"Well," she said, "let's try".
Now the young Gregory who is taking Russian lessons at the University
of Oklahoma in Norman, who was spending a couple of weeks at home
from his studies of Russian, I know he went to Marina to pick up some
Russian lessons from her, and in exchange gave her a few pointers in
English, but he was leaving for the university so I know that that
system was to be short-lived.
Therefore I offered Marina on my own volition without being asked for
it, an excellent dictionary published by the U.S. Government Printing
Office in Washington during World War II as a guide for officers and
generals in communicating with the Russians, and was prepared, as I
understand, by the elite of the Russian emigre academic world in the
American society.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you give this to Marina and attempt to teach her the
English language?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes. But how I say to read and study, you have to have
perseverance. "Let me try something", I said, and so on this paper
I would write in Russian lesson number one and start writing in big
letters in Russian simple sentences, "My name is Marina Oswald. I
live in Fort Worth. We buy groceries on Tuesday. My husband works on
Wednesday. This is a tropical climate."
Mr. LIEBELER. You sent those to Marina and asked her to study them?
Mr. BOUHE. With a line space in between and asked her to look at the
dictionary, but don't ask anybody, and put underneath in English, which
she did faithfully for approximately 4 weeks, maybe 5.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us approximately when this was? They were
living in Fort Worth at that time?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes; I would say that was the last 3 weeks in September, and
maybe the beginning of October which is when she moved to Mrs. Hall's.
I would say it was sometime between September 12 and October 20.
Mr. LIEBELER. After about four of these lessons she stopped doing it,
is that right?
Mr. BOUHE. The fifth or sixth lesson did not return. Now just a moment,
she would write the English words. She would send it all back to me and
I would correct it and in turn send it back to her, so she will see
what it should have been.
And incidentally, I was shown that by an FBI agent 10 days ago, because
a Russian speaking FBI agent came to see me for 5 minutes. He said,
"Please take a yellow pad and write 'My name is Marina Oswald. We live
in Fort Worth.'"
Mr. LIEBELER. He had those lessons that you had sent to Marina?
Mr. BOUHE. I don't know what he had. All I could hear was my own words,
because I have a way of speaking myself. He just showed me a photostat
of one of my pages. This was it. And she made progress.
Mr. LIEBELER. She seemed to be a good student of English; is that
correct?
Mr. BOUHE. The first four or five lessons, for two or three pages each.
She made a good headway.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she ever come to your house to study Russian?
Mr. BOUHE. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know if she ever went to visit with Mr. Gregory to
study English?
Mr. BOUHE. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. In my previous question I meant English, to study at your
house?
Mr. BOUHE. Now Marina was in my house with Lee Harvey Oswald and the
baby when I met them at the bus station on or about September 9, 1962.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was the only time they were in your house?
Mr. BOUHE. Precisely. I took them from the bus to my house, changed the
diaper----
Mr. LIEBELER. Marina was never in your house in the absence of Lee
Oswald?
Mr. BOUHE. Never. And I never was, to the best of my recollection, and
made a point of it never to be in Marina's house without somebody else
being there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now can you tell us why you took such care in that
regard? Why did you make sure that you never went to visit Marina
Oswald?
Mr. BOUHE. Because he was a peculiar guy, and I am not a fighter. I am
an expert fighter with the word, but not with the muscles. And by his
smirking appearances or other expressions on the face, indicated that
I am not welcome and I am persona non grata, because apparently he was
jealous that I filled the icebox once, and when she said that somebody
else bought groceries, he said, "Who did that?" "Why I gave you $2 last
week; $2 you got."
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Oswald was ever jealous of the
attention that any other gentlemen in the Russian group might have
given to Marina?
Mr. BOUHE. I did not see.
Mr. LIEBELER. You do not know about that?
Mr. BOUHE. I did not see, observe, suspect, or hear, because probably I
showed undivided, what I might call, interest in the family as a whole.
Mr. LIEBELER. So as far as you know, Oswald never was really jealous of
any of your friends or your attention to Marina in any romantic way?
Mr. BOUHE. I don't know, and he certainly didn't tell me anything about
it.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you never heard it from anybody else?
Mr. BOUHE. I did not hear, and I am 60.
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; I am not only meaning you, Mr. Bouhe, I mean anyone
else in the group. You never heard any stories to that effect?
Mr. BOUHE. But I did think maybe Marina slipped, after the second beer,
"Well, Lee is jealous of you."
Mr. LIEBELER. She said that about you?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes; because I bought groceries.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know why Marina stopped studying English at the
end of the fourth lesson?
Mr. BOUHE. Sir, I wish I knew.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know the answer to that question?
Mr. BOUHE. Just a moment. I do not know the answer to that question.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you surprised when you heard that Oswald had been
charged with the assassination of the President?
Mr. BOUHE. You can say that again.
Mr. LIEBELER. Why were you surprised?
Mr. BOUHE. Because I happened to know the guy.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you think that Oswald was capable of doing such a
thing?
Mr. BOUHE. Never up to that moment. Did not enter my mind.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did not appear to you to be a dangerous person in that
respect?
Mr. BOUHE. He appeared to be critical of the United States, an
individual completely mixed-up, looking, somebody said, for his place
under the sun. But I did not go into the thinking like the psychiatrist
thought in the Bronx in 1952, that he is potentially dangerous, and to
whom now this act was almost a natural for his condition.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did not appear to you prior to the assassination that
he was dangerous in any respect?
Mr. BOUHE. He liked to get into a fight, I heard and get beaten up, I
heard, off and on, and he struck his wife, gave her a black eye. Yes;
he is a tough guy but----
Mr. LIEBELER. As far as assassinating the President or shooting
somebody, that's never occurred to you?
Mr. BOUHE. Never.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know of any connection between Lee Oswald and Jack
Ruby?
Mr. BOUHE. Thought of it a lot, and I can unqualifiably say, I could
not come to any thought that would make me say yes on that, that I
suspect yes--no, no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now you testified before that you knew George De
Mohrenschildt?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. De Mohrenschildt was a friend of Oswald's; was he not?
Mr. BOUHE. Mr. De Mohrenschildt is a Ph. D., comes from an excellent
family back in the old country, married the right people, knows
everybody, but there is something in him that we have discussed here
with Mr. Gregory in a nice sort of way, a nonconformist, meaning if you
invited him to dinner, formally, he might arrive there in a bathing
suit and bring a girl friend which is not accepted.
When I talked to De Mohrenschildt, who met Oswald somewhere in October
or November, whether at Meller's or Mrs. Ford's, I told him, "George, I
just cannot go on, he is nuts and we are going to have trouble."
By trouble, I meant constant arguments, battling, moving out and all of
that sort of stuff.
George, who liked him, said, "Oh, come on, you are too critical, you
are too big a snob. Just because he didn't come from St. Petersburg,
then you drop them like a hot cake. They are nice people."
"All right, George, you carry the ball."
Mr. LIEBELER. You said that to De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes; and then on various weekends he would take him to his
society friends, swimming pools, and this and that just like a little
hoopla circus.
So they went through the crowds and maybe they brought them over one
day. If I ran into them at De Mohrenschildt's house once in that
period, that is almost an exaggeration.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you say you know De Mohrenschildt did go on and
attempt to help the Oswalds in the manner that you have described?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any idea whether De Mohrenschildt exercised
any particular influence over Oswald?
Mr. BOUHE. I think Oswald had respect for the size and the weight and
the muscles of De Mohrenschildt because on some occasions if he went to
tell something to Oswald, like he had to change a shirt on Wednesday,
or not to be dirty, or do something on Sunday, he wouldn't care--De
Mohrenschildt would give it to him, tell him, and holler at him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald would do that?
Mr. BOUHE. I don't know whether he did it, but De Mohrenschildt would
say it. Whether that registered or not, that I don't know. I wouldn't
even say it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Bouhe, I want to show you five photographs of a man,
and these photographs have all been marked in the testimony that Mrs.
Ruth Paine gave before the Commission. We do not have the numbers here.
I will ask you if you recognize this man or these men. [Commission
Exhibits 451, 453-456, WJL.]
First of all, does it appear to you that they are all pictures of the
same man?
Mr. BOUHE. If I saw him, it must be in my dreams. I don't remember
seeing that man.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you observe any resemblance between these pictures and
Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. BOUHE. I would say no. Am I wrong?
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have anything else now, Mr. Bouhe, that you think
that we should know in connection with this matter before we terminate.
I have no more questions that I want to ask, do you have anything else
that you think we ought to know before we finish?
Let me ask you one more question. Did Oswald drink, as far as you know?
Mr. BOUHE. Drink?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. BOUHE. He took one vodka in my house, and he probably took a couple
of drinks at Katya Ford's house. I think that I saw him with a glass,
but do not know if it was ginger ale.
Mr. LIEBELER. He was not a strong drinker?
Mr. BOUHE. Never saw or heard or smelled.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have anything else that you want to call to our
attention that you think would help us in this matter?
Let me say this, we are going to be here in Dallas for the next 2 or 3
days. Why don't you think over your testimony, and if you have anything
else that you want to tell us that you think we should know, you get in
touch with us, and we will make arrangements to talk to you about it at
that time.
Mr. BOUHE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is there anything that occurs to you now?
Mr. BOUHE. I cannot think of anything.
Mr. LIEBELER. If you think of it in the next 2 days, you call the U.S.
attorney's office and we will make arrangements.
Mr. BOUHE. Is that Mr. Sanders?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. BOUHE. I talked incessantly today.
Mr. LIEBELER. In view of the fact that Mr. Bouhe has nothing that he
can think of at this point and in view of the fact that I have no
further questions, I would like to terminate the examination at this
time with the final question of you, Mr. Bouhe, as to whether there is
anything we have talked about here that has not been taken down by the
court reporter, that we have not subsequently put on the record for
the benefit of the record that you think ought to be on the record? In
other words, in our conversation here today we have discussed a couple
of matters off the record, and I ask you now, isn't it a fact that
everything we discussed off the record we subsequently discussed while
the reporter was writing?
Mr. BOUHE. Absolutely; after the clarification was obtained. But I must
say I am a quick thinking man and fast talking, but at this moment I
cannot think of anything. But as usual, I will go out and lie down and
will think of something, so don't hold it against me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You will think of something that we have not discussed?
Mr. BOUHE. Because I have seen 11 FBI agents and 3 from the Secret
Service, of which 2 were speaking Russian, or were natives of Russia,
and I--by the way, where do I go out? Will the name unfortunately
appear in the paper?
Mr. LIEBELER. No; not as far as we know. You don't want any publicity?
Mr. BOUHE. I tell you, I certainly don't want any publicity. Too, I am
fearful, because you probably heard about this--is this on the record?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; go ahead.
Mr. BOUHE. This is Dallas, and you know there is a lot of shootings
going on, and as I read in the paper at the time Oswald was being
captured at the Texas Theatre, some mob was assembling and they were
holding him out there, and screaming, "Kill the Republicans," and you
can see the----
Mr. LIEBELER. We will see to it that your name is not mentioned in
connection with the affair. At this point I think we can terminate.