Testimony of L. C. Graves was taken at 3:10 p.m., on April 6, 1964, in
the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and
Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel
of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. Would you rise and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. GRAVES. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Would you state your name, for the reporter?
Mr. GRAVES. My name is L. C. Graves.
Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation, Mr. Graves?
Mr. GRAVES. I am a detective with the police department, city of Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. How old are you?
Mr. GRAVES. I am 45 years old.
Mr. BELIN. Were you born and raised in Texas?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes, sir; I was born and raised in Camp County, October 8,
1918.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go to school?
Mr. GRAVES. Leesburg--I mean to Pittsburg.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. GRAVES. I finished 10-1/2 years of schooling in Pittsburg and
Leesburg, then received a high school diploma after such time.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GRAVES. Then what did I do?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRAVES. Oh, let's see. From there I went into the CCC camp.
Mr. BELIN. For a period of several years?
Mr. GRAVES. Let's see, I think a couple of years, approximately.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GRAVES. I came out and stayed out about a couple of months and then
I joined the Texas National Guard, and shortly after that it mobilized
and I went into active service, at which time I stayed until I was
discharged after the war.
Mr. BELIN. Was this an honorable discharge?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What were your duties in the Army, say, generally?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, I was in the Infantry, and I was a mess sergeant, and
I cooked principally all the time I was in.
Mr. BELIN. You were the one we all complained about when the food
wasn't good?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes; if you want to put it that way. I got a few complaints.
Mr. BELIN. Then after your discharge, what did you do?
Mr. GRAVES. After my discharge, I came to Dallas, I married and went to
work for Interstate Theatres. First went to work for Railway Express
Agency here and worked for a short period of time and then I went to
work for Interstate Theatres.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do for Interstate?
Mr. GRAVES. Let me retract that. I believe I went to work for S. H.
Lynch Co. first and later changed to Paramount Distributors, and they
went broke, and then I went with Interstate Theatres, and that is where
I was working when I went to work for the police department.
Mr. BELIN. Were they all related? In other words, when you say
Paramount, was that----
Mr. GRAVES. No. S. H. Lynch Co. had a cigarette-candy item section
of the company in connection with the beer distributors. Paramount
Distributors was a vending machine company which went out of business,
which was a separate business, didn't have anything to do with the
movie industry or picture industry, so to speak.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do with that aspect of the business?
Mr. GRAVES. The Paramount Distributors, I was a bookkeeper.
Mr. BELIN. Then you went from there to where?
Mr. GRAVES. Interstate Theatres.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do for Interstate Theatres?
Mr. GRAVES. They call it an operating engineer, air-conditioning
operating engineer was the title, for it has to do with operating the
equipment for the purpose of air conditioning and refrigeration.
Mr. BELIN. Of theatres?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Then from there you went to the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes; that's right.
Mr. BELIN. What year was that?
Mr. GRAVES. October 31, 1949.
Mr. BELIN. And you have been with the Dallas Police Department ever
since?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Graves, were you on duty on November 22, 1963?
Mr. GRAVES. No.
Mr. BELIN. Was that an off day for you, or what?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes; it was.
Mr. BELIN. When did you go to work, if at all?
Mr. GRAVES. About 2 o'clock that day.
Mr. BELIN. Had you already heard the news of the assassination?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, yes. When I came to work, I had already heard. That
is the reason I went to work, as a matter of fact.
Mr. BELIN. On November 22, 1963, could you state what you did after you
got to the Dallas Police Station?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, the first thing that I did was take a statement from,
I believe her name was, Helen Markham.
Let me see; yes, I took a statement from Miss or Mrs. Helen Markham.
Mr. BELIN. How did you happen to see Mrs. Markham or Miss Markham?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, of course you have to be there to realize the mass
confusion, but a squad uniform officer had brought this lady in and she
was quite hysterical, and they put her in a little room, just across
the hall from our bureau, and notified the lieutenant that they had her
over there, and when I walked in they told me to go talk to this lady
and take an affidavit from her, which I did.
Mr. BELIN. You say she was quite hysterical. Describe her actions.
Mr. GRAVES. She was crying and upset, naturally.
Mr. BELIN. Was she saying anything at all?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, I don't recall exactly what she was saying--what most
hysterical women say--wringing her hands and talking about the shooting.
Mr. BELIN. You took an affidavit from her?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, I held a showup along with Leavelle and the Chief and
Captain Fritz, and I don't remember who else, about a roomful.
Mr. BELIN. Could you state what occurred in that showup? How many
people were in this showup?
Mr. GRAVES. I don't remember exactly how many people.
Mr. BELIN. You mean of the men that were actually lined up?
Mr. GRAVES. I don't know. I believe four or five, I think. He was
identified as No. 2 man. Let me see, he was identified as No. 2 man in
a four-man lineup, yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know who the people were who were in this particular
lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. I don't know. Nobody but Oswald.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know that Lee Harvey Oswald was No. 2 man in that
lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have any recollection or notes which would in any
way give the approximate physical description of the other men in this
lineup?
Mr. GRAVES. No; I don't. I was present out in the front with Mrs.
Markham, and I don't remember exactly who talked to the people or men
that were on the stage. It is quite possible that they might have the
names of the other people that were in this lineup, but I don't myself.
I don't remember this physical description.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether or not they were all white men or
was one or more a Negro?
Mr. GRAVES. They were all white men.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember anything about their approximate ages?
Mr. GRAVES. No; I don't. Let me say this, that it would be very unusual
if we had a showup and asked a certain person or persons to appear
in this showup, if they put anything other than men that fit their
approximate size and age in there with them, and race and color, I
might add, because we just don't operate that way.
Mr. BELIN. What is your general mode of operation with regard to
showups? Perhaps you could tell us this.
Mr. GRAVES. Yes; I sure can. When we want to show a person up, we call
the jail supervisor and tell him what we want and who we want in the
showup, and to put two or three or four other people with him, the
approximate age, size, and so forth.
And they do that for us, and we--the only contact, the only dealings we
have had with them is talking to them while they are on the stage.
Mr. BELIN. When you say the approximate age or size, do you specify
what age or size you want?
Mr. GRAVES. Well, it is not necessary, because they are looking at the
man that you are bringing down.