“(a) Troops which are in action against partisans will, in
addition, be used for recruiting labor in the zones held by
partisan bands. Any person who cannot give a satisfactory reason
for his staying in that region will be compulsorily recruited.
“(b) If large towns are totally or partially evacuated owing to
food difficulties, all the population capable of work will be
recruited for labor with the aid of the Wehrmacht.
“(c) A special effort for recruiting labor among refugees from
areas close to the front must be made with the aid of the
Wehrmacht.
“Gauleiter Sauckel accepted these proposals with gratitude and
expressed the hope that results would be obtained by these
means.”
Do you still continue to claim that the Wehrmacht did not co-operate in
the recruiting of labor?
SAUCKEL: I did not deny that in the combat area, and for the purpose of
maintaining order in the rear areas, these measures were proposed, but
they were not carried through.
M. HERZOG: Well, I am going to produce a document which refers to 3 or 4
days after this meeting of ministers. It is a telegram from Defendant
Keitel, Document Number F-814, which I submit to the Tribunal under
Exhibit Number RF-1516. It is a telegram addressed by Defendant Keitel
to all military commanders. I call your attention to the fact that it
bears the stamp of the labor department of the military commander in
France. This is dated 15 July and here is the text of it...
THE PRESIDENT: M. Herzog, some of these documents are not tabbed and it
is quite impossible to find them unless you tell us where they are.
M. HERZOG: I have tabbed only those documents which I intend to use
several times, so that the Tribunal will be able to find them easily.
Otherwise, the documents must be in the order in which I use them.
Document F-814 should, therefore, be immediately after Document 3819-PS,
unless I am mistaken.
THE PRESIDENT: 3819, you mean?
M. HERZOG: Actually it is after the document marked Document RF-15; it
is the fourth document after Document F-814.
THE PRESIDENT: We have got 815 after that; after RF-15, we have Document
F-815.
M. HERZOG: After 815 we have Document F-823, then F-824, and F-814, Mr.
President.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, yes, now I see it.
M. HERZOG: This document contains the instructions which Keitel gave in
connection with this meeting of leaders. I read the second paragraph:
“The present situation demands the use of all conceivable means
for the procurement of additional labor, because it is the
fighting men who benefit first of all by all armament measures.
In view of this fact, all questions concerning internal unrest,
the increase of resistance and such matters must be put in the
background. We must concentrate on giving every help and support
to the Plenipotentiary General for the Allocation of Labor. I
refer to my directives for the co-operation of the Wehrmacht in
the procurement of workers from France.”
Do you still contend that the Wehrmacht was not used for the recruitment
of labor?
SAUCKEL: I must emphasize here again that I did not dispute that these
things had been planned and ordered. I did not dispute that fact, and I
should like to emphasize that again. But these measures were not carried
through, and I would like to emphasize that also. And besides that, I
did not send this telegram.
M. HERZOG: Is it correct to say that the German Police proceeded to take
steps to recruit foreign workers?
SAUCKEL: How far the Police carried through their measures in detail, I
do not know, but I do know that they carried through some measures on
their own accord.
M. HERZOG: But is it not true that you recommended your offices to put
themselves in touch with the chiefs of the Police, the SD, and the SS?
SAUCKEL: I considered both the SD and the Police to be regular and
justified institutions, and I had to ask for their help when it was
necessary.
M. HERZOG: You, therefore, admit that you recommended your offices to
put themselves in contact with the chiefs of the Police, the SD, and the
SS for the accomplishment of their tasks?
SAUCKEL: To support me in my tasks only where an orderly participation
or the use of the Police was necessary from an administrative point of
view—not for the recruitment of workers as such, but only to remove
difficulties or disturbances in administration.
M. HERZOG: I ask you the question again, and I ask you to answer “yes”
or “no.” Did you recommend your offices to get in touch with the chiefs
of the Police, the SS, and the SD?
SAUCKEL: I can only answer that question with a qualified “yes”—on
occasions when it was necessary to call in police aid; not in order to
carry through the task itself.
M. HERZOG: Is it true that the chiefs of the German Police assisted in
the conferences which you held with the French authorities concerning
the recruitment of labor?
SAUCKEL: Sometimes representatives of the Higher SS and Police Leader
were present just as in the case of the French, where the Minister of
the Interior or the Minister of the Police was present. I neither
demanded that nor proposed it.
M. HERZOG: But you admit that the representatives of the German Police
were present at these discussions? Can you give the name of one of these
representatives? Do you know Standartenführer Knochen?
SAUCKEL: Standartenführer Knochen was in Paris, and on occasions he was
present at these conferences.
M. HERZOG: Is it correct that the chiefs of the German Police attended
the conferences which the German authorities held concerning labor
problems?
SAUCKEL: To my recollection they attended various conferences, but that
occurred at the proposal of the military commander, under whose
direction these conferences took place.
M. HERZOG: Was there a representative of the Police at the conference of
chiefs on 11 July 1944, which we mentioned just now in Document 3819-PS?
SAUCKEL: Do you mean the meeting at Berlin?