went over to the Colony Club, and Pappy wasn’t there, so Lynn said she
was going to call Jack. She needed some money, and he didn’t tell her
that he was going to be closed.
But he said that he told Andy that he was going to be closed, and Andy
was supposed to call her, and he couldn’t find her, or something; I
don’t know.
She called Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had she gone to work the night before?
Mrs. POWELL. No. They were notified the night before that they weren’t
going to work, but the next night for some reason they weren’t
notified. I don’t really know why. But she wasn’t.
I think someone else showed up that night too. They didn’t know they
weren’t supposed to work. I don’t know who it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Another one of the dancers?
Mrs. POWELL. Another girl, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who else was working there?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. He had some girls at one time that I didn’t
know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Kathy Kay working there at that time?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she show up?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. I just saw this one girl, and she was a new
girl, and I think he just got her off the street somewhere just to fill
in in the show.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Joy Dale? Do you remember Joy Dale?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes, I remember Joy Dale.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was she the one that showed up?
Mrs. POWELL. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t think much of Joy Dale, I take it, from your
response?
Mrs. POWELL. No, because I read the article she wrote to a magazine,
and it was a bunch of lies, and I don’t like people that lie.
Mr. GRIFFIN. She wrote an article about Jack Ruby that wasn’t true?
Mrs. POWELL. If they can’t tell the truth, they don’t need to say
anything at all, and she broke her neck to make all these wild
statements.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she use her own proper name in that magazine article?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. It was Joy Dale, is what it said.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that the name that was used, Joy Dale, in the magazine
article?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what magazine it was in?
Mrs. POWELL. In a little one. It made me sick. I didn’t even buy it. It
had a picture of her and pictures of Lynn in there. It was a small type
magazine.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You all went from the Carousel Club to the Colony?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes. I was looking for Pappy to get some money. We were
going immediately back to Fort Worth, because I didn’t have any reason
to be over there. Then we went to the Theatre Lounge, and I found Pappy
and I got some money, and we got in the car and went back to Fort Worth
and went out to the Three Twelve Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is the Three Twelve Club?
Mrs. POWELL. On Lancaster in Fort Worth. (2701 E. Lancaster.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. About what time did you get to the Three Twelve Club?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. It must have been around 11.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you stay there?
Mrs. POWELL. Until they closed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time was that?
Mrs. POWELL. 12.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do?
Mrs. POWELL. Then I took them home and I went home, I guess.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You hesitate. Now, what did you do?
Mrs. POWELL. I either went home or went to the Cellar. I guess I went
home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The Cellar, is that another club?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is the Cellar?
Mrs. POWELL. Fort Worth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you think you went to the Cellar?
Mrs. POWELL. Because I went to the Cellar sometimes because the Cellar
was open all night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is it an all night club?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes, sir. That is where the Secret Service men go.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am not in the Secret Service.
Mrs. POWELL. Pat said he would probably be called to ask him about
getting them drunk on purpose. But they don’t have drinks down there. I
had a rum and coke.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that rum extract?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes. Anyway, whether I went home or not, I may have gone
by the Cellar, or home, one or the two. I really don’t remember. I
can’t remember all those things away back then.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember while you were at the Colony Club about
Little Lynn and Bruce going out any place?
Mrs. POWELL. No; she made a phone call. Did I tell you she called Jack
and asked him?
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you know that she called Jack?
Mrs. POWELL. Because I was with her. I didn’t go in the phone, but she
called him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did she call him?
Mrs. POWELL. From the parking lot. She said she asked him why he didn’t
tell her that he wasn’t going to be open, and he got--this is hearsay.
I mean, that is what she repeated to me, and I don’t know if I can
repeat exactly what she said.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did she repeat it; at that time?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes; right afterward. She was pretty mad, because she made
the trip over and everything and they were closed, so she asked Jack
why they didn’t tell her they were going to be closed. And she said
that he started hollering at her, “Don’t you have any respect for the
President?” And she said he was hollering and screaming and was real
mad and said that she should have known that he was going to be closed.
Anyway, she proceeded to tell him that she needed some money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How much money did she ask him for?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. I think $20 or $25. I think it was $25; I am
not sure. And he was going to the synagogue.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you know he was going to the synagogue?
Mrs. POWELL. Well, because I know he was going to the synagogue. Maybe
somebody told me, but I know he went to the synagogue that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure that he went that night? How do you know he
went the same night the telephone call was made?
Mrs. POWELL. I think that is the night he went to the synagogue,
really. I am saying this is a fact, you understand?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure that was on Saturday night, or could it have
been Friday night that you were at the Colony Club?
Mrs. POWELL. It was the day after the President was shot. What day was
that?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That would have been a Saturday.
Mrs. POWELL. Well, that is when it was, because the first night they
were closed up, and the next night they were all open except Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember, did Little Lynn tell you that after her
telephone call? Did Little Lynn tell you Jack said he was going to the
synagogue?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t remember, but, okay, anyway, he was going
someplace, and he couldn’t give her the money that night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, what makes you think he was going someplace?
Mrs. POWELL. Well, he told her that he couldn’t bring the money to her
until later, and she wanted to go out to his apartment and pick it up
or something. I don’t remember, really, too much about it. But he told
her that he would send it to her the next day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she get any money there at the parking lot?
Mrs. POWELL. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you at the parking lot?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you know that Jack said he would send it to her
the next day?
Mrs. POWELL. Because she said so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did she tell you that?
Mrs. POWELL. When she got through talking on the phone, she told Bruce
and I, because Bruce didn’t have any money, as usual, and they needed
the money. She told Bruce that he said he would send it to her the next
day. Because he was planning to stay closed, he told her, for 3 or 4
days, or until Monday, I think he said. Or I don’t remember. I think
he was going to stay closed until Monday, or until after the funeral,
he was going to stay closed. She could tell you more about that. But I
know he was going to send her the money, because she told Bruce.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure you didn’t stay up in the club while she made
that phone call, at the Colony Club?
Mrs. POWELL. I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You seem to have a pretty vivid recollection of being down
there.
Mrs. POWELL. I know when we went, we stopped at the parking lot, when
we went to the club, and it was closed. I know she made a phone call
from the parking lot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you know that?
Mrs. POWELL. Because I know she didn’t make it in the club. I don’t
think she did. Hell, she may have. She might have; I don’t remember,
really. All I know is what she came back and said after she got through
talking on the phone. What she said is that Jack was real mad and was
hollering, “Don’t you have any respect for the President,” and said
that he couldn’t bring her the money right then, or something, but
that he would send it to her the next day, something. And I know Bruce
wanted to know if we could go by and pick it up, and we discussed that,
but for some reason he was going to send it; I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don’t remember getting any money on Saturday night?
Mrs. POWELL. Her getting any money?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know where she would get it from, because she was
with me, and we didn’t go any place to get any money. I didn’t loan
them any money. I came over to get money from Pappy myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Didn’t Lynn borrow any money from Pappy?
Mrs. POWELL. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. She was with you when you went to Pappy’s?
Mrs. POWELL. I think I cornered Pappy in the parking lot, and I think
that they stayed up in the club, in the Colony Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see anybody up in the Colony Club that worked for
Jack?
Mrs. POWELL. Nope.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were any of his friends up there?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t remember whether I did or not. I remember seeing
Abe. I don’t really remember. I don’t recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you make any stops between Dallas and Fort Worth on
the way back?
Mrs. POWELL. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you go past Jack’s apartment?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You seem to have some hesitation?
Mrs. POWELL. Well, the reason I am doing that is because I know there
was some sort of discussion about going by there to pick the money up,
which we didn’t. I don’t think we did. I think that we went directly to
Fort Worth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You hadn’t made any arrangements yourself to see either
Jack or Ralph Paul Saturday night, had you?
Mrs. POWELL. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to Ralph that day at all?
Mrs. POWELL. Well, I don’t think I talked to him that day. I don’t
think I did. I may have, but I don’t think so. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were still dating Ralph at that time?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t remember that either. I was trying to remember.
I don’t think so. I don’t remember. I just can’t remember things like
that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You saw him the next day?
Mrs. POWELL. I am the one that called him and told him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you when you called him?
Mrs. POWELL. I was at home. He was at work, and a friend of mine called
me and told me that Jack had done this thing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who called you?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know, one of my girl friends. Two or three of my
girl friends. Betty, this friend of mine, called first.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is Betty’s name?
Mrs. POWELL. Betty Stowbaugh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who else called you?
Mrs. POWELL. I think Barbara called.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who is she?
Mrs. POWELL. Barbara Wagner. Why do you want to know all the people
that called? It was on TV, and they called to let me know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who else called you?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. 1 know those two called.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Little Lynn call you?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes; but Betty called me as soon as it happened, before
they knew who did it, and she told me to turn it on channel something
real quick, and the TV was on already, but I had just gotten up, and I
ran in there, and then they kept saying Jack Luey, and I thought well,
that is not him. It was on TV. They said Jack Ruby did it. Then they
said Jack Ruby, and I called Ralph and told him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Ralph say?
Mrs. POWELL. He said, “No; he didn’t.” And I said, “Yes; he did.” “No;
he didn’t do that,” he said. “He is at home.” And I said, “No; he is
not. He did it.” So he said he would call the apartment, “And call you
right back.” So, he called the apartment, and there was no answer, and
he had a radio down there, and somebody came in or something on the
radio and told him that it happened.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you know Ralph called Jack’s apartment?
Mrs. POWELL. He told me. That is what he said he was going to do, call
the apartment. He said he was home and was going to call to see if he
was at home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do?
Mrs. POWELL. I was there at the house and he said he would call me
back. I don’t know whether I called him or he called me, but anyway, we
spoke on the phone again, and he knew that it was Jack that had done it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he tell you?
Mrs. POWELL. He couldn’t believe that he would do it. So he said he was
going to come over right away to see about helping Jack, and wanted me
to go with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Didn’t he mention that he talked with Jack the night
before?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he tell you about that?
Mrs. POWELL. He just said he spoke to Jack, and that Jack was very
upset, and I think he wanted to go someplace.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did he want to go?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. I think he wanted Ralph to go someplace with
him or something special and Ralph didn’t feel like going or doing
anything that night. He just didn’t feel like doing anything, and I
think he talked to Jack two or three times that night and he kept
calling him at home, and he woke him up a couple of times. I know Ralph
felt bad about it because he felt if he had come over and gone out with
Jack, maybe he wouldn’t have gotten into a state of depression.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, didn’t Ralph mention to you that Jack told him he
had a gun and Jack was thinking about shooting Oswald Saturday night?
Mrs. POWELL. No; he didn’t tell me that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Don’t you remember him saying that over at the Bull Pen
Drive-in when you went over there?
Mrs. POWELL. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What do you remember him saying over there?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t remember him saying anything except that Ralph
didn’t have any idea that Jack was even contemplating such a thing. He
didn’t. I mean, I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you know that?
Mrs. POWELL. Because I know Ralph, and I know Jack, and I know that
Ralph didn’t have any idea, because he and Jack were very good friends,
and if Ralph had had any idea at all whatsoever that Jack was planning
to do something like that, he would have stopped him, or tried to stop
him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, don’t you think if Jack did have that sort of idea,
that he would have told Ralph about it?
Mrs. POWELL. Well, no; not especially, because Jack is the type of
person that is not too sure what he is going to do himself, because
he is not too sure that he would tell somebody that he is going to do
something at such and such a time, because he is not sure himself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you all talk about when you got over to the Bull
Pen that morning?
Mrs. POWELL. I just went to the Bull Pen and immediately got in the car
and came over here, and we went down to the city hall, and we went in.
In the meantime, George Senator came down, and they arrested him, so
the lawyers came over, and Ralph called Tommy Howard, or I think Tom
Howard, and we were down in the police station to see Jack and see
about him, and the lawyers came in a couple of hours, and they got us
out of there right away, because they said they were afraid they might
lock us up too, because they had already grabbed George and put him in
jail. So, they took us across the street to the office, and we were
sitting there hoping that what’s-his-name wouldn’t die.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to George at all that day?
Mrs. POWELL. No; we didn’t see George. He was in jail. He didn’t get
out until that evening or that night. We were over there, and Tom
Howard, I think, and another lawyer--I know Tom Howard went over and
spoke to Jack. They called to see if they could, and he went and spoke
to Jack, and then they came back.
In the meantime, we were watching TV and Bill DeMar got on there and
said he saw Oswald in the club. And there was a Houston reporter over
there asking me all kinds of questions. We were hoping and praying that
maybe he wouldn’t die, so we were listening to see, and he did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then where did you go from there?
Mrs. POWELL. Well, we left there and went back to--the drummer was over
there--Bill Willis came in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To the police station?
Mrs. POWELL. No; the lawyer’s office, and there was just people milling
in and out that knew Jack. They were all around.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did Bill Willis happen to come?
Mrs. POWELL. He was down there around the police station and we saw him
on the street and hollered, and he came in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Bill Willis been down around the police station
earlier?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t know. I saw him walking across the street. I
imagine all the people came down when that happened, you know, but then
we went back to the Bull Pen, I guess, and I got my car and I went
home, I think. I don’t remember what I did afterward. I think I went
home. I did go home, yes; I did go home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you take off someplace?
Mrs. POWELL. I rode with Ralph to the Bull Pen, and I got my car and
went home, and I stayed there. Well, he didn’t want to be bothered by
reporters and all that, because they were poking around, so he went to
some friend’s house to stay.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you know that?
Mrs. POWELL. Because he called me and told me where he was going to
be. He said he didn’t want to be bothered with a bunch of reporters,
because Ralph took it pretty hard, because he liked Jack quite a bit
and he took it pretty hard. So he went over to this friend’s house and
he was over there, and then he went someplace else, and the FBI came
and got him. And this Rose woman that worked for him, she cried and
said he is like her father.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he call Ralph, Johnny, at the Bull Pen?
Mrs. POWELL. No; Johnny is Rose’s husband. Rose was crying and called
me up and was real upset, and the FBI had taken him and questioned him
and wanted me to come over, and I had an interview on TV that night.
She wanted me to come over there and go with her. She was crying and
hysterical, so I went back to Arlington and got her, and we came to the
police station, and they didn’t have him down there, so we got back in
the car and went down to the FBI. They wanted to talk to me, because
they asked Rose, when they got Ralph, if I was with him. So I went down
and he questioned me and questioned her, and we went back to Arlington.
They had taken him to the Arlington police station and questioned him.
So then we went home and went to bed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you hear from Lynn?
Mrs. POWELL. She called me that day that it happened, sometime during
the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she have to say?
Mrs. POWELL. I am not even sure that it was Lynn; whether it was Lynn
or Bruce. I don’t know. Just the same thing everybody was saying, “Did
you know that Jack did this, and what do you think about it?” You know;
what everybody asked.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did she mention anything to you about having talked with
him that morning?
Mrs. POWELL. No; I don’t believe so. Gosh, it was so hard to remember,
because so much happened in just such a short time, and being so
involved like right here it is, it is hard to remember all those things.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Try to remember a little harder.
Mrs. POWELL. What do you want me to remember?
Mr. GRIFFIN. What she said in the conversation.
Mrs. POWELL. Well, I don’t know. Something like, “Did you see Jack, or
did you know Jack shot Oswald, or did you see him on TV,” or something.
And I said, “Yes”; like, “What do you think about it,” or something. I
am trying to remember something that happened on Saturday night. I knew
that something was terribly wrong with Jack that Saturday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you know that?
Mrs. POWELL. Because he wouldn’t close the club down for any reason
at all, and he was very upset. I don’t remember now, but I remember
making a statement to Bruce and Lynn on the way home that I didn’t know
what he was up to, but he was up to something. I remember making that
statement, because I know him like a book. But I had no idea. I had no
idea that this was the thing he was going to do, but I just knew he was
going to do something. But we were discussing it on the way back. But
what I thought maybe he was going to do, a lot of people figured when
this thing happened that the Kennedys were going to come down and close
this town up completely, you know, so we figured that, well, that is
the only thing.
I figured that maybe Jack was afraid that he might be closed up or
something, so he was going to stay closed until after the funeral, or
something like that. But I just knew he was going to do something.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was it that you had heard that he had said or done
that made you feel that way?
Mrs. POWELL. Nothing; whenever Lynn spoke to him on the phone and when
she came back and told us what he had said, and then he was real upset,
but the thing that made me think that is because Jack would not close
down. We begged and begged him to let us off Christmas or Christmas
Day, and there was no way he was going to do it. Ralph said he wouldn’t
close the club down for anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. He stayed open on Christmas Eve and Christmas night?
Mrs. POWELL. No; Ralph told him to close one day. I forget--it was more
than two. We closed one or the two. I think it was Christmas Eve when
he closed. Yes; it was Christmas Eve when we were closed. But I just
knew he was up to something, but in my wildest imagination I didn’t
dream he would do that. But I figured he had some reason for closing up
that way. I was just shocked too, because I happened to remember making
that statement to Lynn.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Lynn say?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t recall that she said anything. I know we were just
discussing it in general.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What about Bruce?
Mrs. POWELL. Bruce agreed with me that he figured that Jack was up to
something.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What sort of guy is Bruce?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t like him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why is that?
Mrs. POWELL. Because he comes on like a junior jiver with a bunch of
this hip talk. “Man,” and this stuff, and I don’t like this. And he
doesn’t work, and Lynn was pregnant, and he beat her up all the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he living off her?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he prostituting her?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t think so; I really don’t know. I didn’t care
enough to find out that much. I know she was working over here and
riding with me, and he just beat on her, and her pregnant, and I don’t
like it. So I can’t like men like that, so I don’t care for him too
much. As a matter of fact, I absolutely don’t like him at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he come back with you in the car?
Mrs. POWELL. Back where?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Back to Fort Worth?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes; we all three went back and went to that club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then did you take them home?
Mrs. POWELL. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Does Bruce have a car?
Mrs. POWELL. I think they were supposed to have a car; but it was in
the shop or something, because she had been riding with me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see anybody there at the club that night that
works for Jack; friends of Jack?
Mrs. POWELL. What club?
Mr. GRIFFIN. The club that you went to with Lynn and Bruce.
Mrs. POWELL. No; just about everybody knows Jack. He knows so many
people.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Bruce make any telephone calls from the club that
night?
Mrs. POWELL. Not that I recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Bruce or Lynn ever say anything to you after Jack shot
Oswald that indicated what they had done Sunday morning?
Mrs. POWELL. No; what did they do Sunday morning?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is my secret.
Mrs. POWELL. Tell me so I will know everything. I know that Jack sent
her some money, but I didn’t find out from her.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you find out?
Mrs. POWELL. I read it in the papers. I know that he sent some money
just before he did that. That is what it said. It said everything in
the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Kathy Kay after Jack shot Oswald?
Mrs. POWELL. I don’t think I saw her. She came to work in Oklahoma City
while I was there. She worked up there with me. But I was there 2 weeks
before she came up there. She never went back to the club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why didn’t she go back?
Mrs. POWELL. Because she didn’t want to. Because for one thing, she had
this boy friend that she had been going with that was a policeman, and
they were going to get married, and his parents didn’t know she was an
exotic, and her parents didn’t know she was an exotic--and there was
some guy from England--reporters came to her apartment and wanted to
interview her, and she didn’t want her family in England to know she is
an exotic dancer, and she didn’t want to be involved in it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did she tell you about her contacts with Jack over
the weekend?