went to the seaports by the post, none of them contained anything
material, except one from St Ildefonso of the 16th of September,
advising Congress of the necessity of suspending further drafts on me
for the present.
Congress will recollect, that my letter of the 26th of May contained
notes of a conference I had with the Minister on the 11th of that
month, on the subjects of my two former letters to him, the first in
answer to his questions, and the latter relative to the resolution for
drawing bills upon me. It may be remembered also, that, in this
conference, the Minister promised me his sentiments in writing in a
few days, as well on the subject of the proposed treaty, as on the
bills which were daily expected. The first I have not yet received,
and it was not before the 7th of June that I was favored with the
latter.
In this interval there arrived here from England, by the way of
Lisbon, an Abbe Hussey. He came to Lisbon in company with Mr
Cumberland, one of Lord George Germain's secretaries, who, with his
family, purposed, on obtaining permission, to come to Madrid. This
priest was known to many, being a pensioner of the Spanish Court, and
formerly in the late Prince Massarano's family. Indeed he took no
pains to conceal himself, or his business, which was to obtain
permission for his friend to proceed, on account of the bad health of
a daughter. Mr Carmichael watched his motions with success and
industry, and was the first who mentioned his arrival to me. He hired
lodgings and a coach for Mr Cumberland, and visited several persons
about the Court, particularly M. del Campo, First Secretary of the
Minister.
On the first of June I received a card from the Minister, desiring to
see me at nine o'clock the next evening. I waited upon him
accordingly. The following are notes of what passed upon that
occasion.
[Notes of a Conference between his Excellency the Count de
Florida Blanca and Mr Jay, in the office of the former at
Aranjues, 2d of June, 1780, reduced to writing, immediately
after the conference ended, by Mr Carmichael, who was present
at it.]
In consequence of a card received by Mr Jay yesterday, from
his Excellency the Count de Florida Blanca, appointing him a
meeting at nine o'clock this evening, Mr Jay waited on him at
that hour. The conversation commenced on the part of the
Minister, with polite inquiries for the state of Mr Jay's
health, which, he said, had induced him not to send the notes
promised on the former meeting, at the time when appointed,
as he had been informed that he was indisposed. He attributed
to his own frequent ill state of health (a disorder of the
nerves, occasioned by his necessary application to business)
the disappointment and delay to which, without intending it,
the business that passed through his hands was sometimes
subjected. He then said, that on Sunday following, at eleven
o'clock in the forenoon, if Mr Carmichael would wait on him,
he would send Mr Jay the notes formerly promised him.
He added that his reason for desiring to see him at present
proceeded from something mentioned to him by the French
Ambassador, of which he supposed he was informed. He
recapitulated what he had before mentioned of the King's good
faith and favorable disposition towards America, and entered
more fully into his conduct in the negotiation with Great
Britain, when the Court of Spain proposed a truce between
that country and the United States, observing, that as the
King at that period was determined not to sacrifice our
interests, it could not be supposed that now, when at war
with Great Britain, his Majesty would be less disposed to
maintain them. After these reflections and assurances, he
told Mr Jay that the person lately from England, by the way
of Portugal, was the chaplain of their former Embassy at
London; that he had been there for some time on his private
affairs, and had at the same time instructions concerning an
exchange of prisoners, which their sufferings rendered
expedient; that the death of an uncle, a chaplain of the
Court, had obliged him to return; that an English gentleman
and his family had come to Lisbon with him, under the
pretext, or really on account of the ill health of a
daughter, to whom the Duke of Dorset was much attached; that
the opposition made by his friends to the marriage had
affected her health, and that this family was desirous of
passing through Spain to Italy. He added, that this gentleman
was one of Lord George Germain's secretaries, and would
perhaps have some proposals to make for an exchange of
prisoners, and possibly others of a different nature, which
he assured Mr Jay should be communicated to him as candidly
as he had communicated the extravagant scheme presented by
Sir J. Dalrymple. He desired Mr Jay, therefore, to make
himself easy on this subject, giving new assurances of the
King's strict regard to justice and good faith, and of his
disposition to assist America.
Mr Jay begged him to be persuaded of the perfect confidence
of America and himself, and of their reliance on the good
faith, justice, and honor of his Catholic Majesty; that he
had no other apprehension from the circumstance of Englishmen
resorting to this Court, than that the enemy would on this,
as on former occasions, avail themselves of it, by
endeavoring to alarm and deceive our people.
The Count de Florida Blanca assured Mr Jay, that he would
shortly give him such proofs of the King's intentions, as
would enable him to prevent any bad effects from such
misrepresentations, and convince America of his Majesty's
favorable disposition and good faith. After repeating
assurances of his full confidence, Mr Jay mentioned that he
had received two bills of exchange, drawn by order of
Congress on him, and that he should take no measures on that
subject, as he had before the honor of telling him, till he
had consulted his Excellency. The Count, having asked the
amount, and being told that the bills were for between six
and seven hundred dollars, told him, smiling, that he might
accept them, and he hoped so to arrange matters, as, in a
short time, to make him easy on that head. He then said, that
an expedition had been suggested to him, in which the
Americans might co-operate; but, without entering into
particulars, he recollected himself, and said he would send
the project to Mr Jay by Mr Carmichael at the same time that
he should give him the other papers. The conference ended
with mutual compliments.
_June 4th._ This morning the Chevalier de Burgoing, Secretary
of the French Embassy, waited on Mr Jay, and afterwards on Mr
Carmichael, and told them the Ambassador had informed him,
that the Count de Florida Blanca had received despatches from
Versailles, which demanded his instant attention, and that,
therefore, he could not see Mr Carmichael until the 5th, at
the hour mentioned in the conference of the 2d. Mr Jay,
however, having received no direct message from the Minister,
thought it proper for Mr Carmichael to wait on him at the
place and hour appointed. Accordingly he went to the Bureau
of Foreign Affairs, and was told by order of the Minister,
that he had desired the Ambassador to acquaint Mr Jay, that
he could not see Mr Carmichael that day, but desired to see
him next Monday, at eleven.
_June 5th._ Mr Carmichael waited on the Minister, agreeably
to appointment, who, on his entrance, immediately expressed
his concern, that the arrival of a courier, which informed
him of the intentions of the Court of Great Britain to
expedite the sailing of their grand fleet, had engaged his
attention so much as to prevent him from fulfilling his
promise of sending the notes mentioned in the former
conferences, that he would certainly do it on the Wednesday
following, and desired Mr Carmichael to wait on him that day
at the same hour to receive them. He then mentioned an
expedition, which had been proposed to him from Bilboa, to
intercept the homeward bound ships of the East India Company,
by equipping some frigates in America at the expense of his
Catholic Majesty, desiring Mr Carmichael to communicate this
to Mr Jay, that he might turn his attention to that object,
to enable him to judge of the probability of its success. He
touched slightly on the subject of bills of exchange, and on
the only difficulty of the treaty, viz. the navigation of the
Mississippi, which he said he hoped some middle means might
be hit on to obviate. He concluded by saying that he would
give his sentiments on that, and other subjects to Mr Jay in
writing at the time abovementioned, and hoped that he would
believe the delay hitherto proceeded from no other motives
than those he had mentioned. Mr Carmichael assured him, that
Mr Jay was too sensible of the importance of his other
occupations, and of his candor, to impute the delay to any
other cause, and after common civilities he withdrew.
This conversation needs no comment. It promised well. On or about the
19th of June, Mr Cumberland, his wife, and two daughters arrived,
appeared publicly, and were openly visited and received by persons of
distinction. But although it was not difficult to know who he was,
and with whom he associated, his business and measures continue to
this day mere objects of conjecture, further that he or the Minister
has thought proper to communicate them.[25] The impression made by his
arrival on the minds of the people is worthy of remark. They supposed
his errand to be secret overtures for peace, and as far as I can judge
were very glad of it. There is reason to believe that he favored these
conjectures from the first. He has since said publicly, that he was
authorised to offer to Spain Gibraltar, and other advantageous terms.
On the 7th of June, I received from the Minister his notes on the
subject of aids. They are in these words.
Translation.
Aranjues, June 7th, 1780.
"His Catholic Majesty would be very glad to be able to
furnish, at the present crisis, funds for the payment of the
one hundred thousand pounds sterling, proposed to be
addressed to Mr Jay, in order to evince the concern which the
King takes in the prosperity and relief of the United States
of North America, as well as in the personal satisfaction of
the abovementioned gentleman. But the demands of the present
war, and the great difficulty there would be to transport
hither the treasures of the King's possessions in that part
of the world, render it impracticable to furnish here, the
said sum in specie, as could be wished. Some expedient,
however, may be found to remedy this inconvenience. For
example; if the owners of the bills of exchange would be
content with the security or responsibility of his Catholic
Majesty, to pay the sum already mentioned in the term of two
years. The King will readily agree to such an arrangement,
even if it should be found necessary to add a moderate
interest. This security, given by such a sovereign as the
King of Spain, would induce the owners of those bills of
exchange, and the creditors of Congress to consent to a
measure so advantageous, and would equally serve to sustain
the credit and good faith of the same body.
"Mr Jay, therefore, is entreated to reflect on the idea just
stated to him, and in answer to inform us what measures he
thinks suitable to this scheme, in order that they may be
laid before the King, and his orders taken thereon. If the
expedient in question should be adopted, it will at the same
time be necessary to take measures in concert to reimburse to
the King this considerable sum, as well as others already
expended in favor of the United States. The first idea which
offers for reciprocal convenience is that Congress should
engage to build without delay some handsome frigates and
other smaller vessels of war, fixing the price of each, and
the time when they will be finished.
"This point once settled, it will be proper immediately to
take measures to equip these vessels as fast as they are
ready; to point out what articles will be necessary to send
from Spain for this purpose, and in what port they will have
notice to receive them. After this it is expedient to be
informed, whether the Americans themselves will engage to
come to the ports of Bilboa, St Ander, Ferrol, or Cadiz, for
the said articles, which they will find ready, and afterwards
transport them in their own vessels of war or letters of
marque to America. On this supposition it is conjectured,
that it would be easy to find hands enough in America to man
these new built vessels, which will sail under Spanish
colors. There are certainly among the subjects of the said
United States many who have made the voyage, and are
acquainted with the usual route of the ships of the English
East India Company, and who know perfectly well the ports and
places at which they stop. This fact established, it is
proposed to equip in the ports of the United States four good
frigates, and some other lighter vessels, with the effects
which shall be sent from hence on account of Spain. This
small squadron, under Spanish colors, shall be employed to
intercept the convoys of the said Company by cruising in the
proper latitudes. The measures just pointed out appear to be
the most proper to reimburse, in some shape, the expenses
already incurred by his Catholic Majesty, and to answer for
such security as has been proposed to be given in this
memoir. It being always understood, that a share of the
prizes taken from the English by this small squadron shall be
given to the crews, and even to Congress, in proportion to
the assistance which they shall furnish for the equipment of
the vessels.
"A speedy and decisive answer to all the points here
enumerated is requested, and Mr Jay is too enlightened not to
perceive that the common cause is interested therein."
To this paper, which deserves much attention, I returned the
following answer.
"Aranjues, June 9th, 1780.
"Sir,
"The propositions which your Excellency did me the honor to
send on the 7th inst. have been considered with all the
attention, which their great importance demands.
"The evidence they contain of his Majesty's friendly
disposition towards the United States will, I am persuaded,
make correspondent impressions on the citizens of America;
and permit me to assure you, that his Majesty's desire of
contributing to my personal satisfaction by measures
conducive to the welfare of my country, has excited my
warmest acknowledgments and attachment.
"The enlarged ideas my constituents entertain of the power,
wealth, and resources of Spain, are equal to those they have
imbibed of the wisdom and probity of his Catholic Majesty,
and of that noble and generous system of policy, which has
induced him to patronize their cause, and, by completing
their separation from Great Britain, effectually to disarm
the latter. Such wise and liberal designs, followed by such
great and extensive consequences, would add a bright page to
the annals of a reign already signalised by important events.
It is, therefore, with deep regret that Congress would
receive information that the aid they solicit, small when
compared with their ideas of the resources of Spain, has been
rendered impracticable by the expenses of a war, which, on
the part of Spain, is of a recent date. Nor will their
disappointment be less than their regret, when they find
their credit diminished by the failure of a measure, from the
success of which they expected to raise it.
"The kind disposition of his Majesty to become responsible at
the expiration of two years for the amount of the bills in
question, and that even with interest, is a proof of his
goodness, by which I am confident the United States will
consider themselves greatly obliged. But when it is
considered that bills of exchange, immediately on being drawn
and sold, become a medium in commerce, and pass through
various hands in satisfaction of various mercantile
contracts; that the drawer and every endorser become
responsible for their credit at every transfer; and that the
object of the merchants last holding the bills, as well as of
all other merchants, is money in hand or actively employed in
trade, and not money lying still, at an interest greatly
inferior to the usual profits to be gained in commerce; I
say, on considering these things, it appears to me that,
although no objection can be made to the good faith of his
Majesty, which is acknowledged by all the world, yet that the
last holders of the bills will prefer recovering the amount
of them, with the usual damages on protests, to delay of
payment for two years with interest.
"Should these bills, therefore, meet with this fate, his
Majesty will readily perceive its influence on the credit,
operations, and feelings of the United States; on the common
cause; on the hopes and spirits of the enemy. The necessity
or prudence which detains his Majesty's treasure in his
American dominions, is an unfortunate circumstance at a time
when it might be so usefully employed. There is,
nevertheless, room to hope, that the great superiority of the
allied fleets and armaments in the American seas will, in the
course of a year or eighteen months, render its
transportation safe and easy, and that the greater part of it
may arrive before the bills in question would become payable.
This will appear more probable, when the time necessary to
sell these bills, and the time which will be consumed in
their passage from America, and the time which will be
employed in their journey from different ports of Europe to
this place, are all added to the half a year which is
allotted for the payment of them after they have been
presented. I am authorised and ready to engage and pledge
the faith of the United States for the punctual repayment,
with interest, and within a reasonable term, of any sums of
money which his Majesty may be so kind as to lend them.
"As to the aids heretofore supplied to the United States, I
am without information relative to the precise terms on which
they were furnished, as well as their amount. When I left
Congress, they appeared to me not to possess full and
positive intelligence on these points. I ascribe this, not to
omissions in their commissioner, who then had the direction
of these affairs, but to those miscarriages and accidents, to
which the communication of intelligence to a distant country
is liable in time of war. If it should appear proper to your
Excellency, in order that I may be furnished with an accurate
and full statement of these transactions, I will do myself
the honor of transmitting them immediately to Congress; and,
as they happened prior to my appointment, I shall request
particular instructions on the subject.
"With respect to the plan proposed for the repayment of such
sums as Spain may lend to the United States, viz. by the
latter furnishing the former with frigates, &c. &c. I beg
leave to submit the following remarks to your Excellency's
consideration. In the United States there are timber, iron,
masts, shipwrights, pitch, tar, and turpentine; and Spain can
furnish the other requisites. But neither the timber, the
iron, the masts, nor the other articles, can be procured
without money. The Congress are in great want of money for
the immediate purposes of self-defence, for the maintenance
of their armies and vessels of war, and for all the other
expenses incident to military operations. The Congress,
pressed by their necessities, have emitted bills of credit,
till the depreciation of them forbids further emissions. They
have made loans from their great and good ally, and, in aid
of the system of gaining supplies by taxation and domestic
loans, they have, for the reasons which I have already had
the honor of explaining to your Excellency, drawn upon me the
bills before mentioned. These bills will be sold in the
United States for paper money, and that money will be
immediately wanted for the purposes I have enumerated. If,
therefore, this money was to be turned into frigates, the
obvious ends of drawing those bills would not be attained.
The war against the United States has raged without
intermission for six years already, and it will not be in
their power to pay their debts during its further
continuance, nor until the return of peace and uninterrupted
commerce shall furnish them with the means of doing it.
"That excellent frigates and other vessels may be built in
America cheaper than in Europe, I am persuaded. And I know,
that Congress will cheerfully give every aid in their power
to facilitate the execution of any plan of that kind, which
his Majesty may adopt, but, Sir, their necessities will not
permit them to supply money to those purposes, and I should
deceive your Excellency with delusive expectations, were I to
lead you to think otherwise. I would rather, that the United
States should be without money than without good faith; and,
therefore, neither my own principles of action, nor the
respect due to his Majesty and reputation of my country, will
ever suffer me (if my authority extended so far) to enter
into any contracts, which I had not the highest reason to
believe would be fully, fairly, and punctually performed on
the part of my constituents. Nor, in case his Majesty should
think proper to cause frigates to be built in America, can I
encourage your Excellency to expect, that they could be
easily manned there for cruises. The fact is, that the
American frigates often find difficulties in completing their
compliments, principally because the seamen prefer going in
privateers, which are numerous, and too useful to be
discouraged.
"The design of preparing an armament to intercept the English
East Indiamen appears to me very judicious. The enemy draw
their resources from commerce; to annoy the one, therefore,
is to injure the other. Before the present war, there were
several, but not a great many Americans, well acquainted with
the route of the East Indiamen. But whether any number of
these men could now be secretly collected is uncertain; for
if by a particular selection of and inquiry for them, the
enemy should become apprized of the design, they would
naturally take measures to frustrate it. For my part, I
should suppose, that many of these men are not necessary, and
that the proper number may be had from France, if not from
America.
"The idea of the United States co-operating in the execution
of this plan is flattering, and the terms proposed generous.
But so far as this co-operation will depend on the building
of frigates there as proposed, it cannot be effected from
their want of money. Whether the American frigates could be
employed in such an enterprise, that is, whether the
services, for which they may be already destined, will admit
of it, are, with other similar circumstances, necessary to be
known before that question could possibly be answered. The
distance from America, and the length of time necessary to
ask for and receive information and instructions from
thence, are such, that it would probably be more expedient,
that engagements for these purposes should be discussed and
concluded there than here. The circumstances of the United
States, while invaded, will be more fluctuating than those of
Spain, and measures in which they might conveniently embark
at one period, may shortly after be rendered impracticable by
the vicisitudes of war. It is further to be observed, that a
people, rising amidst such terrible struggles, with an
extensive country to defend, and that country invaded, and,
as it were, on fire in several places at once, are not in
good condition for foreign enterprises; but, on the contrary,
that it must generally be their interest, and of course their
policy, to keep their forces and strength at home, till the
expulsion of their enemies shall afford them leisure and
opportunities for distant and offensive operations.