The testimony of Elena A. Hall was taken at 5 p.m., on March 24, 1964,
in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan
and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant
counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Hall, would you please rise and raise your right
hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth in the testimony that you are about to give?
Mrs. HALL. I sure do.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Hall, my name is Wesley J. Liebeler. This is Albert
Jenner. We are both of the legal staff of the President's Commission
investigating the assassination of President Kennedy.
The Staff has been authorized to take testimony from you and from
other witnesses by the Commission pursuant to authority which has been
granted to the Commission by Executive Order 11130 dated November 29,
1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress 137.
It is my understanding that Mr. Rankin, general counsel of the
Commission sent you a letter last week and included copies of those two
documents, as well as a copy of the rules of procedure pertaining to
the taking of testimony. Did you receive that letter?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. With that letter were included copies of those documents
referred to, isn't that correct?
Mr. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. We want to question you today about your knowledge of
Lee and Marina Oswald, which knowledge you obtained as a result of
your association with them after they returned, after Oswald returned
from Russia sometime in 1962. I understand that your association with
Oswald continued over a period of time and that you last saw him at
approximately Easter of 1963?
Mrs. HALL. Yes, that is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. First of all, will you state your full name for the
record?
Mrs. HALL. Elena A. Hall.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is your address, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL. 4760 Trail Lake Drive.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Fort Worth, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Fort Worth.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are married to Mr. John R. Hall, isn't that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You and Mr. Hall operate a dental laboratory in Fort
Worth, isn't that right?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you born in Iran? In what town?
Mrs. HALL. Tehran.
Mr. LIEBELER. When were you born?
Mrs. HALL. 1926.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is the Commission's understanding that your parents
were originally from Russia, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did they move to Tehran?
Mrs. HALL. 1920 or 1921.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where in Russia had they lived prior to that time?
Mrs. HALL. The last in Baku.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us briefly the reasons that prompted your
parents to leave Russia and go to Tehran?
Mrs. HALL. The Communists. When the Communists started in, my father
was over in the Russian Army in Siberia. He was a prisoner, and after
he got out, he escaped, they came back. I mean they came to Iran.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did they eventually move to the United States?
Mrs. HALL. No; my mother was here in 1960, but she came just to visit
and went back.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are they still living in Tehran?
Mrs. HALL. No; both are dead.
Mr. LIEBELER. Both are dead?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us the circumstances surrounding your moving to the
United States, if you would.
Mrs. HALL. Well, I worked for 10 years. I worked for dentists, and I
knew a little bit of laboratory work. Then I decided to continue and
have some kind of diploma, and that is why I came to the United States.
My best friends, they were coming to the United States. So they told me
that there are some technology schools here in the United States that I
can go and accomplish my dental technology, and that is why I came to
New York and was in the dental technology school where I met John. So
he wanted--instead of going back, I married him and came to Texas.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you move to the United States, Mrs. Hall?
Mrs. HALL. 1957.
Mr. LIEBELER. 1957?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us briefly what your educational
background was in Tehran before you moved to the United States?
Mrs. HALL. High-school education. I was 6 years in French school and 5
years in Russian school.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you specialize in any special field during your
education?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. It was just a general education?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. After you married your husband in New York and
subsequently moved to Dallas, or Fort Worth----
Mrs. HALL. We were married in Fort Worth and I came here.
Mr. LIEBELER. During your husband's testimony, he said that you were
first married in 19----
Mrs. HALL. 1959.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were subsequently divorced and then remarried again
in November of 1962, is that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you eventually meet Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife
Marina Oswald?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us in your own words and to the best of
your recollection when you first met them, and the circumstances. Go
right ahead and tell your own story of your acquaintance with the
Oswalds right up until the last time you saw them. I will interrupt you
as little as possible.
Mrs. HALL. Well, I was working for Patterson Porcelain Laboratory at
that time when I met Oswald. Mrs. George Bouhe brought them to our
house. At that time I was by myself. John wasn't there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you and your husband divorced at that time?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; we were. George Bouhe, that is, thought that I could do
something for Marina because she had a missing tooth, and I told him
that I will try. Then I asked a couple of doctors and they couldn't do
with that little money that George Bouhe offered. He offered $50 to
$75, and said, "I will pay for it," but it was much more than that,
so I could do nothing. And that was the first time I met him. It was
sometime in July, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER. Of 1962?
Mrs. HALL. In July of 1962. After that I saw her, how poor they were.
They really didn't have anything. She didn't have any clothes. So I
told my friends, married friends, couple of them. They gave the money.
And I asked another lady who gave me a lot of clothes for her. And in
this way I start to learn sometimes--give her some money or buy her
some clothes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you give Marina money from time to time?
Mrs. HALL. No; I didn't give her money. I bought clothes for her.
George Bouhe gave them money and other people. I bought her clothes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who gave you money besides Mr. Bouhe?
Mrs. HALL. Mrs. Patterson, the lady that I worked for. I mean my
employer's wife.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is her first name?
Mrs. HALL. Loraine Patterson.
Mr. LIEBELER. How much money did she give you, do you remember?
Mrs. HALL. I don't remember. It was $10, or $15.
Mr. LIEBELER. How much did Bouhe give you?
Mrs. HALL. Twenty dollars.
Mr. LIEBELER. You received that money to buy groceries for Marina, is
that correct?
Mrs. HALL. No; it was only for her clothes while they were living in
Fort Worth, and I mean not in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did anybody else give you any money for the Oswalds?
Mrs. HALL. No; I spent myself, too.
Mr. LIEBELER. For them?
Mrs. HALL. For them, yes. I didn't buy groceries there at that time. I
bought little toys for the little girl, but I never did buy groceries
until they moved to my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you estimate approximately how much money altogether
you have spent for Marina's clothes, and such items as that before they
moved out of the apartment in Fort Worth?
Mrs. HALL. My money or just general?
Mr. LIEBELER. Altogether. You said that you thought Bouhe had given you
$20?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And Mrs. Patterson, $10 or $15, so that would have been
$30 or $35?
Mrs. HALL. I spent probably $25 or $30 myself.
Mr. LIEBELER. So it would be $50 to $60?
Mrs. HALL. Something like that, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Go ahead with your story.
Mrs. HALL. Well, I was going to see her sometime in the lunchtime
because it was very close to my work. They lived not very far from my
work. And then after they--I think he lost his job in Fort Worth and he
decided that there is better opportunity here in Dallas, to move.
And they couldn't, of course, afford it to move and bring her here with
the child, not having a job and apartment, so I suggested, "Why don't
you move to my house while he is in Dallas until he finds a job, and
then you can move?" So that's what they did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Marina moved to your house while Oswald was in Dallas
looking for a job?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us approximately when Marina moved to your
house?
Mrs. HALL. It was in the first week in October. I don't know exactly
when it was, but it was the first week in October, sometime.
Mr. LIEBELER. I understand that you helped Marina move from the
apartment in Fort Worth to your house in a pickup truck that you
borrowed?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; Patterson had a pickup truck.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did anybody else help you, or just you and Marina did the
moving?
Mrs. HALL. Lee still was there, so when we moved, he went to Dallas
that night, that afternoon.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there anybody besides you and Marina and Lee that
helped you with the moving?
Mrs. HALL. No; nobody else. They didn't have nothing.
Mr. LIEBELER. There wasn't very much to move?
Mrs. HALL. No; the baby was sleeping in a suitcase. And then the first
time when George went----
Mr. LIEBELER. George Bouhe?
Mrs. HALL. He saw this situation. He bought a little bed for the child
and a couple of other things. He helped them very much. He was very
nice about that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald seem to appreciate what Mr. Bouhe was doing
for him?
Mrs. HALL. I don't think so. He didn't appreciate nothing, never. In
fact, when she moved to my house one weekend on Saturday, I don't
remember when, George Bouhe came and he brought a big carton of all
kinds of groceries and vitamins for the baby and everything, so Lee
came and he asked Marina, "Who brought all these groceries?" And he saw
in the kitchen----
Mr. LIEBELER. This was while Marina was living at your house?
Mrs. HALL. While she was, yes. And said, "George Bouhe has bought," and
he was real mad at him. He said, "You are living in her house, you are
not living in his house. Why he brings groceries?" He was just strange
man, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER. During the time that Marina lived at your house, did you
purchase all the groceries and similar items for Marina and the child
except for what Mr. Bouhe brought?
Mrs. HALL. Well, nobody else would do it. She was living in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald made no contributions whatsoever for the support
of the family at that time?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he offer to contribute?
Mrs. HALL. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us about how long Marina lived in your house?
Mrs. HALL. Well, she lived, I said in the first week in October they
moved, she moved there. And then I had an accident in the middle of
October and I stayed in the hospital 10 days. When I got out from the
hospital, I think it was in the end of October, after my accident, I
stayed home, I think, 3 or 4 days.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was Marina there at that time?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; she was there. Then I went to New York on the 31st of
October. I went to New York, and when I came back on the 15th, they
were gone.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know exactly when they moved out?
Mrs. HALL. No, no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Oswald lived in your house with
Marina at any time that you were gone to New York or in the hospital?
Mrs. HALL. That--not that I know. I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever discuss that with Marina?
Mrs. HALL. I saw her after that time. I saw her only on Christmas one
day and Easter, and it was real short visit, so we didn't talk about
the past.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know where Oswald lived at first when he moved to
Dallas from Fort Worth?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I heard that he lived in YMCA.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who told you that?
Mrs. HALL. I heard from two friends.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember who particularly told you?
Mrs. HALL. Yes, Mrs. Clark.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mrs. Max Clark?
Mrs. HALL. Yes. And I think George Bouhe told me, or at least George
Bouhe suggested him to stay in YMCA.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know of any other place that Oswald might have
lived when he first went to Dallas other than the YMCA?
Mrs. HALL. No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you then visit the Oswald's apartment on Elsbeth at
any time in Dallas?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; one time we went. First time on Christmas Day. She
borrowed my sewing machine, and on the first day of Christmas I bought
a little toy for the baby and we went to visit them and I thought I
bring my sewing machine but she said she wasn't finished with the
sewing machine. So we went the first day of Easter again. John's
parents lived in Dallas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your husband?
Mrs. HALL. Mother and father, they live here. And we went the second
time and I brought the sewing machine. That was only twice I saw them
after they moved from my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know whether or not Marina used the sewing
machine?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see her using it?
Mrs. HALL. No; I didn't see her using it, but after that when I brought
it, I opened it and saw all this, she had probable difficulty with
the stitches, and there is pieces of something in there, and she just
sewing on it, and I just closed it and I never did touch it again.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see any clothes that Marina made with the sewing
machine?
Mrs. HALL. She didn't make any clothes. But the clothes that friends
of mine gave to her, lots of clothes, she was trying to alter them and
things like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Marina know how to use the sewing machine?
Mrs. HALL. Yes; I think. She told me she could. I never did see her
sewing, but she said she could.
Mr. LIEBELER. About the time that Marina lived in your house, did you
understand that the Oswalds were having any marital difficulties?
Mrs. HALL. Well, I think she was stubborn, and he was just cruel to
her, and they would argue for nothing, just nothing. And he would beat
her all the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Beat her?
Mrs. HALL. Oh, yes. In fact, first time when she came to my house with
George Bouhe, she had black and blue over half of her face and I didn't
ask at that time, but after she moved in my house, I said, Marina,
what was on your face? And she told me that he beat her.
Mr. LIEBELER. The first time that Marina came to your house, can you
remember exactly when that was?
Mrs. HALL. In July. Sometime in July.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you noticed even in July that she had been bruised,
is that correct?
Mrs. HALL. Yes.