Let us take the whole Polish question at once, for that is really what

the hon. member means by this part of the motion. I am not aware of

any commercial rights enjoyed by Great Britain which have been much

affected in Poland by any changes that have taken place. Nor do I

recollect any commercial rights which have been affected, except those

of individuals, which might in some degree have been so by changes in

the tariff. The charge made by the hon. member is in effect this--that

when the Polish revolution broke out in 1835, England, in conjunction

with France, should have taken up arms in favour of the Poles, but

she did not do so; that she abandoned France in her attempt, and thus

deprived the Poles of their independence; and finally--and here the

hon. member made an assertion I was astonished to hear--that we

prevented Austria uniting with France and England for the same object.

[Mr. Anstey: I said, Austria was ready to have joined with us if we

had acted differently.] Well, then, the hon. member says we balked the

readiness of Austria to interpose in favour of the Poles, when we had

many reasons to adopt a different course. This question has been so

often discussed that I can only repeat what I have said in former

Parliaments. It is well known that when we came into office in 1830,

Europe was in a state which, in the opinion of any impartial man, and

of the best political judges, threatened to break out into a general

war. I remember being told by a right hon. gentleman, in the course of

a private conversation in the House, that 'if an angel came down from

heaven to write my dispatches, I could not prevent Europe from a war

in six months'. Well, Sir, not months, but years, rolled by, and no

war took place. It was the anxious desire of the Government of Earl

Grey to prevent war; and the maintenance of peace was one of the

objects at which they expressly aimed, and succeeded. What were the

dangers which threatened the peace of Europe? There had just been a

great revolution in France, there had been another in Belgium, and

these had been followed by a great rising of the Poles against the

sway of Russia. In these struggles there was a conflict of principle

as well as one of political relations. There was the popular

principle in France, in Belgium, and in Poland, to be resisted by

the monarchical principle of Austria, of Russia, and of Prussia. The

danger apprehended in 1831 was, that these three Powers should attempt

by a hostile attack to control France in the exercise of her judgement

with respect to who should be her sovereign, or what should be her

constitution. The British Government, under the Duke of Wellington,

with the most laudable regard for the public interests, not only of

England but of Europe, hastened to acknowledge the new Sovereign

of France, and to withdraw their country from the ranks of any

confederacy against her; and this conduct laid the foundation of that

peace which it was our duty to maintain and cultivate. The great

anxiety of England was that peace should be maintained. There was no

doubt great sympathy with the Poles in their contest against Russia;

and it was thought there was a chance of their succeeding in their

attempt. The result, however, was different; but then it was said by

the hon. member, 'Oh, it is the fault of England that she did not

establish the independence of Poland. If she had joined with France

and Austria (which now for the first time I am told was anxious

to favour the cause of Poland), the Poles would have been in full

enjoyment of their constitutional freedom.' The hon. gentleman

actually said that Austria, in 1831, was in favour of the Poles, who

were closely pressed by the Russians and Prussians, who had already

got possession of Militsch, and felt, if the kingdom of Poland were

independent, the chances were that she (Militsch) would rise also to

assert her liberties. This statement is excessively extraordinary. I

am quite surprised even that the hon. member for Youghal should have

made it. I will tell him what was passing in his mind when, he said

so, and what led him to make this statement; for I am at least

desirous of giving a rational solution to it as far as I can, under

his correction. The fact of which he was probably thinking was this:

In 1814, when the issue of the war between Napoleon and the other

Powers of Europe was doubtful, a treaty, of which part has been

made public, was signed at Reichenbach between Austria, Russia, and

Prussia, for the entire partition of Poland between them, in the event

of their success against France. The effect of this treaty would have

been to extinguish the name of Poland as a separate and independent

element of European geography. In 1813, after Napoleon had been

repulsed from Russia, and the war had retired to the westward of

Germany and of Europe, where shortly after it was brought to a close,

discussions took place at Vienna as to what should be done with

Poland. Austria called for the execution of the compact, and, with

England, demanded that either the Treaty of Reichenbach should be

completely carried out, and Poland divided equally into three

parts for each of the contracting parties, or that she should be

reconstructed and made anew into a substantive state between the three

Powers. Russia was of a different opinion, and contended not for the

execution of the Treaty of Reichenbach, but for the arrangement which

was subsequently carried into effect, namely, that the greater part

of Poland was to be made into a kingdom and annexed to her Crown,

and that the remaining parts should be divided between the two other

states. After a great deal of discussion the Treaty of Reichenbach was

set aside, and the arrangements of the Treaty of Vienna were made. I

suppose this is what led the hon. member to his statement that

Austria would join with us, because in 1814 she was favourable to the

re-establishment of Poland as a separate kingdom, as one alternative

in contradiction to her partition; for any other ground than this I

cannot conceive for his assertion. If Austria were favourable to the

Polish insurrection subsequently, I can only say that it is a fact as

unknown to me as was the existence of the four days of danger, and

I am inclined to place both assertions on the same foundation. The

interest of Austria was in fact quite different; and it was owing to

her feeling respecting Poland, that the Russians ultimately succeeded

in crushing the insurrection. But then, says the hon. and learned

member, you should have accepted the offers of France. I have often

argued the question before, and what, I said before I say again. If

France had gone to the extent, of proposing to England to join, with

her against Russia, this would have been nothing more nor less than

the offer of a war in Europe, which, as our great object was to keep

down such a war, we should never have thought of accepting. It would

have been a war without the chance of anything but a war, for let us

look to the position of the kingdom of Poland--let us consider that it

was surrounded by Austria, by Russia, and by Prussia, that there was a

large Russian army actually in Poland, and that there was a Prussian

army on her frontiers--and we shall at once see that at the very first

intimation that England was about to take up arms with France for the

independence of Poland, the three armies would have fallen on the

Poles, the insurrection would have been crushed, the spark of Polish

independence extinguished; and all this having been done, the three

Powers would have marched their armies to the Rhine, and said: 'We

shall now make France and England answer for their conduct.' This

course would have been sure to involve the country in a Continental

war, for a purpose which would be defeated before the war could be

terminated. But, says the hon. member, you have very powerful allies,

who would have assisted you. France is a large military power, capable

of great efforts. Then you have Sweden, too, burning with desire to

break a lance with Russia, on the question of Polish independence.

What man in his sober senses, even if Sweden made such a proposition,

and were ready to join us against Russia, would not have said, 'For

God's sake, remain quiet and do nothing?' [Mr. Anstey: I said,

that Sweden was arming her fleet, with the intention of making a

demonstration against the Russian provinces in the Baltic; but the

noble Lord remonstrated with Sweden for doing so, and induced her to

disarm.] Well, there is not much difference between us. I do not think

a demonstration by a Swedish fleet on the shores of the Baltic would

have been long maintained without a corresponding demonstration of the

Russian fleet in Cronstadt, and it is pretty clear which of them would

go to the wall; and then we should have had to defend Sweden against

Russian attack; and unless we had been prepared to send a large army

to her aid, we should have sacrificed her to no purpose. I say, Sir,

the man with the interests of Russia most dearly at his heart, could

have done nothing better for Russia than stimulate Sweden into a

dispute with Russia, by inducing her to make an armed demonstration

on her shores, and thus to draw down upon her the vengeance and

overwhelming power of that empire. If Sweden had been ready to make

such a demonstration with her gunboats on the coast of Russia, and had

asked us for our advice, the best thing we could have said would have

been, 'Don't do anything half so foolish; we are not prepared to send

an army and a fleet to defend you, and don't give Russia a cause to

attack you.' But there was another empire burning with desire to

join us against Russia. Turkey, we were told by the hon. and learned

member, with 200,000 cavalry, was ready to carry demonstration to the

very walls of St. Petersburg--perhaps to carry off the Emperor himself

from his throne. What was the state of Turkey then? In 1831 she had

engaged in a war with Russia, in which, after two campaigns, her arms

were repulsed and driven back into their own empire, so that she was

compelled at Adrianople to accept conditions of peace, hard in

their nature, and demanding a sacrifice of an important part of her

territory, but to which she was advised in friendly counsel by the

British Ambassador to submit, for fear of having to endure still

worse. We are told that, two or three years after this great disaster,

Turkey was of such amazing enterprise and courage, and was furnished

with such a wonderful quantity of cavalry, that she was prepared to

send 200,000 horse (which she never had in all her life) over the

frontiers of Russia, and sweep her territory. Now this is, of all

the wild dreams that ever crossed the mind of man, one of the most

unlikely and extraordinary. But supposing all this had been true,

and that Turkey really was prepared to do all the hon. and learned

gentleman said she was, I should have given her just the same advice

that I should have offered Sweden under the same circumstances, and

should have said, 'Have you not been beaten enough? Are you mad? Do

you want the Russians to get Constantinople instead of Adrianople?

Will nothing satisfy you? We cannot come and defend you against your

powerful neighbour. She is on your frontiers, and do not give her any

just cause for attacking you.' Then the hon. and learned gentleman

told us of the Shah of Persia, how the gunboats of Sweden, the troops

of Austria, the fine cavalry of Turkey, the magnificent legions of

Persia, were ready all to pour in upon Russia in revenge for the

injuries which the inhabitants of the Baltic coasts inflicted upon

Europe in former centuries, and would have stripped Russia of her

finest provinces. Now, what had happened to Persia? In 1827, she

had very foolishly and thoughtlessly, against advice, rushed into a

conflict with Russia, and had seen herself reduced to make a treaty,

not only surrendering important provinces, but giving Russia the

advantage of hoisting her flag in the Caspian. She had gone to

war with a powerful antagonist, and been compelled to submit to

humiliating concessions. Can you suppose that Persia, in that state of

things, would have been ready to march against Russia for the sake of

assisting Poland? In the disastrous struggle which ensued, Poland

was overthrown; the suspension of its constitution followed, and the

substitution of what was called the 'organic statute'. The Russian

Government pronounced that civil war had abrogated it, and they

re-entered Poland as conquerors. I am not asserting the justice of

that, but the contrary; we always maintained a different view. I need

not remind the House how deep a sympathy the sufferings of Poland

excited in this country. Many things have passed in Poland since that

time which the British Government greatly regrets, and in respect to

which the rights laid down by treaty have been violated. But when we

are asked why the British Government have not enforced treaty rights

in every case, my answer is, that the only method of enforcing them

would have been by methods of hostility; and that I do not think those

questions were questions of sufficient magnitude in their bearing on

the interests of England, to justify any Government in calling on the

people of this country to encounter the burdens and hazards of war for

the purpose of maintaining those opinions. Then comes the question of

Cracow. I deny the justice of the reproach which the hon. member

has directed against me on that head, of an infraction of the just

requirements of good faith. It is perfectly true, that in a discussion

in this House we stated our intention of sending a Consul to Cracow;

but we were not at that time aware of all the objections entertained

to that step by other Powers who had an interest in the question,

and who possessed great influence in Cracow. Communications and

correspondence took place, not only with them, but with the Cracovian

authorities, and we were plainly told, that if our Consul went to

Cracow he would not be received. What were we to do under those

circumstances? The Government of Cracow, though nominally independent,

was practically under the control and protection of the three

protecting Powers; and whatever they ordered that Government to do,

it was plain they would do. It therefore became the Government to

consider whether there really was any cause for the presence of a

British Consul at Cracow, which was of sufficient importance to make

it worth while to insist on his presence, at the risk of not obtaining

the end. We should then have been exposed to an affront from the

miserable little Government at Cracow, not acting on its own

responsibility, towards whom nothing could have been directed in

vindication of the honour of the British Crown; and our only course

would have been a rupture with the three Powers, after we had been

warned of the rejection of our Consul. Well, then, considering the

importance attached in this country, not merely to peace, but to a

really good understanding with foreign Powers, wherever there are

great interests and powerful motives to amity which would be violated

by hostilities, I thought the best course would be to abandon the

intention we had entertained, and which we had announced in the

discussion in this House. It does not follow, when a Minister

announces in Parliament an intention to perform a public act, that it

is to be considered like a promise made to an individual, or by one

private man to another, and that it is to be made a reproach to him

if the intention be not carried out. We are here responsible to the

country for the advice we give the Crown. We are responsible for all

the consequences which that advice may bring on the country. We are

not dealing with our own affairs; it is not a question of what we may

do with our private property; but when a Minister finds he cannot do a

particular act without compromising the interests of the country, and

that these will suffer from his executing his intention, it is his

duty to give up that intention, and to consult the interests of the

country in preference to every other consideration. That is the

history of the Consul who was to have been at Cracow. We have been

asked to produce the correspondence relating to the transaction; and I

do not know that there would be any particular objection to doing so.

It consists of angry notes on one side and the other, and I cannot

think we should be promoting a good understanding with, the three

Powers by producing it; but as far as concerns its being a record of

anything I have done, or have not done, I have no objection. The hon.

member asks for all the correspondence which may have passed from the

year 1835 downwards on the subject of the Russian fleet in commission

in the Baltic. I do not recollect that any particular communications

took place on this subject between the British Government on the one

hand, and those of Russia or France on the other. Of course, it is

utterly impossible for a Power which, like England, depends mainly for

its security on its naval defence, not to watch with attentive anxiety

the armaments or the state of naval preparation which from time to

time may exist in other great countries. Therefore our attention may,

no doubt, have been more or less directed, especially when questions

of great difficulty and delicacy have been pending between Russia

and England, and a state of mutual distrust to some extent existed,

towards the naval footing of Russia both in the Baltic and Black

Sea. Of course, also, though I do not particularly recollect the

circumstance as having happened in 1835 or 1836, the immense amount

of naval preparation in France must always form an element in the

consideration of the Government of this country, in taking into

account the means which England must possess to maintain its station

amongst the empires of the world. I have now gone through, as far as

memory and time permitted, the principal topics on which he touched.

It was only last night I was able to put together the observations I

have ventured to offer to the House. I have taken them in the order he

stated them in the motion of which he gave notice. Upon the general

character of my public conduct I can only repeat what I said when last

I had the honour to address this House. I can only say, if any one in

this House should think fit to make an inquiry into the whole of my

political conduct, both as recorded in official documents, or in

private letters and correspondence, there is nothing which I would not

most willingly submit to the inspection of any reasonable man in this

House. I will add, that I am conscious of some of those offences which

have been charged against me by the hon. and learned member. I am

conscious that, during the time for which I have had the honour to

direct the foreign relations of this country I have devoted to them

all the energies which I possess. Other men might have acted, no

doubt, with more ability--none could have acted with a more entire

devotion both of their time and faculties. The principle on which I

have thought the foreign affairs of this country ought to be conducted

is, the principle of maintaining peace and friendly understanding with

all nations, so long as it was possible to do so consistently with

a due regard to the interests, the honour, and the dignity of

this country. My endeavours have been to preserve peace. All the

Governments of which I have had the honour to be a member have

succeeded in accomplishing that object. The main charges brought

against me are, that I did not involve this country in perpetual

quarrels from one end of the globe to the other. There is no country

that has been named, from the United States to the empire of China,

with respect to which part of the hon. member's charge has not been,

that we have refrained from taking steps that might have plunged us

into conflict with one or more of these Powers. On these occasions we

have been supported by the opinion and approbation of Parliament and

the public. We have endeavoured to extend the commercial relations of

the country, or to place them where extension was not required, on a

firmer basis, and upon a footing of greater security. Surely in that

respect we have not judged amiss, nor deserved the censure of the

country; on the contrary, I think we have done good service. I hold

with respect to alliances, that England is a Power sufficiently

strong, sufficiently powerful, to steer her own course, and not to

tie herself as an unnecessary appendage to the policy of any other

Government. I hold that the real policy of England--apart from

questions which involve her own particular interests, political or

commercial--is to be the champion of justice and right; pursuing that

course with moderation and prudence, not becoming the Quixote of

the world, but giving the weight of her moral sanction and support

wherever she thinks that justice is, and wherever she thinks that

wrong has been done. Sir, in pursuing that course, and in pursuing the

more limited direction of our own particular interests, my conviction

is, that as long as England keeps herself in the right, as long as she

wishes to permit no injustice, as long as she wishes to countenance no

wrong, as long as she labours at legislative interests of her own, and

as long as she sympathizes with right and justice, she never will find

herself altogether alone. She is sure to find some other state, of

sufficient power, influence, and weight, to support and aid her in

the course she may think fit to pursue. Therefore I say that it is a

narrow policy to suppose that this country or that is to be marked

out as the eternal ally or the perpetual enemy of England. We have no

eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are

eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow.

When we find other countries marching in the same course, and pursuing

the same objects as ourselves, we consider them as our friends, and we

think for the moment that we are on the most cordial footing; when we

find other countries that take a different view, and thwart us in the

object we pursue, it is our duty to make allowance for the different

manner in which they may follow out the same objects. It is our duty

not to pass too harsh a judgement upon others, because they do not

exactly see things in the same light as we see; and it is our duty not

lightly to engage this country in the frightful responsibilities

of war, because from time to time we may find this or that Power

disinclined to concur with us in matters where their opinion and ours

may fairly differ. That has been, so far as my faculties have allowed

me to act upon it, the guiding principle of my conduct. And if I might

be allowed to express in one sentence the principle which I think

ought to guide an English Minister, I would adopt the expression of

Canning, and say that with every British Minister the interests of

England ought to be the shibboleth of his policy.

HENRY, LORD BROUGHAM

JULY 20, 1849

ITALIAN AFFAIRS

Whoever, my Lords, would undertake the discussion of any difficult and

delicate question touching the foreign policy of the country, ought,

above all things, to free himself from every feeling of hatred or of

anger, and from all personal and from all national prejudices, which

might tend to disturb the equanimity of his judgement. For, when the

mind labours under any such feelings, expressions are apt to be used

which, whether they are well understood or ill understood, give

umbrage elsewhere, and endanger the peace as well as the policy, in a

word, all the highest interests of the country. I present myself to

your Lordships to handle the important subject of which I have given

notice, under the deep impression of sentiments such as these; and it

will be no fault of mine if I am betrayed into any discussion, or even

into any passing remark, which shall give offence in any quarter, at

home or abroad, and shall thus endanger what is most essential to the

interests of the country, a good understanding with, and a friendly

feeling towards, foreign nations. It gives me great satisfaction,

seeing that I have to express a difference of opinion from my

noble friends opposite, and to blame the measures which they have

adopted,--it gives me great satisfaction, I say, to commence what I am

about to state, by declaring my entire approval of such sentiments as

I am about to cite, in language far better than my own, used by them

when they instructed our envoy at the Court of the Two Sicilies to

give the 'strongest assurance of the earnest desire of the British

Government to draw, if possible, still closer the bonds of friendship

which had so long united the crowns of Great Britain and the Two

Sicilies'. It is therefore grateful, most grateful to me--whilst I

join in their sentiments, which are better expressed than I could

have expressed them, but not more warmly expressed than I would have

expressed them--that, in the remarks which I am about to make, and

which are wrung from me by the accusations brought against the

Ministers, the authorities, and the troops of Naples, I shall, in the

true sense of the passage I have just quoted, have to defend those

Ministers, those authorities, and those troops from attacks which

have been made upon them by the authors of that passage injuriously,

inconsiderately, and unjustly.

The dispatch to which I have just alluded, is dated December 16, 1847.

But, somehow or other, events happened soon after which make it hardly

possible to suppose that the same hand which wrote that dispatch,

could have written the subsequent instructions, or that the same

agents who had to obey the former instructions, and to represent the

feelings of old attachment, of which it was impossible to draw the

bonds closer, could have been instructed so soon afterwards as January

18, 1848, to take a course entirely and diametrically opposite.

It would give me great satisfaction if, having thus accidentally

touched upon the transactions of Southern Italy, I could proceed at

once thither in the progress on which I am now asking your Lordships

to accompany me. But I find, my Lords, from what has been taking place

within the last few weeks, how reluctant so ever I may be to discuss

the events of the northern divisions of Italy, and recur to questions

often agitated here, and by none of your Lordships more ably than by

the noble Earl near me (Lord Aberdeen), that I must allude to the

conduct of his late Sardinian Majesty, to the still unfinished

negotiations between Sardinia and Austria, to the still unremoved

fleets of Sardinia in the Adriatic, to the beleaguering of Austria in

her Venetian dominions, and to the prevention of her employing her

undivided resources in crushing the rebellion in the eastern parts of

her empire; and that I cannot examine the whole foreign policy of

this country without adverting to the events which have happened in

Northern Italy. It was at the beginning of the present session of

Parliament that I had occasion to foretell before your Lordships the

speedy discomfiture of the then monarch of Sardinia by the victorious

troops of Marshal Radetzky. After a temporary success the year before,

his Sardinian Majesty had been repulsed, had been compelled to repass

the Ticino, had been driven to seek protection within the walls of his

own capital, and had only not been pursued within those walls because

his opponents had mercifully abstained from urging their victory

to the utmost, and had preferred the redemption of their pledge of

maintaining the Treaties of Vienna and the settlement of territory

made under them, to the enlargement of their dominions and to the

exaction of security against any repetition of the offence which

they had so signally chastised. The firmest friend of Sardinia,--the

stoutest champion of that distribution of territory to which I have

referred,--my noble friend himself near the wool-sack (the Duke of

Wellington), who completed by his skill in negotiation the still more

glorious triumph of his arms in the field, not one of these parties

could have objected to the Austrians crossing the Ticino, exacting

vengeance from Sardinia, and taking from its monarch, according to

all the laws of war, according to the strict law of nations, ample

security against the repetition of a similar transgression. Marshal

Radetzky, however, acted a merciful part, and was wiser in so doing

than if he had justifiably acted with greater severity. He and his

imperial master showed that they were above all sordid, all selfish

feeling. I only lament that the marshal stopped so short of that

which he had a right to do. An acre of land I would not have taken to

increase the dominions of one sovereign, or to diminish the territory

of the other; but I would have shown the monarch of Sardinia, I would

have shown the world, that it was not from fear, but from magnanimity,

that I had resolved to stop short of the full rights of victory. Then

it was said, 'Oh, but now we shall have peace.' Mediation was talked

of, and mediation was offered--the mediation of Great Britain, of the

success of which I never entertained any hopes. That any great benefit

would arise from such a proceeding, I thought just as unlikely as that

in private life, when two individuals have quarrelled about a disputed

right, had gone to law to ascertain which had the better title, and

one of them had gained a verdict and had entered up judgement, this

winning party would accept an offer to refer all the matters in

dispute to arbitration, just before execution issued. In such a case

the matter in dispute is at an end, and though the party who has lost

the cause may have no objection to such a reference, it will never be

so with the party who has gained it. I therefore told my friend, Sir

H. Ellis, who was appointed to superintend the proceedings of our

mediation, that as the matter in dispute between Austria and Sardinia

was at an end, I did not anticipate that with all his skill he would

have any success as a negotiator in this strange arbitration. 'Oh,'

I was told, 'Austria will abide by it.' Yes, I know that Austria

certainly would, if she submitted to the mediation and perhaps

Sardinia also; but little did I know Sardinian counsels when I said

so.

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