informing you of the necessity of suspending further drafts upon me
for the present.
Three days afterwards, I had a long and satisfactory conversation with
the French Ambassador, in which he was very unreserved, candid, and
confidential. He read to me part of a letter he intended to send to
Count de Vergennes on our affairs, and justice calls upon me to say,
that we are obliged to him for it.
On the 22d of September, I sent the following letter to Count de
Vergennes by one of the Ambassador's couriers.
"St Ildefonso, September 22d, 1780.
"Sir,
"I have never taken up my pen with so much reluctance as I
now do, although my design is to write a letter to your
Excellency. But, Sir, there are few sensations more painful
than those which they experience, who, already covered with
benefits, are impelled by cruel necessity to ask for more.
Such is my present situation, and hence proceeds my regret.
"My uniform and unreserved communications to the Count
Montmorin, who has my fullest confidence, precludes the
necessity and consequently the propriety of a minute detail
of American affairs here.
"Your Excellency will recollect the resolution of Congress
for drawing bills on me, as well as the reasons assigned for
that measure. In my first conference with the Minister on
that subject, he enlarged on the necessities of the State,
but nevertheless told me, he should be able, at the end of
the present or beginning of the next year, to advance thirty
or forty thousand pounds sterling, and that further
arrangements respecting the residue should then be made.
"I afterwards received and answered propositions for the
reimbursement of this money; and from time to time, was
permitted to accept such of the bills as were most pressing.
"Things remained in this state till the 5th of July, when,
after many warm assurances of friendship and good will, the
further discussion of these matters was postponed by the
Minister until the arrival of a person intended to succeed M.
Mirales, the late Spanish agent at Philadelphia, and I was
told that they should then be arranged and adjusted.
"Several weeks elapsed after the time assigned for his
arrival had expired. The holders of the bills became
importunate, and insisting on my accepting or refusing them.
"I wrote several letters to the Minister, requesting his
directions, but was not favored with an answer to any of
them.
"On the 3d instant, after fruitless endeavors to see the
Minister, I received the following note from him by the hands
of M. Gardoqui;
'The Count de Florida Blanca sends his compliments to Mr
Jay, and advises him to become acquainted with the bearer
of this letter, who is the person that has been expected
from day to day.'
"This gentleman made many remarks tending to show the
propriety of America's offering some specific consideration
for this money, and hinted at the navigation of the
Mississippi, ship timber, vessels, tobacco, &c. &c. I
replied, that the only consideration Congress could offer,
was that which all other nations at war, who borrowed money,
offered, viz. to repay the principal with a reasonable
interest after the war; that I should deceive him, were I to
enter into contracts to pay it sooner; that the proposition
of paying it during the war, in ship timber, tobacco, or
other articles, did not lessen the difficulty, for that these
things were worth, and cost money in America, as well as in
Europe; and that as to the Mississippi, it could not come in
question as a consideration for one hundred thousand pounds.
The conversation was concluded, by his desiring me to meet
him at M. Del Campo's the next morning. M. Gardoqui then, and
since, behaved with temper, candor, and politeness.
"The next day we saw M. Del Campo. He was liberal in his
censures on the measure of drawing the bills in question on
Spain. He informed me, that the King must first take care of
his own people before he gave supplies to others; that Spain,
instead of deriving advantage from America, heard of nothing
but demands. That if Congress wanted money, they should have
drawn on France, with whom they were in alliance, and who had
all the profit of their trade; that we ought to have
distinguished between our allies, and those who only wished
us well, and that applications for aid might be proper to
the one, which were not so to the other; that our affairs
were in a ruinous condition, and that it was even said some
of the States were holding secret negotiations for peace with
the enemy, &c. &c. &c. My replies were such as the subject
naturally suggested, and as prudence dictated; there are
seasons when men mean not to be convinced, and when argument
becomes mere matter of form. On such occasions, we have
little more in our power than moderation and temper. I gave
M. Del Campo credit for his frankness, and wish I could with
propriety have extended it to his delicacy.
"A day or two afterwards, viz. the 6th instant, I was
permitted to accept bills to the amount of one thousand one
hundred and ten dollars.
"On the 13th, M. Gardoqui, by order of the Minister, told me,
that the exigencies of the State would not permit the King to
provide for the payment of more of the bills than had been
already accepted, amounting to about fourteen thousand
dollars. This gave occasion to my letter to the Minister of
the 14th, and to his answer of the 15th, which was dictated
by him to M. Del Campo, and by M. Del Campo to M. Gardoqui,
copies of both of which your Excellency will receive from
Count Montmorin. The Minister's answer made a conference
between us expedient. I requested that favor the 15th
instant, and have been informed that the Count de Florida
Blanca will endeavor to see me on Saturday evening next.
"I forbear remarks on this singular conduct. I wish it could
be explained in a manner compatible with the reputation Spain
enjoys in North America. I much fear partial resentments,
which ought not to affect America, have been permitted to
have an undue degree of influence, and that the Minister
forgot in his zeal for a certain scheme of finance, that it
was unjust to wound opponents through the sides of their
friends. But whatever may have been the cause; the effect,
unless removed, will be destructive, and France only can at
present afford the means of doing it.
"When I consider, on the one hand, that France was our first,
and is still our best, and almost only friend; that she
became our ally on terms of equality, neither taking, nor
attempting to take ungenerous advantages of our situation;
that she has clothed and armed our troops, and is at this
moment assisting us with her fleets, her armies, her
treasure, and her blood; gratitude and generosity forbid me
to solicit a further tax on her magnanimity. But, on the
other hand, when I reflect that the loss of American credit
would be a loss to the common cause, and an eventual injury
to France; that such an event would be a matter of triumph to
our common enemy; and of pain to our friends; that the honor
of Congress, suspended on the fate of these bills, now hangs
as it were by a hair, and that our enemies here and elsewhere
are doing all in their power to cut it; when I consider, that
America would feel more sensibly the loss of reputation in
this instance, than the loss of battles in many others; I
say, Sir, when I consider these things, I find it to be my
duty to request your Excellency to interpose the amity of
France, and that his Majesty will be pleased to add this
strong link to the chain of benefits, by which he has already
bound the affections of America to his family and people.
"I ought to inform your Excellency, that bills for about
fifty thousand dollars remain unaccepted. The greater part
of these are in the hands of merchants, who waited my answer
with a degree of patience, I could not have expected; some of
them ever since the month of June last. Further delays,
therefore, were not to be asked or obtained, and I was
reduced to the necessity, either of promising to accept them,
or permit the credit of Congress to perish with them. I could
not long hesitate. I promised to accept them. Fortunately,
these bills have hitherto come on slowly, though, it is
probable, that the assurances of Spain, which I have
communicated to Congress, may quicken their pace. A period,
however, will soon be put to their drawing, as I have written
to them by several conveyances immediately to stop.
"I ought also to inform your Excellency, that a promise made
me in June last of some clothing for our troops has been
renewed, and that his Majesty has been pleased to offer us
his responsibility to facilitate a loan of one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. I shall endeavor to make the most of
this offer, and your Excellency may rest assured, that I
shall gladly embrace every measure, which may be calculated
to lessen the weight with which the American cause presses on
the finances of France.
"I have the honor to be, &c.
JOHN JAY."
I also sent a copy of this letter to Dr Franklin, enclosed in one of
which the following is a copy.
St Ildefonso, Sept. 22d, 1780.
Dear Sir,
"I have lately written to you several letters. Enclosed is a
copy of one to Count de Vergennes, which Count Montmorin, who
also writes to him on the same subject, is so obliging as to
send together with this, by a courier to Bayonne.
"The papers you have heretofore received from me, with those
now sent, will enable you to understand it, and I am
persuaded your abilities and influence will be exerted to
promote the success of the application contained in it. It
appears to me absolutely necessary, that the bills drawn on
me be saved at all events. If contrary to my ideas of the
wisdom and affection of France, she should not lend us money
for the purpose, we must endeavor to borrow it of
individuals, though at a higher than usual interest; nay, on
any terms, rather than not get it. Almost anything will be
better than a protest; for exclusive of the disgrace, which
is intolerable, the consequences of it would cost Congress
more than the expense of saving their credit, be it almost
what it will.
"I am, &c.
JOHN JAY."
The Ambassador informed me, that he had received despatches from
Philadelphia, which gave him and the Court great pleasure, viz.--That
Congress had, at the instance of the Chevalier de la Luzerne and Don
Francisco, agreed to make a diversion to the southward in order to
facilitate the Spanish operations in that quarter; that a noble spirit
was pervading all ranks of people; that we had been successful in
Jersey, &c. &c. and in short, that the Chevalier de la Luzerne was
much pleased with Congress and the general aspect of affairs in
America. I lamented in silence, that I should have no other
intelligence of all this, but from a French Ambassador.
He informed me further, that he believed we should now be able to get
some of the clothing taken from the enemy by Admiral Cordova; that he
had, and would continue to cherish the idea. We had a long
conversation; he gave me much good advice, some useful information,
and many assurances of cordiality and good will.
On the evening of the 23d, I was admitted to the honor of a conference
with his Excellency the Count de Florida Blanca; and M. Gardoqui, who
understands Spanish and English exceedingly well, performed the part
of interpreter.
The following notes of the conference are very exact as to every
particular.
_Notes of a Conference between his Excellency the Count de
Florida Blanca and Mr Jay, at St Ildefonso, on Saturday
Evening, September 23d, 1780_.
After the usual civilities the Count began the conference by
informing Mr Jay, that the Court had received intelligence
from the Havana, of Congress having so far complied with the
request made to them to permit the exportation of provisions
for the use of his Majesty's fleets and armies there, as to
give license for shipping three thousand barrels of flour,
circumstances not admitting of further supplies at that time;
that this business was conducted by Mr Robert Morris in a
manner with which he was well pleased; that Congress had
also, in order to promote the success of the Spanish
operations against Pensacola, &c. agreed to make a diversion
to the southward, to detach a considerable body of regular
troops and militia to South Carolina under General Gates;
that his Majesty was well pleased with, and highly sensible
of, these marks of their friendly disposition, and had
directed him to desire Mr Jay to convey his thanks to them on
the occasion.
Mr Jay expressed his satisfaction at this intelligence, and
promised to take the earliest opportunity of conveying to
Congress the sense his Majesty entertained of their
friendship, manifested by these measures. He told the Count
it gave him pleasure to hear the business of the Spanish
supplies was committed to Mr Robert Morris, and assured him,
that the fullest confidence might be reposed in that
gentleman's abilities and integrity. He requested his
Excellency again to assure his Majesty, that he might rely on
the good disposition of Congress, and of their evincing it in
every way, which the situation of their affairs and the
interest of the common cause might render practicable and
expedient. The Count told Mr Jay, that he had proposed to the
French Ambassador to send to Congress for the use of their
army, clothing for ten regiments lately taken in the convoy
bound from Britain to Jamaica, and in which the two Crowns
were equally interested; that the Ambassador approved the
proposition, but had not yet given his final answer. He then
observed, that a negotiation for a peace between Britain and
Spain appeared at present more distant than ever; that the
former had offered his Majesty everything he could desire to
induce him to a separate peace; but that the King, adhering
to the same resolutions in favor of America, which had
influenced his conduct in his mediation for a general peace
and since, had rejected them, and that Congress might rely on
his Majesty's determination never to give up or forsake
America, but on the contrary continue affording her all the
aids in his power.
He told Mr Jay, that the Court of London, disappointed in
their expectations of detaching Spain, had it in
contemplation again to send Commissioners to America to
treat with Congress on the subject of an accommodation with
them; that this measure was at present under the
consideration of the Privy Council, and that there was reason
to suppose it would be adopted. He observed, that the English
had hitherto discovered much finesse and little true policy;
that first they endeavored by their intrigues in France to
separate that kingdom and America, but not succeeding there,
they sent Commissioners to America; that the last year they
attempted to detach France, and this year Spain, and that
being unsuccessful in both they would again attempt America;
that the best way of defeating their designs was mutual
confidence in each other. He remarked, that America could not
rely on any promise of Britain, and asked if she was once
detached from France and Spain, who could compel an
observance of them? Mr Jay thanked the Count for this
communication, and assured him, that Congress would not only
adhere to their engagements from motives of interest, but
from a regard to their honor, and the faith of treaties; that
the opinion of Congress on this subject corresponded with
that of his Excellency, and that their conduct, with respect
to the former English Commissioners, gave conclusive evidence
of their sentiments on the subject. Mr Jay promised in case
he received any intelligence relative to this matter, his
Excellency might depend on its being communicated immediately
to him.
The Count appeared satisfied with this, and again repeated
his former assurances of the King's good disposition towards
America, &c. &c.
Mr Jay informed his Excellency, that the subject on which he
was desirous of conversing with him, arose from the paper he
had received from M. Gardoqui the 15th instant, containing
his Excellency's answer to Mr Jay's letter of the 14th.
Mr Jay then requested the Count to communicate to his Majesty
his thanks for the offer he had been pleased to make, of his
responsibility in order to facilitate a loan of one hundred
and fifty thousand dollars, and also for the promise of
clothing, &c. &c. and to assure him, that the gratitude of
the States would always be proportionate to the obligations
conferred upon them; he observed to the Count, that he
intended to attempt this loan in Spain, France, and Holland,
and begged to be informed in what manner he should evidence
the responsibility of his Majesty to the persons, who might
be disposed to lend the money, for that in this and other
similar cases, he meant to be guided by his Excellency's
directions. The Count replied, that as this matter fell
within the department of M. Musquir, the Minister of Finance,
he would consult him upon it on Tuesday evening next, and
immediately thereafter inform Mr Jay of the result. He then
apologized, and expressed his regret for not being able to
furnish the money he had expected to supply (alluding
evidently to the _thirty or forty thousand pounds_ which, in
the conference at Aranjues, the 11th day of May last, he said
he expected to be able to supply by the end of this or
beginning of next year.) He said he had been disappointed in
the remittances expected from America, for he was advised,
that two ships, which he had expected would arrive from
thence with treasure in December or January next, would not
come, and that this and other circumstances rendered it
impossible for him to advance us any money in Europe. But
that he would, nevertheless, agreeably to the King's
intentions, give us all the assistance in his power.
Mr Jay desired to be informed, whether any steps were
necessary for him to take for forwarding the clothing at
Cadiz to America. The Count answered, that he waited the
French Ambassador's answer on the subject, and that he had as
yet no inventory of them, but that he would again speak to
the Ambassador, and make arrangements for sending them on to
America as soon as possible.
Mr Jay then proceeded to regret that the pleasure he derived
from these instances of his Majesty's friendship to the
United States, was mingled with pain from being informed by
the abovementioned paper, that the King conceived he might
have just cause to be disgusted with them.
Because, 1st; they had drawn the bills of exchange without
his previous consent; and, 2dly, because they had not given
any tokens of a recompense. Mr Jay reminded his Excellency
that these bills were drawn upon himself, and not on Spain,
and although that Congress might have hoped, for reasons
already assigned, to have been enabled to pay them by a loan
from his Majesty, yet that every other usual measure was left
open for that purpose. That an application to Spain for such
a loan could give no just cause of offence, for that if it
had not been convenient to her to make it, all that she had
to was to have told him so, and he was then at liberty to
take such measures for procuring it elsewhere as he might
think proper. The Count replied, that what Mr Jay observed
was true, but that certainly the bills were drawn with an
expectation of their being paid by Spain, and that this might
probably have been done if previous notice of the measure had
been given. That he always intended to have done something
towards their payment, but had been prevented by
disappointments, and the exigencies of the State. Mr Jay
continued to observe, that the second cause assigned for this
disgust, viz. that Congress had given no tokens of a
recompense, must have risen from a mistake. He reminded his
Excellency, that he had never requested a donation from
Spain, but that on the contrary he had repeatedly offered to
pledge the faith of the United States for the repayment with
interest, within a reasonable time after the war, of whatever
sum his Majesty might be so kind as to lend them. To these
remarks the Count said only, that interest for the money
would have been no object with them; that they would gladly
have lent it to us without interest, and repeated his regret
at the disappointment which had prevented them. He appeared
rather uneasy and desirous of waiving the subject.
Mr Jay next called the Count's attention to a part of the
paper in question, which informed him "that there were hints
(though no credit was given to it) of some understanding
between America and the Court of London." He observed, that
this subject was both delicate and important; that so far as
this understanding related to Congress, or the governments of
either of the States, he was sure that this insinuation was
entirely groundless; that there might possibly be intriguing
individuals, who might have given cause to such suspicions;
that if there were such men or bodies of men it would be for
the good of the common cause that they should be detected,
and their designs frustrated. He therefore requested, that if
his Excellency had any evidence on this subject, he would be
pleased to communicate it, and thereby enable him to give
Congress an opportunity of taking such measures as
circumstances might render proper. The Count said, he had
nothing specific or particular as yet to communicate. That he
was pursuing measures for further discoveries, and that he
would mention to Mr Jay whatever information might result
from them.
Mr Jay resumed his animadversions on the paper in question by
observing, that it assured him it was necessary, "that
Congress should give sure and effective tokens of a good
correspondence, proposing reciprocal measures of a
compensation, &c. in order that his Majesty might extend his
further dispositions towards them." That for his part he
could conceive of no higher tokens, which one nation could
give to another of friendship and good will, than their
commissioning and sending a person for the express purpose of
requesting his Majesty to enter into treaties of amity and
alliance with them, and that on terms of reciprocity of
interest and mutual advantage. To this the Count replied,
that to this day he was ignorant of these terms, and that no
particular propositions had been made him. Mr Jay then
reminded him of his letters from Cadiz, and of the conference
on the subject at Aranjues on the 2d day of June last, in the
latter of which, after conferring on the subject of aids, and
of the treaty, his Excellency had promised to reduce his
sentiments on both to writing, and send him notes on each;
that as to the first, Mr Jay had received the notes, but not
on the last; that he had been in constant expectation of
receiving them, and that delicacy forbade pressing his
Excellency on that matter, or offering anything further till
he should have leisure to complete them.
He said he thought he had given them to Mr Jay or Mr
Carmichael, which both of them assured him he had not. Of
this the Count appeared after a little time satisfied, when
Mr Jay resumed the subject by remarking, that the order of
conducting that business appeared to him to be this; that as
a right was reserved by the Secret Article to his Majesty to
accede to the treaty between France and America whenever he
thought proper, and that the latter would go into a
discussion of any alteration the King might propose, that
should be founded on reciprocity of interest, the first
question was whether his Majesty would accede to it as it
was, or whether he would propose any and what alterations.