weft Overcasting (Plate B, Fig. 11,
Page 49) the thread of weft, after encircling the threads of warp to
which the knots are tied, is wound about a much heavier cord that is
strung at the side of the rug for a space equal to the thickness of the
knots. It then partly encircles the threads of warp between the next two
rows of knots as it passes to the other side, when it is wound about the
heavy cord there. As this process continues, the cords at the sides are
completely overcast with the thread of weft. When the sides have a
Double Overcasting (Plate B, Fig. 12), heavy yarn is wound about the
cord that has previously been encircled by the weft. Frequently several
threads of yarn take the place of a single heavy cord. Weft Selvage
(Plate B, Fig. 13) is made by placing two or more heavy cords instead of
a single one at the side of the warp, and encircling them by the weft in
figure-eight fashion. As they extend beyond the rows of knots they form
a plain flat selvage. The Double Selvage (Plate B, Fig. 14) is used
among nomadic tribes such as the Beluches and Afghans, whose rugs
receive an unusual amount of hard wear, so that an extra selvage is
necessary. In adding this extra selvage the threads of weft are carried
about the heavy cords, as in weft selvage, and then the extra yarn is
wound over it in figure-eight fashion so as again to encircle the heavy
cords. In Added Selvage the heavy cords are not encircled by the weft,
but are attached to the side of the rug by the extra yarn that winds
about them figure-eight fashion, and also encircles two or more
adjoining threads of warp. Sometimes also the selvage is “Mixed,” or
made by the weft encircling only one or two of the heavy cords, and then
an extra yarn is wound about these and the remaining cord or cords.
Moreover, the Double Overcasting and Double Selvage may be “attached”
more firmly to the sides of the rug by the yarn passing in figure-eight
fashion about the adjacent thread or threads of warp between the two
rows of knots. When a Double Overcasting is thus “attached,” it is
somewhat similar to a two-cord Double Selvage.
These are the principal methods of finishing the sides, though they are
sometimes modified by tribal customs. Simple as they seem, skill is
required in both overcasting and making the selvage; for if carelessly
done the sides are frequently made to curl. This is occasionally found
to be the defect of old rugs, the worn sides of which have been recently
overcast by inexperienced weavers. When such is the case, removing the
stitches and overcasting with more care will remove the defect.
[Illustration: PLATE 9. SAROUK RUG]
FINISH OF ENDS.—The ends, which receive more attention than the sides,
are treated in several different ways; and in many rugs a distinction
exists between the treatment of each end. The simplest finish is where
the warp and weft are woven like the threads of a kilim, and extend
beyond the pile as a web, which may be exceedingly short, or, as in
Beluches and Afghans, several inches long. Frequently the ends are
finished by a selvage formed by cords heavier than the weft braided into
the warp; or the upper end may be doubled back and hemmed. It is not
unusual to find both web and selvage; but though the finish be web,
selvage, or web and selvage, the warp of the end finished last generally
forms a fringe, and often each end will have a fringe. Sometimes each
separate thread of warp hangs loose; sometimes a number a foot or more
in length are twisted together in cords; and again they are knotted or
are tied to one another diagonally so as to form a network from which
hang the loose ends. Very frequently the loops formed by the warp that
encircled the rod extend beyond the web at the lower end of the rug, or
else are braided about the ultimate thread of weft in the web. Though
the warp and weft are generally undyed in the body of the rug, the web
of the ends is very frequently coloured. Some of the webs, particularly
those of the Beluches, are embroidered; and through others, as the
Kurdistans, a parti-coloured cord runs transversely; still others, as
Bergamos, are adorned with shells, beads, or other articles to avert the
evil eye.
In the study of rugs it should be remembered that the effect of rough
usage is so considerable that in old pieces the webs of the ends have
frequently disappeared, leaving short fringes composed of the ends of
warp from which some rows of knots have been removed, and that recent
overcasting of the sides may take the place of former selvage.
The many characteristics of knot, warp, weft, sides, and ends, with all
the variations made by innumerable tribes, remarkably constant in their
methods, are technical peculiarities that are uninteresting to those who
feel only an aesthetic interest in rugs, yet they demand the most
careful consideration of whoever would learn to differentiate accurately
between the many classes. Though admitting of exceptions, these
peculiarities are real and definite, yet their analyses often require
the subtlest perception of small though exact distinctions, without
which expert understanding would be impossible.