Mr. BOUHE. Wait a second, maybe I did ask and, well, he said it was
some photographic process in the lithographic business, but I don't
know what that means.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know where Oswald lived when he moved to Dallas?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where?
Mr. BOUHE. YMCA on Ervay Street.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know how long he lived there?
Mr. BOUHE. I certainly would be willing to bet that he lived there from
about October the 7th or 8th, I am sorry, about October 8, which is a
Monday, until about October 18. But that latter figure I do not know
myself except from an FBI agent who told me he checked out on the 18th,
but that I do know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know where he moved when he checked out of the
YMCA?
Mr. BOUHE. At some point thereabouts he threw at me when I asked,
"Where do you live now?" He gave me, if I recall correctly, a name of
the Carlton boarding house on Madison Avenue, but it proved to be wrong.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you tell the FBI that he told you he lived at the
Carlton boarding house?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. The FBI checked it out and told you subsequently that he
had not lived there?
Mr. BOUHE. That's correct. The FBI men went there, and it developed
that Oswald told me a lie to send me on a wild goose chase, but the
name strikes me somehow; and FBI rechecked this place and said it was a
bum steer.
Mr. LIEBELER. As far as you know, the next place that Oswald lived
after he moved out of the YMCA was in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas?
Mr. BOUHE. Madison is around the corner from somewhere he ultimately
lived.
Mr. LIEBELER. He ultimately lived at 604 Elsbeth?
Mr. BOUHE. And on my card I have a date of November the 2d, 1962, that
he found this apartment and moved there, but that I heard from others
because by that time I lost all communication with them; didn't talk to
him; didn't ask him anything, and he didn't call me.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have been in November 1962, would it not, Mr.
Bouhe, that he moved to the apartment you are speaking of?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes; and I would say that is pretty good because I think the
FBI agent told me they proved that, or something.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever visit the Oswald apartment at Elsbeth Street?
Mr. BOUHE. I never did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever visit their apartment at No. 215 Neely
Street?
Mr. BOUHE. Never even knew where it was. Never did.
Mr. LIEBELER. At any time after November 1 and prior to December 28,
1962, did you see or talk to Oswald? December 28 is the date of the
Ford party.
Mr. BOUHE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. From November 1 to December 28?
Mr. BOUHE. I would say that by some unanticipated chance I might have
run into him and her or both at the De Mohrenschildt's, but I wouldn't
swear. Let me add that certainly no communication was maintained on my
part.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see Marina during that period of time, however?
Mr. BOUHE. Once or twice.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have already testified that you moved her from Anna
Meller's to the Ford's house, and that would have been in November of
1962, would it not?
Mr. BOUHE. Oh, yes; that is right. That is right.
Then maybe I said something that I shouldn't have said. In November I
told they moved to Elsbeth. Then a week later she ran to Anna Meller.
Mr. LIEBELER. You previously testified that you thought that Marina had
lived with the Ford's during October, but now it is a fact, is it not,
that when Marina moved to the Fords and when she moved to stay with
Anna Meller, she moved from the apartment in Oak Cliff, did she not?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. It must have been November because your recollection is
she didn't move to the Oak Cliff area until November, is that right?
Mr. BOUHE. Yes. That is a slip of the tongue.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see Marina during the month of November 1962?
Mr. BOUHE. I don't remember seeing her during that period of time
except in moving her from Mellers to Fords. If I ran into him or her
once at the De Mohrenschildt's, that is the maximum.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't see him at anytime when you saw Marina when
she was moving from the Mellers to the Fords?
Mr. BOUHE. Oh, no.
Mr. LIEBELER. He wasn't around at that time?
Mr. BOUHE. No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. A few minutes ago I asked you about your judgment of
Marina Oswald's character and we had an off-the-record discussion.
Would you repeat for us that discussion, the statement you made off the
record at that time, and recapitulate for us your thoughts on Marina
Oswald.
Mr. BOUHE. I think she is a well brought up girl. By that I mean, from
my calculation, that she had received a good care from some old person
of the old regime. Religious, well mannered, and such.
She liked glitter, fun, maybe, just like any young pretty girl of that
age would, probably, but I think she was also a driver and ambitious
about it. Even by looking at her, I would say that in the small size
you would not think she would.
And it seems to me that she followed that line by meeting Oswald,
coaxing him to come to America, and so as, she told me herself, she
could write a postal card to her old girl friends "watch me sail to
America."
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned in your off-the-record discussion that
you had thought to yourself isn't it possible that Marina is a great
actress.
Mr. BOUHE. There again she acts so natural that I was disarmed. But at
this stage of the game, maybe I was a fool.
Mr. LIEBELER. Why do you say that, Mr. Bouhe?
Mr. BOUHE. Maybe she is a superagent of some organization.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any reason to think that prior to the time
of the assassination?
Mr. BOUHE. Certainly not. Never entered into my head.
Mr. LIEBELER. But it has entered into your head since the
assassination, is that correct?
Mr. BOUHE. Well, after that, you think of anything.
Mr. LIEBELER. But there was nothing about Marina's behavior as you
observed it prior to the assassination that led you to think that?
Mr. BOUHE. Positively nothing. But we did in the Russian colony have
conversations. We were repeatedly amazed at the ease with which Marina
left the U.S.S.R., which we, who know the setup on the other side, is
almost incredible.
American, British, and other diplomats married Russian girls and it
took them years to get their wives out. And at one moment I did ask, I
think, both of them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Asked who?
Mr. BOUHE. Both of them Lee and Marina. "Well, it is certainly unusual
that they let you out. How did you do it?"
It was a completely innocent question at that time.
"Well, we just went to the right office."
And they in the office said, "All right, take it away," or something to
that effect in Russian.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now did you have any discussions with other friends of
yours here in Dallas as to whether or not Oswald was possibly an agent
of the U.S.S.R.? And I want you to confine your answer to the time
prior to the assassination.
Mr. BOUHE. The majority of our Russian background colony having
suffered very much under the Soviet and Hitler rule, even after 10
and 12 or more years of good peace and comparative prosperity in this
country, are still constantly on the suspicion of anything that comes
from Russia.
Many of them shook heads, saying, well, I don't know, maybe he is a
Soviet spy. At least I came to a conclusion, right or wrong, that the
man came to the American Embassy in Moscow asking for the permit to
return to his native land. It took 2 years of something to process that
application. To me, these 2 years meant that probably it is not only
paperwork between the Moscow Embassy and Russia, but probably some
investigation.
Therefore, I felt that whatever investigating agency of the United
States, whether it is Secret Service, CIA, or anybody else concerned
with repatriation with such a suspicious character, took their good
little time of 2 years to process his return back to the United States.
That processed his right to bring his wife and also gave them 400 some
odd dollars to come here because they didn't have any money.
At this point I want to state that when Mr. Gregory invited me to
dinner the first time, I checked with Mr. Max Clark as an attorney
friend to the effect that is this a sort of a cloudy deal, and I am
sticking my neck out in my meeting the person? And after a couple of
days, I don't remember exactly Mr. Clark's answer, but there were words
to the effect that since he was processed through the proper channels,
apparently there is nothing wrong, but you have to be careful. I think
these were the words. Then I accepted the invitation for dinner.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now did other members of the Russian colony express to
you the thought that Oswald might have been a Russian agent?
Mr. BOUHE. I would say, based on pure emotions and bred-in suspicions,
yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell me who expressed those thoughts to you?
Mr. BOUHE. Well, I don't know who said that, but I really don't
remember who said that, because there was so much talk. But probably it
was mentioned.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't remember specifically who mentioned it?
Mr. BOUHE. I wish I knew, and if I think, I will tell you, but I don't.
And I am not hiding anything.
Mr. LIEBELER. You attended a party at the home of Mr. and Mrs. Declan
P. Ford on December 28, 1962, did you not? And Mr. and Mrs. Oswald were
there, were they not?
Mr. BOUHE. Right; uninvited.
Mr. LIEBELER. De Mohrenschildt was there, was he not, and his wife?
Mr. BOUHE. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was there any discussion at that party on the question of
whether or not Oswald was or could be a Russian agent?
Mr. BOUHE. That party is very vivid in my memory. All of a sudden
toward late in the evening appeared George De Mohrenschildt and his
wife, accompanied by Oswald and Marina. I could almost hear a gasp
among some of the people who were around me. I can almost for certain
say that during that evening until the De Mohrenschildt's took him back
home, if I got a human hello from Oswald, that was the extent of my
conversation, and I exchanged maybe half a dozen words with Marina who
said, "Nice to see you again." I would say that would be the extent of
that conversation.
At that party we were especially astounded that after having a couple
of drinks and without seeing Oswald talk extensively to anybody except
maybe circulate from one to another, he spotted a Japanese girl. And if
I recall correctly, any time I would look any place, he was with her.
Marina circulated a little bit, ate very heartily, and everybody, so
to speak, commented that such a little girl had so many helpings,
apparently she didn't have very many good things to eat before.
Then toward midnight there was a little singing with a guitar, you
know, Russians like to sing, piano and guitar, three or four voices.
Oswald, I remember, looked from the doorway, did not come. Marina came
finally feeling better, came and stood around for a moment or two.
"Nice it is here," she said, and that was the end.
Mr. LIEBELER. After the Oswalds left, did any of the people at the
party discuss the question of whether or not Oswald might have been an
agent of the U.S.S.R.?
Mr. BOUHE. No, sir; but I do know that one or two men with whom Oswald
spoke, or at least one man, got up in a hurry, and I heard him say
clearly, "My God, what an idiot that is."
Mr. LIEBELER. Who was that man?
Mr. BOUHE. Lev Aronson, chief first cello, Dallas Symphony Orchestra.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Mr. Aronson speak to Oswald? Is that why he thought
Oswald was an idiot?
Mr. BOUHE. I am not a buddy-buddy of his.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you didn't hear why Aronson thought Oswald was an
idiot?
Mr. BOUHE. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. After the party at the Fords, there was a get-together at
the Mellers residence sometime before that weekend. Were you present at
that party?
Mr. BOUHE. Not with Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. I didn't say Oswald was there. But there was a group of
people who got together at the Mellers either the next day or the day
after?
Mr. BOUHE. I do not recall that. But they are my close friends of a
long time and I am almost sure I must have been there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember any discussion at that party about the
question of whether or not Oswald might be a Russian agent?
Mr. BOUHE. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. There was also an open-house at your own apartment during
that period of time, was there not?
Mr. BOUHE. I think there were occasional parties. No discussions about
Oswald being a Russian agent.
Mr. LIEBELER. At any time during the period December 28 for the next
few days?
Mr. BOUHE. To the best of my recollection, as far as I am concerned,
well, whether others talked, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you didn't hear anybody talking about it?
Mr. BOUHE. Not to my hearing.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember saying that Oswald was essentially a
mental case?
Mr. BOUHE. Well, in the words of Mr. Aronson, I would say that mental
case, that means he is crazy. That is what I meant.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember using those words at any time during the
period December 28 and the few days following that day?
Mr. BOUHE. That I do not remember, but there is a good Russian word
when you act crazy, we say, "My God, you are crazy." But that I do not
remember.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember suggesting to Oswald that he attend some
school and study to attempt to improve his ability?
Mr. BOUHE. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. When was that?
Mr. BOUHE. That was most probably the first week of October when he
moved here, October 1962.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what he said to you in response?