this card and the man you ultimately came to know as Jack Ruby were the
same person?
Mr. WALDO. To the very best of my belief and knowledge. At the time
he handed me a card, he was wearing a hat, and when I saw him in the
corridor on Sunday the 24th after his arrest he was not wearing a hat,
but the man looked to be the same, and as I have stated, when he handed
me the card, he identified himself verbally as Jack Ruby.
Mr. HUBERT. You don’t have the card today?
Mr. WALDO. No; unfortunately that seems to have been among several
things that have disappeared.
Mr. HUBERT. As far as you know then you would say that Jack Ruby was at
the police department approximately an hour or an hour and a half on
that afternoon--you can’t tell whether it was more than that, but you
would say it was not less?
Mr. WALDO. Yes; that’s true.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, can you tell us anything about the security
arrangements or identification arrangements that were in effect
throughout the whole period, that is, from the time of the President’s
assassination on forward--in the jail, I’m talking about?
Mr. WALDO. In the jail--no, I went directly, as is stated in this
transcript, the report, I went directly from the Trade Mart to Dallas
Police Headquarters on the afternoon of November 22 within a matter of
30 minutes after we had learned that the President was shot. In fact, I
was on the Stemmons Freeway passing the resort motel called “La Cabana”
at the moment that the car radio reported the President is dead.
When I arrived at Dallas Police Headquarters, I was the first reporter
of any medium, so far as I know, certainly there was no other in
evidence--to reach the third floor. No one attempted to stop me or ask
for any identification at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any identification on your person?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir; I had a badge--I have it with me in this book, if
it’s of any interest to see it, merely identifying “Dallas, November
22, President Kennedy’s Visit,” which I was wearing on my lapel.
Mr. HUBERT. It was a press identification card in connection with the
visit?
Mr. WALDO. That’s right, and the offices of the hierarchy of the Dallas
Police Department are located on the third floor, were almost deserted,
since Chief Curry, Deputy Chief Stevenson and others of the staff had
either been assigned to the Presidential motorcade or to the Trade
Mart, or in the case of Chief Curry, were invited guests or to have
been invited guests at that luncheon. The man who was in the building
in the offices, the highest ranking officer to whom I was directed by
one of the secretaries, was Capt. Glenn King, who has subsequently been
identified to me as in charge of public relations of the Dallas Police
Department. I walked into Captain King’s office--is this of interest?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. WALDO. I walked into Captain King’s office and identified myself
by name and newspaper and immediately noticed a fleeting expression on
his face, which sometimes we who work in Fort Worth and have dealings
with Dallas officials, have come to recognize, most particularly
when something has taken place in Dallas which may give unfavorable
publicity to that city, and before I could finish my question, Captain
King interrupted and very courteously said, “Mr. Waldo, we know
absolutely nothing here. We have heard rumors that there were some
shots. We do not know where the shots came from or who they were aimed
at, if anybody, or if anybody was hit. We don’t know anything.”
I could not help but assume that this was what in the vernacular might
be called a brushoff, since in several open unoccupied offices and
within hearing distance as I was speaking to him, there were police
radio receivers turned on. Therefore, I had to assume that he sitting
there must have been informed of the events.
Mr. HUBERT. And this was approximately at 1:35 or 1:40, wasn’t it?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Because you said you heard the announcement of the
President’s death en route to the police department, and that was at
1:30?
Mr. WALDO. No.
Mr. HUBERT. The announcement of the President’s death was at 1:30, was
it not?
Mr. WALDO. I thought, and I could be mistaken and I’m sure you’re
in a better position after all your investigation, I was under the
impression that it was earlier than that, that it was approximately
1:25--yes, about 1:30 or 1:35.
Mr. HUBERT. In any case, it had been broadcast over the public radio
that the President was dead, at the time you spoke to Captain King and
he told you what you just stated?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir. I don’t believe anything of significance happened
between that and the time that I noticed a little flurry of activity.
I should say, incidentally, that in the interim, which would be
approximately 35 to 40 minutes during which time I was talking to
my desk, I might add that the girls in the office were extremely
cooperative. One of the girls even said, “Well, you’ll want to be in
here,” the pressroom being at the far end of the third floor corridor
from there, “Just use my desk. I’ll move away. Use my telephone.”
I had talked to my desk at the Star-Telegram, and then I noticed a
little flurry of activity, and as I say, during this time several
of the high ranking officers, none of whom I knew by name at that
time, had come in, and I asked a girl who had been standing with
them in Captain King’s office, as I recall, just a few minutes, and
then came out, “What’s going on?” and her answer was, “They found a
rifle.” I asked, “Where?” and she said, “On the roof of the School
Book Depository Building.” Of course, I stress this is secondhand
information. She is giving it from what she heard from a high ranking
official who undoubtedly was told by somebody else. In any case, that
information was telephoned to my newspaper and I believe was used in at
least one edition. Later it was officially stated, of course, that the
rifle had been found on the sixth floor.
I think it is probably worth mentioning that I was present at the time
that Officer McDonald and the other detectives brought the man who was
subsequently identified to me as Lee Harvey Oswald in. In fact, by
then there were two Dallas radio reporters and I cannot tell you who
they were or what they represented. We were moving too fast at that
time. Those were the only others. The three of us interviewed Officer
McDonald in the hall immediately after he had delivered Oswald into the
hands of the people in homicide. In fact, blood was still trickling
down McDonald’s chin from the cut lip where he said he had been struck
by Oswald, and at that time he gave us a version of the capture of
Oswald, which was substantially in all details but one as it has
subsequently been repeated on numerous occasions, including the sworn
testimony at Jack Ruby’s murder trial.
The one difference was that at the trial and in other accounts that
I have heard, it has been stated that when the house lights in the
Texas Theatre were turned up and the officers approached Oswald, that
he jumped to his feet, crying, “This is it!” and reached for the gun
in his belt. Officer McDonald, at the time of that interview in the
hall, moments after he had delivered Oswald into custody, was that what
Oswald said when he jumped up was, “It’s all over!” That’s the only
difference.
Mr. HUBERT. I assume that shortly after that the press began to crowd
up into the third floor?
Mr. WALDO. They did indeed, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Not merely the press, but other news media?
Mr. WALDO. And people who were not news media. Access to that third
floor for a number of hours thereafter appeared to be enormously easy.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you describe that--I know that you are describing it in
that way--a negative way--but to put it this way, were there no guards
on the elevators or the other means of access to the third floor for a
number of hours?
Mr. WALDO. That’s correct, sir; there were not.
Mr. HUBERT. Subsequently there were?
Mr. WALDO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What did the guards do by way of maintaining security?
Mr. WALDO. The elevators in the Dallas Police Department open into a
fairly large square area--I say “large” in comparison to the width of
the corridor that runs out, and eventually two uniformed, I believed,
motorcycle patrolmen were placed in that open space facing the
elevators and at least theoretically, and I will explain that in a
moment, required identification, meaning press credentials of some sort
from anyone who attempted to get off that elevator and into the hall,
unless it was naturally someone accompanied by an officer, as in the
case of the wife and mother of Lee Oswald and so on.
I personally as late as 8 p.m. that night, and again this is
approximate, but I would say about 8 p.m. saw two men get off the
elevator and walk right past the guards, neither of them having any
badge on and not be challenged or stopped. I believe but I’m not
certain that it was one of these two men, who 5 to 10 minutes later,
came up where I was standing talking to a European reporter from the
“Agence France Press,” and asked “What’s the latest, what’s going on?”,
which I might add is just not the way a newsman would ask a colleague.
In fact, he wouldn’t do that.
Mr. HUBERT. Your impression is that those two men were not newspapermen?
Mr. WALDO. My impression is that they were not, and I am certain
from my own visual evidence in any case, that they walked out of the
elevator past the two guards without being challenged.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where they went?
Mr. WALDO. It was impossible to tell. By that time there were 250,
probably, people jammed into that corridor.
Mr. HUBERT. What were the circumstances under which the viewing of
Oswald in the assembly room on Friday were held?
Mr. WALDO. Well, at what I would judge to be approximately 10 to 10:30
p.m., Captain Fritz and District Attorney Wade came out of the homicide
office into the third floor corridor and Captain Fritz, whose voice
never carries--he speaks in a hoarse whisper most of the time--tried
to say something, and there were immediate shouts of “We can’t hear
you, we can’t hear you” from people only 15 feet away. So then Mr.
Wade took over and I was close enough to hear him say that Oswald had
been formally charged with the assassination of President Kennedy, but
immediately there were cries from people two or three rows, if that’s
the word, behind me in this jammed, packed mass, “Henry, we can’t hear
you. We can’t hear you. Can’t we hold this someplace else?”
He then conferred with Captain Fritz and by then Chief Curry had
moved in, maybe Chief Curry was there all the time--I didn’t notice
him--but the three conferred and then Chief Curry, who can on occasion
speak with considerable force and volume, called out and everybody
heard this, “All right, we’ll set it up in the Police Assembly Hall
in the basement for Mr. Wade to make his announcement, if that’s what
you want?” Or--approximately those words, and then there was another
momentary conference between the district attorney and the two police
officials, and Chief Curry added, and I am almost certain that no one
requested this--it was a voluntary statement on his part, “And I’ll
have the prisoner brought down for you, too, if you like.”
So, immediately there was movement, because the TV people had to
start getting their equipment down, all of which of course took a
considerable time. I might add first that Curry said, “We can do it
in about 20 minutes,” but while waiting for the TV cameras to be
transferred down and set up properly, it took more than an hour.
Mr. HUBERT. What security measures or identification measures were used
to start security as to the assembly room, as to who would go in it?
Mr. WALDO. None whatever that I observed. I myself walked down the
stairs, which faced the elevators on the third floor, to the basement.
The basement is also the site of the police booking office. People
were being brought in or coming in to inquire about relatives, I
presume. That seemed to be the general tenor of it, and were not being
kept away, and peering curiously into this police assembly room where
everything was being set up.
Mr. HUBERT. There were no guards at the entrance of the assembly room?
Mr. WALDO. None that I saw, sir; no.
Mr. HUBERT. So that everybody got into the assembly room who wanted to
get in, and Oswald was brought down shortly thereafter?
Mr. WALDO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand that the interview was of very short duration?
Mr. WALDO. It was, and it was preceded by a very stern warning from
Chief Curry--that any undue movement to crowd in on the prisoner or
shove cameras forward or to clamor on furniture, would immediately
cause the interview to be cut short and he said, “The prisoner will be
taken away and will not be brought back; is that clear?” He said, “I
want everybody to stay where he is.”
The interview was very brief. The thing that sticks most in my mind,
considering the fact that before Oswald was brought down District
Attorney Wade had stated in some detail how Oswald was taken before a
justice of the peace and formally charged with the assassination of
President Kennedy, that when the prisoner in the assembly room was
asked, “Why did you kill the President?” He replied, “I haven’t killed
anyone and no one has even mentioned to me anything about the President
except you people.”
Mr. HUBERT. Who was it asked him the question, “Why did you kill the
President?”
Mr. WALDO. Gosh, I couldn’t tell you.
Mr. HUBERT. It was some newsman?
Mr. WALDO. It was a newsman; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not see Ruby in that group?
Mr. WALDO. I did not see Ruby that evening; no, sir. I do recall, but
only because it was called to my attention afterward, that at the tail
end of the interview, a man with a loud voice was calling to Wade to
come over and say something in a microphone, and I do recall distinctly
that this voice cut through the din with remarkable stentorian quality,
and of course it has been testified at Jack Ruby’s trial that this
was he, acting for a friend at a radio station who wanted to put a
statement by Wade on tape for subsequent broadcast.
Mr. HUBERT. That was while Oswald was still in the room?
Mr. WALDO. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. That was after Oswald had left?
Mr. WALDO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What caused the end of the Oswald interview?
Mr. WALDO. As I recall it, following what could have been anywhere
from 3 to 5 minutes of questions, Chief Curry stepped forward and
said, “That’s enough. Take him back.”
Mr. HUBERT. Was there any violation of his regulation about crowding
and so forth?
Mr. WALDO. Not seriously. There was a little sort of press forward, but
not seriously.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean, did he indicate that that’s why he was ending the
interview?
Mr. WALDO. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, turning finally to November 24, I think you’ve told
us how you got down there, and your statement indicates that you were
standing on the outside of the building at the Commerce Street entrance?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Along with a number of other newsmen, when a Lieutenant
Butler invited the press people into the jail; is that correct?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir; with one exception. There was not a number of
other newsmen, there were only, as I recall, three of us standing out
on that sidewalk at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. You had a press identification on you then?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir; and when Butler, and pardon me--let me put this
in--the armored vehicle had by that time been backed into the ramp, and
there was some comment among the three of us standing on the sidewalk,
the curious fact that the vehicle which was too high to go down the
ramp, was being left there, when a smaller armored vehicle had been
brought at the same time and was parked by the curb. Lieutenant Butler
stuck his head out around this vehicle and said, “Come on down.” There
were two motorcycle policemen who were two of the same policemen who
had been standing guard duty on the third floor. They had over the
period from the 22d through the 23d, they had several shifts of them.
They were two of the same, and as I approached one of them in this
comparatively narrow space between the column that forms the frame
of the ramp and the side of the vehicle where he was standing, he
grinned at me and recognized me immediately and said, “How are you this
morning? I know you, but I still have to ask you for your credentials.”
So, I got out my credentials. I had the badge on, but beyond that he
required my Department of Public Safety identification.
Mr. HUBERT. That was even after Lieutenant Butler invited you in?
Mr. WALDO. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been seeking to get in prior to that and had been
denied?
Mr. WALDO. No.
Mr. HUBERT. It was just that you had arrived at that time?
Mr. WALDO. Well, we had arrived some time earlier and had seen the
preparations. I had gone upstairs and checked Chief Curry’s office
and had been told that it would be half to three-quarters of an hour
yet before the prisoner would be removed. This was at the time that
I arrived over there on Commerce Street from the hotel, and that
everybody would be notified before there was any movement, so since it
was a pleasant morning, we were standing out on the sidewalk--the three
of us.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you told it was going to be by elevator down into the
basement and then through the basement ramps out Commerce Street?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you that, sir?
Mr. WALDO. As I recall it, it was Lieutenant Butler himself, who was
on the third floor at the time I went up, and I would like to for
whatever it’s worth, add something at this point. Lieutenant Butler
was since, oh, probably 2:30 on the afternoon of the 22d of November,
the man whom I had sought out on every occasion that I wanted to learn
something about developments, whenever I could find him, because he was
a man of remarkable equanimity, poise, and very cooperative within the
authorization that he had, and the first thing----
Mr. HUBERT. You mean he would give you more news than anybody else?
Mr. WALDO. He was more able to understand what was wanted and he was
always in on, apparently, on high-level information, and if it was for
release, he would be the one who would have it and be most willing
apparently to give it. This is a thing that happens in circumstances
like this. A reporter picks out a man, tries him out, and if he finds
that he’s cooperative the first time, he tries to stick to him, because
by that time the official recognizes his face.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you find that other officials were not so cooperative?
Mr. WALDO. I would say, yes, to that with reference to the 22d and part
of the 23d. By Saturday afternoon, the 23d, everybody seemed to be
pretty accessible and pretty willing to answer questions. What I wanted
to say about Lieutenant Butler was that this almost stolid poise, or
perhaps phlegmatic poise is a better word, that I had noticed all
through even the most hectic times of the 22d and the 23d, appeared
to have deserted him completely on the morning of the 24th. He was an
extremely nervous man, so nervous that when I was standing asking him a
question after I had entered the ramp and gotten down to the basement
area, just moments before Oswald was brought down, he was standing
profile to me and I noticed his lips trembling as he listened and
waited for my answer. It was simply a physical characteristic. I had
by then spent enough hours talking to this man so that it struck me as
something totally out of character. Now, he may merely have had a bad
night.
Mr. HUBERT. At that time, had the movement of Oswald begun or was it
known that he was coming?
Mr. WALDO. It was imminent at that time--it was imminent.
Mr. HUBERT. The words, “Here he comes”--those famous words--had not yet
been uttered?
Mr. WALDO. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long prior to the time Oswald was brought down did
Butler invite you into the basement?
Mr. WALDO. I’d say the time lapse there was 20 to 25 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate to you that the time was getting imminent
and that you must come in?
Mr. WALDO. That we could come in, that we should come in.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say to you by way of indicating that the
movement was about to take place?
Mr. WALDO. As I recall, when he stuck his head out and around the
vehicle and looked to see who was there, he just said, “Come on down
now.”
Mr. HUBERT. He didn’t say that it was imminent, but you construed it as
such?
Mr. WALDO. Well, after we had passed the scrutiny at the ramp entrance
and continued on down, I followed my custom and immediately sought him
out and asked him, “Are they just about ready to move him?” and he
said, “I understand he’ll be brought down shortly, you’ll have notice.”
By the way, I recall one other minor discrepancy that exists in that
report. At this particular time and thought we’re talking about now,
I believe it even states in that report that when I entered the ramp,
there were several police vehicles parked; is that in there?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; I think it does say that.
Mr. WALDO. That is incorrect.
Mr. HUBERT. On page 3, the last paragraph says, “Waldo said he noticed
in the ramp three police cars were parked in a straight line, one
behind each other, facing toward Commerce Street.”
Mr. WALDO. Yes; that is some misunderstanding on the part of the
gentleman who took the transcript. There was no vehicle in the ramp
at the time that I entered except the armored vehicle which had been
parked right at the mouth of the ramp.
Mr. HUBERT. And behind the armored vehicle, there were none when you
went in?
Mr. WALDO. When I first went down. It was approximately 8 to 10 minutes
after I had been down in the ramp area, and there were then a hundred
or more representatives of news media in that area.
Behind us, and now let me see if I can get this straight--the ramp of
course goes from north to south, from Main to Commerce, and for perhaps
half its length, one quarter at each end, there is nothing but blank
wall on each side of the ramp. For the other half, the middle half, and
on the--don’t take this down and tell me the direction?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, if it’s pertinent we want it.
Mr. WALDO. Well, Main is north of Commerce--right?
Mr. HUBERT. It would be the east.
Mr. WALDO. Yes--but on the west side is the entrance to the building
and the jail elevators and so on, and on the east side is a parking--a
large submerged parking area, and it was 8 to 10 minutes after I had
gotten downstairs when they began what appeared to be at first a
quite confused movement--several detectives, plainclothes officers
got into police cars parked down there and started to move them, with
what appeared, and in fact I commented on this to a colleague, an
unnecessary amount of jerking movement, lack of coordination so that
one almost ran into the other and they were backing and filling and
nobody could figure what they were doing with them, and meanwhile
Butler, I believe it was, or someone was telling us all to get back out
of the way, and finally they maneuvered these three cars into place one
behind the other back of the armored vehicle.
Mr. HUBERT. How much time before the shooting did they back the armored
car into the Commerce Street entrance?
Mr. WALDO. Oh, that would have been--let’s see--I arrived over there
about 9:30–10 or shortly thereafter it was that the car was brought in.
Mr. HUBERT. And then you went in at Butler’s suggestion or invitation
about 25 minutes prior to the shooting?
Mr. WALDO. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. And then the cars were moved in behind the armored car
about 10 minutes before the shooting?
Mr. WALDO. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see a car go out the Main Street entrance around
that time?
Mr. WALDO. No, sir; I did not. It could have happened and I didn’t see
it, but I certainly didn’t.
Come to think of it, I don’t believe it could have happened without my
seeing it, considering the physical setup over there, however, that’s
not important.
Might I add that at the time that I entered the ramp area, the crowd
of people standing along the south side of Commerce Street had grown
to about 200. It was maybe 100 when I first arrived there, and this I
took to be due to the fact that there appeared to be, from what I heard
and cars passing stopped for traffic lights that had their radios on,
broadcast announcements every few minutes that Oswald was going to be
moved soon.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know if all those people had been moved over to the
opposite side of Commerce Street by the police?