had with him was concerned mainly with an introduction and was he going
to be able to get in and so forth and so forth.
Since Danny indicated that he knew him or had met him before, I
agreed--well, we agreed to let him in, and normally of course we
wouldn’t give someone the run of the station, but it had been indicated
anyway that he knew people on the staff. He had advertised with us,
among other things, and so he was going to get in, and then he called
back.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after?
Mr. DUNCAN. Well, I was just going to say--a few minutes--and exactly,
I couldn’t tell. I would say it was probably not more than 10 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you fix the time of each one of those calls?
Mr. DUNCAN. Not very definitely. It’s very difficult for me to do.
Mr. HUBERT. Except that you know they were before 1 o’clock?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that they were 10 minutes apart?
Mr. DUNCAN. I would say they were approximately 10 minutes apart.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was on the second one that he told you that he could
get the interview with Wade?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes. He said that he was there and that Henry Wade was
there and did I want to talk with the District Attorney Wade, and at
this time I was very anxious to do that because we were understaffed. I
was alone in the newsroom. I knew that something was going on, but in
attempting to get facts, I had tried to get into city hall by calling
every other place I knew over there and had been unable to reach Wade,
so I was very anxious to do that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you suggest to Ruby on the first call that you would
like an interview with Wade, or was it his idea?
Mr. DUNCAN. To the best of my recollection, the conversation with Wade
was his idea. I may have said something about perhaps in cutting the
telephone conversation short, but I was busy in trying to get into the
city hall by telephone to get some information or something, but I did
not ask him specifically to find Wade or anyone else for me, and I
honestly do not know whether or not I mentioned it to him.
Mr. HUBERT. But when he called you the second time, the purpose of that
call was to tell you that he had Wade available?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was Wade immediately available?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes, he was--Jack said that Wade was on another telephone.
He asked me did I want to talk to Henry Wade and I said “Yes”, and he
said, “Just a second. He’s on another phone with somebody from New
York, and I’ll get him,” and then in a few moments Wade did come to the
telephone.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know where Ruby and Wade were talking from?
Mr. DUNCAN. They were talking, according to Ruby, from city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what part of the city hall?
Mr. DUNCAN. No, I do not. After awhile--well, at the time I guessed
and I would still assume it to be at least relatively correct, that
they were in the basement of the city hall somewhere around the records
office or the assembly room that was used for press conferences at that
time--during the assassination coverage, but that is an assumption.
Mr. HUBERT. When he did put Wade on the phone, of course you taped the
interview with Wade, and you say that that tape is still available,
right?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes, it is.
Mr. HUBERT. Then it was about three-quarters of an hour after that,
that Ruby came over with the sandwiches and so forth?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And stayed about 30 minutes?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes; 30 to 45 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he with you all that time or what was he doing?
Mr. DUNCAN. He came in the newsroom door about the same time--or
after--he came through the newsroom door with Russ Knight who had gone
over to the city hall with a portable tape record for me to attempt to
get something--to get an interview there, and when I had been unable to
reach Henry Wade I had asked Russ if he would go over and he said he
would. He left and then it was after his departure that Ruby called and
I eventually talked to him. They arrived at the newsroom door at the
same time.
In talking with Russ later, I believe he said they didn’t arrive at the
front door at the same time, but anyway they came into the newsroom
together. He stayed in the newsroom the entire time, to the best of my
recollection, until he was actually ready to leave. Then Russ went down
to let him out, I believe. At least, in talking with Russ afterward I
remember Russ saying something about he and Ruby had chatted on the way
out or in the hall outside the newsroom.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember how he was dressed?
Mr. DUNCAN. He had a dark suit on--a hat, white shirt, tie, and I
believe he was carrying an overcoat--I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. Of course, he brought the sandwiches over?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes, and he had the sandwiches.
Mr. HUBERT. He was definitely there during your 2 o’clock broadcast?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes; he was.
Mr. HUBERT. I assume that your 2 o’clock broadcast began exactly at 2
a.m.?
Mr. DUNCAN. Exactly.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did it last?
Mr. DUNCAN. Normally, we run 4½-minute newscasts. This could have been
as long as 5 or 6 because the format changed during the assassination
coverage, but I would say that.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he in the broadcasting room with you at that time?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes; he was.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember mentioning his name?
Mr. DUNCAN. No, no--as a matter of fact, to be dead certain I would
have to listen to the Soundscriber.
Mr. HUBERT. You do have a Soundscriber of that broadcast at 2 o’clock?
Mr. DUNCAN. Right; we have. We maintain a 24-hour taping service at the
station.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that Soundscriber going to be kept permanently?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes, they are kept in storage.
Mr. HUBERT. All of them or just these particular ones?
Mr. DUNCAN. No, this is done constantly. We have 24 hours a day every
day tape recordings.
Mr. HUBERT. And how long a period of time do you keep those things?
Mr. DUNCAN. This--I am not sure of. This I would have to find out from
the station engineering staff. I am certain though that long after
others are gone, the news covering the assassination will be kept and
that they are available now.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about a sort of an instrument called
an Alpawna Box, the word being spelled A-l-p-a-w-n-a?
Mr. DUNCAN. No; I have never heard of it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby in the course of any conversation with you on the
telephone or otherwise mention the famous Weissman ad, are you familiar
with the Weissman ad?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes; I am. I do not remember. I don’t believe he did
because I probably would have remembered after Ruby’s further
involvement, but 1 do not believe he did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate anything to you which would suggest that
he was concerned that public opinion might place the blame for the
assassination upon the people of the Jewish faith?
Mr. DUNCAN. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he talk in any way about the fact that he was a Jew or
of the question of Jews or any aspect of that kind?
Mr. DUNCAN. No, not at all. As a matter of fact, I am certain he didn’t
because I remember being surprised, well, not surprised, but feeling
it was a new piece of information when I learned later he was Jewish.
The term “Ruby,” and I did not connect the thing with any physical
characteristic at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you familiar with a pamphlet called “Heroism”?
Mr. DUNCAN. Only in a hearsay sense.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Ruby make any comments about that pamphlet that you now
identify the way you have, on the night in question?
Mr. DUNCAN. Not to me.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he do so to anyone else--do you know?
Mr. DUNCAN. I understand from talking to Russ Knight that he did, as
I mentioned, later when they were chatting in the hall at the time of
Ruby’s departure, Russ told me that Ruby gave him a copy of a Life Line
speech or pamphlet entitled “Heroism” and asked him to read it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see that?
Mr. DUNCAN. No, I did not. I didn’t see the pamphlet or the exchange or
did not actually know anything about it until talking with Russ some
time after.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you ever seen or spoken to Ruby after he left that
night?
Mr. DUNCAN. No; well, I saw him during the coverage when I was at the
police department covering the assassination--that’s all.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ask for any kind of a pass, a press pass from you?
Mr. DUNCAN. No; he did not. He didn’t ask for anything.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have any press pass from KLIF, to your knowledge?
Mr. DUNCAN. No; he didn’t--not at all.
Mr. HUBERT. You would know if he did have?
Mr. DUNCAN. Probably--I should think so. Press passes were short at
that time, and at that time the only press passes available to my
knowledge were the press passes that were connected with the Kennedy
visit and not the later Dallas police press passes that were issued
after the assassination.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your impression of Ruby’s general attitude that
night?
Mr. DUNCAN. Well, repeating my trial testimony--this was the first time
I had met him, so I had no real relative gage, but he did not seem out
of character. He seemed--he was excited in the sense that everyone was
excited. He seemed to me to be a highstrung individual, a quick sort of
individual, but he did not seem overly excited and did not seem out of
character.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he seem to be grieving?
Mr. DUNCAN. No, no; he was not grieving. If anything--if anything, he
was--well, I use the word “happy” guardedly, but he was if anything
happy that evidence was piling up against Oswald and that he had been
charged, and the mounting of a case against him.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you get the impression that he himself was sort of
getting a kick or a charge out of being close to the police and the
news development of this historic event?
Mr. DUNCAN. Oh, I think so. I think he was to a certain degree. Of
course, we run into this sort of thing all the time. Of course, the
event was much more important, but I would not say that he seemed
any more excited about having an “in” or being closer to it than the
average person we run into at a shooting or a major accident, who
sidles up to you and tries to become involved.
Mr. HUBERT. How did he explain giving you the sandwiches?
Mr. DUNCAN. As I remember there was no definite explanation. It was
simply that “I figured you guys would be hungry and I brought these up
to you,” with this type of an explanation, if it is one.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate to you that the sandwiches had originally
been intended for the police but that he found that they couldn’t use
them and he therefore brought them to you?
Mr. DUNCAN. No; from the very beginning--from the telephone calls and
afterward he indicated to me that they were originally intended for us,
and the reason he had them at the police station was the fact that he
had been unable to get in.
Mr. HUBERT. To get into where?
Mr. DUNCAN. To get into our place and then had gone over to look for
one of their newsmen. His indication, and I don’t know about his
whereabouts before that, or he didn’t mention them, but his indication
was he came to our station first.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you notice whether he had an overcoat on?
Mr. DUNCAN. I believe he was carrying an overcoat.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you tell us what color it was?
Mr. DUNCAN. It seems to me that it was a dark gray or light brown--a
muted dark tone.
Mr. HUBERT. Is there anything else you wish to add?
Mr. DUNCAN. I don’t believe so.
Mr. HUBERT. I don’t think there has been any conversation between us
off the record--that has not been brought out on the record?
Mr. DUNCAN. I don’t believe so. It seems to me the only thing we talked
about were these telephone calls and that’s in.
Mr. HUBERT. And that’s in the record?
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I think we did talk off the record by telephone, but that
has been developed fully and is now on the record.
Mr. DUNCAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir, I believe that is all and I thank you very
much for coming.
Mr. DUNCAN. Glad to help you out.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, thank you.
TESTIMONY OF GARNETT CLAUD HALLMARK
The testimony of Garnett Claud Hallmark was taken at 10:35 a.m. on June
27, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr.,
assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Mr. Garnett Claud Hallmark.
Mr. Hallmark, my name is Leon D. Hubert. I am a member of the advisory
staff of the general counsel on the President’s Commission. Under
the provisions of Executive Order 11130 dated November 29, 1963, and
the joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure
adopted by the President’s Commission in conformance with the Executive
order and the joint resolution, I have been authorized to take this
sworn deposition from you. I state to you now that the general nature
of the Commission’s inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon
the facts relative to the assassination of President Kennedy and the
subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular as to you,
Mr. Hallmark, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine that
facts you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts
you may know about the general inquiry and about Jack Ruby and his
operations and so forth. Now, I think you appear today here by virtue
of a letter written to you by J. Lee Rankin, general counsel of the
staff of the President’s Commission, who asked you to come; is that
correct?
Mr. HALLMARK. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. I believe also the letter was probably dated the 22d of
June 1964, and I ask you when you received it?
Mr. HALLMARK. I received it the 23d--it was stamped the 23d.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s Tuesday?
Mr. HALLMARK. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Well then the 3 days required for notice have elapsed. I
will ask you if you will stand and raise your right hand and I will
administer the oath. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are
about to give about these matters will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your name, please, sir?
Mr. HALLMARK. Garnett Claud Hallmark.
Mr. HUBERT. And your residence?
Mr. HALLMARK. 2831 Quanah.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you spell that?
Mr. HALLMARK (spelling). Q-u-a-n-a-h.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s in Dallas?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Mr. HALLMARK. I am employed by Allright Auto Parks, Inc., as a general
manager of the Dallas operation.
Mr. HUBERT. Do they operate several parking lots in the city?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been so employed?
Mr. HALLMARK. Eight years.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a man by the name of Jack Ruby?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you known him?
Mr. HALLMARK. I have known him, it will almost be 4 years now--over 3
years.
Mr. HUBERT. I have previously handed to you a 5-page document and for
the purpose of identification, I have marked the first page on the
right margin as follows: “Dallas, Texas, June 27, 1964, Exhibit No. 1
of the Deposition of Garnett C. Hallmark,” and I have signed my name
below that and on each of the following four pages I have placed my
initials in the lower right-hand corner of each page.
I asked you to read that so that you would be able to answer the
questions I am now about to ask you, and that is whether or not this
Exhibit No. 1, which purports to be an interview of you by FBI Agent
Arthur Carter on December 11, 1963, is a fair and correct report of the
interview that you did have with the FBI agent?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes; it’s a good account.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you any corrections or modifications or changes to
make in this?
Mr. HALLMARK. No; not at all.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I want to know whether or not you had seen Jack Ruby
on the 22d of November?
Mr. HALLMARK. No; I didn’t see him.
Mr. HUBERT. But on the 23d, I think, you say in your statement that you
did see him?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was that at the Nichols Bros. parking lot right next door
to your lot next door to the Carousel Club?
Mr. HALLMARK. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you have a man named Huey Reeves, or did, who
worked there?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes; Reeves still works for me. We have lost that
location but Reeves still works for me.
Mr. HUBERT. As general manager of this operation are you present at
times in the different locations that you operate?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. On the 23d, you were, however, at the operation called
Nichols Bros.?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Which was a part of Allright Parking?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. One of the questions I want to ask you is how you fixed the
time of seeing him, but I noticed that on page 2, the second paragraph,
you indicate that you saw him at about 3:05 p.m. You established that
time because you knew that you had a schedule that would require you to
leave at 3:15, and that that enabled you to fix the time.
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. I will ask you to elaborate to this extent--tell us what
kind of schedule was that?
Mr. HALLMARK. Well, first of all--of course, I had gone to this
location to relieve this Tom Brown who is mentioned there, and just to
let him get off and out of the office long enough to stretch his legs
and get a cup of coffee, and I allowed myself approximately 30 minutes
for that. I wanted to be at a location on Elm Street, 1920 Elm, at just
about 3:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that one of your parking lots?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And your schedule called for you to be there at 3:30?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. To do that you figured you would have to leave at 3:15?
Mr. HALLMARK. I wanted to leave at 3:15 to give myself plenty of time.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it your impression then that you saw Ruby about 10
minutes prior to the time you scheduled yourself to leave?
Mr. HALLMARK. He first entered the garage at probably--at 2:50.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you talk to him then?
Mr. HALLMARK. Well, he drove into the garage before I had ever gone
into the office, and he parked at the place we normally let him park
his car and got out and said he wanted to use the phone, that he was
acting like a reporter. Of course, I granted him permission to walk in
our cashier’s office and use the phone.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he further identify his activities as “acting like a
reporter”?
Mr. HALLMARK. No; he didn’t elaborate on that.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean, did he convey to you that he was acting like a
reporter in any particular matter?
Mr. HALLMARK. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you gather from what he said that he was acting like a
reporter in connection with the death of the President?
Mr. HALLMARK. I, of course, assumed that. He made the remark to me
that, I believe in the process of dialing the first one of two numbers
he called, that what happened to the President was terrible, and of
course, I agreed, but I got most of my information when I was just
immediately adjacent to him as he used the phone there.
Mr. HUBERT. You are making a gesture there which indicates about 2 feet?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes; or less.
Mr. HUBERT. You were within 2 feet of him when he conversed?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you hear voices on the other end of the phone?
Mr. HALLMARK. No; I could not.
Mr. HUBERT. But you gathered your information from his remarks that you
could clearly hear?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And that’s, of course, been reported in this Exhibit No. 1,
and you say it is correctly reported?
Mr. HALLMARK. It’s very good.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I think you have mentioned in your report here on the
first page that he was speaking to someone and told that person that
his clubs would be closed, and then the conversation, as you put it
here, switched to some remarks concerning the transfer of Oswald.
Can you elaborate on that and tell us in more detail specifically what
type of remarks those were?
Mr. HALLMARK. He was--he told this person who he had established as
being Ken, that he had been to the city hall and was following this
thing, and he had information to the effect that the transfer was
to take place that afternoon. I got the impression that he had some
information and possibly wanted corroboration. In other words, he
just was not 100 percent sure, but he had--he thought he knew that
the thing was to take place then, but was not 100 percent sure. Then,
he remarked that people started strewing flowers at the scene of the
assassination, which is in the immediate locale of the county jail, so
that possibly because of the congestion they would not transfer Oswald
that afternoon. Oswald’s name--I don’t recall definitely that Oswald’s
name was mentioned. He kept referring to him as “he”.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you were aware that he was talking to a newspaper
reporter, weren’t you, a Wes Wise?
Mr. HALLMARK. He was talking to, if I may tell you something I found
out since or I think I found out, he was talking to a diskjockey on one
of the local radio stations.
Mr. HUBERT. His original call had been then to a man by the name of Wes
Wise--Wesley Wise?
Mr. HALLMARK. He asked for Wes Wise.
Mr. HUBERT. What radio station would that be?
Mr. HALLMARK. I believe that would be Ken Dowe with KLIF. This I think
I found out since the trial.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words; he first asked for Wes Wise?
Mr. HALLMARK. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. And your recollection is he soon discovered he was talking
to Ken and so made a remark that indicated he was?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Was it your impression that his efforts to corroborate the
time of the transfer were successful or not? I mean, did you get the
impression that this man he was talking to confirmed Ruby’s apparent
thought that the move would be made that Saturday afternoon?
Mr. HALLMARK. I really don’t think he did. I believe that as the
conversation progressed and turned out, that Ruby had more information
or perhaps, and I don’t know what the other guy knew, but perhaps he
just wasn’t putting anything out.
Mr. HUBERT. In any case, you got the impression that Ruby, who was
seeking information, was not in fact getting any but giving some?
Mr. HALLMARK. That’s true; and it just suited him to be putting out
this information.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, he seemed pleased with himself?
Mr. HALLMARK. He seemed pleased with himself; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you make the statement here that one of the remarks he
made was “You know I’ll be there”. Do you recall in what context that
was, I mean, what had immediately preceded that, so that we might be
able to gain some light as to where he said he would be?
Mr. HALLMARK. He planned to be on the scene of the transfer.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s what you gathered from that remark?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember what preceded it so that we could get the
basis of forming an impression ourselves of what this phrase “You know
I’ll be there” referred to?
Mr. HALLMARK. The conversation that preceded that statement was that
about the strewing of the flowers and the possible delay of the
transfer. In other words, immediately after he said that possibly the
thing would be delayed, he listened for a period of time, maybe 20
seconds and closed the conversation with, “You know I’ll be there”.
Mr. HUBERT. And your thought is that that referred to the jail?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, one other thing I want to cover is that you make
a statement that it was your impression that Ruby would not allow
the girls who worked in his establishment either as waitresses or
entertainers to make dates out of the club. Can you tell us how you
obtained that information?
Mr. HALLMARK. Well, in the 3 plus years that I have known Ruby, we’ve
probably--I can say conservatively that we have talked 30 minutes
a week about first one thing or another. Ruby was a good neighbor,
and, of course, he pushed my operation there in this garage, and it
was through those conversations that influenced my thinking from a
standpoint of--I mean--this wouldn’t have anything to do with morals,
it would be because Ruby knew that he could get himself in trouble, you
know, lose his license.
Mr. HUBERT. That impression came from a series of conversations that
spread over possibly 3 years?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes; right.
Mr. HUBERT. All of which indicated to you that he would not tolerate
the dating of his girls, but that principally he was motivated by the
fact that he could get into difficulty if he did?
Mr. HALLMARK. Yes; true, because he could lose his liquor license.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he ever advert specifically to his losing his liquor
license or is that an example that just simply occurs to you?