Mr. LIEBELER. That's good enough; that's just fine, and you are a
native-born American, Mr. Clark?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Born here in Texas?
Mr. CLARK. No, I was born in Indiana.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you move to Texas, approximately?
Mr. CLARK. In 1927.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you state for us briefly your educational
background?
Mr. CLARK. Well, I attended public high schools in Fort Worth,
graduated and went to T.C.U., University of Texas, 1 year in the
University of Arizona and received my law degree at the University of
Texas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your wife, I understand, was born in France and her
parents were born in Russia, is that correct?
Mr. CLARK. My wife was born in France; her father is Russian and her
mother is English and Russian. I know her father was born in Russia
but I am not certain whether her mother was born in Russia or England
because they alternated back and forth so I really don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does your wife speak Russian?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did there come a time when you made the acquaintance of
Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife, Marina Oswald?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us in your words the background leading up
to that; how it happened, the circumstances leading up to when you met
him, approximately when?
Mr. CLARK. We first became aware of Oswald when we noticed in the
newspaper in Fort Worth that Lee Oswald, a defector, had returned to
Fort Worth with this Russian wife and very shortly after, I noticed
it in the paper, possibly the same week, my wife received a phone
call from Oswald stating that he was there and he understood she
spoke Russian and her name had been given to him as a person speaking
Russian from someone from the Texas Employment Commission and she
said well, that that was true, that she had spoke some Russian and I
was at my office and we would either call--or we would call him that
weekend so she discussed it with me when I came home and on a Sunday
following that, why, I told her "Well, might as well call if the girl
spoke Russian and hadn't been able to communicate" she might as well
call her; and so she placed the call to Oswald's brother, I believe
is where they were staying the newspaper said, and talked with Oswald
and suggested if he wanted to, he and his wife could drive over to our
house that afternoon and he stated to her that it was not convenient
for him, so we felt, well, we made the offer so that's it; so we paid
no further attention to him or did not make any further attempt.
Mr. LIEBELER. This first attempt of Oswald's to contact your wife did
he tell you what motivated him; was it purely a social matter?
Mr. CLARK. Purely social; his wife could not speak English and she
would like to talk to some girl that spoke Russian so we made the
offer. We were not about to go out to his house where he was living.
If he wanted to see us he could come over there. We felt we had done
enough. Shortly after that my wife's mother was having an operation in
France so it had been planned that she would go over there during this
operation, so my wife left in July, I believe, or first of August. I
have forgotten, of 1962 and was gone 7 weeks or something like that.
When she returned to Fort Worth in September or the latter part of
September, the Russian group which she keeps rather close contact
with--there is not such a large number between Dallas and Fort Worth
that they communicate quite freely back and forth--stated that they had
met this Marina Oswald and that she was having an extremely hard time
and so several of them came over from Fort Worth, I mean from Dallas to
Fort Worth and asked my wife to meet them at Oswald's house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who is this?
Mr. CLARK. I think it was George Bouhe and Anna Meller and I've
forgotten but I wasn't present, I don't know, but this is what my wife
was telling me, so she arranged to meet them at this apartment that
the Oswalds were living in one afternoon and she told me that she met
this Marina and she looked like a little child and had this baby and
she talked with her and Oswald was apparently working because she did
not see him and then we had no further contact with them or even knew
about them until Oswald apparently quit his job or was fired and this
Marina and the baby which was quite young at the time went to live
with a friend of ours, Elena Hall who at that time was divorced and
was living by herself and she volunteered or asked this Marina and the
child to live with her awhile. Apparently, Oswald left the city and
went to Dallas to look for a job or whether they were separated I don't
know because we had heard stories that Oswald had beat her and that it
was not going very well, their marriage, and so----
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when was it that Marina moved in with Elena
Hall; do you remember?
Mr. CLARK. Some time in October of 1962; the exact date I don't know.
I know that she had been over there a few days when Elena Hall had an
automobile wreck late one night. We received a phone call from the
hospital to pick up this Marina and the baby and take them to the
hospital because Elena was under the impression that she had killed the
baby or Marina in the car wreck. She thought that they were involved.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were they in the car at all?
Mr. CLARK. No; they were not in the car but she was injured pretty
badly, apparently, during this car wreck. So, we went by to this Elena
Hall's house about 10 that night, picking up Marina and the baby and
took her to the hospital and then, of course, she had been given
sedatives and--Elena Hall--and I don't know whether she knew any more
about it. I did not see her that night.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Marina see Elena Hall that night?
Mr. CLARK. I think so but I am not sure. I know we took them to the
hospital and then we took Marina and the baby back to her home, to this
Elena Hall's home, and, of course, during--from that period while Elena
was in the hospital my wife had to take food or pick up this Marina and
buy her groceries or milk for the baby and look after her because she
could not speak English and had no transportation or any way to get
food. So, usually every day my wife would go over and either take her
to the grocery or take her food.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to ask some detailed questions about that but
before we get into that, so I don't forget, I want to go back. You said
Oswald had told you he had gotten your name from somebody in the Texas
Employment Commission----
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that your recollection or in fact, did Oswald tell you
that he had gotten your name from a man by the name of Peter Gregory at
the Fort Worth Public Library?
Mr. CLARK. Of course, I had no communication with Oswald at this time.
When he talked with my wife over the phone he indicated to her that he
had gotten my wife's name and Peter Gregory's name from the employment
commission. Now, I could be mistaken but apparently Mr. Gregory and my
wife's name were given to him as people that spoke Russian. Of course,
we know Mr. Gregory and then after, immediately after this came about,
why, my wife--we talked with the Gregorys. Which came first, I do not
know. I don't know who saw Oswald first. I believe Mr. Gregory saw them
before we did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know who it was in the Texas Employment Commission
that gave Oswald the name of Peter Gregory and your wife?
Mr. CLARK. No. I don't but I can understand fairly well, why. My aunt
had been employed by the Texas Employment Commission for 20, 25 years
up until her death a few years ago and then my sister still works
there. I know it wasn't my aunt because she was dead at the time but my
sister, and I have talked with her since, and it was not her and she
said it could have been any one of several. I was under the impression
she said my wife said that he had said someone by the name of Smith
at the employment commission but we don't know anybody by the name of
Smith.
Mr. LIEBELER. This is the Texas Employment Commission office in Fort
Worth, is that correct?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is there just one office of the Texas Employment
Commission in Fort Worth?
Mr. CLARK. There may be some branches but I don't think so. I think
this came out of the main office. Whether he called us or he called the
Gregorys first, I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. One of the things that the Commission is doing in an
attempt to learn as much as we can about Oswald is we are trying to
put together a schedule of income and outgo of funds throughout the
entire time he lived in this country after he returned from Russia.
I would like to have you if you could recollect as best you can the
exact amount of food, groceries or money or other things that your wife
provided to Marina Oswald while she lived at Elena Hall's house. Do you
have knowledge of those things?
Mr. CLARK. Actually, it was probably very small because Elena was in
the hospital, to my recollection not more than a week and during that
time, apparently there was--she bought her some groceries and I do
recall she said she bought her a carton of cigarettes. I doubt if it
would exceed $10 or $15.
Mr. LIEBELER. As far as you know the only thing that your wife did
provide to Marina were these things you described?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether she gave Marina any money?
Mr. CLARK. I am sure she did not give her any cash; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you go on with your story now, please?
Mr. CLARK. So, upon--when this Elena was in the hospital my wife would
see Marina about every day and I think that one evening during that
week, I took her and the baby and my wife to a restaurant for dinner
one night and then on the Sunday following this hospital treatment
and while Elena was still in the hospital, Marina asked my wife if we
would come over on Sunday afternoon and have some Russian dinner that
she would prepare for us and this Elena's ex-husband was coming into
town from Odessa and if we would come over there, 3 or 4 o'clock Sunday
afternoon, she would prepare this dinner, so we planned on going over
there and we did and when we got there Oswald was there. That was the
first time either my wife or myself had met Oswald; so, we were there,
oh, I would say approximately 2 hours. Some time after we arrived then
John Hall, as I recall, came in from the hospital. He had been over
seeing his wife and then we sat around and talked and we ate later on
and then we left rather early in the evening. Well, probably, I don't
recall the time but it must have been 7 or 8 o'clock.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Oswald ever stayed at Elena Hall's
home while Elena was in the hospital?
Mr. CLARK. I have no way of knowing. I did not think he did. It was
under my impression he was in Dallas at the time. In fact, we were
quite surprised to see him that Sunday afternoon because we had
formed the impression that Marina and he had separated. I don't know
definitely because I couldn't talk with Marina. She only spoke Russian
at the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your wife have the impression that there had been
marital difficulties between the Oswalds at that time?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us any specific reasons why your wife
thought that?
Mr. CLARK. None other than the conversations and the fact that Marina
seemed quite happy with him gone, more than the fact that she did not
seem to miss him and the fact that he wasn't there.
Mr. LIEBELER. During this time that you and John Hall and your wife and
Marina and Oswald were present at Elena Hall's home, did you have a
conversation with Oswald?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he say and what did you say?
Mr. CLARK. Of course, I was extremely interested in, well, life in
Russia and to find out just exactly why he left in the first place and
why he came back and he was in a very talkative mood and he talked at
great length about his stay there and he seemed to want to make a point
with everyone he met that he wanted them to know he was Lee Oswald
the defector. He seemed to be quite proud of that distinction. In his
opinion he thought that made him stand out and he would always say,
"You know who I am?" when he would meet someone for the first time, so
he was not trying to keep it a secret and in talking with him I asked
him why he went to Russia. He said that he was in the Marines and he
had read a lot of Karl Marx and he had studied considerably while he
was in the Marines and he decided that he would get out of the Marines
and he would go to Russia.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you that he studied Marxism when he was in
the Marines?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate to you that he had studied the Russian
language while in the Marines?
Mr. CLARK. He indicated he had because I asked him how he learned to
speak Russian and he said he studied while in the Marines and learned
a lot more when he went to Russia but apparently, he studied it quite
awhile before he left.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you whether he took any formal courses or
whether this was private effort?
Mr. CLARK. He did not indicate but it was my impression it was more or
less self-study and he stated that when he got his discharge from the
Marines that he went--I said, "How did you get a visa; how did you get
to Russia?" He said very simple; he just went down, made application to
get a visa and what he had to do was to put up so much money for some
kind of tour and at the same time when he put up this money for his
passage, why, he got his visa stamped and he said he went to Russia,
and the minute he got to Russia, he went to the American Embassy and
told them he wanted to renounce his citizenship and he turned in his
passport and he went to see about becoming a Soviet citizen and they
told him they couldn't do it but they gave him a work permit.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you why the Russians would not accept him as
a Russian citizen?
Mr. CLARK. No; he didn't say. He indicated he had to stay there a
length of time before he could become a citizen and he already secured
a work permit card and they assigned him an apartment and he said
because he was a marine he got a better apartment. He got an apartment
with a washstand and he was quite proud of the fact he got a little
better apartment than the normal working person there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you where he was sent to work?
Mr. CLARK. He did and I think it was in Minsk or some place; I don't
remember exactly. He told me the name of the town; it was wherever
Marina came from. I have forgotten which one it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you any more details about his relations with
the American Embassy and the Soviet authorities when he first came to
the Soviet Union?
Mr. CLARK. Nothing except he turned in his passport and tried to become
a Soviet citizen and they refused to make him a citizen and they gave
him this work permit and he was particularly unhappy about the fact
they didn't make a fuss about him and put him to work as a common sheet
metal worker.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you that?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; he told me.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he say?
Mr. CLARK. I asked him what it was like working there and he said
the closest comparison he could give would be like the Marine Corps.
He said if you got up so high in a job it was like being promoted to
corporal, sergeant and so forth. He said the higher you went in their
jobs, the more privileges you got and he said in his job he felt if
he stayed there 5 years he might get up maybe one rung in the ladder
and he didn't think it was real communism is the way he put it and
that he thought he was completely disgruntled about it. He said you
could get a job any place and they always had about five people to do
each job; said he didn't work hard but you couldn't progress unless
you stayed in one place and made friends with the boss and he said he
didn't like that; and he said if he wanted to go to a bigger city--I
said why didn't you go to another factory if you did not like that.
He said he could but then he couldn't get an apartment or place to
live and they controlled the workers by limiting the places you could
live and they assigned you an apartment and it might take 5 years
to get another one and he was quite bitter about the fact that the
managers had better houses and an automobile and the fact that they
could go to, well, to the coast or to the beach in the summer on their
vacations while he could not. I said, "Well, you were saying everyone
got a month's vacation." He said, "That's true, but you had to pay your
transportation," and it would take a year's salary to go from his place
of employment down to the Black Sea.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you that?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you he had done any traveling while in the
Soviet Union?
Mr. CLARK. He said he was limited because he did not have the money.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you how much money he was paid at his job?
Mr. CLARK. As I recall, between 80 and 90 rubles and he was justifying
that on this basis, he said actually it wasn't so bad except you had
your housing taken care of and your medical expenses. That's the main
things he seemed to count most important but he said that clothing,
shoes was very expensive and traveling was extremely expensive.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you that he received any income from any
source other than his job?
Mr. CLARK. He said that's all he had and he had written to his mother
to get money to come back to the States.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he mention receiving money from the Red Cross?
Mr. CLARK. No; he did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever mention to you that he had gone from Minsk to
Moscow to talk to the officials at the American Embassy about returning
to the United States?
Mr. CLARK. No; he did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever tell you that Marina went from Minsk to
Kharkof for a 2- or 3-week vacation after they were married?
Mr. CLARK. No; he did not. He said that after they were married that
she moved in this apartment with him and said they used to go out and
walk around and do some hunting of some kind; I don't know. I didn't
pay much attention to him. He said they went out for amusements for
walks. I asked what he did and he said there wasn't too much to do, go
to dances once in awhile. He indicated to me that Marina had to work
up until a very short time before the birth of the child and that she
was supposed to go back to work within a month after the birth of the
child but by putting in his application to return to the United States
somehow or other she delayed in reporting back to work and finally his
permit and all to return had arrived and so that they left. She never
returned to work after the birth of the child.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember specifically that he mentioned the high
cost of transportation?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; the reason I remember that is I had read an article
recently about all of the resort buildings and had seen some pictures
in Life or Time magazine on the Black Sea, this resort area, and asked
him if he had been down there as I heard it was similar to the Riviera
in France. He said no, he wanted to go there. I said, "Why didn't you
go there during your vacation if you had a month?" He said he couldn't
afford it. It would take nearly a year's salary for him to pay for the
transportation. I said, "Isn't housing and food provided?" He said,
"Oh, yes; if I could have gotten there I could have a free house but
only people high up or special favors are given permission to go down
there." He was quite unhappy about it.
Mr. LIEBELER. He mentioned to you that his apartment had a private bath
while most of the other apartments had to share the bath?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; I was asking him what the apartments were like. He said
most of the apartment houses would have, for example, on one floor
have two wings; on the right wing would be a group of six apartments,
would be just one big room leading off the hall and at the end of the
hall would be the bath and kitchen and these six apartments would share
that one bath and one kitchen. And the other side of the wing would be
a duplication and he said the only difference between his and those
apartments was his had a wash basin and private stove in there, small
apartment stove so he could cook if he wanted to and he did not have to
use the communal kitchen.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you said that Marina did not go back to work after
the baby was born?
Mr. CLARK. That's what he indicated to me.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate that that was an extraordinary situation?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; he said it was very unusual because all women were
allowed so much leave; I think he said 6 weeks before the birth of a
child and 4 weeks or something after the birth of the child in which
they were not required to work but other than that they worked the
whole time.
Mr. LIEBELER. What happened to the child when they went back to work?
Mr. CLARK. He said they take it to special places that elderly
women--they receive their pay for taking care of the children; kind of
a babysitting service or nursery and you would drop the children off at
the nursery and at the end of the day, the mothers pick them up.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he express any opinion as to this procedure? Did he
think this was a good thing or bad thing?
Mr. CLARK. Well, he didn't seem quite--he just took it as a matter of
course. He thought that was all right. He didn't have much comment to
make on that.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am looking at a report of an interview which you gave
on about November 29, 1963, to two FBI agents, Mr. Haley and Mr.
Madland. Do you remember that?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. This report indicates that you told them at that time
that 3 months after Oswald's child was born that his wife did go back
to work and that the government did take the child and place it in a
government nursery.
Mr. CLARK. No; I think maybe Earl must have misunderstood because when
the baby came over here it was my understanding she was less than 5
months old. I am not sure but the baby was very young and I think Earl
might have misunderstood when I said after the mothers returned to work
they were placed in a nursery.
Mr. LIEBELER. Seems like he might have confused the general proposition
with the particular case of the Oswalds.
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did Oswald tell you the circumstances under which he
met and subsequently married his wife, Marina?
Mr. CLARK. Well, I have heard from him and then, of course, I think she
told my wife who gave me her version of it that he stated while he was
working as a sheet metal worker in this factory, why, there wasn't too
much social activity and he with some of his fellow workers went one
evening or was in the habit of going to a dance that they had in fact
for everyone and he would go and this one night he went there and he
met Marina and so he danced with her quite a bit and that they, after a
short time, they got married.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate he had had any difficulty in securing
permission to marry her?
Mr. CLARK. He didn't indicate any trouble at all getting permission
to marry her and then what she told my wife was that she was quite a
flirt. In other words, she said that she made a practice of going late
to the dance so she would be fresh and then all the boys would rush
to her because she would have fresh make-up and the others would be
hot and tired. So, she went late this night, later in the evening, and
arrived very fresh and she met Oswald and she thought it was unusual
to be dancing and having a boyfriend that was an American, so she
started going with him; so my wife asked her, she said "What did your
friends think about you going with an American and marrying an American
and coming to the United States?" Marina says "Well, they told me it
couldn't be any worse."
Mr. LIEBELER. By that she meant the United States couldn't be any worse
than the Soviet Union?
Mr. CLARK. Couldn't be worse, so she gave the impression she was quite
happy to get out of there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your wife have the feeling that was one of the
reasons why she married Oswald?
Mr. CLARK. My wife had the impression she thought it was something new
and strange and it was something to look forward to so she was--seemed
to be as much interested in leaving Russia as staying there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, did Oswald tell you what prompted him to leave the
Soviet Union and return to the United States?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; he told me that he had finally made up his mind
that he would never get any place in the Soviet Union and that he
was disappointed because it was not like Karl Marx or was not true
Communism, in his words, and that he thought it was just as bad as a
democracy and he said he wanted to leave there because he just felt
there was no hope for him there and he would never be able to get ahead
or make his mark so he decided the best bet for both he and Marina was
to leave so he made application to leave.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember him specifically using the words "make
his mark" or is that just an expression of yours?
Mr. CLARK. That is my expression but my general impression was he
wanted to become famous or infamous; that seemed to be his whole life
ambition was to become somebody and he just seemed to have the idea
that he was made for something else than what he was doing or what
particular circumstances he was in.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned previously that he did not try to hide the
fact that he was a defector and had gone to Russia and you gave the
impression to me in your testimony that he called attention to this
fact and you said, if I recall it, he would say "Well, you know who I
am" when you met him. Would you think this would be an example of what
you just spoke of?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; he didn't want to be among the common people; he wanted
to stand out. He wanted everybody to know he was the defector.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he called attention to that fact to make himself
stand out even though it might not have been a wise thing to call to
peoples' attention?
Mr. CLARK. Yes; I thought it was very stupid of him but he seemed to
think it made him somebody.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you think of any other examples of behavior on
Oswald's part?
Mr. CLARK. Well, he stated while he was in Russia he didn't--he was
completely disgruntled by the fact they only made him a common sheet
metal worker; that he thought since he was a defector and former Marine
Corpsman that he would be given special attention and the fact that
he was quite proud of the fact that he did rate a better apartment
than the average sheet metal worker. He was quite proud of the few
accomplishments he had made and he wanted to impress upon me that he
read very much and how much he had read.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he tell you about that?
Mr. CLARK. Oh, he said he read all the time and that he read everything
he could about communism, about Karl Marx and that he felt that it was
much better than participating in sports. I tried to see if he was
interested in sports and he wasn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you he was a member of any Communist or
Marxist organizations?
Mr. CLARK. No; he didn't. We didn't get into any phase of
organizations. He was more or less discussing his particular life in
Russia and what it was like and I was interested in how he got back and
why he decided to come back.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate that he had any difficulty in obtaining
permission to return to the United States?
Mr. CLARK. Well, I was quite surprised as to the ease in which he and
Marina and the baby had gotten permission to come back and I asked
him "How did you work that?" He said "Well, we just went down and I
made application and she was my wife and the child and told them I
wanted to go back to the United States. When I secured the passage" he
said, "they okayed it." Said "We left." He didn't seem to think it was
unusual. He said that he just happened to ask at the right place is
what he indicated to me; said "Maybe these other people hadn't hit at
the right time or hadn't approached the right person."
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate the U.S. Government had given him or
Marina any difficulty about them returning?
Mr. CLARK. None whatsoever; the reason they hadn't because he had not
renounced his citizenship. I said "I thought you said you turned in
your passport and wanted to become a Soviet citizen?" He said "I did
turn in my passport but they didn't make me a Soviet citizen so I did
not renounce my citizenship. So when I made application to come back",
he said "They couldn't keep me out."
Mr. LIEBELER. He ascribed this failure for this part to the renouncing
of his American citizenship to the refusal of the Russians to make him
a citizen?
Mr. CLARK. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did not mention the U.S. Embassy or Moscow had refused
to permit him to return?
Mr. CLARK. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he indicate any hostility toward the State Department
or Embassy or Moscow?
Mr. CLARK. He did not seem hostile with anyone in particular. He
just thought everyone was out of step but him. He was rather an
arrogant-talking person.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did not mention specifically any government official,
President Kennedy, Governor Connally?
Mr. CLARK. No one.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you about his service in the Marine Corps?
Mr. CLARK. Nothing except he was very unhappy while in the Marine
Corps. He didn't like any part of it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did that come up in connection with his comparison of
life in the Soviet Union with life in the Marine Corps?
Mr. CLARK. I would ask him "How would you classify life in the Soviet
Union; you say everyone has a job and everyone gets a salary whether
they work or not?" He said just that they have to work. There may be
five people for each job and if you apply at a factory they got to put
you on; and I said "What prevents everyone from migrating from one
place to another if they have to take you if you make application?" He
said "It's a fact they control the movement of employees by the lack of
places to live and assignment of apartments."
Mr. LIEBELER. He did not mention to you he received an undesirable
discharge from the Marine Corps?
Mr. CLARK. No; he did not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know about it at that time?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who told you that?
Mr. CLARK. I think it was in the paper. I felt pretty sure anyone
that would be a defector they would probably give him a dishonorable
discharge.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did any of the other members or any of the members of the
so-called Russian Community in the Dallas-Fort Worth area ever raise
with you the question of whether they should associate with Oswald;
whether he was a safe person for them to associate with him or have
anything to do with him?
Mr. CLARK. I think everyone was discussing that as to whether or not
they should especially when he first came back and all of them asked
me and I said "In my opinion he is a defector and you know what he
is"; I said "You should not hold that against this girl Marina. She's
having a hard time. He's beating her up, everything is strange to her,
she can't speak the language, I don't think you should ostracize her
because of Oswald." Most of them had absolutely no use for Oswald and
they discussed all the time they hated to let this girl get beat up and
kicked around by this Oswald without at least trying to look after her.
I told them I didn't see anything wrong in looking after this girl. I
said "As far as Oswald coming back here you can be assured or bet that
when he returned to the United States the FBI has got him tagged and is
watching his movements or I would be very much surprised."