[_The document was handed to the defendant._]
THE PRESIDENT: Do you have the PS number?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: No, Sir; that is a USSR document.
[_Turning to the defendant._] There is an addendum, Number 2, to your
directive dated 8 September 1942. This addendum is entitled, “Memorandum
for housewives concerning the employment of domestic workers from the
East in urban and rural households.” Do you know this document? This
memorandum?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I shall now quote a few excerpts in order to describe
the conditions which you imposed on those Ukrainian women and girls who
had been sent to work on agricultural tasks in Germany. Please find
Section B, “Registration with the Police, Identification, Supervision.”
Have you found that section?
SAUCKEL: No, not quite.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Section B. Have you found it?
SAUCKEL: Page 4?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Section B, “Registration with the Police,
Identification, Supervision,” contains the following instructions:
“The Eastern female worker is obliged to wear the identification
badge ‘Ost’ on the right breast of each of her outer garments.”
SAUCKEL: I cannot find it. I have not found it.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: You will find it later. That order is included there.
SAUCKEL: Yes; but, please, I must be able to follow you.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Have you found it?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Now Paragraph 4. It is entitled “Labor Conditions.” It
is written there:
“Women domestic workers from the East employed in the Reich are
under special working conditions.”
We shall see later on what these special conditions were. Please find
Paragraph 9, Sentence 1, “Free Time.” The opening sentence states:
“No claim to free time exists.”
SAUCKEL: Yes, but I must ask you to read on. It says exactly the same as
in the case of the German household staff, who also...
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I shall now read the whole of Paragraph 9 into the
record.
THE PRESIDENT: General, I do not think you should interrupt him when he
is making a legitimate explanation. You should wait until he has made
his explanation, and then draw attention to anything in the rest of the
document that you wish to. Now, what did you wish to say, Defendant?
SAUCKEL: I asked for a further part to be read. There is a sentence in
which it is stated a weekly outing can nevertheless be granted. May I
read the sentence once more:
“Women domestic workers from the East may, as a matter of
principle, only go outside the confines of the household when
attending to household matters. However, on a probationary
basis, as a reward, the opportunity may be given them once a
week to remain outside the household for 3 hours without having
work to do.”
The same also held good for German domestic workers at that time. Free
time amounts to the same thing.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: It is written differently here. No free time was
allowed them. It says:
“...as a reward, the opportunity may be given them to remain
outside the household once a week 3 hours without having work to
do. This outing must end before darkness falls, but by 2000
hours at the latest.”
So there is no mention here of a day off, but of 3 hours off. Now find
Paragraph 10.
SAUCKEL: But I did not say that. Because of the blackout, this curfew
applied also to German employees during the war.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Now find Paragraph 10: “Leave and return home.” That is
the heading of this particular passage. Have you found it? It is
written:
“For the time being no leave shall be granted. Women domestic
workers from the East are recruited for an indefinite time.”
SAUCKEL: I should like to add, in this connection...
THE PRESIDENT: General, I think you can pass on from this. You
know—this is not a matter of very great importance.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Mr. President, I should like Defendant Sauckel to
explain the discrepancies which have arisen in his testimony with regard
to Document EC-68, and with regard to what was written in his directive
concerning the employment of Ukrainian women for domestic service in
Germany. I wish to receive this reply in order to eliminate the
discrepancies which have arisen.
SAUCKEL: I am in a position to answer that question very precisely.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Yes?
SAUCKEL: This directive was not composed by me alone. Quite a large
number of paragraphs were introduced at that time by the Reichsführer
SS. Already as far back as the spring of 1943 I succeeded in having
these paragraphs altered and the indefinite time of employment for the
Eastern Workers was limited to 2 years. Furthermore, in a document which
I believe my defense counsel will also submit to the Tribunal, it is
proved that the removal of the restrictions applied to the Eastern
Workers was the result of my endeavors. I tried to remove these
restrictions in the very beginning, as I correctly stated in my first
answer, so that the Eastern Workers stood on equal footing to other
foreign workers and to the German workers.
That was my aim and my conception of my duty as I performed it. I was
particularly glad to do this for the Eastern Workers as they were the
best workers we had in Germany.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I now go on to the next question. On 18 August 1942 you
had a meeting with Defendant Frank in Kraków. I shall read out what has
been written about this meeting in Frank’s diary. That is Document
Number USSR-223. In the diary for 1942, Volume III, Page 918, is
written:
“I am happy to be able to inform you officially that we have so
far transported more than 800,000 workers into the Reich.
“A short time ago you applied for 140,000 more workers.
“Over and above this figure of 140,000, however, you can next
year count on a further number of workers from the Government
General, for we shall employ the Police for recruiting
purposes.”
Does that tally with the actual facts? Did such a conversation between
you and Frank take place? Has it been correctly entered in his diary?
SAUCKEL: I cannot possibly confirm an entry which I have never seen
before, and details of which I cannot possibly recollect. I therefore
cannot say that all of it is correct. Those were future possibilities
visualized by Herr Frank. I can, however, on the strength of the
documents before me, say that the employment of Polish civilian
workers...
THE PRESIDENT: If you do not remember, why can you not say so and stop?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: But did he speak to you about resorting to police
methods in the recruitment of manpower, or did he not mention it? Do you
remember this, or do you not?
SAUCKEL: I cannot possibly remember this communication which took place
in 1942. Conditions at that time were so utterly different.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: In his activities, where the recruiting of manpower was
concerned, did Defendant Funk resort to police measures or not? Do you
know about it?
SAUCKEL: I cannot, from my own knowledge, tell you whether the Governor
General solved this problem by the employment of police forces or not.
Please ask him himself.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I am submitting a document to the Tribunal, Document
Number USSR-469, which describes the methods of labor recruitment as
applied in the territory of Poland. This document is an official
directive, printed by the Kreishauptmann of the Minsk and Warsaw
district. It is dated 2 February 1943. This directive was handed to
Kazimir Navak, who was born on the 6 May 1926, and resided in Dyzin in
the Kolbey community. It reads:
“Pursuant to the compulsory service decree dated 13 May 1942
_Verordnungsblatt_, GG, Page 255, I direct you to labor service
in the Reich.”
The following stands at the bottom of this page:
“In case of insubordination...”
THE PRESIDENT: Is this a document you are putting in evidence now for
the first time?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: This document is being presented for the first time.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we have not got the document. Have you any copies
of it?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Yes, it should have been handed to you. The document,
Mr. President, is not included in the document book.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you offering it now for the first time, or is it
already in evidence?
Did you not hear that?
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Yes, I hear you, Mr. President. This document is being
presented for the first time.
THE PRESIDENT: We do not seem to have it anyhow. I mean, I have not a
copy of it.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: The original document has just been handed to the
defendant, and he has got it. The copies in German were handed to the
Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: I have it now in German.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: It is stated at the bottom of this decree:
“Should you disobey this compulsory service decree, the members
of your family (parents, wife, brothers, sisters, and children)
will be placed in a punitive camp and will be liberated only
after you have presented yourself. Moreover, I reserve for
myself the right to confiscate your personal and real property
as well as the personal and real property of the members of your
family. Moreover you, in accordance with Paragraph 5 of the
above-mentioned decree, will be punished with confinement in
prison, or with penal servitude, or with internment in a
concentration camp.
“Kreishauptmann Dr. Bittrich.”
Did you know anything about the application of such methods for the
recruitment of manpower in the territory of Poland and of the existence
of Defendant Frank’s decrees?
SAUCKEL: I can openly and clearly answer that the threat of such
penalties in this form was completely unknown to me and that I would
never have mentioned it. If I had learned of it, I would have stopped it
immediately. I must, however, beg permission to tell the Tribunal that
this appendix at the end of the document, regarded as coming from my
office, is incorrect, and was not sanctioned by me. The first paragraph
of this document reads correctly and I request permission to quote it.
It is in keeping with German labor legislation and runs:
“Pursuant to the compulsory service decree, _Verordnungsblatt_,
GG, Page 255, dated 13 May 1942, I direct you to labor service
in the Reich.
“Your employment in the Reich will be under properly regulated
working conditions and your wages will be paid according to a
regular scale. Wage savings can be transmitted regularly by you
to your home. Close relatives, to whose support you have
hitherto been substantially contributing, may apply to the labor
office for special allowances.”
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Was that written at the bottom of the decree?
THE PRESIDENT: I do not think we need the details.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I want to remind you now of certain directives which
were issued with regard to the so-called recruitment of labor,
directives which were issued by your government organizations in
Germany, and personally by yourself in your own famous program. The
document is Document Number USSR-365, and you wrote the following...
SAUCKEL: I have not got it here.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: You will be helped to find it.
Have you been shown the passage which I am now going to read into the
record?
SAUCKEL: Yes.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: It is written there:
“It is therefore unavoidably necessary to exhaust completely the
manpower reserves now available in the conquered Soviet
territories. If it is not possible to obtain required workers on
a voluntary basis then steps must be taken immediately to
conscript them or bring in compulsion.”
Did you issue these instructions?
SAUCKEL: I have not found these passages so far. They have not been
pointed out to me properly.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: You will at once be shown the passage again.
Did you ever issue these instructions?
SAUCKEL: I myself was not able to issue orders for compulsory service in
the occupied territories; that had to be done by the district
authorities. But by compulsion I did not understand that penalties would
be threatened to the extent as stated in that one document signed by
Bittrich, but that they would be in keeping with German regulations.
That is a very substantial difference.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Was that which I have just read out to you included in
your program or not?
SAUCKEL: It is in my program—but I have expressly stated that I was
directed to do that by the Führer.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: Let us proceed. In the letter of 3 October 1942
addressed to Gauleiter Meyer you wrote—this document, Number 017-PS
will be handed to you in a moment. Please follow me when I read:
“I do not underestimate the difficulties connected with the
execution of the new task, but I am convinced that with the
ruthless employment of all means”—I should like to underline
that ‘all means’—“and with the absolute devotion of all
concerned, the new quota can be filled by the date fixed.”
Did you write that?
SAUCKEL: I wrote that, yes. But I want you to let me give you an
explicit explanation: In all my directives I invariably demanded the
most considerate treatment for the workers; that has already been proved
in the Trial. When I refer here to the ruthless use of all means, I only
mean the ruthless use of all technical means and propaganda, because I
had been told from different sources that such means were not available
there to a sufficient degree. This is an explanation of what led up to
this letter.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: On 31 March 1942 you addressed a letter to the Reich
commissioners. This letter will be presented to you in a few minutes. It
is Document Number USSR-137. Here you wrote as follows:
“I request that the recruitment, for which you together with the
commissioners are responsible to me, be speeded up on your part
by adequate measures, if necessary by the application of
compulsory labor in the severest form, so that the recruitment
figures may be trebled in the shortest possible time.”
Did you issue this directive?
SAUCKEL: That is my directive and I issued it. By the severest use of
compulsory labor I meant no wicked or criminal measures, but rather, if
it was necessary that it should be used, it was with reference to the
number, the number to be made up.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: I shall now quote a few excerpts from the documents of
other people. I shall begin by reading an excerpt from a speech by
Defendant Rosenberg, Document Number USSR-170, which was delivered at
the conference of the German Labor Front in November 1942. I shall quote
a brief excerpt from this speech:
“...millions of Russians, trembling with fright, react in the
same way...”
SAUCKEL: I have not found it.
GEN. ALEXANDROV: You will be helped in one moment.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps we had better adjourn now.
[_The Tribunal recessed until 1400 hours._]
_Afternoon Session_
DR. NELTE: I should like to draw the Tribunal’s attention to the
following fact: General Alexandrov this morning referred to Document
Number 744-PS. First of all a document was given me which was described
as a German translation. That translation contains things which are
obviously impossible.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Nelte, you said 744?