Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And congressional resolution and also a copy of the rules
of procedure of the Commission concerning the taking of testimony.
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You received the letter and copies of the documents?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Our questioning of you today will be concerned basically
with the knowledge of the Oswalds which you might have gained as a
result of your association with them in 1962. Before I get into that,
I would like to have you state your full name for the record, if you
would.
Mrs. RAY. Mrs. Frank H. Ray.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you live?
Mrs. RAY. I live 4524 Alta Vista, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you born, Mrs. Ray?
Mrs. RAY. In Stalino, Ukraine.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is in the Ukraine; it is the Soviet Union?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. When were you born?
Mrs. RAY. June 9, 1927.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did it come about that you came to the United States?
Mrs. RAY. When I was 14 years old Germans occupy my part of Ukraine and
they take me to Germany as slave labor. I work for Germans from 1942
until 1945, then Americans occupy part of Germany where I live.
Mr. LIEBELER. What part of Germany?
Mrs. RAY. Dusseldorf on Rhine; in March of 1945, Americans occupy that
part of Germany and I went to work for Americans and then I married an
American and came over here. This was in 1946, July 18.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was his name?
Mrs. RAY. Henry W. Bahlkow.
Mr. LIEBELER. He was a member of the U.S. Army?
Mrs. RAY. Yes, 36th Division and he was--I don't know what outfit at
the time but I know it was field artillery. I can give you present
address if that help.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is he living in St. Louis?
Mrs. RAY. No, Hicksville, Long Island?
Mr. LIEBELER. What is his address?
Mrs. RAY. I forget number--Evelyn Street. Evelyn Street--it would
be easy to look it up and he works for Sperry Gyroscope. He is an
electrical engineer over there.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were taken from Russia at the age of 14?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you work for the Germans after that time?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. I imagine that kind of interfered with your formal
education?
Mrs. RAY. Let's say it stopped it completely.
Mr. LIEBELER. What formal educational background do you have?
Mrs. RAY. I finished seventh grade over there in Russia but I think--I
don't know whether it is a little bit more or not. I had already gotten
into algebra, geometry, and physics and I don't know how you compare
schools here to school over there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any formal education other than that?
Mrs. RAY. When I came over here I went to International Institute in
St. Louis for about 2 years to learn to speak English and then I went
to Roosevelt High School, St. Louis, finished school and Washington
University 2 years to study American history and English for my citizen
papers and I became citizen 1949.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you move to Dallas?
Mrs. RAY. I moved in Dallas June of 1954. See, I married in June of
1954; I remarried.
Mr. LIEBELER. What does your present husband do?
Mrs. RAY. He is in advertising; it is specialty advertising by the name
of Pollock and Ray.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is located in Dallas?
Mrs. RAY. 3508 Dickason.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did there come a time you met Lee Harvey and Marina
Oswald?
Mrs. RAY. Yes; I am not sure about the month. I mean closest I could
come to it, I imagine, would be early November 1962. She had been
staying at Mrs. Ford's house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Marina had?
Mrs. RAY. Yes; and Mrs. Ford called me up and said would I please see
if I could keep her at my house a little while since she was going to
have company. I said certainly she was welcome. She was alone with
baby at the time and she came to my house on a Saturday. I am not sure
about the date; all I know is the day; spent 1 day with me and since
I have no baby bed she went back to Mrs. Ford's house. Sunday I moved
her completely over to my house with baby clothes and crib and that
Sunday afternoon, Lee called about 4 in the afternoon and he asked me
if he could come see his baby and wife and I said certainly he can come
out. He asked me "How I could get." I told him what bus to take and my
husband picked him up at corner filling station on Preston and Forest.
He came out and they went in bedroom to talk. At the time they had some
kind of separation, I understand, and they talked for about an hour in
the room by themselves and by that time it was getting to be suppertime
so I invited them to stay and have something to eat with us. He ate and
she decided to go back with him. He told her he rented an apartment so
my husband packed everything back up in the car and took them to an
apartment, I believe, at Elsbeth Street at the time and then I didn't
see him for about 3 or 4 months. Then I didn't see him for about 3 or
4 months, maybe 2 months. I had gathered a lot of baby clothes from my
neighbors and friends and took them down to Elsbeth Street and stayed
about a half hour, had a cup of coffee and I left.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was Lee there then?
Mrs. RAY. Yes; he was there at that time and I felt uncomfortable
because the more I talked the quieter he got and I felt a little out
of place and in a half hour I picked up and left. I brought all these
clothes for the baby. They didn't have anything in the house. He didn't
seem to be ungrateful but looked like "We don't need it." He didn't
say it but that look was on his face. Marina thanked me for the clothes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Lee did not thank you for the clothes?
Mrs. RAY. Didn't say a word. I hardly exchanged two words with him. I
talked with him that the baby was beautiful, small talk is all it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Going back to the time that Lee came out to your house
and talked with his wife----
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You said Lee had told Marina he rented an apartment?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have an impression they did not have an apartment
prior to that time?
Mrs. RAY. I got impression that they did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember how you got that impression?
Mrs. RAY. Because I asked Marina, you know, where he going to take
her. He said he had rented apartment. I said "What kind of apartment?"
She didn't say. She sounded to me like she didn't know what apartment
was going to be. She had never lived in that apartment. Later on when
I talked to her on everything she described apartment--"I have living
room, bedroom, kitchen, and bathroom"--so I am almost certain that is
the impression I am stuck with. I didn't know she had apartment. He
just rented to get them back. I have no idea how long she had been with
her friends after that day they fight. I know she was at Anna Meller's
and then Mrs. Ford's and then my house and prior to that I had no idea
where she has been.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you talk to Mrs. Ford about the reasons for the
Oswalds marital difficulties?
Mrs. RAY. I asked her what was matter and she said he was mean to her;
he beat her up and she left him because of that. I felt terrible sorry
for her because Mrs. Ford described to me she could not speak English
and didn't know anybody there. That's the only reason given to me that
he struck her or beat her up.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Ford didn't go into any greater detail as to what
reason for beating her up?
Mrs. RAY. No, no; when Marina came to my house I hated to butt in since
she was only with me 1 day and 2 days and didn't spend night. I don't
like to question somebody right away what is trouble, why did you
leave--I am not that nosey.
Mr. LIEBELER. This was the first time you met Marina when you went to
Mrs. Ford's to pick her up?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Had you heard about her prior to that time?
Mrs. RAY. Yes, about a year before from Mrs. Ford. She said there is a
new girl lives in Fort Worth; she just got here from Russia and, see, I
am not sure about that time, year, 6 months, and I said "I would very
much like to meet her to see how things are in Russia since it has been
almost 20 years since I left Russia" at that time. Of course, I was
very curious to find out if conditions had changed and what is going on
now. I think it is no more than normal curiosity on my part.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any conversations with Anna Meller about why
Marina came to stay with her or what the circumstances were?
Mrs. RAY. None with Anna Meller, not about Marina's circumstances at
all. I came to Mrs. Meller one time to pick up few things that Marina
left over there and that was the same time when I went over to take the
clothes to Marina's house. I picked up a few things at Anna Meller's
house but she had company at the time so we didn't have a chance to
talk. I just said hello, picked up the things and went to Oswald's
place on Elsbeth.
Mr. LIEBELER. At the first time that you met Oswald himself was on the
day that he came out to your house to talk to Marina----
Mrs. RAY. Yes; at my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you recall and tell us to the best of your
recollection what Oswald said at that time and what the conversation
was?
Mrs. RAY. My talk with him mostly just on--what did I talk to him
about? I am trying to remember. It really wasn't anything. We just
sort of talked about the children, small talk as I remember but he did
get into a conversation with my husband which was more on economics.
He could not understand how he have to work for somebody and man made
all the money and gave so little in return. Anyhow it was something
about workers and capitalists. As I can imagine my husband said some
things because, well, he worked hard all his life and had men work for
him. That was said at the house, then they had another conversation
in the car when he took to apartment. I was not present so I do not
know what they talking about. It was still on economics and my husband
just came in huffing, puffing, said he never met anybody dumber in his
life, doesn't understand simple economics or how anything works in this
country. He considered him a complete idiot. He didn't know how in the
world I got tied up with stupid people like that but I had very little
to say to Lee Oswald that evening he was at the house.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you spoke to Marina did you speak to her in Russian
or in English?
Mrs. RAY. In Russian at the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know whether Marina could understand English?
Mrs. RAY. At the time she could not understand but maybe few words like
simple words like if I say bread or--I would say she did not understand
maybe more than 2 dozen words and that would be simple things you use
every day in the kitchen, not any English at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss with Oswald the question of why he did
not try to teach Marina English?
Mrs. RAY. No; but who did I ask about that? I believe I asked Marina
why she didn't speak English with Oswald all the time. No; I did ask
Oswald that, I'm sorry, but that was not that evening. I asked him that
when I went to Elsbeth Street; I asked how come he didn't speak English
to her so she would learn. He said so he wouldn't forget his Russian.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you say in response to that?
Mrs. RAY. I said after she learns English they could speak Russian all
time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald make any response to that?
Mrs. RAY. None whatsoever. It was very hard to talk to him. He was
absolutely--you could ask him question, if you lucky, you might get
answer. He did not say one word.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Oswald drank at all?
Mrs. RAY. When he came over my husband and I sit down and had a drink.
I asked him if he would like to have something. He said "Thank you, I
don't drink," so I don't know whether it was just that day or period
but from the way he said it, I got the impression he did not drink
because he would have said I don't care for any today or something.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember anything more about the conversation
that occurred that first Sunday when Oswald came over?
Mrs. RAY. No; I don't think so; all was small talk. We talked about my
cat, how children behaved, things that had no meaning, just to keeping
the conversation going and he was so hard to talk to, why, I could not
find anything he was interested in and I did not know him well enough
to discuss anything else.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Marina tell you anything about her background in
Russia, where she was born, where she was raised?
Mrs. RAY. Sir, I don't know who told me that; it is so hard to remember
where I got the information from. I understand that she was raised by
her mother until mother die and she lived either with grandmother or
aunt, I am not sure. I think it is an aunt she said that raised her and
the first time--like I said, information was from everybody; it gets to
so and so and by that time, it got to me--first I heard about was she
was only child and later on I found out she has sister and brother in
Russia.
Mr. LIEBELER. She told you that?
Mrs. RAY. Yes; she did; she has sister in Russia.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did Marina tell you that?
Mrs. RAY. This was about 2 weeks ago when I visited her but from what I
understood before, she was only child. After her mother died she lived
with her aunt. Now, I don't know if Marina told me that or I got that
information from Mrs. Ford or some of the other people that I know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you say you are a friend of Mrs. Ford's?
Mrs. RAY. I have known Mrs. Ford for a long time. I would say yes. I
mean she is not my very closest friend but she is a friend; yes. I see
her now and then three or four times a year maybe sometimes more. She
is the first Russian I met here in Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you at the Ford's party between Christmas and New
Year's, 1962?
Mrs. RAY. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember seeing Oswald there?
Mrs. RAY. Yes; I do. I got there early because I had to bring some
hor d'oeuvres for the party and they walked in and I was very much
surprised to see them. I just said "Hello, how's the baby?" She said
"Fine" and then I went and started immediately with the other people.
He is so hard to talk to and this was a party and I did not want to
spend my time drawing it out of him and thought I would go where there
is better conversation going on and I did and in about an hour or so,
it seems like they were gone. I just spoke that one time "Hello, how
is the baby" and made few comments. They did not stay very long and
I think that is the first time she ever left baby with baby sitter;
somebody was talking care.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know how Oswald came to the party?