Mr. JENNER. Marina said that?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; I said, "Marina, I'm sorry you don't live near me;
we could go to church together," and I said to her, "I wish you would
become a Catholic."
Mr. JENNER. Marina could converse to some extent in English, could she
not? She could communicate with you to some extent, couldn't she?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; I could make her understand most things, you know,
about what I was talking about. Now, another thing, Lee didn't want the
baby to be baptized.
Mr. JENNER. Who didn't?
Mrs. MURRET. Lee. He told me that the baby was baptized, but in the
orthodox religion, and he wanted the baby to be baptized in the
Lutheran religion. Marina wanted the baby to be baptized in the
Orthodox Church, and she went ahead and did it, and I think that's
something he probably resented--not the baptism itself but the church.
Mr. JENNER. Had this occurred before they came to New Orleans? Had the
baby been baptized before that?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; I think it was in Dallas or Fort Worth. I don't know
which.
Mr. JENNER. Did any other incident arise that you can think of between
Marina and Lee that might help the Commission in its investigation?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, his attitude was pretty bad about certain things,
like the time he asked her to pass him the catsup. He just said, "Give
me that" and she said, "Don't ask it in that manner," and he said,
"Well, I'm the Commander around here," but of course I don't think he
really meant that the way it sounded.
Mr. JENNER. You think that was just a passing remark, just a figure of
speech?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; with no meaning. In fact, I didn't think anything
about it.
Mr. JENNER. Do you think that Lee was arrogant?
Mrs. MURRET. No; I didn't think that. I think with a lot of people, it
depends on whether they like you or they don't like you, I mean, in
the way they act toward you, and with Lee, most people would dislike
him because of the fact that he was not a mixer and he did seem to be
arrogant, I guess you would call it, but he wasn't. I think it all
depends on whether you like a person like that. Me, I don't like a man
who yap, yap, yaps all the time. Lee was a person who didn't feel that
he ought to say anything unless it was important. Some people thought
he had an arrogance about him, I suppose, from the way he carried
himself, the way he walked, but he just walked very straight all the
time. That was his natural walk. Some people passed remarks about Lee's
mouth, the way it looked, but that's the way his mouth was, and he
couldn't help that, and after you knew him for a while, you didn't pay
any attention to that.
Mr. JENNER. What was there about his mouth that you noticed
particularly?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, it sort of set back a little bit--a little different
from most people, but it really wasn't that bad. It just looked like
he was holding his mouth that way, but he really wasn't. That just the
way it was, but a lot of people didn't like him for it. Like that time
he ran into this place on Magazine and asked the man there to let him
look at television, and the man right away refused to let him, refused
to let him turn on the television. He said who did he think he was,
and things like that, and he thought Lee was a little smart aleck or
something, I guess, but I took it the other way, that here's a kid
that doesn't have a television set in his house, and he doesn't have
anything to do, and he's alone, and he has come to me thinking I will
be nice enough to turn on the television for him, and so I would do it.
But I guess all people don't think alike about things like that. A lot
of people take that sort of thing the wrong way, I think.
Mr. JENNER. Now, Mrs. Murret, there are some records from Beauregard
School indicating--either Beauregard or Easton, showing that his
address was 809 French Street. Now, that was your old address, before
they changed the numbering on your street, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; that's right.
Mr. JENNER. I wonder if you would tell me how that came about, Mrs.
Murret?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, it came about--they only had one house in the 700
block, from Canal Boulevard----
Mr. JENNER. No; I don't mean that. I mean, how did it come about that
Lee gave your home address as his address?
Mrs. MURRET. Oh, well, they changed all the numbers in that block. We
had been in the 800 block, but they changed it to the 700 block.
Mr. JENNER. I understand that, Mrs. Murret, but tell me, if you will,
how it came about that Lee registered at either Beauregard School or
Warren Easton as living at your address, at 809 French Street, which
was your address?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, that was brought about when he first came back from
New York with his mother, and they stayed at my house for 2 weeks, and
that was when they registered him at Beauregard, because she didn't
have a place yet, and she gave them my address. In fact, if she hadn't
given them my address and given some other address in another district,
he would have had to go to another school, and she wanted him to go to
Beauregard School. It had a good reputation as a good school, and she
said she would like to have him enrolled there.
Mr. JENNER. Tell me, how did Lee act when he came in from New York
with his mother and lived at your home for those 2 weeks? What was his
conduct generally, as you recall it?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, he didn't act any different than any other child,
I don't think. He was in school all day long, and he came home in the
afternoon, and just sort of hung around inside, and he would eat supper
and go to bed, and the same thing the next day. He didn't talk much. He
never really did talk unless you said something to him.
Mr. JENNER. The same old pattern, would you say?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; but there are a lot of people that don't like to
talk. It's just that some people are inclined to talk a lot, and others
just aren't. You run across that every day.
Mr. JENNER. I agree with you on that. Do you recall an occasion or
a situation in which Lee was a member of, or at least attended some
activity of the Civil Air Patrol?
Mrs. MURRET. I don't know anything about that other than my sister
Marguerite told me that he was a friend of this boy at Beauregard, and
that through him he had joined the Civil Air Patrol, and he had to have
a uniform and so forth, but that's about all I know about it. They were
living on Exchange Alley, or Exchange--whatever that is, at the time.
Mr. JENNER. Exchange Place?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; I think that's it, Exchange Place.
Mr. JENNER. Do you remember your son John giving Lee a white shirt and
tie on one occasion?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; Lee was getting ready to go on this job, and John was
in the back getting dressed to go to work, I think, and he didn't think
Lee looked presentable. John is such a big boy, and he said it in such
a nice way--he can do it, you know, but he asked Lee, he said, "Lee,
here's a shirt; take it; it doesn't fit me. You put it on, and here's a
nice tie to go with it." He said "Come on, kid, you want to look good
when you go for that job, you know," and so he gave the white shirt and
the tie to Lee to go after the job, and Lee took them, and when his
picture was taken for that "Fair Play for Cuba" business, he had that
same shirt and tie on.
Mr. JENNER. He had the same shirt and tie on that your son John had
given him when he had his picture taken on that occasion?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; the same white shirt and the tie. They belonged to
John, and he had given them to Lee to go after a job. Now, John felt
sorry for Lee in a way, and he was trying to help him. John was good
that way around anybody who he felt sorry for, like one time he said,
"Come on, Lee, let's go for a ride, and I'll let you drive the car,"
and I think he sat next to Lee and let Lee steer the car, or something,
but I don't know anything about that. I don't think Lee ever did know
how to drive a car. Maybe he did, but as far as I know, he didn't know
how to drive.
Mr. JENNER. I believe you said during the course of this discussion
that you thought Lee was left handed. What led you to say that?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, as a child, when he was a small child, I knew he ate
with his left hand, and I always thought that he did things with his
left hand. Now, whether he used both hands or not, I don't know, but he
did use his left hand as a child. I remember that.
Mr. JENNER. In fact, children are often ambidextrous, aren't they?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. They eat with either hand, don't they?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; they do. I have known of cases where children have
started out eating with their left hands, and they switch over as they
grow older to their right hands, but then there are some children who
never use their right hand, I don't think.
Mr. JENNER. This was an impression you had of him as a very small boy
though, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever see Lee write left handed?
Mrs. MURRET. When?
Mr. JENNER. After he reached, say, high school age?
Mrs. MURRET. No; I didn't.
Mr. JENNER. You never noticed it one way or the other?
Mrs. MURRET. No; I didn't.
Mr. JENNER. When he was living with you during those 2 weeks, when they
came back from New York, did you ever see him use his left hand?
Mrs. MURRET. I never noticed really.
Mr. JENNER. Your boys are all right handed, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Oh, yes.
Mr. JENNER. I remember you told me earlier today that Lee wanted to go
out and play ball, and perhaps get on some team, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And you gave him, you said, a glove that belonged to one of
your boys, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Well, wasn't that glove for a right-handed player, if it
belonged to one of your boys, and they were all right handed?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; that's right.
Mr. JENNER. It was one of your boy's gloves, wasn't it?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Did you listen to the debate over the radio between Lee and
the Cuban boy?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, he called.
Mr. JENNER. Who, Lee?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes; Lee called and said he was going to talk on the
radio, so--we were getting supper ready, because it was supposed to
come on about then, but we forgot about it until after it started, but
then we turned it on and did hear some of it.
Mr. JENNER. You heard some of it?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any discussion at any time about Lee's political
views?
Mrs. MURRET. Not in my home.
Mr. JENNER. And not with you?
Mrs. MURRET. No; and I don't think with any other member of my family.
Mrs. JENNER. Did you ever observe Lee, as far as his manual dexterity
was concerned, his coordination?
Mrs. MURRET. No; I never paid too much attention to that. I know he
wasn't prepared to do anything in life.
Mr. JENNER. Was your son John attempting to teach him to drive an
automobile? Did your son talk to you about that?
Mrs. MURRET. No; he didn't say anything about that. I don't know what
John had in mind. Anyway, they went riding, but they weren't gone too
long, and then they came back.
Mr. JENNER. Would it have been as long as a couple of hours?
Mrs. MURRET. No; not a couple of hours; just a spin around.
Mr. JENNER. Did John report that Lee could or could not drive? Did he
say anything either way as to that?
Mrs. MURRET. You mean on that day?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mrs. MURRET. Well, we always felt that Lee didn't know how to drive.
Mr. JENNER. As far as you know, he couldn't drive?
Mrs. MURRET. No.
Mr. JENNER. Let's see if I have your family right now, if you will bear
with me. You have a daughter, Mrs. Emile, and her given name is Joyce,
and her husband's name is O'Brien, and they live at 1615 Fairway,
Beaumont, Tex., is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Right.
Mr. JENNER. You have a son, Dr. Charles W. Murret, a dentist, who has
an office at 1207 West Bernard, Chalmette, La.; you have a son Gene,
and that's spelled E-u-g-e-n-e, who is studying for the priesthood, and
who lives at 3959 Loyola Avenue, Mobile, Ala., is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Right.
Mr. JENNER. Now, he has a designation of S.J. What is that?
Mrs. MURRET. Society of Jesus.
Mr. JENNER. And he's the boy who attended law school, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And a fine student?
Mrs. MURRET. He certainly was.
Mr. JENNER. And he is unmarried?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, you can't be married and be a Jesuit.
Mr. JENNER. And your son John lives at 6622 Louis XIV, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Right.
Mr. JENNER. In New Orleans?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And then your daughter Marilyn, she lives with you, is that
right?
Mrs. MURRET. Right.
Mr. JENNER. She's unmarried?
Mrs. MURRET. Unmarried. She says you have to want to get married to get
married.
Mr. JENNER. She doesn't want to get married?
Mrs. MURRET. That's right. She says that's not for her. Now, Charles
didn't see Lee at all.
Mr. JENNER. Charles is your dentist son?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. But your daughter Marilyn did, and John did, and you have
told us about Gene and your daughter Joyce--they did, is that right?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And of course your husband?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Were you ever in their apartment on Magazine Street, Mrs.
Murret?
Mrs. MURRET. Just that morning when we went there.
Mr. JENNER. That's the morning that they arrived, Mrs. Paine and
Marina--arrived from Irving, Tex.?
Mrs. MURRET. Right. We took them home that night, and I was there then.
Mr. JENNER. Did Lee ever speak of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy or
Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy?
Mrs. MURRET. He said one time that he thought Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy
was a very fine person, and that he admired her for going around with
her husband, and so forth, but he never spoke about that again, or
never said anything about it. In fact, I think he said he liked him.
Mr. JENNER. Liked President Kennedy?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What about Lee Oswald's habits? Was he a drinking man, for
example?
Mrs. MURRET. I never knew of Lee to drink or smoke. In fact, when I
read about, you know, after the assassination, about finding cigarettes
there in that room, I was surprised, because I have never known of
Lee to smoke. Now, Marina said he didn't want her to smoke. She said
she had learned to smoke in Russia when other Americans had given
her cigarettes, but that Lee didn't want her to smoke at all. We see
nothing wrong in smoking, except that Lee just didn't want her to
smoke. I see now where Dr. Ochsner doesn't want anybody to smoke. My
boys don't smoke.
Mr. JENNER. As far as you know, did Lee ever live in a rooming house
around here?
Mrs. MURRET. No.
Mr. JENNER. Did he have any communistic literature or Russian
literature that you know of?
Mrs. MURRET. I didn't see any. All he showed me was pictures of Marina
and the baby when he first came, and some of Marina's family, but
that's about all.
Mr. JENNER. Did you ever hear Lee discuss anybody by name, like Jack
Ruby, or Rubenstein?
Mrs. MURRET. No; I never did.
Mr. JENNER. No one else ever discussed him in your presence?
Mrs. MURRET. No. Lee only spoke when he was spoken to.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Murret, is there anything that occurs to you at the
end of this long day, and I know you are tired, that I haven't brought
out, either because I don't know about it or haven't thought of it,
anything that you think might be of some assistance to the Commission
in its work of investigating all the facts and circumstances involving
the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mrs. MURRET. No; I wish I could think of something else, but I don't
think I can. I can only say this. Lee appeared to be very kind to
Marina, and I thought it was very nice of him to come up to the
hospital to see me; and about my sister Marguerite, I could only tell
you what she has already told in her life story, I guess, but I will
say that I have never found her to tell an untruth. She's a woman with
a lot of character and good morals, and I'm sure that what she was
doing for her boys, she thought was the best at the time. Now, whether
it was or not is something else, I guess.
Mr. JENNER. What was your impression of the morality of Lee Oswald
during his lifetime?
Mrs. MURRET. His morality, as far as I know, was very good. That's what
baffles me, being the type of boy he was, I just couldn't see how he
could do anything like that, but it's hard to judge a person that way.
Mr. JENNER. During the years that you knew him, did he ever have fits
of temper, that you thought were unusual?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, he visited with me often, and he did a lot of things
that I wondered about at the time, but there were times when I think
he was just like any other person. It was just that he was always so
quiet, and he was hard to get close to. He just wouldn't talk unless
you would talk to him first, and, like I say, he was kind to Marina.
Of course now, I don't know what went on in their home, but he always
treated her like a gentleman at our house.
Mr. JENNER. But you had no impression of him as being a violent person?
Mrs. MURRET. No; not at all.
Mr. JENNER. All right, Mrs. Murret. I very much appreciate your help.
This has been a long and a hard day, and I know that you are tired.
There is just one other thing now, Mrs. Murret. You have the privilege
of reading your deposition and signing it, if you wish, but you also
may waive that, in which case the reporter will go ahead and transcribe
the deposition, and it will be sent on to Washington. If you elect to
read the deposition, then we would want to know that now, so that the
U.S. attorney can call you and tell you when it is ready to be read and
signed by you. Do you have any preference, one way or the other?
Mrs. MURRET. Well, I don't think so. I will just waive it.
Mr. JENNER. You want to waive the reading and signing of the deposition
then?
Mrs. MURRET. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right; thank you, Mrs. Murret.