Mr. GRAVES. So all he has to do is pick them out.
Mr. BELIN. So what you mean is the approximate age and size of the
particular person you want included in the showup, or is it of another
particular age and size?
Mr. GRAVES. The fact is, if I was showing you, I would tell them to
pull you for a showup and put some other men about your age and size.
That is what it boils down to.
Mr. BELIN. Now, could you tell us what Mrs. or Miss Markham did or said
when this particular showup took place? Were you standing right next to
her?
Mr. GRAVES. About as close as I am to you, which would be approximately
4 or 5 feet.
Mr. BELIN. All right; the men walked in, I assume, is that correct?
Mr. GRAVES. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. Where was Mrs. Markham at that particular time?
Mr. GRAVES. She was standing in the center of the room, approximately
in the first row of seats near the front.
Mr. BELIN. She was seated?
Mr. GRAVES. No; she was standing.
Mr. BELIN. She was standing?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did she look through an opening in the wall?
Mr. GRAVES. No; this is a screen, a nylon screen of some kind. I am
sure you have seen them?
Mr. BELIN. She can see through, as I understand, but the people in the
showup room cannot see the people on the other side of the screen. Is
that correct?
Mr. GRAVES. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Do you remember what she said or did after the
men in the showup came in?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, she began to cry when he came in. He was next to the
last man that come in in that order. No. 4, 3, 2, 1, and so forth that
came in.
Mr. BELIN. You mean No. 4 came first, then No. 3 and then No. 2 and
then No. 1?
Mr. GRAVES. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. When did she start crying?
Mr. GRAVES. When he walked in, Oswald walked in.
Mr. BELIN. You mean when the No. 2 man walked in?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Were they still walking at the time she started crying?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes. As soon as she saw him; yes. He would have to walk as
far as from here to that stand, approximately.
Mr. BELIN. That would be about 6 or 8 feet?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes, sir; roughly.
Mr. BELIN. All right. What did she do or say?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, of course she said that was the man that she saw,
Oswald. I mean at this particular time.
Mr. BELIN. Did she ask to have the men turn so that she would see their
profiles?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, I don't recall if she asked that or not, but that is
the normal procedure that we do that. We turn him profile, right, left,
and to the rear, and back to the front, in that order.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything specific that she said at the time
that she made the identification?
Mr. GRAVES. Nothing other than he is the one, No. 2 is the one.
Mr. BELIN. Was anything said by any of the men in the showup that
would--did they speak any words or say anything at all?
Mr. GRAVES. If they did, I don't remember what was said. I am
reasonably sure they asked some questions. That is the usual procedure.
If they were, at this point I just don't remember what was said.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the dress of the people in the showup?
Mr. GRAVES. No; positively not.
Mr. BELIN. Does your police department ever take any photograph of an
actual showup, I mean, insofar as still shots, to have any written or
pictorial record of the men in the showup, as to what they were wearing
or what they looked like?
Mr. GRAVES. That was not a policy or an order at this time, but it has
been done, however, in the past.
But for various reasons, as I say, it is not the customary thing,
because we have quite a number of showups that would necessitate a
time element there, sometimes waiting on the proper people to take the
picture, and so forth.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you have any recollection of in
connection with this showup of Mrs. Markham or Miss Markham's
identification?
Mrs. GRAVES. I don't remember anything outstanding at this moment; no.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about when this took place, this actual
showup?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, let's see if I have it written down here. We put Lee
Oswald in a four-man lineup in the city hall on November 22, 1963, at
4:30 p.m., and had Helen Markham view this lineup. She was positive on
the identification of Oswald, and he was the No. 2 man in the four-man
lineup.
Mr. BELIN. You were reading from your notes that you made of your
actions on that day?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you did on that day?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, I don't remember anything else except this affidavit
of Mrs. Mary E. Bledsoe.
Mr. BELIN. That was on November 23, was it not?
Mr. GRAVES. November 23.
Mr. BELIN. I am still on November 22.
Mr. GRAVES. Have you had any of the reports that we have made?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir. I have read them all, but I have to get this down
for the record.
Mr. GRAVES. You want me to read this verbatim?
Mr. BELIN. No, sir; you can read it verbatim or else you can tell me
if there is anything that you can develop beyond what you have on the
written record that you submitted to your department.
I am very much interested in this, if you can develop anything. If you
can't, then you can just summarize or repeat what you have put down in
your written report.
Sometimes when you read something it triggers your memory and you
remember something that you might not have put down at the time.
Mr. GRAVES. Offhand, I don't remember anything.
Mr. BELIN. Well, according to your written report, you took Helen
Markham back to her address, to let her out?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember in talking with Helen Markham what she said
as to why she happened to be in the vicinity of the Tippit shooting?
Mr. GRAVES. I believe she was going to catch a bus. I would have to
see her affidavit to remember that exactly, but I think she was either
going home or coming from work, one or the other, is the reason for her
being at that location.
Mr. BELIN. Now you also later interviewed on that day several other
people in connection with the Tippit murder, did you not?
Mr. GRAVES. I talked to some; yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember who these were?
Mr. GRAVES. That would be Ted Callaway, Sam Guinyard, and Domingo
Benavides.
Mr. BELIN. Did any of those men come down to a lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. They did come down later, but I didn't have anything to do
with the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have anything to do with bringing them down to see a
lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. No; I did not.
Mr. BELIN. Did all the men come down to a lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. I think they did. I was told that they did, and I have not
seen anything authentic about it.
Mr. BELIN. Now, your report says two of the three men came down to the
city hall and gave affidavits on views of Oswald in the lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. That would be lineup.
Mr. BELIN. From my interpretation here from what we have, Ted Callaway
and Sam Guinyard gave affidavits, but Domingo Benavides did not. Is
there any particular reason that you know of why Benavides did not come
down to give an affidavit or view a lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. No; I wouldn't have any idea.