my mission would have a more agreeable issue. He asked me if I was
content with the conduct of France. I answered, most certainly; for
that she was spending her blood as well as treasure for us. This
answer was too general for him. He renewed the question, by asking
whether I was content with the conduct of France relative to our
proposed treaty with Spain. I answered, that, as far as it had come to
my knowledge, I was. This required an explanation, and I gave it to
him, by observing, that, by the Secret Article, Spain was at liberty
to accede to our treaty with France whenever she pleased, and with
such alterations as both parties might agree to; that Congress had
appointed me to propose this accession now, and had authorised me to
enter into the necessary discussions and arguments; that, to give
their application the better prospect of success, they had directed me
to request the favorable interposition of the King of France with the
King of Spain; that I had done it by letter to Count de Vergennes,
who, in answer, had assured me of the King's disposition to comply
with the request of Congress; and informed me that instructions
analogous to this disposition should be given to the Ambassador at
Madrid; that it gave me pleasure to acknowledge that his conduct
towards me had always been polite and friendly, but that I still
remained ignorant whether any, and what progress had been made in the
mediation. He seemed not to have expected this; but observed, that all
he could do was to be ready to do me any friendly office in his power,
for that he did not see how his _mediation_ could be proper, except in
cases where points of the treaty were discussed, and could not be
agreed upon. To this I replied, that these were only _secondary_
objects of the expected mediation, and that the _primary_ one was to
prevail upon the King of Spain to commence the negotiation, and enter
upon these discussions; but that I remained uninformed of what he
might have done on that subject. The Ambassador made no direct reply
to these remarks, but again proceeded to repeat his advice, that I
should try one more letter to the Minister. I told him I had, after
much consideration, made up my mind on that subject, and that it
appeared to me inexpedient to follow his advice in this instance; and
that when he should see the letters I had already written, he would
probably be of the same opinion. I promised to show him the letters
the next day, and took my leave. How far the tone of this conversation
may be judged to have been prudent, I know not. It was not assumed,
however, but after previous and mature deliberation. I reflected that
we had lost Charleston, that reports ran hard against us, and
therefore that this was no time to clothe one's self with humility.
On considering the earnestness with which the Ambassador had pressed
me to write another letter to the Minister, I began to suspect that it
might be the wish of the latter, who, conscious of having gone rather
too far, might desire this way to retreat through. I concluded,
therefore, to adhere to my resolution of not writing, but that if the
Ambassador should confirm my suspicions by again pressing the measure,
in that case to consent to send Mr Carmichael to the Minister with my
compliments, and a request that he would favor me with a conference at
such time as might be most convenient to him.
The next day, Thursday, the 31st of August, I visited the French
Ambassador, and showed him the four last letters I had written to the
Minister. He confessed they were perfectly unexceptionable, but again
advised me to write another; I told him, I could not think of it, but
that I would so far follow his advice, as to send Mr Carmichael to
request of the Minister the favor of a conference. The Ambassador
expressed much satisfaction at this proposal, and immediately
promised to speak to the Minister on the subject. He advised, however,
that I should delay the measure till Saturday, on account of some
urgent business which then employed the Minister. To this I agreed. I
hinted to him, that the person expected to succeed Mr Mirales was in
town. He said he did not know, and waived the subject. I thought if
that was really the case, it could do no harm that the Minister should
know I suspected it. In the afternoon, the Ambassador's secretary paid
me a visit, and seemed desirous of entering into particular
conversation on the subject of our affairs, but as I did not approve
of talking with the Ambassador through his secretary, I avoided it, by
turning the conversation to light and general topics. He asked me
several leading questions, and among others, whether there was a _M.
Gardoqui_ in town. I told him many persons came and departed that I
was ignorant of, and passed on to another subject. Two persons about
the Court mentioned to Mr Carmichael this evening, that this person
was arrived.
On Saturday morning, the 2d of September, I committed my message for
the Minister to Mr Carmichael, with directions, first to call on the
French Ambassador, and ask him whether anything new had occurred to
render the delivery of it improper. He told Mr Carmichael, he had
mentioned to the Minister my desire of seeing him that day, but that
the Minister said, he was so much occupied that it would be
impossible. He, nevertheless, told Mr Carmichael _he might go and
see_. This being mentioned to me, I told Mr Carmichael to go on.
After being long detained in the ante-chamber, he had an opportunity
of delivering his message, and received for answer, that the Minister
could not possibly see me till the next Tuesday evening, and that Mr
Carmichael should call again on Tuesday morning, to be informed
whether it would be in his power to see me _then_; that the person so
long expected was arrived; that he had been preparing instructions for
him, and would endeavor in the meantime to send him to converse with
me.
On Sunday, the 3d of September, Don Diego Gardoqui, of Bilboa,
presented me a note from the Count de Florida Blanca, in these words.
Translation.
"The Count de Florida Blanca presents his compliments to Mr
Jay, and recommends to him to form an acquaintance with the
bearer of this letter, being the person in question, whom he
had expected from day to day."
It is observable, that M. Gardoqui's name is not mentioned in this
letter, which appears the more singular, as the Count had never
mentioned to me the _name_ of the _person expected_. This was being
very wary. Mr Carmichael told me, he took this to be the same person
whom he saw first at the inn, and afterwards walking in the private
gardens.
Hence it appears, that these strange delays were not unavoidable.
Probably, the desire of further intelligence of the enemy's operations
in America, and the undecided state of Mr Cumberland's negotiation,
might have given occasion to them. To these may perhaps be added an
expectation that our distresses would render us more pliant, and less
attached to the Mississippi. But these are conjectures, and as men
sometimes act without any settled system, it may not be prudent to
scan their conduct by a supposed plan, however probable.
M. Gardoqui began the conversation by assurances of his personal
attachment to our cause and country, which gave occasion to mutual and
complimentary professions too unimportant to repeat. I told him, that
the holders of the bills, after having shown me great forbearance and
delicacy, were at length perfectly tired; that the house of Casa Mayor
had sent their bills after me, but that as I was not to expect the
honor of a conference with the Minister until Tuesday evening, at
soonest, I had requested time till Wednesday to give my answer. I
therefore begged the favor of him to mention this to the Minister, and
obtain his directions what I should do. He asked to what amount
Congress had resolved to draw. I told him. He observed, that the Court
ought previously to have been applied to. In answer to which, I
recapitulated the reasons before given to the Minister. He dwelt
largely on the necessities of the State, and I expatiated on the
extensive ideas entertained of Spanish opulence in America. He assured
me they were mistaken, and spoke of the difficulties occasioned by the
detention of their treasures abroad. He then remarked, that we offered
no _consideration_ for the money we solicited. I replied, that we
offered the same consideration that other nations did who borrowed
money, viz. the repayment of the principal with interest. He asked me
if we had nothing further to offer, and mentioned ship timber. I said
we had ship timber, but that as it belonged to individuals, the public
could not get it otherwise than by purchase, and that it could answer
no purpose to borrow money with one hand and instantly repay it with
the other, for that a repayment in money, or in ship timber, was the
same thing in fact, and differed only in name. Besides, that if Spain
wanted timber from America, it would be better in case he went there,
that he should be charged with that business, than that it should be
under the direction of Congress, for that public works were always
more expensive than private. He agreed in this. He again asked me
whether I could think of nothing else to offer. I told him no. Whether
there was nothing on the side of the Mississippi that I could offer. I
told him nothing that I could think of except land, and that I did not
think it would be worth the King's while to buy a hundred thousand
pounds worth of land there, considering the immense territories he
already possessed. He inquired whether I thought Congress would draw
for the whole sum. I answered that it was in my opinion not
improbable, for that they would consider the acceptance of ten or
twelve thousand dollars as a prelude to further aids, naturally
supposing, that if the King afforded us any supplies at all, they
would be such as would correspond with his dignity, and not be limited
to that little pittance. He desired me to meet him the next day at M.
Del Campo's, which I promised to do.
I shortly after saw the French Ambassador, who among other things
mentioned the proposed meeting at Del Campo's, which, with various
other circumstances, shows his being on confidential terms with the
Minister.
In the evening M. Gardoqui again paid me a visit, and pointedly
proposed my offering the navigation of the Mississippi, as a
consideration for aids. I told him that object could not come in
question in a treaty for a loan of one hundred thousand pounds, and
Spain should consider, that to render alliances permanent, they should
be so formed as to render it the interest of both parties to observe
them; that the Americans, almost to a man, believed that God Almighty
had made that river a highway for the people of the upper country to
go to the sea by; that this country was extensive and fertile; that
the General, many officers, and others of distinction and influence in
America, were deeply interested in it; that it would rapidly settle,
and that the inhabitants would not readily be convinced of the justice
of being obliged, either to live without foreign commodities, and lose
the surplus of their productions, or be obliged to transport both over
rugged mountains, and through an immense wilderness, to and from the
sea, when they daily saw a fine river flowing before their doors, and
offering to save them all that trouble and expense, and that without
injury to Spain. He observed, that the present generation would not
want this navigation, and that we should leave future ones to manage
their own affairs, &c.
The next day, that is, the 4th of September, I met M. Gardoqui at M.
Del Campo's. After some unconnected conversation, I observed to M. Del
Campo, that as all the papers between the Minister and myself had
passed through his hands, it was unnecessary to give him any
information, except what related to the present state of the bills
drawn upon me, which I proceeded to state in a short, but particular
manner. He replied by making several strictures on the impropriety of
drawing bills without previous notice and consent. He remarked, that
they might with more propriety have been drawn on France, with whom we
were allied, and who were richer than they; that the King must first
take care of his own people, before he could supply us; that Spain had
been brought into the war by our quarrel, but received no advantage
from us; that they had been told of our readiness to assist in taking
Pensacola, &c. but instead of aids, he had heard of nothing but
demands from us; that our situation was represented as being
deplorable, and that the enemy talked of the submission of some of the
States, and of negotiations being on foot for that purpose.
Whether this style proceeded from natural arrogance, or was intended
to affect my temper, I cannot say; in either case, I thought it most
prudent to take no notice of it, but proceed calmly and cautiously,
and the more so as this was the first time I had ever conversed with
this man. I told him in substance, though more at large, that the
assurances given Congress of the friendly disposition of Spain by M.
Mirales and others had been confided in, and had induced Congress to
expect the aids in question. That if this application could be called
a demand, it was still the first they had made to my knowledge; that
men in arms against the enemies of Spain were serving her as well as
themselves, and therefore might without impropriety request her aid;
that our separation from Britain was an object important to Spain, and
that the success, with which we had opposed her whole force for six
years, showed what the power of both, if under one direction, might be
capable of; that I knew nothing of Spain's having been drawn into the
war by or for us, and that this was not to be found among the reasons
she had alleged for it; that an attack on Pensacola could not be
expected to be made by troops actually employed in repelling the
enemy's assaults from their own doors, and that the principles of
self-defence would not permit or justify it; that Spain had much to
expect in future from our commerce, and that we should be able as well
as willing to pay our debts; that the tales told of our despondency
and submission resulted from the policy of the enemy, not from fact,
and I believed no more of their private negotiations between America
and Britain, than I did of there being private negotiations between
Spain and Britain for a separate peace, which the Minister assured me
was not the case; that if on the arrival of the bills, I had been told
plainly that no money could be advanced, further drafts would soon
have been prevented; but that a contrary conduct having been adopted,
other expectations had been excited; that as to France, she had done,
and was still doing much for us, and that her being our ally did not
confer propriety upon every request that we could make to her. He
still pressed this point, and complained that the greater part of the
money heretofore advanced by Spain had been laid out in France. He saw
that France was deriving great commercial advantages from us, but that
our commerce never would be an object with Spain, because all her
productions would find a better market in her own Colonies. He desired
a note of the bills which had arrived, and then made some reflections
on the proposal of a treaty. We agreed perfectly well, that mutual
interest should be the basis of it, and I added, that the good opinion
entertained of the King and nation by America, was also a pleasing
circumstance. He said, however that might be, America did not seem
inclined to gratify Spain, in the only point in which she was deeply
interested. Here followed much common-place reasoning about the
navigation of the Mississippi, of which your Excellency has heretofore
heard too much to require a repetition. He spoke also much of the
difficulties of Spain, as to money matters, saying that their
treasures in America could at present be of no use to them, as they
had given orders that none should be sent home during the war, even if
it continued these ten years; and this was done in order, by stopping
the usual current of specie into Europe, to embarrass the measures
which Britain must take to obtain her necessary supplies.
On the 6th of September, M. Gardoqui brought me word, that I might
accept the bills of Casa Mayor, amounting to one thousand one hundred
and ten dollars, which I accordingly did. The proposed conference was
postponed, nor indeed was it obtained until the 23d of September.
On the 11th, the French Ambassador's Secretary called upon me, by the
Ambassador's direction, to inform me, that an express was going to
Paris, and to know whether anything further had been done in our
affairs since he had seen me. I told him things continued in the same
situation. He again commenced a conversation on the subject, and as he
came directly from the Ambassador I entered into it. He expressed some
concern for the delays I met with. I told him such things must be
expected. He said he hoped I was content with France. I replied, that I
apprehended France considered an interference in our negotiations, as
a delicate matter, for that as she had probably held up the exclusive
navigation of the Mississippi, and Gulf of Mexico, among other objects
to induce Spain to take a part in the war, she might hesitate about
pressing Spain into a treaty with us on terms, that would not
comprehend this object. He said M. Gerard had reasoned well about
those matters, but that he did not believe France would be backward,
nor indeed that she had promised this to Spain to bring her into the
war. I told him, I should not be surprised to find, that the delay
arose from a desire of hearing further news from America, and probably
from Philadelphia. He said, that could not be the case, for since M.
Mirales's death, Spain had no person there to give them intelligence.
I told him that Spain might be waiting the issue of new motions
respecting the Mississippi in Congress, and that I was sure Count de
la Luzerne would readily be at the trouble of communicating to them
any interesting information on _that_ or any other subject. Whether he
drew any conclusions from the manner in which this was said, I cannot
say, but in a way that looked like exculpating that Minister, he told
me, that Count de la Luzerne had only mentioned to the French
Ambassador, that two Members of Congress, with whom he had talked over
the affair of the Mississippi, thought it would be best not to bring
on the question of the navigation until Spain should become possessed
of the adjacent country, for that then it might be ceded with a better
grace. He mentioned no names. This explains the letter herein before
mentioned. The inferences which flow from it are obvious. I incline to
suspect, that what I said in my letters on that head returned here by
the same conveyance.
On the 13th of September, M. Gardoqui delivered me the following
verbal message from Count de Florida Blanca. "That the exigencies of
the State would not permit his Majesty to provide for the payment of
more of the bills drawn upon me than had been already accepted." I
expressed my regret that this had not been told me at first, and told
him it appeared a little extraordinary that the Minister should employ
himself and me three months in making and answering propositions
relative to a loan which it was not in his power to make. I touched
also on the assurances from time to time given me, and intimated, that
something, which I could not at present see through, must have caused
this change; that I lamented it the more, as it would weaken the
foundations on which I wished to see a cordial union laid between the
two countries.
I dined with the French Ambassador. He was a little out of spirits,
and on talking to him on what had happened, I told him there was
nothing now left but for me to apply to France. He encouraged the
idea, and agreed with me, that the bills ought to be by all means
saved from protests. He imputed the conduct of Spain to resentment
against M. Necker, for opposing a certain scheme of Spanish finance,
which he thought interfered with his plan. It is a curious one, but I
shall omit it at present, as I fear Congress already wish this letter
at an end. As the Count de Florida Blanca's message to me by M.
Gardoqui was a verbal one, and might hereafter be denied or explained
away as convenience might dictate, I thought it important to establish
it, and for that and other reasons which need no explanation, I wrote
the Count the following letter.
"St Ildefonso, September 14th, 1780.
"Sir,
"The information I received yesterday from your Excellency by
M. Gardoqui, has drawn the affair of the bills of exchange to
a conclusion. He told me, that the exigencies of the State
would not permit his Majesty to provide for the payment of
more of those bills than were already accepted, amounting to
about fourteen thousand dollars.
"As it is important that every nation at war should know
exactly the state of their resources, and as America has been
induced to consider the friendship of his Catholic Majesty
as among the number of hers, I must request the favor of your
Excellency to tell me frankly whether the United States may
expect any, and what aids from Spain. The general assurances
of amity, which that country has received from this, together
with what has passed between your Excellency and myself
relative to clothing for our troops, and supplies of specie
in America, will I hope be considered as authorising this
question; and the more so, as M. Gardoqui, to whose arrival
your Excellency postponed the discussion of these matters,
informs me he is not instructed to say anything to me on
these, or indeed any other subjects.
"I have the honor to be, &c.
JOHN JAY."
On this day some glorious reports from America arrived. It seemed as
if she had risen like a giant refreshed with sleep, and was doing
wonders. I sent the news to the Count as usual, without appearing to
be affected by his late conduct. I began again to be seen, and in a
few instances to be known.
The next day, the 15th of September, M. Gardoqui delivered to me a
paper by way of answer to my letter of yesterday to the Minister. It
is in these words;
"The following answer has been dictated to me in his
Excellency's name by Don Bernardo del Campo, to be delivered
to the honorable John Jay.
"That it is not his Majesty's intention to stop assisting the
States, whenever means can be found to do it, but that it
will be impossible to supply them with money in Europe, there
being none to spare, for that which ought to have come this
year from America, has neither come, nor is it known when it
will, and that which would have facilitated a far advanced
negotiation is likely to produce no effect, in a great
measure, _through the undermining of some persons of rank in
France_.
"The States not giving timely advice, nor having taken his
Majesty's previous consent, he could not arrange his affairs
beforehand, in order to assure the acceptance and payment of
the bills they have drawn, for which reasons, and that
Congress has not to this day given any tokens of a
recompense, his Majesty might have just cause of disgust, but
notwithstanding he does not, nor will change his ideas, and
will always retain those of humanity, friendship, and
compassion, that he has had towards the colonies. That,
consequently, if Mr Jay or his constituents should find money
upon credit, to the sum of one hundred or one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars, that his Majesty will be answerable
for the said sum, payable in the space of three years; that
his Majesty will besides exert all that is possible to assist
them with clothing and other things, and, finally, in order
that his Majesty may extend his further dispositions, it is
precisely necessary that they should give sure and effective
tokens of a good correspondence, proposing reciprocal
measures of a compensation that may establish a solid
friendship and confidence, without reducing it to words and
protests of mere compliment.
"This being the substance, I would further suggest to Mr
Jay's consideration, that the continuance of assisting the
States by answering the sum expressed in a manner much more
public than that of paying the money privately, shows plainly
the sincerity of his Majesty, although the States have not to
this day proposed any equivalent to the assistance already
given, and to the expenses occasioned by a war, which had its
true origin from them, to all which must be added, (though
by the way no credit is given to it,) that there are hints of
some understanding between the colonies and England.
"_St Ildefonso, September 15th, 1780._
JAMES GARDOQUI."
It is to be observed, that this paper when first delivered was not
signed, and suspecting that this omission might not be accidental, I
mentioned it to M. Gardoqui a day or two afterwards. After some
hesitation, and doubts of its being necessary, he signed it. I made no
remarks at all to M. Gardoqui on any part of this paper except the
last article, which I treated with great indignation.