Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember what the discussion was at that time?
What did you talk about? Do you have any recollection?
Mrs. HALL. Well, when we went in, they didn't have any Christmas tree,
no nothing. And I looked and I said, "Where is your Christmas tree?"
And Lee said, "What Christmas tree?" And I said, "Well, everybody has a
Christmas tree." And Lee said, "No; we don't have Christmas tree."
Then John started to talk with him about religion. I think it was
Christmastime, yes; and then he said that it is just commercialized, a
commercialized holiday.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what your husband said in response to
that remark by Oswald?
Mrs. HALL. No; but I don't remember whether it was at that time or at
Easter when John talked with him and said, "Well, we sometimes come to
Dallas to go to church. If you want to, they will come and--we will
come and take you with us." And he said, "No; not me. If Marina wants,
she can go with you."
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald indicated that he himself did not care to go to
Church?
Mrs. HALL. He said no; he wouldn't, but if Marina wants, he didn't
believe in nothing.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Marina ever go to church with you and your husband?
Mrs. HALL. No; she never did go. Well, I never did see them after
Easter.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know after Marina moved out of your house where
she went?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I guess they had an apartment at Elsbeth.
Mr. LIEBELER. As far as you know, they moved to an apartment on Elsbeth
Street, and she stayed there with Lee until subsequently Lee moved
around the corner to an apartment on Neely Street, is that right?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. The first time when we went there on Christmas, we went
to Elsbeth. And the second time the landlord told me that they moved a
couple of blocks from it, so we went there on Eastertime.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever hear that Marina moved out of the apartment
on Elsbeth Street shortly after she returned to Lee and shortly after
she moved out of your house and went to live with a friend of hers in
Dallas?
Mrs. HALL. I think they had an argument and she left one night and
she went, I think, to Meller's house and she stayed there. That is
everything I hear. I don't know exactly, but through a friend you just
hear things like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't have any direct knowledge of that instance?
Mrs. HALL. No; I mean I wasn't in touch with them at all, never.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let's go back to the time that you went to Oswald's
apartment at Christmastime. Do you remember anything else that was
discussed at that time, or have you given us your best recollection as
to what the conversation was?
Mrs. HALL. With him?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; with him or with Marina.
Mrs. HALL. John was asking him a question, how does he like his work.
And does he learn something. And sometimes he can go into business for
himself. And so he said, "No; I never think that I will go to business
for myself."
And he said something about security, I don't have any security here
on my job. I don't know if I am still there another week or so. And he
said something about Russia.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did that seem to concern Oswald that he didn't know how
long he was going to have his job?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; he was concerned about that. And he said in Russia you
don't have to worry about that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald indicate that he wanted to go to Russia?
Mrs. HALL. No; well, he never did say.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you get the impression that he had a desire to return
to the Soviet Union?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; I think if he would have money, he would go back, but
she never did want to go back.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she tell you that?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did she tell you about that?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I was telling her--she said the life is so bad there.
Bad in a way like they don't have luxuries that they have here. They
don't have grocery stores like here and things like that. She missed
her--she don't have relatives--I think she has only, I mean she don't
have parents, but she has relatives, and she says, "Sometimes I miss
them but I wouldn't like to go back and live."
Mr. LIEBELER. She never at anytime indicated any desire to return to
Russia; is that right?
Mrs. HALL. In fact, I had the impression that she married him only to
just get out from that place.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you get that impression?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I don't know, because I don't think she ever loved him.
Mr. LIEBELER. What makes you say that, Mrs. Hall? What do you base that
statement on?
Mrs. HALL. Well, because they had arguments from the time they were
married, I think, and the little things she said, and seems like she
never did like him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she ever tell you specifically that she married
Oswald to come to the United States?
Mrs. HALL. No; she never did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss this question with your friend as to
whether or not Marina married him to get to come to the United States?
Mrs. HALL. I think I mentioned to somebody. I don't remember who.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think that was a generally held opinion then, in
the Russian community in Dallas that that was one of the reasons why
Marina married Oswald, or do you?
Mrs. HALL. No; I don't know what they thought.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned that on Easter you went to the Oswalds to
take a gift to the baby, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; that's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who was there at that time? Just Lee and Marina and the
baby and yourself and your husband?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you recall what the conversations were between you at
that time?
Mrs. HALL. Well, it was about church again. John said, "if you want, we
will take you." Not much at all. We didn't stay very long.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was any--was there any further conversation about
Oswald's job or desire to go back to Russia that you can remember?
Mrs. HALL. Well, about job. While John and Lee were talking, Marina
told, "Did he tell you?" And I said, "Tell me what?" She said that he
lost his job. And I said, "No, he didn't tell me." She said, "One of
those things." "He never tells anybody about himself." And then I found
out he lost his job. He is not working any more. And I said, "What are
you doing all day long?" And her face was rather, she had sunburn.
"Where did you get that sunburn?" "Well, all day we go fish." There was
a little bitty place on Elsbeth Street, and she said, "We just fish all
day and eat trout. Fish and eat."
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald was not working at that time?
Mrs. HALL. No; he wasn't working.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know where he worked in Dallas when he had a job?
Mrs. HALL. He was in kind of picture printing company, or I don't know,
printing pictures or something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, have you told us, to the best of your recollection,
all the conversation that occurred at that time?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was the last time you saw Lee Oswald, is that right?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You subsequently learned, however, that they had moved to
New Orleans, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL. I didn't know it. I heard it again that they moved.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember who told you that?
Mrs. HALL. I think Mrs. Max Clark.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you subsequently have a discussion with your husband
about the fact that the Oswald's had left for New Orleans?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; I think I mentioned to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what he said and what you said?
Mrs. HALL. No; I don't think we said anything.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what your husband told you when you
heard that Oswald had gone to New Orleans, that your husband, John,
thought that Oswald was on his way back to Russia, that he had gone to
New Orleans to take passage on a ship to Russia?
Mrs. HALL. I don't remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't have any recollection of that conversation?
Mrs. HALL. No; I don't. I heard all these things from Mrs. Clark,
because she is more in touch with the people here in Dallas. She comes
more often to Dallas to see George Bouhe, and we were not very much. We
don't see him very much, these Russian people.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever have any political conversations with Oswald?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you form an opinion as to Oswald's political views?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was that opinion?
Mrs. HALL. That he is a Communist and nobody can change him.
Mr. LIEBELER. You formed that opinion because of books and literature
that you had seen in his house and things that other people told you
about him?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. If the man went to Russia and came back, he should have
learned his lesson, I guess. When he came back, he should know that
here is a better place, but still he was thinking about Russia. And I
was raised in a very anti-Communist family.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you didn't have much sympathy with Oswald's attitude?
Mrs. HALL. No; none at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Marina ever tell you that she wanted to move to
Dallas because she heard there were English classes held at the YMCA?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did she tell you that?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I guess while she was living in my house; or no, it
was before that time. Well, George Bouhe told her that they had classes
here in Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever ask Marina whether she had gone to any of
these classes?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. The first time when I saw her at Christmas, I asked
her, and she said, "No; how can I go. He won't babysit at night, and I
have to take bus to go downtown." And she couldn't do it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know Jack Ruby or Jack Rubenstein?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know of any connection between Oswald and
Rubenstein or Ruby?
Mrs. HALL. No; I don't. In fact, at that time they never talked about
his mother, Marguerite Oswald, and I had the impression that Marina had
never met her, because she never mentioned to me. She told me that they
live in Oswald's brother's house for a week or so before they found
this apartment in Fort Worth.
Mr. LIEBELER. But Marina never mentioned Lee's mother to you at all?
Mrs. HALL. No. And I had that impression that she is not in Texas,
something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. You later learned from reading the newspaper that
Marguerite Oswald did live in Texas?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you never heard Lee Oswald mention his mother at any
time?
Mrs. HALL. No. He never would talk. He would just sit there and look,
or if he had something to read, he would read.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he read quite a bit?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; I think he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any way of forming an opinion as to what he
did with his time when he wasn't at work?
Mrs. HALL. He was lying on the floor or on the couch and reading.
Mr. LIEBELER. He didn't have any other outside activity that he had
other than his work?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned the fact that he had done some fishing at
the little pond in Dallas?
Mrs. HALL. That is when he didn't have any job.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know Mr. Alexander Kleinlerer?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. He was coming to my house while John and I were
divorced. That was all.
Mr. LIEBELER. What?
Mrs. HALL. I said, that was all he was coming, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Mr. Kleinlerer tell you that during the time that
you were in the hospital and subsequently when you were in New York,
that he came to the house to see how Marina was and how she was getting
along?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. He didn't tell me, but Mrs. Clark told me, because when
I came back from New York, John was in Fort Worth already, and we got
married after 2 days and I didn't see him any more. I didn't see this
Kleinlerer any more.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever seen him since then?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no discussions yourself with Kleinlerer about
what Marina was doing or who was at the house while you were gone?
Mrs. HALL. No. Mrs. Clark told me that sometime he would take Marina to
grocery store, and sometimes she would take her.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did you make arrangements to pay for these groceries
for Marina while you were in the hospital and you were in New York? Did
you give her money, or did you have a charge account at the grocery
store, or something like that? What was it?
Mrs. HALL. I didn't give her money that time.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did she get groceries during the time that you were
gone to New York and during the time that you were in the hospital, do
you know?
Mrs. HALL. I don't know. Maybe Mrs. Clark or Mr. Kleinlerer paid for
her.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you yourself did not pay for any of her groceries?
Mrs. HALL. No; I did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. But during the time that you and Marina both were living
at the house, you paid for the groceries, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did both you and Marina live in the house
together?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I guess 2 weeks.
Mr. LIEBELER. That you were actually together in the house?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. But I was working all the time. And in fact--that time
when she was in my house, sometimes I stayed for overtime. I worked
overtime at nights.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you doing work as a dental technician at that time?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. During the time that you knew the Oswalds and these
various meetings that you had with them, did you discuss with them the
reasons as to why Lee Oswald went to Russia in the first place?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever discuss with either one of them, or were you
present at a discussion where he told anybody what kind of a job he had
in Russia?
Mrs. HALL. He was working in some kind of factory, I think. I don't
remember, really. I never did talk about this with him.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't remember that he told you or anybody when you
were there, how much he was paid in the factory, do you?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I think 80 rubles, Russian rubles, I think. Well, I
don't know. I think she had 80 rubles. He had a little bit more.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was while Marina worked, too?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald say that he had any other source of income
when he was in Russia from any source other than his job?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever tell you, or did you ever hear that he
received help from the Red Cross while he was in the Soviet Union?
Mrs. HALL. No; I never heard of it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever mention any hunting trips that he had gone on
when he was in Russia?
Mrs. HALL. I don't know. He never did mention it to me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have no recollection of having heard him speak of
such a thing?
Mrs. HALL. No. I never spoke with him very much, because I think we
were allergic to each other. He didn't like me and I didn't like him at
all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see a gun of any kind in any of their
possessions? You said that you moved them?
Mrs. HALL. No; I did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never knew them to own a firearm of any type, is that
right?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Marina tell you anything about her youth in Russia,
where she lived and what kind of things she did?
Mrs. HALL. Not very much, really.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she tell you that she had been born in Leningrad?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; she told me she was living in Leningrad and then moved
to Minsk.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she tell you why she moved?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever hear from anybody else why she moved?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever discuss with the Oswalds the reason why they
returned to the United States?
Mrs. HALL. Well, because I think he changed his mind.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know any specific reasons that made him change his
mind?
Mrs. HALL. No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it seem strange to you that the Oswalds could leave
Russia and come back to the United States together like they did?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; it was kind of strange.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever discuss that with the Oswalds?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever discuss it with anybody else?
Mrs. HALL. Well, once when they came to Fort Worth, it was all over the
papers, you know, and like we Russians, we just want to know. I mean,
we read the paper, and Oswald tried to call a few people, and I called
Mrs. Clark, and she didn't know what to do, and we don't know.
Is it good or bad, really, for us to get in touch with them? So finally
John or George Bouhe got in touch with them, and I told Mrs. Clark and
all the Russians told probably, it is okay.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, did you ever have any discussion with these Russian
people as to the apparent ease with which Oswald was able to leave the
Soviet Union and come back?
Mrs. HALL. It wasn't very easy. I read in the paper that it took him
over a year. Well, he was a year, 1 year in Russia, he started asking
to come back and it took him almost 2 years, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is something you read in the paper after the
assassination, isn't that right?
Mrs. HALL. No; I think it was in the paper at that time.
Mr. LIEBELER. When they came back from Russia?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recall any conversations with any of your Russian
friends that you had, or anybody else, about this question of Oswald's
return to the United States and the fact that Marina was permitted to
leave Russia and come with him? I don't want you to remember anything
that didn't happen, but if you do have a recollection of it, I would
like to have it.
Mrs. HALL. Well, I think I talked with Mrs. Clark about that, and we
thought it strange how come they let Marina come, so that was all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever have any discussions with any of these
people before the assassination as to whether or not Oswald might be a
Russian agent?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it ever occur to you prior to the assassination that
Oswald might be a Russian agent?
Mrs. HALL. I really don't know. It is such a hard question. Only one
thing I could tell, that he was such a quiet and such a--I don't
know how to express myself--person, that I never thought he could do
something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Like shoot the President, you mean?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it ever occur to you prior to the time of the
assassination that he was dangerous or mentally unstable in any way,
did it?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you surprised when you heard that he had been
arrested in connection with the assassination?
Mrs. HALL. Very much so.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any conversations with your friends about it
then?
Mrs. HALL. In fact, when I was watching TV and I saw all the shooting,
after a few minutes Mrs. Clark called me and said, "Elena, did you
hear? Lee Oswald--Did you hear Lee Oswald's name?"
I said "No." She said, "I heard it on the radio, and I think it was Lee
Oswald's name."
And I couldn't believe it. After an hour or so, they told that it was
Lee Oswald, and everybody was very surprised.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say that most all of your friends in the Russian
group were very surprised that Oswald was involved in this?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever express within your hearing, or did you
ever hear him having expressed resentment against the U.S. Government
for any reason?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever express resentment that it had taken a long
time for him to come back to the United States after he decided to
return from Russia?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever hear him mention President Kennedy or talk
about President Kennedy in any way?
Mrs. HILL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. How about Governor Connally?
Mrs. HALL. No; never.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald ever mention Richard Nixon?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never heard of any displeasure that Oswald might have
had with Mr. Nixon?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about General Walker, did you ever hear any
discussion about him?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Think about it now. Do you think of anything now, Mrs.
Hall, that you can remember about the Oswalds about your relationship
with them, that you think the Commission should know about that I
haven't already asked you about? Can you think of anything that you
should add at this point?
Mrs. HALL. I wish I knew more.
Mr. LIEBELER. You think we pretty well covered everything?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; that is all, I think.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have no more questions at this point. Thank you very
much, Mrs. Hall.