"The Carpathian Walnut in Indiana." The first part of it, the
introduction, covers pretty much the same thing we have heard before
from some of the other speakers about the Carpathian strains in this
country.
The Carpathian Walnut in Indiana
W. B. WARD
Extension Horticulturist, Purdue University
West Lafayette, Indiana
The Carpathian or hardy Persian walnuts (_Juglans regia_), as grown in
Indiana, are nearly all seedling trees resulting from the desire of some
hobbyists to try something new. Other than a few exceptions, most of the
seedling trees were planted during the period of 1934 to 1938. Credit is
due to the Wisconsin Horticultural Society in offering the seedling nuts
for sale and from these plantings numerous trees grew and fruited. A few
test winters, with the temperature as low as minus 20 degrees F., left
only those trees hardy in wood and bud. The seedling trees under
observation have been fruiting for the past six to eight years, with
some trees producing as much as five to six bushels of nuts per year.
The tree grows best in well drained, fertile soil and a bluegrass sod.
Small amounts of nitrate fertilizer, about the same quantity used on
fruit trees, have stimulated growth and no doubt have helped in the
sizing up of the nuts. The tree does not do well under cultivation or
mulching, as winter injury to the tree has been recorded when compared
to bluegrass sod. There is also a possibility that the tree will respond
to applications of liquid or soluble nitrates when mixed in spray
materials. Six walnut trees were sprayed with "Nu Green" on May 9th and
May 28th, 1950, using the same mixture as is recommended for
apples--five pounds per 100 gallons of spray mix. These trees were
observed weekly, and by late August had made more growth and gave better
response than trees in comparable unsprayed rows. As the walnut trees
are of different varieties, no definite comparisons may be drawn, but
the trees so sprayed outgrew the unsprayed plot, although both plots had
received a spring application of fertilizer of equal amount.
Set of Fruit Depends on Pollination
The best yields of fruit are found on trees that have a good pollinator
close by. Oftentimes the catkins of the Persians dry up, fail to shed
pollen when the pistillate flowers are receptive or fail to produce
staminate flowers. It was noted early this spring that the catkins on
the Persians were very few. Pollen was gathered from the butternut
(_Juglans cinerea_) for pollinating the pistillate flowers that opened
early. The mid-season flowers were pollenized with black walnut
(_Juglans nigra_), and the later blooms were fertilized with pollen from
the heartnut (_Juglans sieboldiana cordiformis_). Many of the pistillate
flowers were bagged and remained receptive for a long period.
The best set of fruit on trees this year is on trees that have either
the black walnut or the heartnut near by as pollinizers. The pollen from
the butternut seemed to dwarf the fruit size on those trees where the
pistillate flowers were bagged in the Purdue planting. We have little
doubt that the Persian walnut develops a preponderance of pistillate
flowers and relies on pollen from kindred species for a good set of
fruit.
Nut Displays Have Educational Value
The interest in the Persian walnut in Indiana has developed to the
extent that several commercial fruit growers have set out small
acreages. Most of the trees are seedlings from trees previously fruited,
although several growers have budded or grafted the better seedlings on
the native black walnut. The public has become enthused through the
various displays at local and state fairs and through the state nut show
now being held annually. The exhibits have brought out some very
desirable seedlings, each listed under the owner's name. Some of the
seedling nuts have averaged about two inches in diameter, and 12 year
old trees have produced as much as 50 pounds of cured nuts.
The largest Persian walnut tree found in Indiana is at Lafayette, it
being 12 inches in diameter and possibly 40 feet high. This tree has
been fruiting for the past 15 years. There are probably five or six
bushels of nuts on this large tree at the present time. This tree was
placed as a yard tree for its ornamental value and for the fruit.
Numerous persons have inquired about the Persian walnut as a specimen
tree in their landscaping program and the demand far exceeds the supply.
As many of the elms, oaks, and some chestnuts are going out from disease
troubles, the Persians may be used as a replacement. The food value of
the walnut compares very favorably with that of other native nuts,
according to Dr. A. S. Colby, of the University of Illinois.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
% Water % Protein % Fat % Carbo- % Ash No. Calories
hydrate per Pound
Persian walnut 2.8 16.7 64.4 14.8 1.3 3305
Black walnut 2.5 27.6 56.3 11.7 1.9 3105
Hickory nut 3.7 15.4 67.4 11.4 2.1 3495
Pecan 3.0 11.0 71.2 13.3 1.5 3633
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nut Data Important in Classification
Three students enrolled in Horticulture have classified several of the
seedlings. Paul Bauer, 1947-48, and Edward Burns and Gilbert Whitsel,
1949-50, have been using such information for their special project work
as graduate and undergraduate students. These workers found a difference
in the habits and performance of the seedling trees and two such
examples follow.
Nut Data Sheet
1. Common Name: _Fateley No. 1_
2. Scientific Name: _Juglans regia_
3. Source or Owner: _Nolan Fateley_
City: _Franklin_
State: _Indiana_
4. Average Size: inches 1.7x1.8
5. Average Number Per Lb.: 23
6. Average Wt. Each Nut: 15.8 _gm._
7. Shell
Texture: _Wrinkled and furrowed_
Crackability: _Very good, thin shell_
Separation: _Very good_
Average Wt. Per Nut: 7.1 _gm._
8. Kernel
Color: _Light tan_
Quality: _Very good, bland_
Average Wt. Per Nut: 8.7 _gm._
9. Percent Kernel: 40.5%
10. Remarks:
_Exceptionally large, well formed kernel, appealing taste.
Bore 50 lb._
_1949. Tree set as 1 year seedling 1939._ (_Carpathian strain._)
Nut Data Sheet
1. Common Name: _Fateley No. 3_
2. Scientific Name: _Juglans regia_
3. Source or Owner: _Nolan Fateley_
City: _Franklin_
State: _Indiana_
4. Average Size: inches 1.3x1.54 _long_
5. Average Number Per Lb.: 34
6. Average Wt. Each Nut: 12.3 _gm._
7. Shell
Texture: _Smoothly wrinkled_
Crackability: _Very good, paper thin shell_
Separation: _Very good to best_
Average Wt. Per Nut: 6.9 _gm._
8. Kernel
Color: _Light tan_
Quality: _Good, desirable taste_
Average Wt. Per Nut: 6.4 _gm._
9. Percent Kernel: 54.5%
10. Remarks:
_Fairly large, well filled, attractive shape and size with a thin shell.
This seedling placed first at the Indiana State Fair and the State Nut
Show, 1949. Tree medium in size, planted as one year seedling in 1939.
This tree bore 24 pounds of cured nuts in 1949 and has been in good
production for 7 years. (Carpathian strain.)_
The descriptions given of the two Fateley trees are typical of some of
the forty seedlings coming from various parts of Indiana, as shown in
the following list.
The distribution of the Persian walnut to the public depends on the
ability of the nurserymen to propagate and list the available varieties
or unnamed seedlings. There is a great demand and a wonderful
opportunity for the hardy Persian walnuts all over the Middle West or
where apples will produce, not only for the nutritious fruits but for
the ornamental value and for something different.
Indiana Counties with Carpathian Walnuts Under Observation and Test
(North to South and West to East on Map)
Northern
Porter (on Lake Michigan)
Elkhart (adjoins Michigan)
La Grange (adjoins Michigan)
Kosciusko
Whitley
Allen (adjoins Ohio)
Miami (Peru here)
Wells
Central
Tippecanoe (Lafayette here)
Carroll
Howard
Grant
Delaware
Henry
Wayne (adjoins Ohio)
Marion (Indianapolis here)
Rush
Johnson (Franklin here)
_Southern_
Greene (Linton here)
Monroe (Bloomington here)
Brown
Gibson (adjoins Illinois)
Pike
Posey (adjoins Illinois and Kentucky)
Vanderburg (Evansville here)
Warrick
Spencer (Rockport here)
Harrison
(Last 5 counties are on Ohio river,
opposite Kentucky.)
DR. MacDANIELS: Is Mr. I. W. Short of Taunton, Massachusetts here, or
does he have his paper here?
MR. McDANIEL: I haven't received it.
There is a paper here, however, "Notes on Nut Growing in New Hampshire,"
by Matthew Lahti of Boston, Massachusetts. Mr. Wellman.
MR. WELLMAN: This is very short. It is just a report of bad winters in
New Hampshire. Mr. Lahti I knew in Boston. His farm is in Wolfeboro, New
Hampshire, about 75 or a hundred miles north of Boston.
Notes on Nut Growing in New Hampshire
MATTHEW LAHTI, Wolfeboro, New Hampshire
I will bring up to date my experience on nut growing in Wolfeboro, N.
H., and supplement my reports for the years 1947 and 1948.
We had late frosts this spring, so that there is not a peach on any of
my peach trees this year. This may also account for the fact that there
are no black walnuts either on the Tasterite, the wood of which has
withstood the winters very well, or on the Thomas. The Thomas black
walnut which I reported in 1948 as having suffered no winter injury the
previous winter, apparently did suffer considerable damage, which became
evident later. It has borne no nuts since, and there is a lot of dead
wood this year and the leaves are sickly looking. I am afraid that the
tree is going to die.
The filberts, Medium Long, Red Lambert, and No. 128 Rush x Barcelona,
which started to bear in 1947, have since then borne a few nuts each
year, but the crop is not heavy enough to recommend them for planting in
our climate. While the wood suffers no winter injury, the catkins for
the most part get winter killed and, consequently, there is a very
sparse crop. What is needed for northern latitudes is a filbert that
will ripen in our fairly short growing season, and whose catkins are
immune to winter kill. The Winkler seems to be more hardy than the
others, but the nuts do not ripen. This year even the Winkler catkins
were killed, although the catkins of a wild hazel growing nearby were
not.
I have two Crath Persian walnuts planted in 1938 which are the survivors
of perhaps a dozen seedlings. These two trees have shown no injury. One
is bearing seven nuts this year for the first time, and the other one,
bearing for the second year, has 80 nuts on it at the present time. Last
year the squirrels got all the nuts so that I could not evaluate them,
but I will take precautions to save some this year.
The Broadview Persian walnut has thirty nuts on it this year, but the
wood of the Broadview definitely is not hardy in our climate.
Summing up my experience with the various nut trees as previously
reported, I would say that our climate is not suited for commercial nut
growing, but for home use named varieties of butternuts and hickories
that crack out easily and possibly one or two of the Crath walnuts
should give satisfactory results. My chief difficulty with hickories has
been the poor union at the graft, resulting in slow starvation and death
in a few years. I have only three left out of approximately 25 trees
that I have planted.
MR. CORSAN: A professor from the University of New Hampshire wrote to me
that they were very much interested in planting a nut arboretum. Does
anybody know what result came of it? I sent them some hybrids of the
Japanese heartnut (female blossom) crossed with our native butternut
(male blossom).
DR. MacDANIELS: I guess they are somewhat interested. They have very
little possibility of growing very much except the butternuts, and
sometimes hybrid filberts.
MR. WELLMAN: I have a friend who is up a little farther north than that,
in Woodsville, and they have been urging him to set out filberts for
wildlife food there, and he has shown me some of those that he has
started. It's been quite a movement up there. I don't know how wide. He
has about a hundred seedlings that are used for propagation by the
state.
Is the Farmer Missing Something?
JOHN DAVIDSON, Xenia, Ohio
(Read by title)
The farmer is a specialist; a producer of edible crops. Like any other
specialist, his thinking tends to be channeled along the lines of his
specialty, to the exclusion of other lines.
For example, the average farmer probably knows little and cares less
about teleology, metaphysics, or, let us say, forestry. He is a farmer.
He makes his living by raising crops. And yet, a better knowledge and
practice of forestry will not only make him a better farmer wherever he
is located but, in certain locations, this knowledge and practice is
absolutely essential to his continued existence.
In a recent decision of the U. S. Supreme Court upholding a decision
made by the Supreme Court of the State of Washington, a principle has
been approved which may have a profound influence upon our future
well-being. It affirmed the constitutionality of a Washington State law
which requires the owners of land used for commercial logging to provide
for its reforestation.
Such a law is novel indeed. What? May private owners of the earth's
resources not use or destroy them as they see fit? The court, in effect,
says they have no such right. In the court's own words, the "inviolate
compact between the dead, the living, and the unborn requires that we
leave to the unborn something more than debts and depleted natural
resources. Surely, where natural resources can be utilized, _and at the
same time perpetuated_ for future generations, what has been called
'constitutional morality' requires that we do so."
The New York Times, in commenting upon this revolutionary but perfectly
sane decision, says: "Time is truly running short; the annual cut of
saw-timber, with natural losses, is 50% greater than annual growth....
If the individual forestland owner is too lazy, short-sighted, or
indifferent to act, the Federal Government will have to enter the
picture."
It is a complex picture. The American farm owner is, by every
implication, also involved along with the forestland owner. He, too, has
a duty to the unborn, but it is an opportunity as well as a duty. It is
only because of what J. Russell Smith calls his insane obstinacy, that
the average farmer is now operating a one-story agriculture in place of
a two-story agriculture. If he were thinking and doing more about his
debt to the unborn, he would also be serving himself better.
I am convinced that the farmer is the key man in forest husbandry. And
the best way to interest him in tree planting is through his
specialty--through _crop_ production. A _two-story_ agriculture! Tree
crops along with other crops!
The farmers' education along this line has been very inadequate. We have
been very stupid. Can we never learn to begin, as Hitler began--as the
Russians are even now beginning--with the nation's children?
Perhaps we are learning a little. It is heartening to know that school
and community forests are fast increasing in number, notably in New
England. When fully used and well managed, they can work a revolution in
the thinking of the young people who are so fortunate as to have some of
their schooling out in the open. These future American leaders are
learning at first hand through the ways of the woods how to make the
work of their hands live far beyond the span of their lives.
Perhaps, as the result of this training early in life, a new interest
among the farmers will emerge and some of our sins of omission will be
remedied. As a planter of trees for the future, the American farmer,
both of yesterday and today, has notoriously, thoughtlessly, and
disastrously failed both his children and himself. By all standards, he
should be the first-ranking tree planter of the land. As a matter of
fact, it is practically impossible to interest the average farmer at
all. State experiment stations and forestry departments make some effort
to stimulate interest in the planting of trees by furnishing seedling
stocks of forest trees at nominal prices and by issuing occasional
bulletins. However well intentioned and, within their limits, well done
these bulletins may be, the fact remains that in proportion to their
numbers, farmers are still not notable planters of trees. Perhaps one
reason for this failure is that most of the literature upon the subject
seems aimed at lumbermen, and not at farmers. As to the bulletins which
are aimed primarily at the farmer, examples of advice on forestry which
is given in these rather too specialized and somewhat near-sighted
publications are typically of the following kind: "Fence off the woodlot
and never pasture it," "Use your best land for field crops; your waste
land for trees." "You are interested in nuts? You can not have nuts and
timber, too."
It is evident that these rules are prepared by foresters--not farmers.
Is it any wonder that the inquiring farmer finds them rather
frustrating?
It should be remembered that practices which are valid and helpful in
the care of an already existing forest or woodlot where mature growth is
periodically harvested and where young sprouts are encouraged for
replenishment may be of little use in the management of an entirely new
planting of certain kinds of trees where cultivation, at least for a
time, is necessary. Deep-rooted trees, for example. Such rules have been
of little use to me in my own planting of American black walnuts upon an
Ohio farm. Indeed, to have followed them would have been disastrous.
My planting is not large. It is modest enough to be within the power of
nearly any farmer. It has been treated as a farmer would treat it,
without too much pampering. We now have a few more than three thousand
trees planted upon forty acres. Most of them are now fifteen years old.
Here are some of the things we have learned in fifteen years from our
trees:
1. Trees spaced 80 feet apart in good deep soil have not made as much
growth as seedling black walnut trees spaced 8 feet apart in rows 20
feet apart, also in good soil. However, these wider spaced trees are
grafted pecans and Persian walnuts.
2. The seedling trees which stand in good soil have made surprisingly
good growth. Some better than 8 inches diameter, breast height. One
measured tree has grown 7 feet 1/2 inch this year to date--Aug. 20. (No
fertilizer used, but cultivated.) Those which stand in shallow, thin
soil are dwarfs, worthless. Walnuts have deep taproots. They need deep,
rich earth.
3. Trees grown from planted seed make the best timber trees. Upon the
other hand, if production of known quality is the primary objective,
grafted trees of known varieties must be planted. The seedling _of good
parentage_ is an exciting gamble. It may be, and usually is a
commonplace producer of nuts. Upon the other hand, it is more likely
than the tree of poor parentage to win a place among the named
varieties, set aside for propagation by budding or grafting upon other
stocks.
4. Walnut seedlings like human beings tend to show marked inherited
trends, erratic and undependable though they may be. Thus, seedlings
grown from vigorous and upright trees _tend_ to be vigorous and upright.
Conversely, trees of poor parentage, either as timber or nut producers,
will tend to reproduce the poor characteristics of their parent. This is
more markedly true where the parent tree stands isolated from the pollen
of other walnut trees of the same species.
5. I have found no real evidence that walnuts of our planting are toxic
to other trees standing immediately beside them. To test this, we
planted a few apple, peach, and plum trees in the walnut rows. They
still stand literally arm in arm. This is, of course, all wrong. No tree
should be so crowded. The apple trees monopolize space by excessive
lateral growth. The plums send up unwanted shoots from their roots. The
peach trees are passing out. Two or three of the apple trees are half
dead. Others still live, but I am not very hopeful that, after the
walnut trees are more mature, any of the apples will survive. The usual
diseases and insects, plus shading by the walnuts seems to account for
most if not all of the dead trees to date.
6. Grass growth is excellent right up to the trunks of all of the trees.
It has never been necessary for us to lose the use of the land upon
which the trees are planted. While the trees were young, of course, no
pasturing was permitted. The land between the rows was cultivated. In
these strips we raised berries and other crops. Now that the trees are
tall enough to be beyond the danger of damage from livestock, we graze
the pasture under and between the trees. No damage is evident from
trampled earth (the walnuts are deep-rooted) and the hazard of fire is
eliminated because there is now no need to mow excessive grass, weeds,
or brush.
7. The most precocious seedling walnuts began to bear nuts at about 7
years of age. New bearers are coming in each year. All are still counted
as adolescent trees, yet, last fall, picking up the nuts from none but
trees marked for their better quality of nuts, we gathered some 40
bushels of nuts in the shell.
8. Today, we can count about 2,000 walnut trees which promise to be of
good timber quality 35 years hence. At a reasonable estimate, 1,000
trees will then survive, be 50 years old, be worth $50.00 each, at
present prices. Total, $50,000.00. This represents an annual increment
in value of $1,000.00 per year for the 20 acres which are closely
planted to black walnuts. Can the average farmer _save_ that much in his
lifetime? Can even the exceptional farmer do it on 20 acres? With as
little investment of money and work? If so, how?
Any farmer can do as well, or better, without losing a single
immediately productive acre. Why doesn't he?
The answer is in the very nature of the farmer's business. As has
already been said, he is primarily a producer of food. If trees stand in
the way, he chops them down. He has always chopped them down. It has
become a habit. If the farmer is to be persuaded to change his ways and
turn to planting trees, instead of destroying them, I repeat, the
entering wedge into his interest will be, I believe, through
dual-purpose trees--trees for food crops, as well as for timber crops.
Of these species, the black walnut of eastern America is probably the
most outstanding one of all, at least in the mid-section of America. The
butternut--"white walnut"--flourishes better in the north. The chestnut
is another--a tree almost literally raised from the dead by the efforts
of a few miracle workers like Dr. Arthur H. Graves of the Connecticut
Experiment Station, who, with others of his kind, has been in the throes
of producing a blight-resistant, tall-growing hybrid timber tree out of
the bushy Chinese chestnut, a producer of the sweetest of nuts. The
pecan, too, is being pushed northward. Great groves of wild pecans have
firmly established themselves along the Ohio River. Their timber is
fair; not wonderful. The mulberry tree is still another. The American
species produces a timber which is remarkably durable under ground. Its
fruit is not sufficiently appreciated. It makes an unsurpassed jam or
jelly or pie when combined with a tart fruit like the cherry, grape, or
currant. And who does not know the precious wood of the wild cherry? Its
rosy warmth of color is the pride of the "antique" connoisseur; its
fruit beloved by birds and squirrels; its juice, the secret of the
cherry cordial. Even that foreigner, the Persian "English" walnut, of
Carpathian strains, is pushing north into Canada and the East Coast
region. Its wood, too, under the name of "Circassian," is famous for its
figured beauty[3].
[3] Some of the "Circassian walnut" is another genus, the wingnut
(Pterocarya).--Ed.
One might go on and on with a list of trees and tree crops easily
available, mostly native, all of which should be both figuratively and
actually right down the farmer's alley.
Perhaps the education which can come through the agency of many school
forests will in good time turn the attention of young and impressionable
minds to the potential wealth to be found in the trees. Normally, the
young, who, of all people, should be forward-looking, are least
concerned with the long-term future. They are not given to making plans
or building estates for their grandchildren. As a consequence, the
planting of trees is traditionally taken over by the aged, or at least
by the mature. This is all wrong. The young farmer who plants
interesting trees is preparing for some of the most exciting and
prideful moments in the years which follow. And he is also building, at
low cost, and with little labor, a priceless estate.
How to Lose Money in Manufacturing Filbert Nut Butter
CARL WESCHCKE, St. Paul, Minnesota
Inasmuch as there are so many words of wisdom and advice showing the
reader how to make money in different ways, I have started a new line of
caption with the hope that it might serve as a warning for those who
would stick their necks out, as the term applies to those people who
venture beyond safe margins of restraint. Since this is a recital of
facts, and since Professor George L. Slate has requested me to report on
my experiences, I submit the following for what interest it may hold for
the readers.
Most ventures are backed by optimism of some sort or other, coupled with
some experience, capital, hopes, and ambition. The project which sparked
the entrance into the manufacture of filbert butter was the success that
I was having with hybridizing our best native hazels with the best known
filberts, such as crossing of the wild American hazel with Barcelona,
DuChilly, Italian Red, Purple Aveline, Red Aveline, White Aveline, also
filbert strains from J. U. Gellatly of Westbank, B. C., Canada, and
strains from J. F. Jones, hybrids, European strains of filberts from the
Carpathian mountains, and any right pollen which could be obtained from
known filbert parents. Today we have over 2,000 seedling hybrids of
which between 500 and 600 have come into bearing. Some of these are
really surprising varieties of the combination hazels and filberts, but
a complete history of the hybridization work and the results really
deserve a separate account to be published some time in the future. I
merely mention this because the success of these plants in producing
nuts leads me to contemplate the future production of these hybrid nuts,
called Hazilberts,[4] on a large scale.
[4] Another coined name, by Mr. Gellatly, is "Filazel."
My problem was to engineer a scheme whereby I could interest farmers in
setting out small acreages of these plants and guarantee that there
would be a market when the plants produced nuts, which would be in about
three years from the time they were planted. Seeing that the filbert
producers in the west were struggling for a better market, since
conditions were not too favorable for the filbert in its competition
with the foreign nuts and the California produced Persian walnut, I
decided that nuts in the shell were a little bit old-fashioned. Many of
our prominent members of the NNGA have from time to time advised the
marketing of nut kernels rather than nuts in their natural containers,
and I thought a step in the right direction would be to manufacture a
ready-to-eat product from the kernels. And what could be nicer than a
butter similar to peanut butter?
So I began scouring the market for a grinding machine that would grind
filberts to the consistency of a smooth peanut butter. My first machine
was a Hobart peanut grinder. When buying this machine the mistake I made
was to let the agent of the manufacturer demonstrate how good it was to
grind Spanish peanuts; I should have had it tested on filberts as they
are much tougher, even though they do carry more oil. This machine was
installed, but it was a complete failure and I decided to buy more
expensive machinery, and also put in a cracking plant and buy the nuts
by the ton or carload, if necessary, directly from the growers on the
Pacific Coast or through their organization, the Northwest Nut Growers.
I located a satisfactory machine for the purpose, which required about 7
horse power to run. Since this was during the war and no motors of the
right speed and power were available at the time, I set up my own
generating plant, using a 25 kilowatt generator driven by a Diesel
engine which generated direct current so that I could use direct current
motors which I already had among my machinery supplies. Then a
separating machine, which required a 10 horse power motor just to
operate the fan, which is part of that equipment, was purchased. Also, a
nut cracking machine was secured from a West Coast manufacturer. Along
with tanks and containers and other necessary equipment, all set up in a
little factory building I had available for that purpose, I commenced
the manufacture of filbert butter on a commercial scale.
The product was declared by every one to be excellent. We were quite
sure of this since we had taken pains to buy up any product that
purported to be a nut butter, and had tested those products in many ways
to assure ourselves that we had a product superior to anything that we
could find on the market at that time. The Owens Illinois Glass Company
designed our label and gave us the benefit of their experience with
containers. Then we placed our initial order for glass containers and
re-shipping cases. Every detail in handling this material was properly
taken care of, to insure that if the orders came rolling in we would be
able to supply the demand and have our shipments reach the consumer in
first class shape.
Then we initiated an advertising campaign, coupled with sampling, and
received many fine letters which encouraged us to hire a salesman who
sold the product to the stores in the Twin City area so as to have
proper distribution. Advertising was done also in two national
magazines, so we sat back, hopefully anticipating the big orders that we
were soon to receive. The reorders from the local stores came in slowly,
too slowly for our set-up. We received suggestions from the store
keepers and from other persons that perhaps the product was too high
priced, so we made experiments in other towns where we set the price so
low that there was no profit. In fact, there would be a loss of money
were we to do business on that basis. Yet there was no stimulation of
sales due to this reduction in price.
Many good suggestions came in; among these was the suggestion that the
product lent itself nicely to an ice cream topping; by mixing it with
honey or with syrup we interested our largest manufacturer of ice cream
in this locality and he did a lot of experimental selling. He was very
cooperative. He also sold it in his branch stores as milk shakes;
everybody liked it. No complaints whatsoever except that the manager
said it was too expensive to compete with a chocolate flavor on which he
made much more money. Finally this whole thing fizzled out and was
discontinued.
The next experiment was with candy; as a candy center it was one of the
finest tasting confections that had ever been made, but the oil which
would ooze through the chocolate coatings prevented the practical use of
it. You see, the filbert has about 65% oil, and when it is ground into
a fine, creamy butter, this oil will come out and sometimes be an inch
or more in depth over the top of the butter in the glass container in
which it was marketed. So we investigated several methods by which we
could eliminate the oil. We could pour it off and sell the oil
separately; we could emulsify the product with the addition of certain
emulsifiers, so as to keep the oil mixed with the starch and protein of
the filbert nut. We tried many ways; there is only one method that we
haven't used and that is to combine solidified or hydrogenized peanut
oil with the filbert butter in order to prevent this liquid oil from
rising to to the top of the product. The reason we did not do this is
quite apparent--we did not want to mix peanuts and filberts, as we
considered peanut butter a cheaper and inferior product. We could not
hope to compete with peanut butter with the prices already set for
peanut butter recognized by the trade.
Among the products that came to our attention, however, was one which
had both filbert butter and solidified peanut oil in it. When we tested
this product among many of our friends, they declared it tasted too much
like peanut butter. It spoiled the delicate, fine flavor of the natural
filbert butter (which we were marketing without adding any sort of
seasoning, and without roasting the product the way peanuts are roasted
before they are ground into butter.)
Now, if any of you readers think that we have left out something
important which would have insured the success had we done it that way,
we would certainly like to hear from you, or we have some nice machinery
that we will sell cheap in case you want to experiment with it yourself.
I would be the last one to condemn the future possibility of producing a
commercial nut butter, and yet it is strange that the only successful
nut butter is not a nut butter at all. Peanut butter is not a nut butter
because peanuts are a legume like a pea or bean. To my knowledge, we do
not have any nut butters on the market today with the exception of the
cashew nut butter, which recently had a distribution in our locality,
but which seems now to have run its course much as our products did. We
bought the cashew butter and tried to interest everybody to use it, just
to see whether it was any different than our product in its popularity.
In our meager tests we found that the filbert butter was slightly more
popular than the cashew, since the cashew reminded people too much of
peanuts again. It was also very expensive. However, there must be a way
to make a satisfactory butter out of filberts or hybrid nuts, as they
carry the hope of the cheapest nut product, which is fundamentally
necessary to manufacture a popular food item.
The method of propagation of the Hazilbert is by layers instead of
grafting--layering is a cheaper and more satisfactory method. Also, the
nuts are the most satisfactory to crack as they have no inner partitions
which would require intricate machinery to extract the kernel. Their
keeping quality is excellent; we have tested this out over a number of
years, and filbert butter properly processed will easily keep a year
without turning rancid or having an unfavorable flavor. The tonnage of
nuts that can be produced on an acre of land is unbelievably high. I
have measured individual plants and their production, and the area that
they covered, and it is safe to say that we can expect to produce a ton
of nuts in the shell per acre in favorable locations on good deep soil.
Even at 10c per pound for the nuts this is a good return. New methods
of gathering the nuts after they fall from the involucre or husk are
being discovered and improved by the western growers from time to time,
so that the old expensive method of hand-picking is being eliminated.
This should make the filbert even cheaper to harvest.
It is not my intention here to discourage the manufacture of filbert
butter, but to point out the difficulty that I have had personally to
promote the idea in a commercial way. Neither is it my intention to
stimulate too much interest in the planting of the new filbert varieties
which are still under test. I feel that it is necessary to test a plant
for at least a five-year period before it can be singled out as a plant
to propagate. We have not yet reached the point where we care to sell
these plants, as much better ones might crop up among the untested
plants, which number over 1000, and which have never yet had a chance to
bear so as to show what they can do. At some future time I expect to
write an article on filbert hybrid culture (Hazilberts) for the whole
central, north, and northeastern part of the United States, and at that
time I believe that tests will have progressed to such a point that
recommendations can be made.
DR. MacDANIELS: There was one more paper that the Secretary has that was
not scheduled, from Mr. Elton E. Papple, of Ontario. Title, "Filberts,
Walnuts, and Chestnuts on the Niagara Peninsula."
Filberts, Walnuts and Chestnuts on the Niagara Peninsula
ELTON E. PAPPLE, Cainsville, Ontario
My brother and I have been interested in growing nut trees for some
time, and have had some interesting experiences and some success. A few
years ago, Mr. Slate sent us from Geneva some varieties of filberts
which he considered quite hardy. We purchased some from Mr. Gellatly in
Westbank, British Columbia, some from Mr. Troup, Jordan Station, Ontario
(near Vineland); also from J. F. Jones Nursery, then in Lancaster, Pa.
Mr. Slate sent us scionwood and we grafted these scions in the spring
and layered them shortly afterwards. By the following spring they were
rooted well enough to be planted out in the nursery row. This gave us
our material to work with, and about the third year we started making
crosses between different varieties. The first year we obtained quite a
few crosses, and had a good number of these seeds to germinate in the
spring after taking from stratified storage and planting them in the
nursery row. These trees have now started to come into bearing, and they
promise to be better than their parents in some instances.
We made a number of crosses since, but we have been very busy and the
young trees of these crosses have just about perished through neglect.
In this last lot we had a cross of the filbert on the beak or horn
hazel[5], and of a cluster of three, had one to grow, which in turn was
promptly eaten off by a rabbit or rodent of some description. The reason
for this cross originally, was that, so far as we could see in the last
fifteen years the male catkins never winter-kill; whereas filbert trees
are subject to this hazard. Some of the filbert varieties have the
ability to withstand changeable weather and not lose all of their
catkins. Others will winter-kill in the wood as well. We have removed
all our Barcelona and Du Chilly trees because they winter-killed almost
one hundred percent.
[5] Corylus rostrata.--Ed.
With the experience we have had with filberts, we believe that before
they could be commercialized, it would be necessary to have hardy
catkins that will withstand changeable weather: not altogether
resistance to extreme cold, but to temperatures that vary from warm to
freezing in a few hours. A mulch does help where the warm period is for
a short duration; but last winter we had a week or more of warm weather
in January, with rain and then a cold snap. Even then, some of the
catkins on the German varieties and others came through fairly well.
Selection of varieties for machine cracking or eating from the shell
should determine varieties one should grow, but hardiness should be the
key factor in selecting varieties. The following table shows some of the
crosses we made. Most of these seedlings have borne a few nuts to date,
but we cannot give anything definite as to whether the catkins are
hardier than those of the parents.
Table of Crosses:
Female Male
Italian Red Medium Long
" " Red Lambert
Medium Long " "
Cosford " "
" Vollkugel
Comet Cosford
" Vollkugel
Craig Red Lambert
Gellatly Vollkugel
Carey Red Lambert
Fertile de Coutard " "
Barcelona Vollkugel
Seedling (W) Red Lambert
" (E) Vollkugel
I would like to make a few remarks on our heartnut and Carpathian walnut
trees. Most of the heartnut varieties came from B. C. and we think that
Mr. Gellatly has some of the best obtainable anywhere in North America.
The Bates heartnut from J. F. Jones Nursery seems to be very hardy here,
and quality of nut is very good. We have found--comparing a heartnut
rootstock which grows two weeks later in the fall than some of our black
walnuts--that the same variety of heartnut will live one hundred percent
on black walnut stock and winter-kill severely on the heartnut
rootstock. We believe that the root system for the north, either
heartnut or black, should be carefully selected for its growth habits
before considering its use as material for rootstock in grafting or
budding. I might add here that we also found that if the variety of
heartnut was not hardy, it did not help any in regard to hardiness to
use black walnut at the rootstock. There is a good crop of heartnuts on
the trees here this year.
In grafting Carpathian walnuts on black, we found that some varieties
graft or take more readily than others. Also some would give a better
union. The Broadview winter-kills with us, but it is not hard to graft
it almost one hundred percent. We have quite a number of the Carpathians
bearing and they seem to be quite hardy, of good size and quality, and
bear every year. As the catkins were killed on all but one variety, due
to the unseasonable weather experienced last winter, there will be only
a light crop. The hardy variety has late blooming male catkins which
might account for its catkin hardiness. It is of good size and excellent
flavor. Possibilities for commercial planting of these Carpathian
varieties in the north appear promising in favored localities.
Our Chinese chestnut trees seem to be hardy and this year have produced
a few burs for the first time. We have planted out about sixty young
trees this year and they are all growing nicely. The weather has been
wet and just the thing to get them started.
Our hickory trees, which we grafted, are growing well and we set some
more out last year. When we started grafting hickories, we had one
hundred percent failure, but kept at it until we got almost a perfect
take. The hickory seems very slow in forming a union. A lot can happen
to the graft before it gets started. Filberts graft as easily as apple.
Our findings in grafting nut trees are that any amateur can graft apple
trees, but nut trees are something different. We have a number of odds
and ends besides what has been mentioned.
Being a member of the N.N.G.A. has helped us in growing nut trees, and
the information in the Annual Reports should help anyone who has just
become interested in growing nut trees. The information is up-to-date
and fairly accurate. All one has to do is apply his findings to his own
planting.
MR. CORSAN: Doctor, in that same neighborhood is a man who called on me
who has a nut aboretum of 40 acres on Grand Island in the Niagara River.
That's above Niagara Falls, of course. I thought he'd call again, but I
didn't get his name, or at least I have lost it, and what do you think
he is growing in the way of nuts? Can anybody guess:
A MEMBER: Coconuts!
A MEMBER: Peanuts!
MR. CORSAN: I am growing coconuts in Florida--but on that one 40-acre
tract on Grand Island, New York--he lives in Buffalo--he is growing
evergreen nuts from Swiss stone pine (_Pinus cembra_), Korean pine,
Philippine pine, _Pinus Lambertiana_, _Pinus Monophylla_, _Pinus edulis_
and Digger pine (_Jeffreyi_). He is growing these evergreen pine nuts,
and he says he is making very good success of it.
MR. STERLING SMITH: Chas. F. Flanigen is his name. He's a member.
MR. WEBER: I'd like to ask the members, or those present, whether they
have failed to sign the registry of attendance.
DR. MacDANIELS: That ends the formal program this afternoon. It's always
been a criticism that things are too crowded. We have an opportunity now
for about half an hour to visit, look over exhibits and then later on we
will meet at six o'clock at The Stone Chimney.
(Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m., the Monday afternoon session was closed.)
MONDAY EVENING SESSION
DR. MacDANIELS: Without any question at all, I think, the most important
single consideration in determining the planting of nuts is the matter
of varieties, and I know that Dr. Crane has some ideas along that line
which he wishes to develop, and without any further talk on my part, I
will introduce Dr. Harley Crane, United States Department of
Agriculture.
(Applause.)
Nut Varieties: A Round Table Discussion
H. L. CRANE, Chairman
DR. CRANE: Mr. President, members of the Northern Nut Growers'
Association: I think it is, without a question of doubt, of the greatest
importance that we consider this question of varieties. After all, a
variety of any plant, in my opinion--which I think can be well
supported--is the most important thing that anyone can consider when it
comes to planting or developing a nut tree or a fruit tree or anything
in the fruit line. We can cultivate and fertilize and spray and do
everything that is needed to be done today in a modern fruit or nut
orchard farm, but if the variety is not suited to the climate, if it is
not a good variety, all our efforts that we make towards developing a
good tree and bringing it into fruiting are wasted.
I know that every one of you appreciates old varieties of corn and just
what has been done in our new varieties of hybrid corn, how hybrid corn
has changed the variety situation. Now it's hybrid this and hybrid that,
because hybrid varieties are generally superb.
Now, at this time in our nut work we are a long way yet from growing
good hybrid varieties, and I feel that there has been an effort on the
part of a lot of people to capitalize on the word "hybrid," because
hybrid corn has been such a success; and we figured that by carrying it
over into other plants, particularly the nut trees, we would get the
same remarkable performance from hybrid nuts that we do from hybrid
corn. But that is not the case.
We will come to that some day in the future, maybe--not in our lifetime,
but we will have hybrid varieties, because, after all, our great
improvements that have come in most of our plants, in corn and in wheat,
and in other plants, have come through the mixing of the genes, or the
characters that we have differing between species.
In our nuts, now, with the exception of hicans, we are still dealing
with pure species, and most, if not quite all, of our hicans are
worthless at the present time, largely because of sterility.
A good variety is the most outstanding thing that a horticulturist can
get or can have, because of the fact that it does have the character in
it which will make good growth. It will set a lot of nuts, it will carry
them through to maturity and it fills them, and if a variety doesn't do
that, it's not a good variety. Then after we get the nuts filled,
cracking quality, eating quality or oil content, and all these things
come next.
Now, this brings us next to the very important consideration of how are
we going to get a new good variety? Well, we can do that by selecting
from seedling nuts, or we can make controlled pollinations, crossing
different varieties, or varieties of different species, planting the
nuts or growing new trees and then selecting out of them those that have
the desirable characters.
But the first thing that we have got to do after we have either selected
the nut or made the hybrid and selected the nut is to evaluate the nut
as to whether it does have the first character, or proper characters,
that we ought to have in the nut. Does the crop ripen evenly? Whether it
hulls readily or comes free of the husk is a minor consideration,
provided that the nut itself has the desired characteristics. By that I
mean, does it have a good, large kernel which is well filled and bright
in color, or good flavor free from any objectionable characters? How
about its shell, percentage of shell in relation to kernel? Those are
some of the things that we have first got to consider.
That's what we can do in holding our contests to find good varieties.
Those are the ones submitted by growers and others. They are in
competition with nuts from other sources, and then the committee, or
someone, goes over and rates them, and places them, just as has been
done by Mr. Chase and others in their Carpathian walnut contest for
members of the Northern Nut Growers' Association.
Now, at the present time we have no standard method for evaluating the
nut. It's the opinion of the judges that do the scoring or rating which
determines the placing that the nuts get. Well, now, that's one of the
things that we members of the Northern Nut Growers' Association have
been working on for a long while, but we still haven't arrived at any
definite place.
Well, then, what's the next step that we take up? The next thing we do,
some growers find out that a Persian walnut from Mr. Shessler, for
example, placed second in the contest this year. They will get some
scions from Mr. Shessler, or somebody else, and they will make a few
grafts and grow some trees, and then they will make a study of these
nuts and find out how well they do and what they are like under their
conditions, and that's about as far as it goes.
Well, now, we cannot continue to do that kind of a job, as I see it. If
we go back over the reports of the Northern Nut Growers' Association we
will find that this matter of varieties is discussed in a very large
majority of the papers that have been presented. But those that have
taken part in investigations and in advising the public, like those in
the Extension Services of the colleges, those teaching in the
universities, those doing research, like myself, anybody who has to
answer correspondence from would-be nut growers, almost always get the
question, "What variety should I plant?" Then they put it up to me or
Dr. McKay, or Dr. Colby, and think that you could just name right and
left, and they ask, "What varieties shall we plant?" They put you right
down on the spot. Here you are, you are supposed to be a real expert,
know all things, and they are asking you for advice, and they will take
that advice and carry it out.
Now, today it puts a fellow in an awfully hot spot, because as you read
the reports of the Northern Nut Growers' Association you find that there
is absolutely no unanimity of opinion. Every grower is absolutely
certain in his ideas, and they are different from every other grower's.
Well, you can't recommend them all. It's really impossible. Now, this is
one of the things that the Northern Nut Growers have been dealing with
all of these years. This is the forty-first annual meeting. You'd have
thought in 41 years we'd have come up with something, but we haven't
yet. Now, I feel that it's about time that we stop and take stock of our
situation.
I am not going to do the talking tonight, I am just making a few
suggestions and trying to direct the thought a little bit. But one of
the nuts that we have done so much with and have said so much about in
our reports is the black walnut. It's very interesting to read the
reports on varieties of black walnuts and how those who have grown black
walnuts differ in their opinion, regardless. Well, I don't know. When I
get a letter coming in from most anywhere in the country wanting to know
what variety of black walnut to plant, do you know what I tell them?
MR. CALDWELL: Let them find out for themselves.
DR. CRANE: No, sir, they will never find out, not in their lifetime. I
tell them to plant Thomas. Thomas, Thomas Thomas! Why?
MR. KINTZEL: Because we know more about that than any other.
DR. CRANE: That is right. I expect there are four or five times as many
Thomas walnuts propagated and sold by nurserymen in the United States as
all other varieties.
MR. CORSAN: It always has a bigger crop, too.
DR. CRANE: It bears, that's one thing. It may not always fill, but
Thomas is a good variety. But we in the Nut Growers' Association haven't
the nerve to come out and say the Thomas is a good variety. It has its
faults. I know I am going to be wrong in a lot of cases by planting
Thomas.
MR. CORSAN: But don't plant it outside the peach belt.
DR. CRANE: Well, the peach belt is an awful lot of territory. I know I
am going to be wrong, but I know I am going to be safer with Thomas
variety than I would be with some of the others.
Now, I think that it's time, and I think that the biggest thing that the
Northern Nut Growers' Association can do is to give very serious thought
and take action at this meeting some way looking towards the
Association's giving consideration to methods and means whereby we can
properly evaluate varieties that we have that are growing so that we can
recommend and tell others the varieties that they should grow.
You know, here is the situation exactly. In the territory of the
Northern Nut Growers we don't have a commercial industry at the present
time. I doubt if there is a single family of the Northern Nut Growers
who are here that depend on the sale of nuts for their living. Well,
when your living depends on something, you take an awful lot of interest
in it. And that has been true in the case of apples, for example. I
don't know how many there are, but twenty years ago or more there have
been fifteen or sixteen thousand apple varieties that have been
described and have been planted and propagated, and you can name all of
the commercial apple varieties grown in the United States almost on the
fingers of your hands. That is, the important ones. Oh, the list has
grown, would probably take in 200, but that 190 hardly make a drop in
the bucket as compared to the ten big ones.
Well, the same thing is true with peaches. The Elberta peach just is
completely outstanding. It's a big commercial peach. Now, in all of the
Association here, almost every paper that is presented always has some
commercial aspect mentioned in the paper, but we could never have any
commercial industry as long as we are fooling with a lot of these
varieties with nobody giving them the serious consideration that they
deserve, in an effort to properly evaluate them.
This evaluation of a variety is our problem. I have given an awful lot
of thought to it over the years and how to get around it, how to come up
with the proper answers within the near future so that we can be of help
to others and stop a lot of our amateurs, those who are attracted to the
industry, from making mistakes and getting discouraged. That is the
problem. And that is the thing that I want all of you to be thinking
about tonight and help us with the suggestions.
Now, we could just start almost, I expect, in dogfights, if we were to
conduct this round table to get to discussing the different qualities or
desirability or other aspects among varieties, and each fellow would be
right, because I know there wouldn't be agreement. It would make an
interesting round table, but I don't know how constructive it would be.
So I have tried in these preliminary remarks to get you to thinking
about this problem, of evaluation.
Now, there is one other way that we could go about it. For years we have
had in the Northern Nut Growers Association a group of officers that are
known under the title of State Vice-Presidents, and I think if you judge
by their performance in the past, the main reason that we have had these
State Vice-presidents is that we were attempting to confer some honor on
somebody, the honor being in having them so designated and their names
published as State Vice-presidents in the proceedings. In many cases
their performance hasn't warranted that honor, because, after all, a
vice-president is supposed to be a working vice-president, not an
ornament. The ornament is supposed to be the president, if we have any
such thing. At least, that's what I have heard. I have never been
president. And I have thought that if in the consideration of our State
Vice-presidents we select the ones who are particularly active and very
much interested in this variety problem and in the Northern Nut Growers'
Association, that we might take up this variety problem and get us
information by two ways.
One would be through surveys made in their states by contact with the
growers, either personal contacts or by letters. Then those reports
could be assembled, and we could have our variety committee over all, so
the Association could attempt to evaluate. That would be one start.
Another thing would be that our State Vice-president in collaboration
with the President, would appoint a state committee. Now, we have a lot
of growers in some states that are vitally interested. In Pennsylvania,
for example, and in Ohio and New York we have a lot of growers who are
members of this or state associations that are vitally interested in
this thing. You have a State Vice-president appointing a committee in
collaboration with the president of the National to evaluate the variety
situation as it exists in their state.
Now, we would expect them to do some honest work on this thing and come
up with a report in which the different members could agree. Then we
would be nearer getting unanimity of opinions. We have got to get this
some way so that we can agree upon what we do with the answers to
individuals better than we have been doing in the past.
There may be some error to this. Well, you see, I know that some of you
must be familiar with the New Jersey Peach Testing Association. I am not
sure just what the name of it is, but it's something like that.
A MEMBER: New Jersey Peach Council.
DR. CRANE: It has been a great power and a great help in regard to the
selection and evaluation of peach varieties in the State of New Jersey.
In New Jersey the experiment station has had a peach breeding program
going for a number of years. They have done outstanding work, and they
have brought out some very good varieties. Well, the station has
selected the good ones and discarded the poor ones, or what they thought
were the poor ones. They call in members of this Peach Growers' Council,
and they have the peaches evaluated. They are passing them on to the
fruit growers. "Do you think, in your opinion, that this would be a good
peach for us to grow? Is it better? Does it have better flavor than
other peach varieties?" They will, out of that group, select some of
these new ones, maybe. Then the New Jersey Experiment station will see
to it that the trees of these varieties are propagated, and they are
given to the members of that Association in order that they can plant
them under their conditions and grow them to fruiting and see how they
do.
Well, then, this committee still continues to evaluate them, and if the
members of the Association say, "Well, that's a variety we should grow,"
then they will grow it. If they feel it isn't as good as some they
already have, they throw it away and that's the end of it. But they
don't clutter up the variety situation with a lot of poor stuff. And
they make profits, because always two heads are better than one, even
though one is a sheep's head, as the old saying goes. Well, when you get
four or five or more in a group and they agree, you can be sure that
their opinion is far better than five individual opinions or judgments.
I am very anxious to see that tonight we agree in open discussion of
this whole variety evaluation problem and that we start work some way,
somehow, towards working out some means whereby we can properly and more
effectively and more quickly evaluate our varieties than we have up to
this time. Now, that's the end of my story. The talk and the rest of it
is up to you folks.
Mr. Anthony and Mr. Sherman have been working over here in Pennsylvania.
They have found a lot of new material known only to a few people. They
are just wringing their hands over there to know how in this wide world
this stuff can be evaluated, the good saved, and that which is not
worthy of doing anything with, well, "just pass it up" and let it go.
That's the way we make profits.
Their experience is no different from all the rest. We have nut growers
with whom I have had correspondence in years past who want to propagate
material that this Association should have flatly condemned years ago,
because the majority of the group here knows it is worthless, but they
just haven't done it. Now, it's time that we change this thing, or I
will tell you frankly in a lot of ways the Nut Growers' Association has
become a social institution, rather than one which we learn from and
recommend practices to the new groups that are coming on to keep them
from making mistakes.
Now, I have talked from the bottom of my heart tonight, and I want some
of the rest of you here to express your opinions and give suggestions as
to how we might do that.
MR. WEBER: Dr. Crane, I think I will start the ball rolling, and I think
Ohio has taken the lead in the very thing you have been talking about.
It's the Northern Ohio group. They have been very active in finding out
the better nut varieties that were suitable to Ohio conditions, both the
black walnuts and the hickories. They have conducted contests, both for
black walnut and hickories. They practice what they preach. They have
traded their information. They are up in the northern part, and I am
down in the southern part, too far to be included with them, so I am not
blowing my own horn; I am blowing it for the other fellows. And I think
they are a worthwhile group, and if you look to the membership in this
Association in Ohio, I think it has the largest membership. And you get
that Northern Ohio group, they test out varieties, and a man will fight
for a particular one in his group against the variety from another. And
so they are not afraid to stand up and say what they think.
But having done that, we need the aid of our different state agriculture
groups. You must have a place where they can go and put those trees on a
testing ground so the people can go there and see them. You can go there
to this Ohio experiment station and you will see this variety growing,
or you go over to the other branch and see this variety growing, and
then when they find the state has taken it up, it gives them confidence
more than a fellow blowing his horn for one variety against another
variety.
You have to get the members in their own states to form their own local
organizations and carry out what you have been talking about here and
find out in their particular states which are the best varieties. And
then you get a starting point, and each individual state's agricultural
experiment station should take it up, follow it up, if they have the
funds. Where if one individual gives his mite and then his health fails
or life fails, why, he has contributed his mite, and it will be
perpetuated. But if it's on my place or someone else's place, the next
fellow doesn't appreciate it, and if they need the wood handy, down
comes that tree. It has no memories from then on, and it's not
perpetuated.
So I think some of the Northern Ohio members--I think Mr. Smith is here,
are there any other members? Silvis--deserve a lot of credit.
MR. McDANIEL: I would like particularly to hear if the Northern Ohio
group has got together on a discard list. Have they agreed on any one
variety they don't want to plant?
MR. STERLING SMITH: I am glad you brought out the black walnut. I am
more familiar with it than with other species, and I have been
personally thinking along your line for several years. We have in black
walnuts probably over 200. I started to count them up one time. I got
196, and I know there were more than that, I don't know how many. And
among those nearly 200 varieties of black walnuts I am confident there
must be 150 at least that aren't worth being grown--that is, in Northern
Ohio. They may be good in some other places, or they may be worthwhile
for experimental purposes. But to grow them for commercial means or for
home use, they are not good varieties. And I have suggested to different
ones eliminating them, or trying to work out, say, maybe 25 or 50 and
then from those 50 try to pick out ten. There has not much been done on
it. There is a lot of difficulty in a situation like that.
DR. CRANE: That's right.
MR. STERLING SMITH: Here is one thing: What one person has varieties
which correspond with what his neighbor or somebody ten miles down the
road will have? We will take Grundy, for example, or Rohwer, some of
those. Two or three of them might have that, but the ten or fifteen
other members in the near vicinity won't have that variety. That's one
of the difficulties.
And I have thought personally that there should be some sort of
committee set up along the line you suggested, not necessarily on state
lines, but more on zone or regional lines.
DR. CRANE: Yes, sir, that's what I mean.
MR. STERLING SMITH: Because those suitable in Northern Ohio wouldn't
necessarily be suitable in Southern Ohio, and so with any of the states
along that tier of states. And I think there should be some type of
committee set up to judge these different varieties as far as we can,
and also to enlarge their testing plan.
Mr. Shessler, I believe, has somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 under
test, maybe three or four of the same tree. For myself, I don't know
exactly what I do have, somewhere between 40 and 50 varieties, but there
are only about 10 or 12 of them bearing. And I have of late years
started working on that line, having sort of a test orchard, having one
or two trees of the several varieties so I can find out what to plant.
Not too many years ago I was in the position of the amateur who wanted
to know what to plant. Should I plant Stabler, Ohio, Thomas? It was just
like you spoke about concerning the inquiries that you have. I have
earnestly read all the reports and have earnestly looked where I could
get them in time for the current year. I read so I would know what the
new varieties are and what different people's opinions on them were. And
I think there should be a central committee, probably like you
suggested.
And another suggestion I would like to make would be that before we
permit, as far as possible, any further new varieties of black walnut to
be mentioned or published, that they be passed upon by several of the
members, oh, maybe ten of the members, at least, to learn what their
opinion is before they are mentioned. Lots of times one or two persons
have a good opinion of the nut, and immediately something is published
about it, and as you say, immediately a half dozen fellows write for it,
as in your Persian walnut contest. And it would be better if that nut
weren't allowed to be named until it has been passed upon by a qualified
group of, we will say, experts. And that same condition should be
carried out with the Persian walnut and the hickories and northern
pecans and other groups of nuts we are interested in.
MR. CORSAN: I'd like to suggest that we get started on this matter of
varieties, because we can say an awful lot and then say nothing. I have
tested a great many varieties of black walnuts, and as soon as I hear
people talk about the Stabler walnut, I know they know nothing about
nuts at all, because the Stabler has a crop on it only about once in
twenty years, and then it's a small crop. It's a very good nut to eat
and crack, but it's not for crops. As this gentleman says, the Thomas.
We all know the Thomas. There is one point about the Thomas, you have
got to keep it within just the northern limits of the peach belt where
the peach will grow. There are years that come around when the Thomas
will not mature. The frost will come on. It has a very thick outer
shell, the hull, and the hull comes off the nut itself quite clean. And
then we hear people talking about the Ohio. Now, what about it? Well,
it's a monster nut when you look at it on the tree, but knock the thick
hull off of it, the strong, sturdy hull, and there's only a little nut
in it. Yet you have something that cracks well enough. The nuts I would
condemn right away are the Ohio and Stabler. No doubt about it.
Now the Cresco, very, very rich! That tree will actually kill itself,
just overbearing. You know a tree can kill itself. Some people kill
themselves having 24 or 30 children, but that's about what that tree
will do.
Then we have the nut that years ago I saw, the Snyder, and I said to Mr.
Snyder, "Look, it's a sure nut." He said, "Never saw it." He looked at
it, examined it, and it's a marvelous nut. I think I have the backing of
our friend, Mr. Gilbert Smith. I think he'd back me in saying that that
is one of the best nuts in the world, even with the Thomas.
But we don't quite want to reduce--comb down the list of varieties like
the apple grower has. When you go to Boston and ask a peddler or hawker
about "apples," he won't know what you are talking about. Apples?--they
wonder what the word is. It is "McIntosh." They will go around the
street shouting, "McIntosh, McIntosh." You won't hear the word "apple"
in Boston, it's "McIntosh."
Now, let's get down to nuts, and let us know our nuts.
MR. CALDWELL: (New York State College of Forestry.) I suppose this is my
first time at a meeting of this sort, and probably I should observe with
a critical mind. But when you speak about a committee to pass upon
varieties, immediately I start wondering exactly what you mean by a
variety, and then I start wondering what your approach is in picking
that so-called variety.
First of all, a "variety" that you use is not really a variety. It is
just a vegetation of one particular tree that you happened upon. You
decided by chance it was a tree you wanted to use and then passed it
around to your friends and decided you want it.
DR. CRANE: I want to correct you, for one reason: It is truly a
horticultural variety or clone that has just as much standing or
identity as the botanist's or forester's "variety."
MR. CALDWELL: It is a clone, and I agree with you, but a variety seems--
DR. CRANE: You are speaking from the forester's point of view.
* * * * *
MR. CALDWELL: That's why I make this other statement.
DR. CRANE: When you have got something by controlled breeding, you don't
know when you have got it. That's the whole story in a nutshell.
Now, I am going to tell you about using controlled breeding. We started
almond breeding in California, where we have one of the biggest
commercial nut industries in the country. We started almond breeding in
1920 with the best known almonds. In the 30 years of almond breeding we
have introduced two varieties. We had a panel of 125 commercial almond
growers who decided on those two varieties out of more than 20,000 known
controlled crosses that were made of trees that were grown to fruiting.
But it took a panel of 125 commercial growers to determine whether or
not these two varieties, the Jordanolo and the Harpareil, were
commercial varieties.
Those two varieties were planted. The nurserymen planted them, the
grower took them over, and they couldn't grow enough trees to supply the
demand. These two varieties have been introduced for commercial planting
now for 14 years. Of the two, one has stood the test of time, and it
stands now as probably the second most important almond variety in all
the United States, has been taken to foreign countries and is being
extensively propagated. One of them made the grade, the Jordanolo. The
Harpareil is still in the running, but it is down with the 30 or 40
varieties that are of lesser importance.
MR. CALDWELL: Can you reproduce that result?
DR. CRANE: No.
MR. CALDWELL: Then you don't know what that is or the happenstance that
got it.
DR. CRANE: Certainly, because you don't know about breeding nut trees.
MR. CALDWELL: That's what I say should be learned.
DR. CRANE: In the first place, the chromosomes are so small and there
are so many, that you can't identify them, and you can't tell which
genes, and they have got a heterozygous population, and the variety is
self-sterile and has to be cross-pollinated, so there is only one way
from a horticultural standpoint by which we can do anything, and that is
through clones.
DR. MacDANIELS: I think we are getting a little bit off.
DR. CRANE: We are off, way off.
DR. MacDANIELS: How to get a new variety I don't think is what we are
trying to decide this evening. As I have looked at this whole field of
what we are trying to do, I think we have analogies that we can point
to. I think any project of this kind in nut varieties goes through
various stages. The first is finding what material there is that is
available that you can use. The next is the evaluation of that material
to see what's worth keeping, and setting up your standards of what you
are trying to get, and then from then on out perhaps breeding that sort
of thing.
Now, as far as we are concerned, it seems to me the Northern Nut
Growers' Association made a pretty good stab at surveying the materials
available. In other words, I think an additional nut contest is not
going to turn up the perfect nut. That is, we have one contest after
another, and the ones that win the first prizes as the best nuts we can
find are not markedly better. There is no great difference away from the
average that we have had in the others.
I think that's a valuable thing to keep going along so we don't miss a
trick and let anything be lost. But the next thing is to take these
things that we have selected and evaluate them, and it seems tome that's
exactly where we stand at the present time.
I also think that we should not in this situation get ideas that are too
big. That is, if you get something that's impossible, you are licked
before you start. If you have got to wait before you do anything and
make a complete study of chromosomes of any one of these nut trees,
99.44 percent of the Northern Nut Growers Association might as well quit
doing it. I am not capable of doing it, and Dr. McKay is probably the
only one that is capable of looking at these things from that
standpoint. But we have, it seems to me, to use the machinery we have
and take some definite action which will be of some value within a year
or perhaps two.
I agree that this idea of putting the State Vice-presidents to work is a
very good thing. I think each one could if we could find the right
man--take his state and divide it into two parts, and also take in
groups of growers of nut trees that are members, and all the others that
we can find, and get their pooled opinions on what varieties are
available, together with the record of these varieties in that
particular locality.
Then I think on the basis of one of the committees we have, that is, our
standards and judging subcommittee, we could set that up in such a way
that they could evaluate things about which there is some doubt.
But before we do that, we have got to clear the decks and adopt judging
standards, standards by which we wish to work or to evaluate different
varieties. I don't know whether anyone else has done more judging than I
have or not, but I know I have given this a lot of attention through the
years.
We had one system of judging which was worked out some years ago and was
based on previous judging systems, and they went to a point where it
seemed to me and to the others who were working along with me that they
just didn't have any real basis in the factual situation that warranted
its continuance; that is, a system which was based on percentages of
kernel and penalties for empty nuts or flavor, and other things which
could not be effectively measured. And they quit with that system and
started out on a new tack. And to do that we got Dr. Atwood, who is
head of the Department of Plant Breeding Genetics at Cornell, to go
through some extensive tests which he applied as a biometrical
statistical method, to find out what is the sample which will give you
specific results and then to measure the qualities that give you what
you want. And I think we are nearer that than before. But I think the
schedules are relatively simple and haven't been used to any great
extent. They need further testing.
But it seems to me that the Association as such must decide whether we
want that schedule, making it an official schedule and going ahead on
that basis.
Now, a judging schedule for nuts will not tell you anything about the
tree; it will just tell you the characteristics of the sample. That's
the first thing you want to find out: Is the nut itself intrinsically
the type of thing you want to deal with? Then whether the tree bears
annually or whether it alternates, or what diseases it is subject to.
Those are other matters.
So I think this is a way out, or at least I suggested the plan we could
go along with of putting the vice-presidents to work and setting up a
committee under the title of judging and standards and try to bring out
a report at the next session. It seems to me that would be right
practical.
Where we go from there in production of new varieties I think should be
a subject for a round table discussion sometime. I think the gentleman
in forestry has a good idea. I think we will get a long way if you have
proper control of the first elements of the first varieties, and from
them we can build up. But it seems to me we have to be practical about
things that we can do, then go ahead and do them.
DR. CRANE: Thank you, thank you.
DR. COLBY: I would like to add one point, that we must "zone" all these
varieties. In a state as long as Illinois, over 400 miles long, growing
conditions are different in the south than in the north. In the north we
don't find that Thomas fills out very well and that's true also at
Urbana in the central section of the state. Beck and Booth and some of
the smaller nuts do fill out. The zones I mentioned may well run across
several states where environmental conditions are similar.
I recall a little survey I made when I was honored by being president of
your association several years ago, in which I tried to list all of the
work that was in progress at the different national and state experiment
stations, and most of those stations were carrying on some work in nut
growing. I am sure that if you check that matter now, several years
later, you would find that many more are carrying on investigations of
that nature. They have expanded as much as their facilities will permit.
For example, just the other day I visited the station at the University
of New Hampshire, and there they were growing chestnut trees from seed
that had been brought in from Korea. Little trees just two years from
the seed were full of burs this year. Whether they are going to fill a
place in New Hampshire remains to be seen. They were not as yet attacked
by blight, but, of course, the trees were small, and there were no
cracks in the bark as yet.
I am sure that most of the station workers know that you at Beltsville
are extremely interested in testing new nuts as they become available.
In cooperation with other workers it may be found that this variety is
good in ~this~ zone and that variety is good in ~that~ zone. Nurserymen
might well include maps of such zones in their catalogs.
DR. ANTHONY: Now that the experiences of the Northern Ohio growers has
been brought up and you have mentioned many times your own experience as
the Northern Nut Growers, I think the Northern Ohio group, a closely
knit group, rather closely geographically related, has worked for almost
twenty years, and hasn't gotten too far, and this organization has
worked for 41 years and hasn't gotten too far. So that if we want to get
anywhere, we must have a more closely knit organization with a better
financial backing back of it and a better sense of responsibility back
of it.
DR. CRANE: That's right.
DR. ANTHONY: You have mentioned the New Jersey Peach Council. We have
been talking to our own Pennsylvania nut growers just as we have been
talking to you today, telling them that they had a marvelous opportunity
in all of these seedlings that we have been finding around the state. I
think we have got them quite stirred up. But now they are considering
the possibilities of organizing along the line of New Jersey Peach
Council, a nut tester's council, which will be an off-shoot and part of
the Pennsylvania Nut Growers Association.
Now, why have such a thing? Why have it in Pennsylvania? Why not have it
as an organization of the Northern Nut Growers. The problem of varieties
actually in its final analysis is a local problem. We have one area in
Pennsylvania where on one side of the river it's McIntosh and the other
side of the river it's Stayman. There are meteorological differences on
each side of the Susquehanna River at Scranton-Wilkes Barre where the
varieties shift. In the northern area we go from the northern hardwood
with the beech-birch-sugar maple, into the oaks right in the state, with
a third of the state in the northern hardwoods and the rest of the state
in the oaks. We have no idea that any one variety of black walnuts or
English walnuts or chestnuts will fill our needs any more than we know
that any one apple will fill our needs, that one grape or one cherry
will fill our needs, even one peach, not even the Elberta.
So it comes down to a regional problem, and for that reason I think that
the state should be the logical center for your close knit organization
to test your varieties.
There is another reason. I don't believe that any group of growers
facing a problem of this magnitude can get very far unless you secure
continuity by tying your organizations in some way to your state
experiment station. I think you have got to have your continuity by
making your tie-up there.
DR. CRANE: That's right.
DR. ANTHONY: I have said a number of times in our own group that one of
the great disadvantages of our amateur nut growers in Pennsylvania is
that most of them are 70 years old or older. That's fine for them, but
it's hard on the industry, because just the time that they should be
giving us the most valuable returns, they aren't there. So to secure the
continuity you want, you are going to have to tie in your experiments
with the experiment station. You are going to have to make a group, you
are going to have to incorporate, because you are going to face the
problem of propagation. You might have one good tree, and it's of no
value for you, and you have got to plant it in more than one spot to
know how good it is.
If the Delicious apple or Grimes Golden had appeared in our seedling
blocks, we'd have thrown them away. I know we have thrown many things
out at Geneva which in other places might have survived. We took a
number of those and planted them in Pennsylvania and found them worthy
of naming. That means you have got to propagate in more than one place
and you have got to propagate in conditions where you know you have got
the demand.
And all of that means that you have got to have a tight legal
organization. Valuable as the Northern Nut Growers Association is, I
don't think you are going to get it out of your present organization. I
think you have got to find some way to condense your stuff into some
tighter organization. In Pennsylvania I think it's going to be a nut
tester's council, legally organized, financially responsible, tied up to
the experiment station, if we can make it just as the New Jersey council
is.
The New Jersey council was a success because they had the best possible
tie-up between Morris Plains, 15 or 20 miles on the other side, and a
good nursery in between. That's why they made a success.
The New York State Fruit Testing Association is a success because they
have had continuity. Mr. King has been manager of that association for
25 years, I think, and you have a legal organization doing its own
propagation where they know the material is true to name.
Use your vice-presidents all you can, use every committee that you have
but you have to have something that's tighter.
DR. CRANE: Thank you. Just one comment that I want to make. You have
suggested an awful big camel to get over. Now, we are trying to start.
If we could just get a little start towards the end we could grow into
it.
DR. ANTHONY: We have got to start.
MR. O'ROURKE: I am one of those unfortunate ones who is supposed to know
everything when an inquiry comes in to the college. I happen to have the
privilege of answering the nut inquiries at Michigan State College. The
first thing people want to know is, "what varieties do I plant?" The
second is, "Where do I buy them?" I am very sorry to say I can answer
neither one of those questions at the present time satisfactorily to
myself, nor to the people of the State of Michigan, and I feel that we
do need action, and we need it quick in order that we can select a
certain number of varieties that we can conscientiously recommend to the
grower, and also a very few varieties to recommend to the nurserymen of
the state so that they will propagate them and make them available to
prospective customers.
MR. SLATE: I want to support Mr. Anthony's remarks that there are too
many old men testing nut tree varieties.
DR. ANTHONY: Not too many, no.
MR. SLATE: And there are too many squirrels involved. If a man gets the
idea that he is going to take up the nuts, by the time he accumulates a
collection of nuts, when these come into bearing the squirrels get most
of the nuts, and they don't seem to be very much concerned about
evaluation. Then the man dies and the collection goes to pot. There must
be some continuity, and as far as I can see, that will have to come
through state experiment stations.
Now, just how you are going to get the experiment stations started in
testing nut tree varieties, I don't really know. Many of the projects at
the experiment stations are there because they are catering to the
larger industries in the state, and sometimes the projects are there
because somebody in an administrative position has an idea which he
wishes to see developed.
Now, I would like to comment on the remark of our forester friend here,
and I think he won't take offense at what I am going to say. It seems to
me that the foresters are not in a good position to criticize the
horticulturists. The forester's knowledge of variety improvement for a
long, long time has been based upon the problem of lots of seed from
certain geographical areas, and I feel sure that foresters as a class
have only very, very recently become aware of the importance of the
clone as we use it in horticulture.
Now, horticulturists, that is, pomologists, nut culturists, people who
deal with ornamentals, have been keenly aware of the horticultural clone
for a long, long time. There have been brought improvements into our
cultivated plants through the hybridization of clones that all of the
horticulturists are familiar with. The blueberry work done by the
Department of Agriculture is probably the most striking example of this
work, because it was all carried out during the lifetime of one man.
I feel that we will not get much further in searching for wild nuts. We
have had contests for hickories and black walnuts, and I doubt whether
we have made any very substantial increases. I feel certain, and I know
there are a number here who will back me up, that future improvements,
if they are to be really substantial--that is, if they are to be
substantial advances over what we already have--such improvements will
have to come through breeding work.
DR. McKAY: Mr. Chairman, I have been listening to these remarks, and I
have been trying to think of some comment that could be made in
connection with some practical suggestions that we could arrive at
tonight, a starting point, perhaps, in connection with the chairman's
remarks about doing something tonight at this meeting. I'd like to say
that it seems to me that the thing we could probably do right now to
start things off would be to have this regional committee or this group
that represents a wide area, decide on, say, five varieties based on all
the evidence that can be obtained as to which five would be most likely
to succeed over a wide area.
Now, the chairman has commented at length on our lack of unanimity when
it comes to varieties. I think most of that problem has come out of the
fact that our information is all based on little, piecemeal bits of work
done here and there, and it does not refer to variety testing over a
wide area. Now with all due respect to Dr. Anthony's remarks about
varieties being a local situation, we still have, as mentioned by the
chairman, the apple situation. The varieties in the final analysis are
going to be adopted over a wide area, and if our nurserymen and all our
growers could know or understand that these five varieties have been
selected by opinion of people that ought to know that those five
varieties stand the best chance to succeed over a wide area, then we
would have something definite to tie to.
The way it is now, we in our office feel that Thomas is probably the
most widely adapted variety of black walnut we have, and probably the
best performing variety. We are not sure, but that's our opinion. I
might mention another variety, the Stabler. I think most people would
agree that that is a variety that used to be thought well of, yet is no
more, and so it is out of the picture. Those two varieties we have
information about, based on a wide area of territory.
Now, it seems to me, coming down to something specific, what we could do
here, or as soon as we can get to it, would be to have a large
committee, a committee representing opinion over a wide area, come to
some conclusion about the five varieties that will be the ones to test
and to grow over a wide area and give our nurserymen or our growers
something to tie to in the matter of selecting varieties to grow.
DR. CRANE: Thank you, Dr. McKay. There is one other comment that I want
to make. I think that if we were to take a vote tonight in here, get an
expression on the variety Stabler, we'd say, "Yes, it's a curious nut,
it's a curiosity. Some trees sometimes bear single-lobe nuts in varying
proportions. It is a fine nut when you get it, but they don't bear
enough and they don't bear regularly enough. That is the criticism of
the Stabler."
Yet we have nurserymen, lots of them, that are propagating Stabler and
still selling them to people.
MR. McDANIEL: I know one nursery which has recently discontinued it.
That's Armstrong, way out in California.
MR. CALDWELL: Why doesn't it produce a good nut? Can you answer that
question?
DR. CRANE: It does produce a good nut ~when~ it produces.
MR. CALDWELL: If it doesn't produce all the while, why doesn't it? If
you can solve that--
DR. CRANE: Why didn't you grow up to a six-foot-six guy weighing 250
pounds?
MR. CALDWELL: It would be physically impossible for me to do so with my
constitution, which is what I am trying to apply to the nut trees.
MR. WILKINSON: Don't condemn it over all territories[6]. At my place,
the Stabler produces nuts as regular as the Thomas, and in the nursery
it outsells the Thomas two to one, if not more. I have handled nut sales
for Mr. Weber's orchard, one of the largest black walnut orchards in the
United States. When the people come there we will crack a Stabler
walnut to make a customer out of them, and we have to get on to
something else to keep them from buying all the Stablers first. And if I
were planting a hundred walnut trees today, the majority of them would
be Stabler. They have been bearing since 1918 when I started producing
Stabler walnuts.
[6] The territory giving best reports on Stabler lies along the
Mississippi and Ohio rivers from about Cincinnati to no farther south
than Memphis.--J.C.McD.
DR. CRANE: That's what we are talking about tonight.
MR. CALDWELL: Yet your committee throws the thing out.
MR. CHASE: I'd like to say a few words. First off, I am in agreement
with the idea of some sort of a regional testing set-up.
Now here we are getting into discussion about individual varieties, and
that is not the purpose of this, as I understand, but all of you
gentlemen have been propagating the various varieties simply because one
has become available to you at a certain time, and you have grafted it.
Our committee on varieties, of which I am a member, probably should be
criticized, because we have not gathered that information from the folks
who have grafted trees, and they are scattered over the region. We don't
need the regional set-up, it's already set up. In other words, if we
have varieties to be tested, we could have selected members in our group
to graft it, if they do not already have it grafted. In a few years we
can get some pretty definite information on a few varieties.
Now, in 1938, in our work we recognized the advisability of quickly
doing something about the 100-and-some varieties existing in the
proceedings, and finally we have culled that down to, I think, 43,
which, on the basis of nut characteristics only, are very close
together. Now, we started out in 1938 and established four or five test
plantings containing the first ten varieties. Ten trees of ten
varieties, a hundred trees in the planting. It took quite an area.
Since that time we have set out variety test plantings of 43 varieties
scattered over seven states at various geographical locations within the
seven states.
MR. KINTZEL: How many trees do you have in a planting now?
MR. CHASE: Twenty-five now. Twenty-five of five varieties. This work is
being carried on at the state experiment stations in the Tennessee
Valley. In fact, they have become more and more interested in the
testing program which we have been trying to get them interested in, and
we hope to have some information for our region on some of these
varieties, the better varieties as we consider them.
But back to this problem. I think it is very simple to set out. I think
the Varieties Committee--I believe Dr. Crane is chairman--
DR. MacDANIELS: You are chairman.
MR. CHASE: No. It has a job on its hands: first to find out what our
members have. Certainly they are spread over the region we are
interested in, aren't they? Well, it simply becomes a secretary's job to
canvass our membership to find out which varieties we have, so that the
Varieties Committee can go to work.
Let's be realistic. We are not going to influence all the experiment
stations to do this work. It is not going to be practicable for them.
They probably would very much like to do it, but it's not in the
picture, as I see it now. Therefore, we are not going to wait, as our
forester would have us wait, until we breed one. Let's get these good
ones that we have got and cull them out so Dr. Crane can answer a letter
without having a guilty conscience.
DR. CRANE: That's right. Folks, I want to make one comment on Mr.
Chase's remarks--also Mr. Slate's remarks, about tying this work up to
the experiment stations. There is one thing that, in my experience, we
can't place too much dependence on. Of course, in the Department of
Agriculture our main interests that we are likely to contend with are
our four major nut industries in the country. That is pecans, Persian
walnuts, filberts and almonds. In the case of those, we can get very
little help from the experiment stations, with the possible exception of
California.
MR. CORSAN: There is lots of truth in that.
DR. CRANE: They haven't got the interest in it. They haven't got the
money, they haven't got the support. They depend more on the U. S.
Department of Agriculture. Well, the Department of Agriculture can't
carry it. Hence, it comes back to growers. The grower organizations,
even in the great state of California, with all their great wealth and
abundance, go to the California experiment stations more than to any
other experiment stations in the United States. But the commercial
growers out there have already set up organizations for the testing of
these varieties and for trial plantings. You can't come back to the
experiment stations and just as has been pointed out, many of the
experiment stations have only one or two or, at most, three different
kinds of nuts of their own. They have got to go out just the same as we
do ~with the growers~; we co-operate with them. And we have already got a
lot of these experimental plantings. There is Sterling Smith with--I
have forgotten how many he said--60 walnut varieties, and Mr. Shessler
with a hundred, there in Ohio.
I'd like to know from Sterling Smith and Mr. Shessler which are the best
five walnut varieties.
MR. KINTZEL: In that section?
DR. CRANE: In that section, that's what I want to know.
MR. CORSAN: That's what we are here for tonight. Let us talk it over.
MR. WEBER: Put the question to him, Dr. Crane, and let him tell you what
he thinks to be his best five. Put him on the spot right now.
DR. CRANE: That would be just a waste of time, because that would be his
opinion. It's just like what Mr. Wilkinson says, that if he were
planting a hundred walnut trees they would be Stablers.
MR. WEBER: In his particular locality.
MR. CORSAN: And he may be quite right in that locality. I am not going
to dispute it.
DR. CRANE: But we want to know how some other folks agree with him and
study this situation over and find out why Stabler was doing its stuff
right there.
MR. CALDWELL: That's what I asked you.
DR. CRANE: And how much evidence did he base his conclusion on? That's
what we have got to discover.
MR. CORSAN: I base my conclusion on the experiment station that put out
the Redhaven peaches. Dr. George Slate here has made a very big point,
and it went to pot. Those words there are what we have got to be careful
about, that our institution doesn't go to pot. I have started affairs
that went with a fury, and when I let go of them, they just went to pot.
Take Michigan State College's Bird Sanctuary, the W. K. Kellogg Bird
Sanctuary. What is it now? A colorless affair. It's gone to pot, and we
want to see that the nut growers don't allow ~their~ institutions to go to
pot.
DR. CRANE: That's right: You hit the nail on the head, there, but it's
up to the nut growers to see that they don't. And how many experiment
stations or their actions have been influenced by the Northern Nut
Growers Association?
MR. CORSAN: I have built upon the experience of J. F. Jones and Neilson
and Professor Slate and all of them. Now, here is what I did. I picked
out a section of land that floods every spring, about four times the
width of this room and has sometimes eight feet of water. Now, nobody is
going to build houses on that and tear my nut trees down. They are there
forever, and it will always be a nut haven, and nobody will be able to
destroy it. Now I have got to be careful to see that it doesn't go to
pot, as Professor Slate said, by selecting some brains to succeed me, to
carry on. Is that right, Professor Slate?
PROFESSOR SLATE: (Nods.)
MR. SILVIS: We can't spend too much time thinking about the atomic bomb.
We can't think too much about getting an organization to start this, it
just takes somebody to go ahead and do it. We don't need experiment
stations to develop the nut, either. The nut was here a long time before
the experiment station was ever developed.
I wrote in a letter here two or three or maybe four years ago--I think
it was after the Norris meeting, to every vice-president in NNGA that
commercial possibilities of a nut must first be apparent before any
experiment station is interested, because then money is involved,
capital has been invested. Before capital can be invested must come
coordination. Coordination is labor. That's grafting or flowering, or
whatever you want to call it--back-breaking exercise.
I still think we have the organization here. We don't need to argue
about any more organization. We have organization right here in our own
State Vice-presidents. I tried to bring that out, the suggestion as to
the fact that I thought maybe the State Vice-president would serve on a
perpetual committee, if he lived into perpetuity, to get these zones
within his state. If Illinois is 400 miles long and he has 16 zones of
climate, let him get 16 plantings of the same kind of a nut in those 16
zones. The same way with Texas, the same way with Montana or Ohio.
MR. SHERMAN: I think both Mr. Stoke and Mr. Davidson thought that it
might be a good idea to give somebody a job instead of an honorary
position by naming a State vice-president for that sort of a job. Now,
we have got to start somewhere, and that would be a good place to start:
give somebody something to do, like some of these other dead people that
will feed these nuts that Corsan was telling us about this afternoon.
But the commercial possibilities are always apparent. You can subsidize
them, you know. If you can get enough money behind it, you can subsidize
it. I think our problem still is the same as it was before: We are still
trying to find out what the other guy has that's better than our own.
And if we have got five nuts that are any good, I'd like to know about
them myself.
DR. CRANK: That's right.
MR. SILVIS: I will make this statement in favor of the Homeland black
walnut--if we are on black walnuts. I came in a little late on account
of the mud here. The Homeland is growing in Massillon, and Mr. Stoke
sent me the scions. All it did was produce staminate bloom. I gave some
of the wood to John Gerstenmaier in Massillon. It is doing very well.
I also favor the Thomas black walnut, and I think the hickories and
everything else have commercial possibilities. Just let somebody go
ahead and correlate these factors. Life is very short. I have copies of
these letters, four letters out of 50 or 60 that I prepared.
DR. CRANE: Mr. Jay Smith. We are going to have to limit this to not over
three minutes' time.
MR. JAY SMITH: My experience is somewhat limited. I have a few seedling
trees that are good, and I have a few named varieties that seem to be
good. I just want to point out one reason why we should have a number of
varieties. One of my choice varieties in my back yard has five nuts on
it this year, and it has produced a good crop other years. And the
answer seems to be that the pollen came out during a period of very
rainy weather and the tree did not fertilize. Now, other trees
apparently blossomed before or after, mostly after, but this one was a
rather early blooming tree, and I have more nuts on other types of
trees.
One of my good seedling trees has very few nuts on this year. Possibly
that might be for a similar reason. So regardless of how good these
varieties may be, we must have several varieties. Don't put all your
eggs in one basket.
I have some good filberts that came from Geneva, and they have had
trouble with wood damage due to the beetles laying eggs in the wood, and
the beetles may possibly have come from nearby willows. And I have had
some of the willow growing, too, because I thought it looked nice. Now I
have cut down all of the willow, and there is some birch in the
neighborhood, and I understand the birch harbors this same thing, some
variety of Agrilus beetle,[7] and we have a lot of angles to work on in
order to get rid of our drawbacks. And we have the matters of season
and soil and elevation. It's quite a big problem.
[7] Agrilus anxius Gory, the bronze birch borer.
DR. CRANE: It ~is~ a big problem, but we will never settle it the way we
are going. We have got to do better.
MR. STOKE: I don't know whether I have anything that is really pertinent
to say. The thought I had in mind should have come sooner. That is: Why
are we growing nuts? There are two angles from which we can approach
that, two natural angles. Here is the angle of the amateur that wants to
grow nuts to eat. After all, that's what I suppose they are for. There
is the commercial grower who wants to grow them to make a profit, and I
think we should approach our subject, evaluation of nuts, from either
one of those two angles, or work along two different channels. I think
that's very necessary.
You take the Elberta peach. If you want a peach in your back yard, you
are not going to plant Elberta peaches to eat. If you want to make a
commercial success, you are going to plant the Elberta, if you know
anything about it. Are we commercial nut growers, or do we grow them for
home consumption? Go downstairs and look at the nuts we judged last year
and the eye appeal of some that didn't rate at all would sell those nuts
ahead of the prize winner. But if you want to grow them to eat, those
three prize winners are the best nuts down there.
And if we thrash over this field, I think we have got a definite idea of
what we are after, and I think we should have had that to start with.
DR. CRANE: That's right, and there is one other point of view, too.
There is a third reason for growing nut trees. That is simply for the
ornamental value. That hasn't been dealt with.
MR. WELLMAN: I'd just like to ask a question. There has been some
reference to apples here. I don't know very much about it, but I
understand that the American Pomological Society got out a list of
apples nearly a century ago, which they have kept changing and adding to
and subtracting from over all of that time. Is there any analogy there
that would help us in anything we can do? They made mistakes and put
apples on there that they are sorry they put on and they have had to
take off. People don't use those varieties in one part or another part
of the country for some reason. Is there any reason why we shouldn't
follow some suggestion such as that, stick our necks out and go ahead?
DR. CRANE: That is right, no reason in the world why you can't.
MR. SHERMAN: I'd like to do some commenting. You are doing here tonight
what you have done at the last meeting. You have talked varieties. I
thought the purpose of that was to get a committee appointed some way,
some organization that will say, "Here are certain varieties that should
be tested. Make arrangements to propagate those varieties and have them
tested."
I made a demonstration right downstairs here; some of you witnessed it.
You have got some black walnuts that you are cracking. I went out to
the car and got some that would crack in four nice quarters that laid
out. I tried it again. Sure, they cracked and cracked good. Where can I
get some trees? There are a lot of you right here who would take them
just that quick (snapping fingers), take them home and test them.
This meeting was to get an organization or discuss a means of getting an
organization that will get those trees propagated and spread out for
testing. Now, I think it's just as simple as A, B, C. It's a prolonged
job. You have got to have an organization that's going to perpetuate
itself for the next century, because if you start that organization
right it will be here a hundred years from now, and you will be just as
busy a hundred years from now as you are right now.
What that committee has got to be, whether it is a statewide or a
nationwide, Northern Nut Growers or Pennsylvania Nut Growers or Ohio Nut
Growers, is a committee of five--I will say five, you can make it 10 or
15--that will say, "Now, for Ohio here are ten varieties that we think
should be tested. Get 50 trees of each of those ten propagated and
spread out over Ohio and find out where they will grow." That will apply
for some of Western Pennsylvania, too. It isn't just state lines,
understand, but the main thing is to get that variety tested before your
nurseryman is spreading it all over everywhere.
And how can you get it tested? You have got to have some trees
propagated, and you have got to have some nurseryman who knows about the
propagation. And I will say a lot of you nurserymen, and there are a lot
of you here, take it or leave it, don't know how to propagate a decent
black walnut tree. I have had them sent to me with a 6-inch sprout
growing in the top of a club. I have had others two years old with a
nice whip five feet high, one-year-old growth. You have got to have good
trees. You have got to have a nurseryman who knows how to propagate
those ten and send them out.
Now, the next meeting was to find out what sort of an organization you
have got to have to get that done, not talk about a Stabler, whether
this is good or that is good. That's what you have been doing for 40
years.
MR. SLATE: It takes more than a committee, it takes land, labor, tools,
supervisory people.
MR. SHERMAN: I can point to 25 members that will take ten varieties that
they will test--and pay for them.
MR. O'ROURKE: I would like to say, are we going to wait until we test
all of those varieties? We have no information to answer all those
letters that are coming in. We want something, not tomorrow, we want
something today, that we can give them, information which, at least to
the best of our knowledge of today is accurate. And the only way we can
get that accurate information is to get a committee together in each
region.
MR. SHERMAN: That won't take care of the future. That will answer our
present questions to the best of our knowledge, but we want an
organization that will take care of the future.
DR. CRANE: There is one other thing that I should mention. We in the
Department of Agriculture have released a number of new varieties. We
have got others coming on, not only your chestnuts, but filberts and
others, pecans, and so on. But we haven't got any organization in any
way, shape or form. We can put these out with the growers who test them,
but gee whiz, we have put them out and put them out; and look what kind
of information we get. We haven't got facilities or the money or
anything else to follow up. We have got to have some organization some
way, somehow, that could take this material and test it, at least give
some idea as to how it performed.
Now, then, the question is what kind of an organization? If the Northern
Nut Growers is not the one that should do it, what kind of an
organization can be effective to do it?
MR. CORSAN: Now I'd just like to say one more thing tonight. That
chestnut blight, I honestly believe, was a godsend to this country. I
can remember way back when I'd go into a store and buy a lot of these
Paragon chestnuts in New York City in the finest grocery store, and they
were crammed full of weevils. Now, the chestnut blight came, and it has
about annihilated the weevil, because there was no chestnut to weevil
in. And I would like to have some report about the weevil.
MR. WILSON: They are in Georgia.
MR. McDANIEL: They are in Virginia and Indiana.
DR. MacDANIELS: Mr. Chairman, I suppose I should have the chair. This is
a committee of the whole.
DR. CRANE: That's right.
DR. MacDANIELS: I have a right to speak,