respect to the treaty in contemplation between Spain and
America. He began by observing, that he now spoke as a
Minister, and as such, that he would be as candid and frank
as he had just been speaking as a private man; and that it
was always his disposition to do so with those from whom he
expected the same conduct. He then proceeded to observe, that
there was but one obstacle from which he apprehended any
great difficulty in forming a treaty with America, and
plainly intimated that this arose from the pretensions of
America to the navigation of the Mississippi. He repeated the
information, which the Count had received from M. Mirales,
that Congress had at one time relinquished that object; that
he also knew from the same source, that afterwards they had
made it an essential point of the treaty. He expressed his
uneasiness on this subject, and entered largely into the
views of Spain, with respect to the boundaries. (He mentioned
Cape Antonio and Cape ----, and expressed their resolution if
possible, of excluding the English entirely from the Gulf of
Mexico.) They wished to fix them by a treaty, which he hoped
would be perpetual between the two countries. He spoke amply
of the King's anxiety, resolution, and firmness on this
point, and insinuated a wish that some method might be fallen
upon to remove this obstacle. He observed, that the King had
received all his impressions with respect to the necessity of
this measure, previous to his being in place, and appeared to
regard it as a point from which his Majesty would never
recede, repeating that, still however he was disposed to give
America all the aid in his power, consistent with the
situation of his affairs, to distress the common enemy; that
this point being insisted on, it would be necessary for the
Court of Spain to obtain the most accurate knowledge of local
circumstances, with which he supposed Mr Jay and his
constituents were more fully apprised than his Majesty's
Ministers could be. That for this purpose they had already
written to the Havana and Louisiana, in order to obtain all
the necessary information, which he gave reason to believe
they had not yet received. He dwelt on the necessity of this
information previous to any treaty, and expressed his own
regret, that ways and means could not be found to obviate or
overcome this impediment.
Mr Jay here took an opportunity to mention, that many of the
States were bounded by that river, and were highly interested
in its navigation, but observed that they were equally
inclined to enter into any amicable regulations, which might
prevent any inconveniences with respect to contraband or
other objects, which might excite the uneasiness of Spain.
The Count, still, however, appeared to be fully of opinion,
that this was an object that the King had so much at heart,
that he would never relinquish it, adding, however, that he
hoped some middle way might be hit on, which would pave the
way to get over this difficulty, and desired Mr Jay to turn
his thoughts and attention to the subject, in which he
assured him he was as well disposed to assist him, as in the
means of procuring the assistance and succors for America
beforementioned; always repeating the King's favorable
disposition, his inviolable regard to his promises, &c. &c.
On this subject he also subjoined, that whenever Mr Jay chose
to go to Madrid, he desired to have previous notice of it;
for in those cases, he would leave his sentiments in writing
for him with Mr Carmichael, or, if he should also go to
Madrid, that he would then write to Mr Jay there, to which he
might return an answer by the _Parle_ (a post which goes to
and from Madrid) to Aranjues, every twentyfour hours.
Mr Jay expressed his full confidence in what the Count had
done him the honor to communicate to him, and assured him of
his satisfaction and happiness in having the good fortune to
transact a business so important to both countries, with a
Minister so liberal and candid in his manner of thinking and
acting.
The conference ended with much civility on the one part and
on the other, and with an intimation from the Count, that he
should take an opportunity of having the pleasure of Mr Jay's
company at dinner, and of being on that friendly footing on
which he wished to be with him.
What passed in the course of this conference needs no comment, though
it calls for information and instructions. If Congress remains firm,
as I have no reason to doubt, respecting the Mississippi, I think
Spain will finally be content with equitable regulations, and I wish
to know whether Congress would consider any regulations necessary to
prevent contraband, as inconsistent with their ideas of free
navigation. I wish that as little as possible may be left to my
discretion, and that, as I am determined to adhere strictly to their
sentiments and directions, I may be favored with them fully, and in
season.
The Count de Florida Blanca had upon all occasions treated me with so
much fairness, candor, and frankness, that between the confidence due
to him and the footing I was and ought to be on with the French
Ambassador, I was embarrassed exceedingly, especially as there is
little reason to doubt of their being on confidential terms with each
other. I was reduced to the necessity, therefore, of acting with
exquisite duplicity, a conduct which I detest as immoral, and
disapprove as impolitic, or of mentioning my difficulties to the
Count, and obtaining his answers. I preferred the latter, and wrote
the following letter to the Count de Florida Blanca.
"Aranjues, May 12th, 1780.
"Sir,
"It is with the utmost reluctance, that I can prevail upon
myself to draw your Excellency's attention from the great
objects that perpetually engage it. But the liberality,
frankness, and candor, which distinguished your conduct
towards me the last evening, has impressed me with such
sentiments of correspondent delicacy, as to place me in a
most disagreeable situation.
"Deeply sensible of the benefits received by my country from
their illustrious ally, prompted by duty and inclination to
act not only with the highest integrity, but the greatest
frankness towards him and his Minister, and influenced by the
good opinion I have imbibed of the talents, attachment, and
prudence of the Count de Montmorin, I have given him and his
Court assurances that he should receive from me all that
confidence, which these considerations dictate. These
assurances were sincere; I have most strictly conformed to
them, and as no circumstances of delicacy forbid it, I have
communicated to him the information I gave your Excellency
relative to American affairs, and the resolution of Congress
for drawing bills upon me, these being the only transactions
within my knowledge and department, which related to that
proposed connexion between Spain and America, for the
accomplishment of which, the King of France has been pleased
to interpose his kind offices with his Catholic Majesty.
"But, Sir, my feelings will not allow me to permit the
confidence due to one gentleman to interfere with that which
may be due to another. Honor prescribes limits to each, which
no consideration can tempt me to violate. You spoke to me the
last evening in the character of a private gentleman, as well
as of a public Minister, and in both without reserve. Let me
entreat your Excellency therefore to inform me, whether I am
to consider your conferences with me, either in the whole or
in part, as confidential. I am apprised of the delicacy of
this question. I wish I could know your sentiments without
putting it. I assure you my esteem and respect are too
sincere and too great, not to make me regret every measure,
that can give you an uneasy sensation. On this occasion I am
urged by justice to you as well as to myself, and that must
be my apology.
"Unpractised in the ways of courts, I rejoice in finding that
I am to transact the business committed to me with a
gentleman, who adorns his exalted station with virtues as
well as talents, and looks down on that system of finesse
and chicanery, which, however prevalent, wisdom rejects and
probity disapproves.
"With sentiments of attachment and esteem, I have the
honor to be, &c.
JOHN JAY."
To this I received the following answer.
Translation.
"Aranjues, May 14th, 1780.
"Sir,
"Sensible of the favorable opinion you are pleased to
entertain of my conduct, both as a minister and a private
gentleman, I have the honor to assure you, that on every
occasion, you shall experience nothing but frankness and
candor on my part. Besides that my own principles are
invariable on these points, I am certain thereby to follow
the example and good intentions of the King my master.
"The delicacy, which induced you to doubt, whether there
would be any impropriety in communicating to the Ambassador
of France the explanation we had in the course of our late
conference, accords well with the idea I first formed of your
character, and I am pleased with this mark of your attention.
Besides, it appears to me that you may do it freely,
especially as those explanations are founded on principles of
equity and wisdom, for the benefit of the common cause. But
if, hereafter, circumstances demand a more pointed reserve,
by accidents we cannot now foresee, we shall always have time
to agree upon those points, which it may be necessary to keep
secret.
"I am, Sir, with the most sincere attachment, and the most
perfect consideration, your most humble and most obedient
servant,
COUNT DE FLORIDA BLANCA."
I have not yet received from his Excellency the notes mentioned in the
conference, and therefore cannot have the satisfaction of sending
copies of them to Congress by this opportunity.
On the 9th of April, 1780, Sir John Dalrymple arrived here from
Portugal with his lady. On the evening of the 10th I heard of it, and
the next morning sent the following card to the French Ambassador at
Aranjues, viz.
"Mr Jay presents his compliments to his Excellency Count
Montmorin, and informs him that Sir John Dalrymple arrived
here the day before yesterday from Lisbon, and it is said,
intends to be at Aranjues today. What business should call
this gentlemen here, or enable him to obtain license to come,
are questions which I am persuaded will receive from your
Excellency all the attention due to their extent and
importance.
"_Madrid, May 11th, 1780._"
To this I immediately received the following answer on that subject,
viz.
Translation.
"M. de Montmorin received this morning Mr Jay's note, and
thanks him for the information. M. de Montmorin is fully
sensible of the importance of it, and although he is far from
entertaining the least doubt on the sentiments of the Spanish
Ministry, he will not fail to take the precaution to be
informed of everything connected with Sir John Dalrymple's
arrival. He advises Mr Jay to follow the same course. Courts
are so beset with intrigues, that nothing should be
neglected, which may tend to discover them. He repeats that
he has not the slightest cause to suspect the Spanish
Ministry, but on the contrary, has the strongest reasons for
confiding in its integrity and honor. M. de Montmorin begs Mr
Jay to accept his compliments, and to present his respectful
homage to Mrs Jay."
Learning that Sir John had obtained leave to go to France in his way
to England, I apprised Mr Adams of it in a letter of the 26th of
April, 1780, of which the following is an extrac
"Sir John Dalrymple is here; he came from Portugal for the
benefit of his lady's health, as is said. He is now at
Aranjues. He has seen the Imperial Ambassador, the Governor
of the city, Senior Compomanes, the Duke of Alva, and several
others named to him I suppose by Lord Grantham, who I find
was much respected here. He will return through France to
Britain. I shall go to Aranjues the day after tomorrow, and
shall form some judgment of that gentleman's success by the
conduct of the Court towards America."
On waiting on the Count de Florida Blanca, a few days afterwards at
Aranjues, he told me that Sir John had applied to him to obtain from
him permission to go through Spain to France, and to the French
Minister for a passport through that kingdom to England. The
indisposition of his lady was the reason assigned for not going from
Portugal by water. That in conversation, Sir John took occasion to say
several things respecting the war, and the manner of drawing it to a
conclusion. That the Count desired him to reduce what he would wish to
say on that subject to writing, and that Sir John thereupon sent him
a paper, entitled "A Historical Anecdote," of which the following is
a copy.
_A Project of Lord Rochford to prevent the War._
"Before the declaration of France in favor of America, Lord
Rochford, formerly Ambassador in Spain and in France, formed
a project to prevent the war. It was, that England should
propose a great treaty of confederation between France,
Spain, Portugal, and England, the objects of which should be
the three following; the first, a mutual guarantee between
these four powers of their possessions in America and the two
Indies, with a proviso, that a war in Europe should never be
a war in those remote regions on any pretext whatever, fixing
also the number of troops and vessels to be furnished by the
contracting powers against the power that should contravene
the peace in those distant parts. The second object was, to
grant a participation in the commerce of America to France,
Spain, and Portugal, as far as such participation might not
be incompatible with the common interests, and without the
rivalship of English America and England. The third object
was, the adjustment of the contested privileges of the
Americans upon principles just and honorable for them. Lord
Rochford was at that time Secretary of State. He told me,
that the first person to whom he had communicated this
project was the late Prince of Mazarano, Ambassador of Spain,
and that though old and indisposed, he arose and embraced
him, and said, 'Ah! my Lord, what divinity has inspired you?'
Lord Rochford also communicated it to a friend of his, who
was then, and still continues one of the Ministers of the
King of England, who gave it his approbation; but Lord
Rochford soon after quitted the Ministry and retired to the
country, by which accident the project failed of being
presented to the cabinet of the King.
"I have given a relation of this anecdote, because I am one
of the four or five persons who alone know the truth of it,
and because I am of opinion, that it is not yet too late to
revive a project, which will save a million of Christians
from becoming widows and orphans. As to the first object of
such a confederacy, Lord Rochford did not doubt of the
proposition's being accepted by all the powers, because it
was the interest of all to accept it. The losses of France in
the two Indies the last war, and their misfortunes in the
East Indies in the present one, where, in six weeks, they
have lost all they possessed; the losses of the Spaniards in
the last war in the two Indies, and even the stroke the other
day in the Bay of Honduras, by a young captain with a handful
of soldiers; the facility with which Portugal lost the Island
of St Catharine in the Brazils, and the misfortunes of the
English armies the three last years in America, all prove
that France, Spain, Portugal, and England, have their tender
parts in America and the two Indies, and of consequence, that
they have all an interest in a mutual guarantee of their
possessions in those three parts of the world.
"As to the second object of the confederacy, I am sensible,
that the idea of the other three powers participating in the
commerce of America, under the limitation of its not being
incompatible with the common interests of English America and
England, is an idea somewhat vague, and subject to disputes.
But, fortunately for humanity, there are five persons in
those five countries, of characters which render them proper
to draw the outlines of some determinate regulations, which
will admit of no disputes, and may enrich France, Spain, and
Portugal, without impoverishing England and her Colonies. In
America there is Doctor Franklin, perhaps the first genius of
the age, who is well acquainted with the commercial
connexions between America and England; France has her
Comptroller-General, who, from his youth, has been brought up
in the practice of commerce; in Spain, we find M. Campomanes,
who has employed the maturity of his life in studies, that
give him a superiority in discussions of this kind; Portugal
will be assisted by the counsels of the Duke of Braganza, who
has gathered knowledge in almost every field, in courts, in
libraries, and even on the exchanges of the merchants of
Europe; and as for England, she has a Minister who,
thoroughly versed in the true interests of commerce, will not
refuse to America what he has just granted to Ireland.
"As to the third object of the confederation; England, who
much boasts of her own _magna charta_, will make no
difficulty in granting a _magna charta_ to the liberties of
America. Perhaps the best means to expedite this measure
would be to give a _carte blanche_ to Dr Franklin. A generous
confidence is the surest means to secure a generous man.
Spain has two very solid interests in the success of such a
confederacy, and against the independence of America. The
first is, that if English America becomes independent,
Spanish America will be overrun with the contraband of the
Americans thus independent of England. 1. England is bound by
treaties with Spain not to carry on the contraband trade. 2.
She is restrained by the fear of this contraband's drawing a
war upon her in Europe, which was the consequence of it in
the times of Sir Robert Walpole. 3. The dearness of English
and European commodities sets natural bounds to the quantity
of this contraband. But when the Americans are independent,
they will say, first, they are not bound by the treaties of
the English; secondly, they will not be restrained by fear,
being so far from Spain, and having defended themselves
against eighty thousand English soldiers and marines, they
would but little dread the forces of Spain; and thirdly, the
low price of American commodities will cover the Spanish
Colonies with contraband. Indeed, necessity itself will
oblige the Americans either to carry on this contraband, or
to make war on Spanish and Portuguese America and their
Islands. They have neither gold nor silver among themselves,
and without these precious metals, they can neither cultivate
their lands nor carry on commerce. They will only have four
sources from whence to draw them; first, their commerce with
Europe; secondly, pensions from France and Spain; thirdly, a
contraband trade with the Provinces of Spain and Portugal in
the new world; and fourthly, a war in these Provinces.
"While the Americans continue in a state, which the English
call rebellion, their commerce with Europe will be
interrupted by English cruisers. Thus they will draw but a
small quantity of these precious metals from this first
source. The pensions of France and Spain will be much too
inconsiderable to support the agriculture and manufactures of
so extensive a country. Their only remaining source then for
these metals will be in the contraband, or wars with the
Spanish and Portuguese Provinces. To prevent this contraband,
the treaty of confederation might make provision against the
contraband both of the English and Americans. It is a
delicate point for an Englishman to suggest the means, but
were the two nations sincerely disposed for peace, I could in
a quarter of an hour suggest the infallible means.
"Spain has another interest, perhaps still greater, against
the independence of the Americans, and, consequently, in
favor of the treaty in question. The Americans, who will be
able to fly with their sails wherever they please, will make
establishments in New Zealand, the Islands of Otaheite, or
some other Islands in the South Sea, from whence they will
torment the Spaniards in that sea, and even the English, the
French, the Portuguese, and the Dutch, in the East India
Seas. Being independent, no treaty will prevent their making
such establishments. They may make them consistent with the
laws of nations. Captain Cook in his last printed voyages
says, there are fortyseven thousand seafaring people in the
Island of Otaheite alone; and Captain Wallis, who discovered
those Islands, told me at Lisbon a few days ago, that the
inhabitants of Otaheite went to the mast-head of the English
ships, and ran on the yard-arms as well in three days' time
as the English mariners, and gave me two reasons for it. The
first was, that living on fish, they are all seafaring
people; and the second, that those who wear no shoes are
always the most dexterous in mounting the upper parts of a
ship. Captain Cook also in the same voyage gives a
description of a port and city in New Zealand, which might in
a few weeks be made impregnable, and one needs only look at
the shape of the Islands in the South Seas, in the maps we
have of them, to be convinced that they have no small number
of these impregnable ports.
"I show myself as much a friend to Spain, to France, to
Portugal and Holland, as to England, in disclosing the
following idea, which may have escaped others. Heretofore it
was impossible to go to the South Seas with any safety, but
in the months of December and January, and by the dreadful
latitudes round Cape Horn. But the late discoveries of
Captain Cook and other Englishmen have demonstrated the
practicability of going thither in every month of the year,
round the Cape of Good Hope, and the fine latitude of New
Zealand, and in almost the same time; the one being a passage
of four and the other of five months. Because the same west
wind, which blows almost the whole of the year, and retards
the vessels passing by Cape Horn, carries them with rapidity
by the Cape of Good Hope and New Zealand. Hence it follows,
that when the Americans quarrel with Spain, perhaps on the
subject of the contraband, they will send their ships on the
coast of Chili from their establishments in the South Seas,
by the latitudes of New Zealand, and with the west winds,
which always blow in that quarter. This is a voyage of only
five weeks; for Captain Cook in one voyage, and Captain
Fourneaux in another, went from New Zealand to Cape Horn in
less time, and the journal of the winds annexed to the voyage
of Captain Cook shews, that the west winds in those latitudes
bear to the east the proportion of ten to one. When their
vessels are on the coasts of Chili, they will take the
advantage of the land wind, which, blowing constantly from
south to north, will carry them along the coasts of Chili and
Peru. With this wind they will go in fourteen days to the Bay
of Panama, and in the course of this voyage they will ravage
the sea coasts, and make prizes of all the vessels they meet.
The naval force of Spain at Lima will not have it in their
power to hinder them, for the same south wind, which will
push the Americans forward, will prevent the fleets of Spain
going to meet them. From the Bay of Panama they will return
by the great wind of the tropics, which never fails blowing
from east to west, either to their settlements in the South
Seas, or to sell their prizes in the seas of China or India,
from whence they will perhaps again return with new vessels,
newly manned, to repeat their ravages. Their return will
either be by New Zealand in coming from the Indies, or by the
latitude of forty north in coming from China. In this last
case they will fall on Mexico, and profiting of the land
winds which always blow there from north to the Bay of
Panama, they will ravage Mexico as before they ravaged Chili
and Peru. From the Bay of Panama they will return by the
great tropic wind, either to their own homes in the South
Seas, or to the seas of Asia to renew a war, insulting,
tormenting, and without remedy.
"On the other hand, when at war with England, France,
Portugal, or Holland, they will direct their course from
their establishments in the South Seas, and fall upon the
possessions of those powers in the East Indies. They will
have two great routes to go and return by; the one to the
west of New Zealand, the other by the Islands between China
and New Holland, and in this they will have as many passages
as there are Islands. Thence follows the impossibility of
waylaying their vessels, either going or on their return.
These consequences may all be prevented by the treaty
proposed by Lord Rochford, in which it might be stipulated
that these Islands shall forever belong to their present
inhabitants and their posterity, for certainly the nation who
shall first possess herself of them will command the commerce
of the South Seas and those of Asia.
"Europe, wishing for the independence of America, resembles a
man asleep on ice, and not sensible that ice thaws, and
therefore to give the greater weight to the confederation,
Holland and Denmark, who have interests in both the new
worlds, might be invited to become contracting parties to
those articles of treaty, which regard the mutual guarantee.