Mr. ELY. Do you remember whether----

Mr. DONOVAN. Are you talking about then, or now?

Mr. ELY. I am talking about then, right.

Do you recall whether he made any trips, when he had time off?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; I think he took a couple of trips down to Tijuana,

but I don't think those were for reasons of studying international

economics, although they might well have been.

Mr. ELY. Did he ever tell you what he did in Tijuana?

Mr. DONOVAN. Never, and I never inquired.

Mr. ELY. Do you know whether he took any trips to Los Angeles?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't know it, but I am sure he did, because it was

common for all those boys to go in and out of Los Angeles or Hollywood,

or up to Disneyland--whether they wanted to go up for a beer or a date

or something.

Mr. ELY. Did you notice that he either took more trips than the average

marine, or that he took fewer trips?

Mr. DONOVAN. I did not recognize his itinerary as being anything out of

the ordinary in that respect.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember his receiving any visitors while he was at

Santa Ana?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not recall his receiving any visitors.

Mr. ELY. Does the name Lieutenant Cupenak mean anything to you?

Mr. DONOVAN. Means absolutely nothing to me.

Mr. ELY. Cupenak does not even sound like any name that means anything

to you?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, I knew a Lieutenant John Cuaka. C-u-a-k-a. That

spelling is strictly phonetic.

Mr. ELY. Was he at Santa Ana at that time?

Mr. DONOVAN. I do not believe he was. I knew him in the Philippines and

in Japan. He was a radar maintenance officer that generally served with

a GCA, standing for Ground Control Approach unit. But Cupenak doesn't

ring a bell at all.

Mr. ELY. Finally, Mr. Donovan, I would like to get your opinion on

which of the men who were at Santa Ana at the time that both you and

Oswald were there would be most helpful to us in reconstructing the

personality of Oswald. I will mention the names that I have to you, and

see whether you think----

Mr. DONOVAN. You mean which in the plural or singular? You want me to

say which would be most----

Mr. ELY. I will read the names to you, and you can comment on them

individually.

Do you remember a man named Thornley?

Mr. DONOVAN. I don't recall the name at all.

Mr. ELY. All right.

How about a man named Lewis?

Mr. DONOVAN. Don't recall the name at all.

Mr. ELY. Botelho?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, Botelho was a man in our squadron. I cannot recall

his face. But I do recall the man being in our squadron. And he went by

the nickname, normally enough, of Bo.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember whether or not he knew Oswald well?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, I do not.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Call?

Mr. DONOVAN. I certainly do. He is from Allentown, Pa. I tried to look

him up after my discharge. I was passing through his town. He was a

corporal, later sergeant, I believe, buck sergeant.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether he knew Oswald?

Mr. DONOVAN. He must have. Call was another boy I played chess with.

Mr. ELY. Would you characterize Call as an intellectual?

Mr. DONOVAN. I would characterize Call as being modestly

intelligent--modestly not referring to his degree of intelligence, but

in reference to his character concerning his intelligence.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Delgado?

Mr. DONOVAN. I certainly do--quite well. Delgado was on my crew. He

was one of the boys that used to speak with the Mexican ham operators

to ask them to leave the air when we were talking to aircraft. And

Delgado had a command of Mexican more than Spanish. Delgado was a very

dependable boy.

Mr. ELY. Do you think he would be able to help us concerning Oswald?

Mr. DONOVAN. He could tell you much more about Oswald's personal life

than I can, because he lived in the same barracks area with him;

Delgado played on the football team. He many times served on the same

crew with Oswald.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Murray?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, Murray was a clerk. He had a radar specialization

number, but we used him as a clerk. And, as I recall, he wanted to go

back to medical school. I think he was from the South somewhere, I

believe. Very efficient, very intelligent, very competent, capable man.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether he knew Oswald well, or would it be fair

to say that all the men on the crew would know him?

Mr. DONOVAN. Well, Murray I don't think you would say was on the crew

so much. Murray, because of his administrative ability, worked more in

the office. Murray was married. And that puts him in a little different

light, too. I think he was very happily married. At the end of the day

he went home--whereas Oswald stayed in the barracks area.

Mr. ELY. Do you remember a man named Powers?

Mr. DONOVAN. The name rings a bell, but I don't really remember him.

Mr. ELY. Osborne?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether Osborne was an acquaintance of Oswald's?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes. Osborne I knew quite well. He played football with

us for some time. He must have known him. I don't know if he actually

lived in the same barracks. He knew him. I don't know how well he knew

him.

Mr. ELY. Now, you have mentioned Captain Trail to us, and also Sergeant

Brown.

Mr. DONOVAN. Captain Trail was Lieutenant Trail when I knew him. I

think he is now Captain Trail.

Mr. ELY. Yes. Can you think of any other names that neither you nor I

have already mentioned?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; another fellow that I am sure knew him was a fellow

named Elmer Ellsworth Randolph. And he is now a salesman for Brock

Candy Co., somewhere in the Chicago area.

Another fellow that probably knows him is now on active duty--Fred

Walker. He is a captain. I believe Walker knew him.

Captain Block, Robert Block, was the operations officer at that time. I

don't know if he would remember Oswald or not.

Mr. ELY. Do you recall whether Oswald ever went to night clubs? Bars?

Mr. DONOVAN. I think he used to go down to the enlisted men's club to

drink beer. I recall going down there one night to talk to some boys on

a disturbance and I vaguely remember him being there, but I would not

swear to that.

Mr. ELY. Would you have any personal knowledge of whether he attended

offpost bars or night clubs?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, I would not.

Mr. ELY. Did he drink more than the average marine, the same amount,

less?

Mr. DONOVAN. I believed not. However, after the assassination of

President Kennedy, I talked to Lieutenant Trail on the phone and Trail

told me that he had been mixed up in some drinking bouts in Japan.

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