and wipe it off, and they started about 5:30 wiping it off, so when we
leave, it would all be clean.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Andy Armstrong on Saturday?
Mr. MILLER. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I haven’t any more questions. I want to thank you for
coming in and being so helpful to us.
Is there anything else that you would like to say?
Mr. MILLER. There isn’t anything I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, thank you very much. Nice to have met you, Mr.
Miller.
One thing, I want to ask you to sign the interview report that I have
marked as Exhibit No. 1. If you would sign it up near where I have
marked it, and if you would also put your initials on the second page.
[Mr. Miller signs and initials.]
Mr. GRIFFIN. Fine. Thank you very much.
Mr. MILLER. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF NELSON BENTON
The testimony of Nelson Benton was taken on July 7, 1964, at 300 Oil
and Gas Bldg., 1100 Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, La., by Mr. Leon D.
Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Mr. Nelson Benton. Do you have a
middle initial?
Mr. BENTON. Well, my first name is Joseph but I just use Nelson.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. Benton, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a member of the
advisory staff of the general counsel of the President’s Commission
on the Assassination of President Kennedy. Under the provisions of
Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, the joint resolution
of the Congress No. 137, and the rules of procedure adopted by the
Commission, and in conformance with that Executive order and that joint
resolution, I have been authorized to take this sworn deposition from
you.
I state to you that the general nature of the Commission’s inquiry
is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relative to the
assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death
of Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular to you, Mr. Benton, the nature of
the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the death
of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you may know about the general
inquiry and about Jack Ruby and his operations and associates as to his
movements on the dates of November 22 through November 24, 1963.
Now, Mr. Benton, normally a witness is given a 3-day written notice
before his deposition is taken, in accordance with the rules of the
Commission governing the procedure, but the rules also provide that a
witness may waive any notice and have his deposition taken, by request,
at any time.
In the instant case, no letter has been written to you or no request to
appear, but as I understand it, you waive all notice and are willing to
have your deposition taken now, this morning?
Mr. BENTON. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Now, will you be sworn, please?
(Nelson Benton, a witness called by the President’s Commission on the
Assassination of President Kennedy, having been first duly sworn, was
examined and testified as follows:)
Mr. HUBERT. Will you state your full name, please?
Mr. BENTON. My full name is Joseph Nelson Benton, B-e-n-t-o-n.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand, however, that in your profession you do not
use the name Joseph but are known as Nelson Benton.
Mr. BENTON. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Where do you normally reside?
Mr. BENTON. 3201 St. Charles.
Mr. HUBERT. That’s apartment 301?
Mr. BENTON. Apartment 321, I believe.
Mr. HUBERT. Apartment 321? What is your occupation, Mr. Benton?
Mr. BENTON. I am a correspondent for CBS News.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been a correspondent for CBS News?
Mr. BENTON. I have been employed by CBS News for 4 years. I have been
a correspondent since February. I’ll clarify that. Correspondent is a
title. I have been a reporter for CBS News since 1960.
Mr. HUBERT. And what was your occupation prior to that, sir?
Mr. BENTON. I was a reporter for a television station in Charlotte, N.C.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Mr. Benton, I am inquiring this morning about
the events of November 22 through November 24, 1963 in Dallas, in
particular connection with the death of President Kennedy and the death
of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the connection of Jack Ruby with the latter
event. Is it a fact that you were assigned as a correspondent for CBS
to cover the Presidential visit to Dallas on November 22?
Mr. BENTON. That is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you arrive there, sir?
Mr. BENTON. I arrived on Thursday, November 21.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, where were you when the President was shot?
Mr. BENTON. I was at television station KRLD, which is located, I
believe, on Camp Street.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, after the President was shot and after his death,
where did you go?
Mr. BENTON. I went to Parkland Memorial Hospital.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay there?
Mr. BENTON. Approximately 2 hours. A little less than 2 hours.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you state for the record, please, approximately when
you got there and approximately when you left?
Mr. BENTON. I arrived at the hospital at approximately 1 p.m. central
standard time. I would guess that I left around 2:30 or 2:45 central
standard time.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a Scripps-Howard reporter or correspondent by
the name of Seth Kantor?
Mr. BENTON. I do not.
Mr. HUBERT. Now you, of course, subsequent to November 22, saw and
identified and could now identify a man by the name of Jack Leon Ruby,
is that correct?
Mr. BENTON. I certainly could.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him at Parkland Memorial Hospital----
Mr. BENTON. I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. On the 22d?
Mr. BENTON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you remain in any particular place at Parkland or did
you move around?
Mr. BENTON. I moved around from the emergency entrance, where I talked
to Senator Yarborough--Senator Yarborough was in a car about three cars
behind the Presidential car--that was the first spot to which I went.
The second spot was a pressroom which had been set up, which, I believe
was a nursing classroom. That’s the spot at which the announcement of
the President’s death was made. The other place to which I went at the
hospital was the nurses’ quarters, which is across the street about 100
yards, and my purpose in going there was to get to a pay phone since
all the phones leading to the hospital were jammed up at the time.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you tell us about what time you left Parkland to go
to the nurses’ home?
Mr. BENTON. Well, this was not to go and stay. This was a shuttle.
I went over there several times. The first time I went was after
interviewing Senator Yarborough, which I would guess to be shortly
after 1 p.m. The next time I went was after Mr. Kilduff had announced
that the President was dead.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you tell us the circumstances under which that
announcement was made?
Mr. BENTON. Yes, sir. There was a room with, I would guess, 40 to 50
reporters in it. Mr. Kilduff came in and yelled to everybody to be
quiet and sit down. He said, “I have to announce that the President of
the United States died at approximately 1 p.m. central standard time of
bullet wounds in the head. I have no further details.” His statement
was a little more complete. I think he said President John F. Kennedy.
Mr. HUBERT. At approximately what time was that?
Mr. BENTON. Right at 1:30 central standard time.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you fix that by reason of some event that stays in your
memory?
Mr. BENTON. I looked at my watch and tried to compute the time, or was
looking to see how fast we had been advised.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you been told previous to the announcement by Mr.
Kilduff that there would be an announcement and to congregate at that
time and place or how did it happen?
Mr. BENTON. Someone suggested we congregate there. A Wayne Hawks, who
is a White House aide, a civil service person, he suggested we all move
up there. There had been a large number of people congregated around
the emergency entrance.
Mr. HUBERT. And that suggestion by Mr. Hawks was made at what time?
Mr. BENTON. I can only say between--some time between 1 p.m. and 1:30.
I don’t know exactly.
Mr. HUBERT. But it was after you had spoken to Senator Yarborough?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct. Senator Yarborough was the first person
that I spoke to when I arrived at the hospital.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was 1 o’clock, you said, approximately?
Mr. BENTON. I can only guess. Approximately 1 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. Then you went across to the nurses’ home to make your
telephone call and came back and it was after that the announcement
was made to congregate? Perhaps we can approach it this way: Do you
remember how long you had been in the room, after the announcement by
Mr. Hawks?
Mr. BENTON. Not very long. I would say 10 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. So that backing off of 1:30, it would be fair to say Mr.
Hawks must have announced that the correspondents should collect about
1:20 or somewhere----
Mr. BENTON. Mr. Hawks did not say gather at any time. I just recall his
saying: let’s go up. We set up a pressroom. Something to that effect.
Mr. HUBERT. And that would have been about 1:20 or some time----
Mr. BENTON. I would guess; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, after you left Parkland Memorial, where did you go?
Mr. BENTON. I went to the jail.
Mr. HUBERT. And then after that, where did you go?
Mr. BENTON. I think I returned to KRLD.
Mr. HUBERT. At what time did you first go to the Dallas City Jail
Building?
Mr. BENTON. It was some time in the evening of Friday, the 22d.
Mr. HUBERT. You were not there in the afternoon at all?
Mr. BENTON. I was not there in the afternoon when the arrest----
Mr. HUBERT. When you say evening, of course, you mean after nightfall?
Mr. BENTON. I would guess around 7 or 8 o’clock in the evening.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay?
Mr. BENTON. I stayed until after midnight.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you see Jack Ruby at any time during the period
you have just stated, from 8 to midnight, on the night of the 22d at
the Dallas City Police Jail?
Mr. BENTON. I did.
Mr. HUBERT. You did not know him at the time, is that correct?
Mr. BENTON. No.
Mr. HUBERT. How do you associate the man you now know to be Ruby as a
man that you saw?
Mr. BENTON. Because of something he said. Well, I told the FBI the
man was wearing a white on white shirt, and we--I hadn’t seen many
reporters wearing white on white shirts. It was----
Mr. HUBERT. You mean a white tie on a white shirt?
Mr. BENTON. No; I mean a white shirt with white figures
embroidered--what appeared to be embroidered figures in the shirt. I
noticed him because of something he said to District Attorney Wade,
I believe it was. Wade was discussing the political background of
Lee Oswald and Wade said something to the effect, and this is not a
direct quote, “Well, I think he’s a member of that Free Cuba group;”
whereupon, Jack Ruby corrected Wade and said, “No, it’s the Fair Play
for Cuba and there’s a great difference between the two and I wanted to
point that out.”
Mr. HUBERT. Did Wade acknowledge that correction?
Mr. BENTON. Wade said, “Well,” something like that. His answer is not
clear in my mind.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did that take place? I mean, what part of the jail?
Mr. BENTON. To the best of my recollection, it occurred in what is
called the assembly room, which is a room to which Oswald was taken
that night to make a statement to the press. And to the best of my
knowledge this occurred after Oswald had been in and----
Mr. HUBERT. Left? Do you know what time that was?
Mr. BENTON. Some time between 11 o’clock and midnight.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, the FBI report of the interview with you on December
1, 1963, indicates that Ruby’s comment in regard to the difference
between “Free Cuba,” and a “Fair Play for Cuba,” was made to correct
Chief of Police Curry, whereas you have stated now that it was made to
Mr. Wade, the district attorney.
Mr. BENTON. I don’t recall saying that it was Chief Curry. I recall it
was----
Mr. HUBERT. But you now remember it was made to correct Wade’s remark
and not Curry’s remark?
Mr. BENTON. That is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see Ruby prior to that time?
Mr. BENTON. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him after?
Mr. BENTON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean on the 22d.
Mr. BENTON. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when you did see him on the 22d, and your attention
was brought to him by the remark that he made, what was he doing?
Mr. BENTON. What was he, Ruby, doing?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. BENTON. I don’t recall, sir. A number of reporters were talking to
Wade.
Mr. HUBERT. He was in the room with them, is that right?
Mr. BENTON. He was in the room.
Mr. HUBERT. Had you seen him at all before that remark in that room?
Mr. BENTON. No, sir. My attention was concentrated on Oswald at the
time.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you see Ruby on Saturday, November 23, at any time?
Mr. BENTON. I don’t recall seeing him then.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you in the jail, the Dallas jail, during any time on
Saturday, the 23d?
Mr. BENTON. Yes, sir. As I recall, I was there most of the day.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, passing to Sunday, November 24, I think you had
mentioned heretofore to the FBI that you had an interview with Chief of
Police Curry?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. About what time was that?
Mr. BENTON. I have to space these things back according to specific
events. I would guess it was some time between 9 and 10 a.m.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let’s start it this way. What time did you get there
on Sunday morning?
Mr. BENTON. I think about 8:30.
Mr. HUBERT. And you went right up to the third floor?
Mr. BENTON. That is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. By the way, did you have any identification?
Mr. BENTON. Yes; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you challenged?
Mr. BENTON. I was.
Mr. HUBERT. I take it from what you have told us that during the
period, November 22 through 24, 1963, you went in and out of the
jailhouse and the third floor on quite a number of occasions?
Mr. BENTON. That is true.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you challenged at all times or once or twice?
Mr. BENTON. Not directly challenged. For purposes of the President’s
visit, press passes that you pin on your jacket were issued in Dallas.
I had one of those, which had been issued me prior to the President’s
arrival, which I wore.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you wear that at all times in the period in question?
Mr. BENTON. I wore that at all times. On Sunday, the security at the
police department and jail was far more strict than it had been on the
previous 2 days. There were times when I was asked to show additional
identification. I don’t remember specifically which times, but on the
morning of Sunday, November 24, when I entered the jail, I was stopped,
asked to show identification, and for the purpose I showed a Department
of Defense accreditation which has my name and picture on it issued
by the Department of Defense. And my name was taken at the time by a
plainclothesman, of course.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did that occur?
Mr. BENTON. That occurred on the street floor of the police department.
Not the basement, but what I presume you would call the main floor.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean by the elevators or----
Mr. BENTON. In the vicinity of the elevators; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. On which side? Commerce?
Mr. BENTON. I entered the building from--let’s see. Is it Main Street
and Commerce Street or Commerce Street and Main? At any rate, I entered
from the--I believe it’s Main, Commerce, and Harwood that bound the
city jail, and I think I entered from the----
Mr. HUBERT. Let me put it this way. If a person is in the jailhouse and
is looking toward Harwood he will find Commerce on his left and Main on
his right.
Mr. BENTON. Well, I entered, then, from the Commerce Street side.
Mr. HUBERT. And it was there you were challenged as to your identity?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you mentioned a distinction between the security
measures you observed on Sunday and those that you observed on the
previous days and I wonder if you could tell us a bit more about that.
I think you said that it was much tighter or something like that.
Mr. BENTON. It was tighter to the extent that a plainclothesman, who
was in the company of another plainclothesman, not only asked to see my
credentials but wrote my name down at that time, and I presume the name
of my association.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, did you see, on the previous days, anybody going in
without any kind of identification? In and out?
Mr. BENTON. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now returning to the interview with Curry, which you
said occurred between 9 and 10, was that interview with Curry by you
alone or was the interview of Curry by several news persons?
Mr. BENTON. As I recall, this particular one was either by me, alone,
or perhaps one other network reporter.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did that take place?
Mr. BENTON. It took place in the large anteroom into which Chief
Curry’s office adjoins.
Mr. HUBERT. Was this taped in any way? Was it a radio or television
interview?
Mr. BENTON. Yes, sir; it was television, and, to my knowledge, I think
it was taped. I don’t know whether it was broadcast live or taped. I
did not have direct communications with New York. That was through the
truck. I merely relayed; I have something, and I was given a cue to go,
and what disposition they made of it; I don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand. This was what station again?
Mr. BENTON. Sir?
Mr. HUBERT. What television station?
Mr. BENTON. This was KRLD. We had employed the facilities of KRLD,
and, of course, it was--we were all doing the same thing. It got to a
point there was no distinction between us and their people. We were all
working together.
Mr. HUBERT. So that interview was actually a live interview of Curry
with you doing the questioning?
Mr. BENTON. It was on a live camera. Whether it was broadcast live, I
don’t know.
Mr. HUBERT. But you, doing the questioning, I presume you were on the
screen, or were both of you on the screen?
Mr. BENTON. Both of us were on the screen, I presume.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you just simply asked Curry for that interview and got
it? Is that it?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did it last, do you remember?
Mr. BENTON. Probably 5 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I assume there is a tape available on that; but,
anyhow, can you tell us the general nature of what was said?
Mr. BENTON. The general nature, as I recall it--the only specific
reason that I did the interview was to point out that Chief Curry
had planned to bring an armored car to the--as I recall it now, the
Commerce Street side of the jail, in which to transport Oswald to the
county jail.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you had the information that an armored car
was going to be used and you wished to have an interview to develop
that, is that correct?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. How did you learn there was to be an armored car used?
Mr. BENTON. For the life of me, I can’t tell you. I picked it up.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see it?
Mr. BENTON. I did.
Mr. HUBERT. And was this interview of Curry before you saw it or
afterwards?
Mr. BENTON. I think probably it was before.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you heard there was to be an armored car,
then you interviewed Curry, and then, later, you saw the armored car?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Curry tell you why an armored car was going to be used?
Mr. BENTON. His answer was; this is not--something to the effect
that--this is not an ordinary prisoner. We want to take every security
measure we can.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I think perhaps you stated--what you have given to
the FBI, in their report in the interview of December 1, is that this
was at 9 o’clock. And I believe you told us a few moments ago it was
somewhere between 9 and 10.
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. You can’t fix it any closer?
Mr. BENTON. No, sir; I don’t think I can fix it any closer.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall whether Chief Curry had made any announcement
on Saturday night, November the 23d, as to the movement of Oswald the
next day?
Mr. BENTON. Chief Curry said something to the effect that: if you
fellows are here by 10 o’clock, you’ll be all right. I heard no
announcement saying that Lee Oswald would be moved at 10 o’clock.
Mr. HUBERT. At the time of the interview with Curry on the 24th, did he
state at that time when Oswald would be moved?
Mr. BENTON. To my knowledge, to my recollection, he did not say a
specific time.
Mr. HUBERT. How long after this interview ended did you leave the third
floor to go down, wherever you did go?
Mr. BENTON. Mr. Hubert, I could only guess. This was a time during
which we were guessing ourselves, and I really don’t know. I think----
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s put it this way. After the interview with Curry was
over, where did you go? Do you remember?
Mr. BENTON. I think I may have gone down to Commerce Street where our
mobile unit was located. I think I may have gone down there several
times and returned. But I would not be able to say at what time or how
long I stayed at a given place. I circulated between the third floor,
the mobile unit we had located on Commerce Street and the basement
entrance to the jail.
Mr. HUBERT. Where was your mobile unit located?
Mr. BENTON. It was located on Commerce Street, right outside the
building, the old municipal building.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you name some of the people who were connected with
the mobile unit?
Mr. BENTON. The director was a man by the name of Lee Webb. One pf the
cameramen’s names was English, I believe. Harold English. I’m not sure.
These are not CBS employees. They were KRLD employees.
Mr. HUBERT. KRLD is what city?
Mr. BENTON. Dallas; it’s owned by the Times Herald.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see another mobile unit belonging to another TV
station along in there?
Mr. BENTON. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. HUBERT. How far away?
Mr. BENTON. As I recall, it was adjacent to ours.
Mr. HUBERT. Was there a crowd on Commerce Street at that time?
Mr. BENTON. Not a large crowd; no, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you recall seeing a crowd on the opposite side of
Commerce Street?
Mr. BENTON. Yes; a small crowd. Less than 100 people.
Mr. HUBERT. They were controlled by police; were they?
Mr. BENTON. There seemed no need for control. I’m sure there were some
police out there but----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, in the area of your mobile unit, I take it that there
were not many people congregated?
Mr. BENTON. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. It was fairly clear? There were some police personnel and
that was about it?
Mr. BENTON. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. I understand, too, from what you said, that between the
time of your arrival there at 8:30 until the time of the shooting,
which was somewhere around 11:20, that you commuted, as it were, from
the jail down to your mobile unit?
Mr. BENTON. Not from the jail; no, sir. I was never in the jail itself.
Mr. HUBERT. I mean the jail building.
Mr. BENTON. Right. From the third floor to the mobile unit.
Mr. HUBERT. And how many times do you suppose you commuted in that way?
Mr. BENTON. It’s only a guess. I would say at least four or five times.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, at any time that you did so commute, did you see the
man that you have subsequently come to know as Jack Ruby in that area?
Mr. BENTON. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, where were you at the time the actual shooting
occurred?
Mr. BENTON. I was in the mobile unit.
Mr. HUBERT. How long had you been there?
Mr. BENTON. Less than 10 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you come from?
Mr. BENTON. I had come from the third floor of the building.
Mr. HUBERT. Why did you leave the third floor to go to the mobile unit?
Mr. BENTON. I had an indication from someone, and I cannot say who
because I just don’t recall, that the move was imminent.
Mr. HUBERT. How did that indication come to you?
Mr. BENTON. It could have come from another reporter. It could have
come from a police official. I don’t know. It may have just come from
instinct.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see any movement that indicated that something like
that was imminent?
Mr. BENTON. I guess I saw more lack of movement. There weren’t many
people on the third floor.
Mr. HUBERT. And theretofore there had been?
Mr. BENTON. So that could have triggered an instinct. I don’t
know. I had stayed up there because earlier I had asked Huffaker,
H-u-f-f-a-k-e-r, who is a reporter for KRLD--it had been decided that
he would stay at the jail entrance and I would stay in the mobile unit
where I could see what all of our cameras were picking up, rather than
only on one scene. I knew that he was at the basement entrance to the
jail and I knew that we were covered there. Consequently, I felt free
to roam, to a certain extent, and pick up information.