Mr. STERN. I don't want to put the idea in your head.
Mr. OLDS. Well, I know, but we had the idea that Oswald was not being
accurate when he said he had been denied, because in our dealings
with the police here, we have had reason to believe that they are
very careful of this sort of thing. And certainly in a case of this
notoriety, certainly, our tendency was to believe that, but I have
always been sorry that we didn't talk with Oswald, because it was not
clear whether we would be permitted to see him that night or not.
Mr. STERN. But, you did not ask to see him?
Mr. OLDS. No; we did not, which I think was a mistake on my part.
Mr. STERN. Did anything transpire on Saturday, November 23?
Mr. OLDS. Not so much. I was watching television most of the day and
then the matter of counsel was raised, I think, during that day.
During the--I suppose when Oswald was being transferred in the hall
again, and--let's see--this is when Mr. Nichols went down late this
afternoon, I think around 5:30, and he reported after that that he
had seen Oswald in respect to the same reasons that we had for going
down there Saturday night, to see if he wanted some sort of legal
representation, and to make sure whether or not he was denied--being
denied it, and he said that he was satisfied that--in essence, Oswald
told Nichols he was satisfied with the situation. I can detail this
conversation if you would like, as it was told to me.
Mr. STERN. No.
Mr. OLDS. Well, that was the essence of what was found out.
Mr. STERN. Was there any mention of the American Civil Liberties Union?
Mr. OLDS. Yes; it was at this time that we first heard the idea that
Oswald might be a member of the American Civil Liberties Union, and
this surprised us, because we felt we would have had a record of it
in our files, but there is often a lapse of time when a member moves
from one area to another and it takes some time to transfer him to the
local affiliate. To make sure of this I called the national office in
New York City, and it was night, of course there was no one there, but
I finally got a number of one of the staff members and talked to him
at his home in New Jersey and told him about it, and he said, he would
check on the matter. Have somebody in New York, who lived near the
office to go in and see about it, and he did and they found no such
record at that time.
However, it was later discovered that on November 4, he had sent a
check for $2 to the office, which was, I believe, discovered 3 weeks
later.
Mr. STERN. Mr. Olds, I think that covers the matters that I am
interested in. Is there anything further that you would like to tell
us? Anything that you----
Mr. OLDS. Possibly later after this matter was disposed of, we became
interested in the legal status of Oswald's wife, Marina, and a story in
the New York Times, I believe December 19, said something to the effect
that perhaps she was being held incommunicado and in some way illegally
detained. Anyway, her status was not clear as far as the reporter was
concerned, and our national office in New York City got a number of
inquiries both by phone and personal calls and letters, telegrams, and
they asked us in turn then, to see what we could find out about it.
After a certain amount of negotiations with the Secret Service and FBI
and so on, we sent a letter to Mrs. Oswald and she later wrote us that
she was content with her situation, and was very happy with her status,
in fact, it was for her interest.
Mr. STERN. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Olds for coming in today.
The reporter will transcribe your testimony and you will then be
notified when it is available and afforded an opportunity to read it
and sign it. If you would like to waive that that is possible and the
reporter would send the transcript directly to the Commission.
Mr. OLDS. I will be glad to sign it. Do you want me to come down here
and do that?
Mr. STERN. Yes.
Mr. OLDS. When do you think it might be?
Mr. STERN. It should be within the next week or so.
Mr. OLDS. All right, fine.
Mr. STERN. Thank you very much.